Video: Why Can't Blacks Get Over Racism? Because It's Still Happening

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Schattenjäger;47235974 said:
Well I don't know what to say

I'm sure we both have anecdotal evidence that supports our claims but when it comes to actual statistics I don't feel it is complete bc I don't think there are studies out there that incorporate manners or style into the findings
http://www.sentencingproject.org/template/page.cfm?id=122
i5JQOfTSNsSMO.bmp

More than 60% of the people in prison are now racial and ethnic minorities. For Black males in their thirties, 1 in every 10 is in prison or jail on any given day. These trends have been intensified by the disproportionate impact of the "war on drugs," in which two-thirds of all persons in prison for drug offenses are people of color.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/keith-rushing/the-reasons-why-so-many-b_b_883310.html
When we think of racial profiling, we generally think of a person of color, perhaps a Black or Latino man or woman, in a car who gets stopped by police based on skin color. Often, a minor traffic infraction, like failing to signal when changing lanes, provides the legal rationale for such stops, when in reality the stops are motivated by race.

Most Americans get why this is wrong. But the role that race plays in the criminal justice system goes far beyond this type of profiling.
Black men in 2003 were almost 12 times as likely to go to prison as White men. Although Black people are 12 percent of the population and 14 percent of drug users, according to Mauer and Cole, they comprise 34 percent of those arrested for drug offenses and 45 percent of those incarcerated in state prisons for such offenses.

Both men attribute disparities in incarceration rates in part to the way urban Black communities are policed.

"Police find drugs where they look for them," they wrote. "Inner-city, open-air drug markets are easier to bust than those that operate out of suburban basements. And numerous studies show that minorities are stopped by police more often than Whites."

To understand the over-incarceration of black people, one must take a good hard look at all the ways black communities are policed. When I worked as a crime reporter for a daily newspaper in Newport News, Va., it was immediately obvious to me that the city's East End -- a low-income Black urban community -- was over-policed. Whenever I drove into the East End, it seemed that I couldn't drive more than a couple of blocks without encountering a police car. I could drive miles in another part of the city without running into an officer.
According to the Wall Street Journal, the New York Police Department's latest data from the first quarter of 2011 shows police still stop and frisk African Americans at far higher rates than they do Whites with their odious stop-and-frisk law. Some 50.6 percent of the 183,326 who were frisked were Black in the first three months of the year, although African Americans comprise just 23 percent of the city's population. Ironically, Whites are more likely to be found with illegal drugs or weapons than Blacks or Latinos.

Profiling is the starting place for this disparate treatment. Blacks and Latinos are also more likely to be charged, tried and convicted than their White counterparts for the same offenses. And money is perhaps the crucial factor in determining whether you get adequate legal help.

and plenty more

But yeah, the police see one of those black kids bringing their drugs and guns and tomfoolery to the good parts of town and know that it has to be stopped at all costs. That is why the youdon'tbelonghere shakedowns that minorities get hit with occur so often.
 
I lay out that "white" means the "common" usage (in my experiences), and ask what to call trashy acting black people - "those other kind"
Should I have just said, "I'm cool with black people, except for when they act like ratchets" - would that have been better?

Why do you need a name so bad?

Most who're old enough don't go around referring to people as trailer trash. It just so happens that black/poor is a hell of a lot more marketable and stylish so its emulated and repackaged at pretty much an unheard of rate. Even when those people aren't poor, its still something pushed by the media and their respective social settings and you and others have said it as well - "acting black"

what kid doesn't want to act like what they're supposed to be?
 
I accept that things are not equal. But when you see economic development in the 'hood, and it gets torched - what the fuck? If someone is coming to help you, and you push them away who's fault is that?

Somehow implying that raising legitimate concerns about institutional racism is a mere "excuse" or "crutch" exclusively beholden to the self-defeating, or that black people who do raise those concerns are primarily self-defeating, is a fantasy. Perhaps well-intentioned in a condescending patrician fashion, perhaps under-informed by a contact void you seem unaware of, but a fantasy nonetheless.

