Support NeoGAF

[Belmonte]

Hate the term "artificial difficulty".

Most of the time it just means "I can't pass this section so the game must be cheating".The very few times which the term could have a point, it doesn't. There is nothing "natural" in a game.

Classic examples of "artificial difficulty":

An hard boss with more HP than it should makes the battle legit harder. The player will need more concentration to not drop the ball in the middle of the fight. With the HP bloat, perhaps the boss isn't as fun to face, but definitely is harder.

A RPG which the player feels there is too much grind is not artificial difficulty either. Perhaps the gameplay loop is not satisfying/don't have enough incentives for the player to grind, but the grind per se does not make the game harder.

 

[Barnabot]

"breaks muh immersion". Do you play games and then go like "is this the real life?" while playing it?

 

[MrS]

People unironically bashing Fortnite. What's not to love? Game is a phenom and deserves its numbers.

 

[gamerguywashere]

"breaks muh immersion". Do you play games and then go like "is this the real life?" while playing it?

that's a good one


best combat ever, but silent protagonist

 

[Spukc]

People unironically bashing Fortnite. What's not to love? Game is a phenom and deserves its numbers.

so how many jars of gamergirl bathwater did you order?

 

[PlayerPurple]

Great thread topic!

For me, I’m still confused by the most common trophy/achievement “complaints“:

• People seem to hate it when a game’s trophies are “too hard” or can’t all be obtained in just one playthrough.
• They also seem to REALLY hate any trophies for online modes.

I don’t get this. Isn’t the point of trophies to achieve something few others have for bragging rights?

 

[Roman Empire]

MMOs, Games as a Service (GaaS), and Gachas being grindy.

Seriously, that is what defines them because after you blow away all the story and easier content you are just running things to min-maxing your loadouts/characters/weapons/abilities. They are grindy by nature and what makes or breaks these kinds of games is the gameplay loop and loot.

Oh, another complaint about these games. "YoU CuRbStomP EveRyThinG PAsT ThE ENdGamE, ThERe is NOt EnOUgH ChaLLEnGInG CoNTenT". Seriously, really?! That's the point.

 

[Belmonte]

About turn-based combat being "outdated" and a "relic of the past"

You know what makes it even worse? When, to defend this idea, they say "Devs only did turn-based because they could not do action at the time."

Dude pick Ys, Dragon Slayer, Faxanadu, the entire Seiken Densetsu series, Soul Blazer and many, many others and put in the garbage of time. Ridiculous.

 

[MrS]

so how many jars of gamergirl bathwater did you order?

Just the five but I don't see how that's relevant...

 

[Chastten]

Framerates, resolutions and other technical stuff. Mostly I simply don't... see it? If the artstyle is pretty than all the rest can be damned. And quite frankly, I don't really see a difference between something like 30 and 60 fps. I'm sure it's important in some genres, but not in anything I play.

A lot of Xbox 360/PS3 games still look absolutely beautiful to me. Something like Tales of Vesperia, Eternal Sonata, Blue Dragon or Valkyria Chronicles could easily pass as a current gen game to me. Hell, even something like Mario Galaxy or Mario Sunshine is a looker to this day.

 

[Fake]

'Getting tired of Open Worlds.', while waiting for BOTW2.

 

[Cert.in.Death]

Great thread topic!

For me, I’m still confused by the most common trophy/achievement “complaints“:

• People seem to hate it when a game’s trophies are “too hard” or can’t all be obtained in just one playthrough.
• They also seem to REALLY hate any trophies for online modes.

I don’t get this. Isn’t the point of trophies to achieve something few others have for bragging rights?

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. It varies based on the game and because both Sony and MS have done f*ck all in spotlighting or rewarding players for actual accomplishments, trophs & cheevos are more of a collection activity than anything else. A profile with completed games is a lot like a passport, readily capable of showing others all the places you've been and things you've done.

Trophs/cheevos that are excessively difficult or tedious are more asinine than they are gratifying.

 

[Spokker]

90% of the time when someone says a game is broken, it's not. It just doesn't work like you want it to or it's an exaggeration.

 

[Kylars Bluff]

Visual Fidelity....What the hell is this? Isn’t this completely subjective across platforms and other hardware/equipment like TV, cables, high speed internet? I don’t get this term and is there an industry standard or benchmark that is being used or is it really Visual FUDelity?

 

[Danjin44]

"they cant take the character seriously if the design is too sexy"

Why?

 

[alabtrosMyster]

Constant complaints about backtracking in adventure games... I mean,we also have people complaining about corridor shooters!

