VGLeaks rumor: Durango CPU Overview
- Thread starter DieH@rd
- Start date
Yeah. Breaching Microsoft's servers is a serious offense.
Miles Quaritch
Member
My bad then, caught me pre-coffee
Happens to the best of us. I quite like the idea of FBI teams sitting round reading the various posts about how the next xbox will be underpowered and similar posts as well as the various rhetoric laden posts.
soul creator
Member
dual CPU/GPU? The extra set must be the Xbox 360's CPU/GPU hybrid that they'll include on the motherboard for full BC...amirite?
intheinbetween
Member
dual CPU/GPU? The extra set must be the Xbox 360's CPU/GPU hybrid that they'll include on the motherboard for full BC...amirite?
you mean the current 360's Valhalla SoC which merges cpu+gpu? that doesn't sound crazy at all
HollovVpo1nt
Banned
I'm not that familiar with tech, but I know that 360's SoC and Jaguar are too different to be included on a single mono. How would that even work?
LOl!, don't know why I laughed so hard at this.
Well it could be nice if the 360 Soc could be used for physics and other effects while then Durango GPU focuses on graphics alone
Hiro_Kunimi_80
Member
i believe would be more useful an increase of both clock ( like 2 ghz for cpu and 1 ghz for gpu ) than throwing some additional transistor from a different architecture
BC could be handled by software like previous box. and it would be nice just for the early adopters
higher clock would be useful for the entire generation to come
BC could be handled by software like previous box. and it would be nice just for the early adopters
higher clock would be useful for the entire generation to come
current 360 SoC is Vejle. Valhalla is the whole 360 slim
Even at 32nm it would be a pretty sizable chipset, so I think it's rather crazy.
You're right with the idea that upping the working frequency a bit is the easiest and most efficient way to get more raw power at this point but we have to consider that frequency in APUs is particularly critical because everything is integrated in a single chip.
The additional heat produced in a part of the chip has consequences even on the parts which are not overclocked. Overclocking in a APU leads to lower yields hence higher costs and less available parts, higher hardware failures and the need of a more advanced cooling system pretty quickly as you go up with the frequency.
Jaguar is really low power and should be able to be clocked higher, but the GPU is pretty much unlikely, there's a reason why Sony for example has their GPU and memory frequencies already set in stone while they left the door open for the CPU.
About the troll suggesting dual APUs.....LOL it's total non sense, we're at deadmeat level there. It's unfortunate that there are people willing to believe it so those people get more attention.
IHaveCandy
Banned
I would think MS would learn from PS3 that BC isn't worth the cost. When Sony took out BC and dropped the price to $400, most people were just happy to get a cheaper PS3 and didn't care BC was gone. I think the 720 would have a greater advantage by keeping the price lower than touting BC.
BrainZEROX
Member
Edit> never mind, it's a Durango topic, I don't want to derail it in a PS4 BC thread.
Out of curiosity, is the 360 not based on X86 architecture? Also, given the GPU in 360 was of MS/AMD design with unified shaders (which is now a standard) would it not be easier to emulate BC on the primary hardware without resorting some secondary and dedicated hardware?
360 is based on PowerPC, which is predominately why BC is up in the air for Durango.
Ah, I forgot. Thanks.
IHaveCandy
Banned
Why couldn't BC be done with a 360 CPU/GPU chip? Things like HDD, RAM and other minor components could likely be used from the 720 hardware. The PS3 had PS2 BC by having a PS2 CPU/GPU chip.
Cost is the primary obstacle. Space is another concern.
Hiro_Kunimi_80
Member
What if Microsoft isn't going for " One Single chip" , from day one ?
They will shrink both die as they did with X360, eventually cpu and gpu will become a SOC like ps4, but not from the start. but if they would have 3 separate die ( cpu+gpu+esram) they could manage to high a bit the frequencies
I've heard from a few rumors that Durango is an SoC. It would have been an APU like PS4 if they didn't have to embed the eSRAM.
Yeah, X86 pretty much guarantees full BC from now on. The pictairn based GPUs should also be very easy to emulate on later GPUs.
Isn't XB3's GPU a derivative of Cape Verde architecture with 2 additional CUs (looking at the BW figure)?
Oh, is it? Hadn't heard that, I thought both were pictairn. The point still stands though.
Do you have a link for that? I'm just curious.