As for the rest of your platitudes:

And I said the system has to change. It has to help them in every way. Bus them, tutor them, give scholarships - whatever. Give them help with incentives to succeed. No pays outs from a stack of blank checks. If they need rent, food and transportation to go to school, whatever it takes. But only with results, and encouragement and goals.

In specifics, what does this mean? Your already mentioned lionization of gentrification? Means-testing the safety net? Tying grades to the safety net (even though teachers will likely do anything to keep their students from being out on the street)? Since black people aren't the only ones, or even near the majority, receiving government benefits, policy on the necessary scale would likely affect a whole range of poor communities - even if they remain oblivious and dispute government touching "their" Medicare.

I am fortunate I am white, and while I didn't take school as seriously as I should have, I paid enough attention to learn how to read, write and speak. I have had a job and paid for everything since 16, including rent. While I don't have the education to do so, I would love to do or see someone just work on interview and speaking skills with people in need (and everyone in general for that matter).

These are basic things you should be doing? Interview training for job seekers and the underprivileged does exist already, although you might not have seen it apparently.

I try my best not to judge people by their cover or skin. If they present themselves respectably, or can carry on some kind of conversation I am game with helping them. I get pleasure from having someone in need of someone asking a question and listening. Everyday that someone asks a question, and ignores the answer or assumes they know everything a part of me dies.

Ignoring the mixed metaphor: You take pleasure from people less well-off than you asking questions and listening to your advice? Perhaps there would be less doubt about your sincerity if your pleasure were taken in empathy and justice and progress, especially when your advice appears vacant of much substance.
 
America is still a very racist country. Do people still seriously believe we live in some kind of post-racial society? Sure it isn't as bad as 60 years ago but that doesn't change the racism that still exists.

I think it's funny how many white people don't even want to accept that white privilege is a thing or are oblivious to it.
 
There's so much institutional racism going on, it's going to take a long while for this country to even begin to heal. Sure, we've taken some cultural strides as a country, but behaving civilized towards one another isn't special in and of itself. We still have to tackle the war on drugs, the prison industry, public education, unionized labor, etc. before this perpetual cycle can actually end. It's a very bleak situation right now, but I'm still hopeful for when the younger, more enlightened generations finally come into power.
 
America is still a very racist country. Do people still seriously believe we live in some kind of post-racial society? Sure it isn't as bad as 60 years ago but that doesn't change the racism that still exists.

I think it's funny how many white people don't even want to accept that white privilege is a thing or are oblivious to it.

Welcome to 'muricuh
 
There's so much institutionalized racism going on, it's going to take a long while for this country to even begin to heal. Sure, we've taken some cultural strides as a country, but behaving civilized towards one another isn't special in and of itself. We still have to tackle the war on drugs, the prison industry, public education, unionized labor, etc. before this perpetual cycle can actually end. It's a very bleak situation right now, but I'm still hopeful for when the younger, more enlightened generations finally come into power.

But that's not going to change at all. Every country has these same issues. Maybe some don't have the racist issues that America has. So while you see statistics on the disproportionate number of blacks and to a lesser extent Hispanics in prison in the US, you may not realize it happens elsewhere.

In Canada and Australia its aboriginals/natives. In India it's Muslims or lower caste groups like untouchables, in China its Uighurs, in Brazil, it's more black-Brazilians than white/Portuguese-Brazilians etc.

It has to do with population and socio economic status.

I wouldn't be surprised at all, as the population of Hispanics in the US skyrockets, that their arrest rates go down, especially once they gain stronger positions of power.

I hope I can get my point across and someone could get what I mean. In Israel, arab-Israelis are for more likely to be arrested or harassed than Jewish Israelis.
 
But that's not going to change at all. Every country has these same issues. Maybe some don't have the racist issues that America has. So while you see statistics on the disproportionate number of blacks and to a lesser extent Hispanics in prison in the US, you may not realize it happens elsewhere.

In Canada and Australia its aboriginals/natives. In India it's Muslims or lower caste groups like untouchables, in China its Uighurs, in Brazil, it's more black-Brazilians than white/Portuguese-Brazilians etc.