 

[johntown]

Console only gamers complaining about people who complain about framerate.

If your a PC gamer you get it.

 

[V4skunk]

I know right. There's nothing else to those games besides difficulty.

Nothing for people that want easy mode.
And I'm no no "pro" but i beat all the Soulsborne and even platinumed DS1.
I didn't git gud enuf yet on Sekiro though, but I don't cry for easy mode.

 

[M1chl]

"they cant take the character seriously if the design is too sexy"

Why?

Haven't you heard the memo you chauvinistic pig, women are not allow to look good anymore.

 

[Rean no Kiseki]

Nintendo continues to churn out the same old Mario. They never strive to do anything new!

I see this a lot in every new Mario announcement or thread. On the one hand, it's nice when they do revisit a proven formula. On the other hand, Nintendo has done more with Mario than any other developer and franchise. The so-called mainline Mario games are so beloved because they're usually revolutionary in some manner of design. 3D All-Stars puts this on full display.

My problem isn't with the mainline Mario platform games, they're great! the problem is with the spinoffs and how it needing the same sanitized approach when it should be experimental and unique, instead senile Miyamoto killed any chance of any Mario spinoff being unique with his Disney like draconian practices about unique characters and the like.

It makes you wonder what those guys at Nintendo could really do if they were left to be as creative as possible, Splatoon was almost destroyed by Miyamoto's meddling cause he thought it should be about Mario characters and not new unique ones, thank God his opinion didn't come to pass.

 

[PlayerPurple]

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. It varies based on the game and because both Sony and MS have done f*ck all in spotlighting or rewarding players for actual accomplishments, trophs & cheevos are more of a collection activity than anything else. A profile with completed games is a lot like a passport, readily capable of showing others all the places you've been and things you've done.

Trophs/cheevos that are excessively difficult or tedious are more asinine than they are gratifying.

Interesting. What kind of spotlight/reward did you have in mind?

I get that trophies are more about collecting, and I’ve heard the passport analogy before. But stamps only show that you’ve been to a country, not that you’ve seen & done everything in it.

Gamers seem less satisfied with just having that game’s “stamp” on their profile, as if it really only counts if it’s a game that’s been 100%/Platinum’d.

Maybe Sony/MS would be better off not displaying percentages on public profiles, except maybe a little “Platinum” symbol.

 

[StormCell]

Hate the term "artificial difficulty".

Most of the time it just means "I can't pass this section so the game must be cheating".The very few times which the term could have a point, it doesn't. There is nothing "natural" in a game.

Classic examples of "artificial difficulty":

An hard boss with more HP than it should makes the battle legit harder. The player will need more concentration to not drop the ball in the middle of the fight. With the HP bloat, perhaps the boss isn't as fun to face, but definitely is harder.

A RPG which the player feels there is too much grind is not artificial difficulty either. Perhaps the gameplay loop is not satisfying/don't have enough incentives for the player to grind, but the grind per se does not make the game harder.

This one strikes a bit of a nerve for me. I don't know if this counts as 'artificial difficulty' or just a 'difficulty spike', but I've always hated that fight with the Omega Pirate in Metroid Prime. Battling him is not the problem. It's the waves of beam pirates that keep interfering in the boss fight. I loath any time a game throws fodder into the mix that you either have to take time to clear or suck it up and take it from behind while you try to kill off the boss quickly.

I generally hate when games have difficulty spikes, though.

 

[RedVIper]

Complaints about your PS4 controller not working on the PS5. I do not recall at any time where the old controller for the old gen console worked for the new gen console. Your PS2 controller did not work on PS3. Your PS3 controller did not work on PS4. Your Xbox 360 controller will not work on Xbox One. Why is this a big deal now?

Pretty sure my ps1 controller worked on ps2. And my ps2 controller certainly worked on ps3, you just needed an adapter.

Also even if you were right, witch you aren't, that doesn't mean it couldn't work on ps5.

 

[StormCell]

My problem isn't with the mainline Mario platform games, they're great! the problem is with the spinoffs and how it needing the same sanitized approach when it should be experimental and unique, instead senile Miyamoto killed any chance of any Mario spinoff being unique with his Disney like draconian practices about unique characters and the like.

It makes you wonder what those guys at Nintendo could really do if they were left to be as creative as possible, Splatoon was almost destroyed by Miyamoto's meddling cause he thought it should be about Mario characters and not new unique ones, thank God his opinion didn't come to pass.