Afaik processor architecture usually isn't the problem with BC... or emulation for that matter...
The problem is GPU's and specific hardware, like from the current 720 specs: the specific 'special sauce' on the GPU or the EDRAM on 360 or the ESRAM on 720...
No, but looking at the BW figures it makes more sense that would be a upgraded cape verde (70GB/s). Also, the TF figure closely replicates it (7770). I can be wrong though.
Ah, that makes sense. I forgot that the 7770 wasn't pictairn, which is what I based my post on.
Not to derail the thread, but there really isn't any 'special sauce'.
Can Crusher
Banned
This sounds like complete pie in the sky.
Not only that but it's a bad idea to cram two APUs in one box.
Maybe, but I don't think last gen is necessarily a valid example for this gen. SD to HD was a huge jump visually and a huge selling point for this gen. Going back to SD on an HD console is pretty jarring. This gen is already HD and I don't think the jump is as extreme that people would have such an easy time completely dropping this gen's games. Also, the PS3 did not have an enormous catalog of content available digitally like the 360 does. The chance to keep that up for purchase day-1 and for the entire next gen is worth considering. It actually might be worth the cost for them if they can still make money off 360 content well after 360 games start disappearing from retail.
Besides adding to design complexity of the board (adding to the price) and perhaps heat, are there other intrinsic issues with dual APU setup? Would programming for it be more complicated since it just adds another layer of parallelism?
The clock speed jump is the least crazy rumor, not crazy at all. Expect Durango to do it too, if it indeed goes with Jaguar.
Jaguars are kept at 1.6 and below only because they are in battery-operated devices. It's not exactly the same, but, note how your typical notebook ups the clock speed when it's plugged into the wall.
Kazuma Kiryu
Member
oh boy, reading these last few pages, we've really gone into crazy mode. love it!
It would be a lot of work to get them both working well together. If this had been a longtime goal then it wouldn't be an issue but it's nowhere near the kind of thing that could be a last minute addition like that post says. It would be far easier, reasonable, and cost effective to swap out the GPU or something.
Cheaper to have one chip than separate CPU/GPU, much less complex motherboard, advantages with latency and speed between CPU and GPU as they are both on the same chip.
All of those disappear if you go with two APUs. You'd be better off just going with a big standard two chip setup with a nice fast CPU and a fat GPU. Similar motherboard complexity, lower cost as yields aren't being pushed, and much simpler to program
Glorified G
Member
Any random forum post now constitutes as a rumor now?
And you realize that poster is banned, right?
Flatline
Banned
Anything posted on B3D even if it's a poster with only two posts is automatically a rumor and most probably correct. If I post there that PS4 will be able to cook spaggetti it will become a reality.
Thank you. Is there any ramification pertaining to programming for such a machine?
Thanks mate. Sounds like it would be just easier to make a steamxbox.
software emulating a 3 core 3.2Ghz CPU with an 8 core 1.6-2.0Ghz CPU isn't exactly easy.
cartoon_soldier
Member
Even B3D is saying the post is rubbish if you read the thread...
XtremeXpider
Member
PearPC since 2004.
dragonelite
Member
Dont forget the microsoft hired quite some top IBM engineers.
This. Which leaves putting the 360 chip in Durango which is highly unlikely.
XtremeXpider
Member
Maybe it is not easy, but it is not impossible.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Not very optimal either, anyone who's used PearPC to run PPC version of Photoshop under x86 will tell you how absolutely batshit slow it was. Hell running PPC Photoshop under rosetta was equally as painful for anything other than very basic image manipulation.
Sure
-How are you going to keep them fed?
-Are they both sharing 8GB of DDR3 with all of 68GB/s of bandwidth? (having 2 CPUs and 2 GPUs share 68GB/s of bandwidth is recipe for failure).
-How do they communicate with each other?
-Can they work on the same set of data without having to copy it locally? (This basically means an APU composed of...two smaller APUs wut?)
-Is each APU going to have eSRAM for their GPUs?
Sure
-How are you going to keep them fed?
-Are they both sharing 8GB of DDR3 with all of 68GB/s of bandwidth? (having 2 CPUs and 2 GPUs share 68GB/s of bandwidth is recipe for failure).
-How do they communicate with each other?
-Can they work on the same set of data without having to copy it locally? (This basically means an APU composed of...two smaller APUs wut?)
-Is each APU going to have eSRAM for their GPUs?