It has to do with population and socio economic status.

I wouldn't be surprised at all, as the population of Hispanics in the US skyrockets, that their arrest rates go down, especially once they gain stronger positions of power.

I hope I can get my point across and someone could get what I mean. In Israel, arab-Israelis are for more likely to be arrested or harassed than Jewish Israelis.

None of that has to do with what I said.

End the war on drugs. Restrict the influence of the private prison industry. Fund public education. Quit stifling the unions.

Until those basic things are done, the cities will remain stagnant and drug-ridden, and the minorities there will remain at the bottom with no bootstraps in sight. That's institutional racism; policies which disproportionately affect minorities and destroy entire communities over time.
 
None of that has to do with what I said.

End the war on drugs. Restrict the influence of the private prison industry. Fund public education. Quit stifling the unions.

Until those basic things are done, the cities will remain stagnant and drug-ridden, and the minorities there will remain at the bottom with no bootstraps in sight. That's institutional racism; policies which disproportionately affect minorities and destroy entire communities over time.

How does my comment have to do with nothing you said? Canada doesn't have a private prison industry, it funds public education and has the highest rate of college graduates of any developed country in the world. It doesn't stifle unions etc. And yet, aboriginals are disproportionately in prison despite having access to a wide variety of programs and resources. Did you know in Canada, aboriginal/native ancestry is taken into account during sentencing? Still hasn't changed anything.

Or do you think what happens in America is a unique case? It's not as simple as you claim. Those who are a minority, who are poor and not part of the ruling elite will always be unfairly punished. This is viewed in almost all countries.
 
How does my comment have to do with nothing you said? Canada doesn't have a private prison industry, it funds public education and has the highest rate of college graduates of any developed country in the world. It doesn't stifle unions etc. And yet, aboriginals are disproportionately in prison despite having access to a wide variety of programs and resources. Did you know in Canada, aboriginal/native ancestry is taken into account during sentencing? Still hasn't changed anything.

Or do you think what happens in America is a unique case? It's not as simple as you claim. Those who are a minority, who are poor and not part of the ruling elite will always be unfairly punished. This is viewed in almost all countries.

We have more people in prison than China. How are you going to go compare us to Canada?

Also, just because other countries haven't solved their problems doesn't mean it's not worth our time to try.
 
How does my comment have to do with nothing you said? Canada doesn't have a private prison industry, it funds public education and has the highest rate of college graduates of any developed country in the world. It doesn't stifle unions etc. And yet, aboriginals are disproportionately in prison despite having access to a wide variety of programs and resources. Did you know in Canada, aboriginal/native ancestry is taken into account during sentencing? Still hasn't changed anything.

Or do you think what happens in America is a unique case? It's not as simple as you claim. Those who are a minority, who are poor and not part of the ruling elite will always be unfairly punished. This is viewed in almost all countries.

Yes discrimination occurs in other places and along other lines as well. But this thread is about discrimination against black people in America, so what is your point?
 
I think that video is pretty bias. Racism isn't exclusive to white people. If they would have done the same demonstration in a black or hispanic neighborhood, the same thing would have happened. Trying to say that, "It's our backyard" as an argument is complete invalid. The same exact thing could be applied in a black/hispanic neighborhood.

The point is, the video has done nothing to address bigger issues that are the root of the stereotypes people have today. If the media would put this much attention into violence and poverty, I think we'd actually see racism decrease much quicker. Racism has come a long way in this country and is getting better everyday but videos like this only make the problem worse imo and fester more hatred.
 
I think that video is pretty bias. Racism isn't exclusive to white people. If they would have done the same demonstration in a black or hispanic neighborhood, the same thing would have happened. Trying to say that, "It's our backyard" as an argument is complete invalid. The same exact thing could be applied in a black/hispanic neighborhood.

We keep hearing that in this thread and in the YouTube comments, but unless somebody provides us with actual information about this, it's nothing but a baseless assertion.

Meanwhile, here's some food for thought: A Girl Like Me
 
I think that video is pretty bias. Racism isn't exclusive to white people. If they would have done the same demonstration in a black or hispanic neighborhood, the same thing would have happened. Trying to say that, "It's our backyard" as an argument is complete invalid. The same exact thing could be applied in a black/hispanic neighborhood.

Would it really?
 
The "sleeping in a car" thing is very confusing to me.

I'm not going to deny the kind of latent racism that took part in most of the video. But am I actually expected to believe that white people are so racist that we'll just call the cops on a couple of black guys sleeping? Not likely. It's the kind of thing that makes me question the show's presentation of what happened. If it did happen, it's obviously such an outlier/anamoly, I'm not entirely sure what I'm supposed to do with the information.
 
The "sleeping in a car" thing is very confusing to me.

I'm not going to deny the kind of latent racism that took part in most of the video. But am I actually expected to believe that white people are so racist that we'll just call the cops on a couple of black guys sleeping? Not likely. It's the kind of thing that makes me question the show's presentation of what happened. If it did happen, it's obviously such an outlier/anamoly, I'm not entirely sure what I'm supposed to do with the information.

They talk about it in the first video (the OP is the second one):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=jxSiIcT4lvI#t=300s

5 minutes in
 
I think that video is pretty bias. Racism isn't exclusive to white people. If they would have done the same demonstration in a black or hispanic neighborhood, the same thing would have happened. Trying to say that, "It's our backyard" as an argument is complete invalid. The same exact thing could be applied in a black/hispanic neighborhood.

The point is, the video has done nothing to address bigger issues that are the root of the stereotypes people have today. If the media would put this much attention into violence and poverty, I think we'd actually see racism decrease much quicker. Racism has come a long way in this country and is getting better everyday but videos like this only make the problem worse imo and fester more hatred.

Fester hatred by whom against what group?
 
I don't think the video of the interracial couple was as offensive as the one involving the bicycle. The restaurant video involved seniors; people from a past generation with different values and attitudes. The example of the bicycle incident, however, was far more troubling for me not just because of the contrast of attention the black kid got, but the tone of the attention; it was far more aggressive and confrontational.
 
I don't think the video of the interracial couple was as offensive as the one involving the bicycle. The restaurant video involved seniors; people from a past generation with different values and attitudes. The example of the bicycle incident, however, was far more troubling for me not just because of the contrast of attention the black kid got, but the tone of the attention; it was far more aggressive and confrontational.

Yeah, I was REALLY upset after that video. The way they surrounded him, yelled at him, took his picture and taunted him...right after seeing how little attention was given to the white guy stealing the same damn bike.
 
They talk about it in the first video (the OP is the second one):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=jxSiIcT4lvI#t=300s

5 minutes in

Not really any more satisfying than the original video. It's still a ridiculous circumstance and I feel like I'm supposed to be shocked and feel guilty, as if a significant portion of the population is racist/stupid enough to call the cops in that situation. I simply don't believe that.

And again, talking only about the sleeping thing here, not the vandalism experiment.
 
Not really any more satisfying than the original video. It's still a ridiculous circumstance and I feel like I'm supposed to be shocked and feel guilty, as if a significant portion of the population is racist/stupid enough to call the cops in that situation. I simply don't believe that.

And again, talking only about the sleeping thing here, not the vandalism experiment.

It happened. I don't have any stats handy about similar false alarms, so I can't say if it's that common or not. But it was interesting, nonetheless. Also, I don't know what you're supposed to "feel guilty" about. That's a strange thing to say.
 
It happened. I don't have any stats handy about similar false alarms, so I can't say if it's that common or not. But it was interesting, nonetheless. Also, I don't know what you're supposed to "feel guilty" about. That's a strange thing to say.

Yes, it happened, but lots of terrible things happen. The question is what its relevance is. My argument is that it's such a ridiculous anomaly that it doesn't have any. On the other hand, the main focus of the video was a pretty clear illustration of subconscious bias, if not overt racism, in a bunch of people which made a better point.

The issue of guilt was a poorly worded way of saying I think the way it was framed in the video was as if the reaction should be "look at what a horrible racist society we live in, innocent sleeping black people are perceived as criminals," when I think the appropriate reaction should be "one guy they caught is a complete fucking idiot and a racist." In short my issue is with trying to draw larger societal generalizations from one incident which hardly represents the norm in my opinion.
 
Yes, it happened, but lots of terrible things happen. The question is what its relevance is. My argument is that it's such a ridiculous anomaly that it doesn't have any. On the other hand, the main focus of the video was a pretty clear illustration of subconscious bias, if not overt racism, in a bunch of people which made a better point.

The issue of guilt was a poorly worded way of saying I think the way it was framed in the video was as if the reaction should be "look at what a horrible racist society we live in, innocent sleeping black people are perceived as criminals," when I think the appropriate reaction should be "one guy they caught is a complete fucking idiot and a racist." In short my issue is with trying to draw larger societal generalizations from one incident which hardly represents the norm in my opinion.

I don't know that it was anomalous. There have been multiple studies showing that participants appear to view black people as inherently more threatening. For instance, in a study where participants were shown photographs of individuals holding objects (gun, soda can, wallet, and so forth) and had to choose whether to shoot or not to shoot as quickly as possible, participants were more likely to mistakenly think the black target was armed when he was not, and mistakenly think that the white target was unarmed when he was, in fact, armed. And this is consistent with multiple other studies that have been done. Or we know that in one survey, respondents were asked, "Would you close your eyes for a second, envision of drug user, and describe that person to me?" Ninety-five percent of respondents viewed a black man, in spite of the fact that African Americans were only 15 percent of drug users and white people were the overwhelming majority. There was also a study in which participants watched a news story about a crime where the criminal's race was never identified, and 60 percent of viewers still thought they recalled seeing one, and 70 percent of those viewers believed that the perpetrator was black.

So I don't really think of this as anomalous. I think this is something predictable and perhaps even expected because of a combination of conscious and unconscious attitudes.
 
Yeah, I was REALLY upset after that video. The way they surrounded him, yelled at him, took his picture and taunted him...right after seeing how little attention was given to the white guy stealing the same damn bike.

I'm going to echo this.

Black man > Get angry/confrontational and call the cops

White man > Ask him what he's doing and then leave regardless of his answer

White woman > Help her steal the bike (if you're male)

I'm not surprised at all. Just extremely annoyed.
 
I don't know that it was anomalous. There have been multiple studies showing that participants appear to view black people as inherently more threatening. For instance, in a study where participants were shown photographs of individuals holding objects (gun, soda can, wallet, and so forth) and had to choose whether to shoot or not to shoot as quickly as possible, participants were more likely to mistakenly think the black target was armed when he was not, and mistakenly think that the white target was unarmed when he was, in fact, armed. And this is consistent with multiple other studies that have been done. Or we know that in one survey, respondents were asked, "Would you close your eyes for a second, envision of drug user, and describe that person to me?" Ninety-five percent of respondents viewed a black man, in spite of the fact that African Americans were only 15 percent of drug users and white people were the overwhelming majority. There was also a study in which participants watched a news story about a crime where the criminal's race was never identified, and 60 percent of viewers still thought they recalled seeing one, and 70 percent of those viewers believed that the perpetrator was black.

So I don't really think of this as anomalous. I think this is something predictable and perhaps even expected because of a combination of conscious and unconscious attitudes.

To me this seems much more relevant to the main point of the video, the vandalism, than the caller reporting the guys sleeping in the car. I certainly agree there is racial bias in many people, and said as much in my earlier posts. What I don't believe is that our society is so racist that any significant number of people will be so alarmed by a black man doing, quite literally, nothing as to call the police on him.

I'm sure it looks like I'm nitpicking and perhaps I am. I am not in the slightest disputing that there are some real racial biases at play today. I just took issue with the portrayal of the one call regarding the sleeping people. The point of this TV program is, as it's titled, "What would you do?" Its aim is to show how ordinary people react to situations and prompt some introspection about how you would react. The commentary on the show about this one caller was, in my opinion, framed to suggest that we all have this same level (the stronger level, of reporting a man for sleeping) of racism within us, and I strongly disagree with that. There's nothing I can do with that information.
 
Would you look at that? Those blacks broke into a car and fell asleep. I've seen it a million times. They're incorrigible!
 
I don't believe racism will "die" until we have to think as a species more than individuals.

Racism wont die until we are all the same shade of brown.

Couple of hundred years of interbreeding and we will get there.

Even then there will be prejudice towards the slightly more brown people.
 
http://www.sentencingproject.org/template/page.cfm?id=122
i5JQOfTSNsSMO.bmp



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/keith-rushing/the-reasons-why-so-many-b_b_883310.html




and plenty more

But yeah, the police see one of those black kids bringing their drugs and guns and tomfoolery to the good parts of town and know that it has to be stopped at all costs. That is why the youdon'tbelonghere shakedowns that minorities get hit with occur so often.

I have no doubt that racial profiling occurs. But there are hundreds of factors that determine the likely hood of incarceration, such as: socio-economic status, local laws, type of police force locally, type of incarceration and length of incarceration, violent vs. non-violent crimes ect... If you really want to get a proper understanding of how much of an impact racial profiling is you'd have to go through all that work instead of just comparing basic numbers as is done in the charts above.

With that being said, with such differences between blacks and whites its hard to think that there is no racial profiling going on. But you can't really understand the real effect it has on incarceration rates until you dig deeper and gather more data.
 
I have no doubt that racial profiling occurs. But there are hundreds of factors that determine the likely hood of incarceration, such as: socio-economic status, local laws, type of police force locally, type of incarceration and length of incarceration, violent vs. non-violent crimes ect... If you really want to get a proper understanding of how much of an impact racial profiling is you'd have to go through all that work instead of just comparing basic numbers as is done in the charts above.

With that being said, with such differences between blacks and whites its hard to think that there is no racial profiling going on. But you can't really understand the real effect it has on incarceration rates until you dig deeper and gather more data.
There is mountains of studies, reports, etc. But when presented you always get people that say "hmmm, there might be something but we need more".
 
How does my comment have to do with nothing you said? Canada doesn't have a private prison industry, it funds public education and has the highest rate of college graduates of any developed country in the world. It doesn't stifle unions etc. And yet, aboriginals are disproportionately in prison despite having access to a wide variety of programs and resources. Did you know in Canada, aboriginal/native ancestry is taken into account during sentencing? Still hasn't changed anything.

Or do you think what happens in America is a unique case? It's not as simple as you claim. Those who are a minority, who are poor and not part of the ruling elite will always be unfairly punished. This is viewed in almost all countries.

Actually Harper wants to privatize federal prisons. He also instituted minimum sentencing to ensure more people go to jail so those prisons will be a growth industry.
 
Did they ever do this in a black community? I'm just curious if the results would be the same, different or reversed.

Anyway I dont need much convincing that this kind of thing happens, I'm more curious as to why it happens.
 
I have no doubt that racial profiling occurs. But there are hundreds of factors that determine the likely hood of incarceration, such as: socio-economic status, local laws, type of police force locally, type of incarceration and length of incarceration, violent vs. non-violent crimes ect... If you really want to get a proper understanding of how much of an impact racial profiling is you'd have to go through all that work instead of just comparing basic numbers as is done in the charts above.

With that being said, with such differences between blacks and whites its hard to think that there is no racial profiling going on. But you can't really understand the real effect it has on incarceration rates until you dig deeper and gather more data.

All of this data exists, much of linked in this very topic.
 
All of this data exists, much of linked in this very topic.

Not accusing Turgenev of this, but I find it interesting how much effort people put into trying to downplay the obvious role racism has in all of this. There always must be something else that can explain black incarceration rates that are six times higher than white rates besides race.
 
Not accusing Turgenev of this, but I find it interesting how much effort people put into trying to downplay the obvious role racism has in all of this. There always must be something else that can explain black incarceration rates that are six times higher than white rates besides race.

People, particularly white people, downplay racism because if they admit how rampant it is, they might feel a bit guilty for enjoying white privilege. By downplaying racism, they can deny white privilege exists and be comfortable believing that they earned everything they have fair and square on an even footing with visible minorities. While they undoubtedly earned what they have, they certainly didn't start on even footing with a black man.
 
The "sleeping in a car" thing is very confusing to me.

I'm not going to deny the kind of latent racism that took part in most of the video. But am I actually expected to believe that white people are so racist that we'll just call the cops on a couple of black guys sleeping? Not likely. It's the kind of thing that makes me question the show's presentation of what happened. If it did happen, it's obviously such an outlier/anamoly, I'm not entirely sure what I'm supposed to do with the information.

One of my neighbors called the cops b/c they saw some black guys driving through an alley. She even sent out a little neighborhood alert cause she thought they were looking for houses to rob.

So yeah, someone calling cops on people sleeping in a car is not a stretch ime.
 
In the northeastern city I live in, the common belief is that blacks/minorities have an advantage in the hiring process and that the bosses won't mess with them like they will us whites because they'll pull the race card.

This isn't my opinion but I've heard it circulated a lot, how can we change this perspective?
 
Not accusing Turgenev of this, but I find it interesting how much effort people put into trying to downplay the obvious role racism has in all of this. There always must be something else that can explain black incarceration rates that are six times higher than white rates besides race.

The most frustrating thing about discussions about race. People adamant that they know what's going on when it shows in their posts that they don't have a clue. Even if you have direct experience, it still is not the whole truth unless you are living in certain states and have seen the worst of the worst.
 
I have no doubt that racial profiling occurs. But there are hundreds of factors that determine the likely hood of incarceration, such as: socio-economic status, local laws, type of police force locally, type of incarceration and length of incarceration, violent vs. non-violent crimes ect... If you really want to get a proper understanding of how much of an impact racial profiling is you'd have to go through all that work instead of just comparing basic numbers as is done in the charts above.

With that being said, with such differences between blacks and whites its hard to think that there is no racial profiling going on. But you can't really understand the real effect it has on incarceration rates until you dig deeper and gather more data.

I suggest that you read this book and this topic. The topic is about the book and so it doesn't cover nearly as much detail but it does have some CliffsNotes information about issues relating to the structural racism in the American justice system.

The examples you give, if you actually do examine them, are actually provide more evidence for racial disparities at every level of - from who is arrested to who is prosecuted to who is incarcerated to who is charged at state court versus federal court - at every level a black man is significantly more likely than a white man to suffer the worse punishment. In some cases it is absolutely ridiculous, as in the example in the OP I linked to, where the Supreme Court actively protected the prosecutor's office from subpoenas demanding records to establish a pattern of racial injustice:

I am finishing up Michelle Alexander’s book The New Jim Crow and find myself absolutely appalled. I have been writing about the many injustices in law enforcement and the courts for nearly a decade. I thought I knew how bad it was. But some of the statistics and court rulings in this book have shocked even me.

She writes about the case of Christopher Lee Armstrong, who was arrested in 1992 on charges of conspiracy to distribute more than 50 grams of crack cocaine. The prosecutor decided to try Armstrong in federal court, where the penalties were much higher than in state court, and the federal public defenders who handled his case found it remarkable that they had never seen a single case of a white defendant in a case involving crack tried in federal court. Over the previous three years, they had handled 53 such cases; 48 of the defendants were black, 5 were Latino. None were white.

We have the perception in this country that powder cocaine is a drug used primarily by white people, while crack cocaine is used primarily by black people. That perception is false. In fact, there isn’t much of a difference in the rates of buying and selling crack between the different racial groups. Yet blacks are arrested at a far higher rate than whites for possession and selling of crack. And that’s just the beginning of the problem. Once arrested, black defendants are far more likely to be charged, convicted and sentenced to prison — and infinitely more likely to be sent to federal court rather than state court for longer sentences. In fact, the government in that case submitted a list of more than 2,000 crack cases in federal courts over a three year period. All but 11 of them were black; not a single one was white. Not one.

Yet the courts ignored all of this, and refused to allow Armstrong’s attorneys to file a subpoena for records from the prosecutor that would allow them to show a pattern of racial injustice through the patterns of which cases were sent to federal court and which to state court. In 1996, the Supreme Court ruled that the prosecutors did not have to make any evidence available to the defense, concluding that courts must show great deference to prosecutors in how they go about their business, even in the face of such staggering statistical evidence of bias, whether conscious or unconscious.

This is quite similar to the way the government handles standing in warrantless wiretap cases, with this shell game that requires someone to prove that they were the target of illegal surveillance before they have standing to sue over it — but they aren’t going to tell you that, so you can’t prove it. In this case, the court demands that the defendants prove the very thing they are requesting data to help them prove. Heads the government wins, tails you lose. Actually, we all lose. Our criminal justice system is broken from top to bottom.

You also mentioned socioeconomic status; if this were the explanation we would see African Americans overrepresented, because proportionally speaking they do make up a larger percentage of poorer people than they do the population as a whole. What it does not explain is why more than six-and-a-half times as many black people are incarcerated as white people. Violent versus non-violent crime does not explain what has happened over the last thirty years. Violent crime did not cause the prison boom; the rate of violent crime has gone up and down over the years and hasn't been attached to incarceration rates. Incarceration rates have been soaring for three decades and despite violent crime being at its lowest ebb in those three decades, incarceration rates continue to climb. Drug offenders account for nearly 61 percent of the expansion, and non-whites are arrested, prosecuted, convicted, and incarcerated at rates obscenely higher than whites despite being no more likely to be a drug user or break the law.

There is only one explanation that fits the facts, and that is systemic structural racism combined with multiple Supreme Court decisions that insulate the justice system from accusations of racial inequity.
 
The most frustrating thing about discussions about race. People adamant that they know what's going on when it shows in their posts that they don't have a clue. Even if you have direct experience, it still is not the whole truth unless you are living in certain states and have seen the worst of the worst.

You can't have a calm conversation about race without being viewed by some as "playing the race card" or "blaming the White man".

When I discuss race it is never from a "woe is me" perspective but rather from a "this is my experience".

Why is impossible for some people to see that?
 
But that's not going to change at all. Every country has these same issues. Maybe some don't have the racist issues that America has. So while you see statistics on the disproportionate number of blacks and to a lesser extent Hispanics in prison in the US, you may not realize it happens elsewhere.

In Canada and Australia its aboriginals/natives. In India it's Muslims or lower caste groups like untouchables, in China its Uighurs, in Brazil, it's more black-Brazilians than white/Portuguese-Brazilians etc.

It has to do with population and socio economic status.

I wouldn't be surprised at all, as the population of Hispanics in the US skyrockets, that their arrest rates go down, especially once they gain stronger positions of power.

I hope I can get my point across and someone could get what I mean. In Israel, arab-Israelis are for more likely to be arrested or harassed than Jewish Israelis.

Saying that "every country has the same issue [with racism]" is like saying that Japan and the United States have the same issue with gun violence, in that the number of gun crimes in both countries is above zero.
 
Just to throw my two bits in...

1) I was absolutely incensed when I heard the "not in my backyard" comment.

2) As a "white" Hispanic I enjoy much white privilege... but I sweat a little every time there's a cop behind me as I drive. I could be absolutely in the right, but I'll still be nervous.
 
Racism still exists. People will try to make you believe that is doesnt exist. They will point to Obama, and amongst other things, but it's very much alive. As a Hispanic male, I experience racism virtually every day. It's an everyday thing. You cannot possibly understand unless it happens to you. You will try look at it in a rational way, dismiss it, and and just carry about your life. It's not rational and it's the little things that you don't see that makes racism just that. Go play call of duty or halo and you will see the amount of hatred kids have today. Even If they are mere words, you will be shocked. And most people while they may not like to hear it, at the end don't care because it doesn't effect them.

To me this is a epidemic that needs and will be corrected.
 
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