At this point, I would consider Miyamoto a legitimate complaint. His best days are probably far behind him, and his recent opinions or pieces of advice are pretty much the direct opposite of what I want from Nintendo. As good as the new Paper Mario game supposedly is, I've yet to bother with it because Miyamoto's advice resulted in no story and apparently no uniquely designed characters in the game. Like, how did that help the dev team? They're reduced to stock characters.

I suppose Miyamoto's next piece of advice/challenge for a dev team will be "Make this game without using anything more than solid color textures! I expect a perfect 10 score in the graphics department, though."

 

[AgentP]

"I can only use asymmetric sticks"

As if your brain knows the difference in the very slight difference in angle/position when you are playing. This is pure fanboy drivel.

 

[Bartski]

people complaining about animation being too detailed

 

[RedVIper]

Hate the term "artificial difficulty".

Most of the time it just means "I can't pass this section so the game must be cheating".The very few times which the term could have a point, it doesn't. There is nothing "natural" in a game.

Classic examples of "artificial difficulty":

An hard boss with more HP than it should makes the battle legit harder. The player will need more concentration to not drop the ball in the middle of the fight. With the HP bloat, perhaps the boss isn't as fun to face, but definitely is harder.

A RPG which the player feels there is too much grind is not artificial difficulty either. Perhaps the gameplay loop is not satisfying/don't have enough incentives for the player to grind, but the grind per se does not make the game harder.

If you've ever played an RTS you know artificial dificulty is real.

The AI is omniscient, if you build an unit it will build a counter, it has unlimited resources, knows where you are at all times, etc etc.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Not playing something because it has cartoony graphics.
Not playing something because it "looks like its for kids" - whoever says this, I immediatly assume is a 14 yo.
Refusing to play older games, even if they look and play decently.
Being put off by boobs, butts and general sexyness of female characters (classic)

But the one that gets the cake is:
Complaining about previously exclusive titles going to other platforms

 

[Cert.in.Death]

Interesting. What kind of spotlight/reward did you have in mind?

I get that trophies are more about collecting, and I’ve heard the passport analogy before. But stamps only show that you’ve been to a country, not that you’ve seen & done everything in it.

Gamers seem less satisfied with just having that game’s “stamp” on their profile, as if it really only counts if it’s a game that’s been 100%/Platinum’d.

Maybe Sony/MS would be better off not displaying percentages on public profiles, except maybe a little “Platinum” symbol.

I don't mind the trophy system; platinums, for the most part, represent that a player has seen and done everything the developer intended. Cheevos not as much since there is no summary outside of it being 100% (and since new achievements are added with new DLC drops, it's not a reliable indicator). Sony has the same 100% problem, but at least the platinum trophy remains.

As for enhancing the existing systems, it would require the platform holder to put their thumb on the scale and ensure there is some kind of equivalency of challenge from game-to-game, which is not going to happen. Instead, I think they should be more willing to dole them out: let all games and DLCs have platinum trophies and let the community go nuts. There are ways they could even put limited-time trophies into existing games or give rewards to a profile (reward-based avatars, themes, symbols to display alongside their username, etc.) to commemorate the accomplishment, but it's not something I think either Sony or MS is willing to oversee and commit resources to.

 

[dwish]

God of War is an interactive movie

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

"No I can't support this game it has gacha. What do you mean it is free and you don't really have to spend money in it? Play the game to unlock things rather than buy em on impulse? lol fucking China shill. Why yes I buy full priced games and the season pass at launch."

 

[Myths]

Ludonarrative Dissonance-I just don't analyze things that much. To me a game having a good story and the game also having great combat are not at odds with each other. A little bit of stretching is called for in any piece of entertainment but especially video games.

The idea that a game must be lighthearted, colorful and wacky in order to be fun. I see dark, realistic and deep games being accused of not being fun and I don't get it. They are fun in the same way that horror movies, and thrillers are fun to watch. A game does not need to look like a saturday morning cartoon to be fun.

The main one that doesn't make sense to me is with people criticizing Uncharted/Nathan Drake who is supposedly a serial killer because he ends up killing a lot of people along the way.

1. He does not go looking for treasure because he likes to kill. He just ends up in situations where if he doesn't shoot first, he will get killed.
2. He's not just killing random people! He's not hunting people! lol
3. He was being chased by/competing with essentially pirates in the first game, some rogue army group in the second.....not exactly the type who wouldn't kill him. You can fault him for going after treasure and all but it's not like killing is his number one goal.

Some of the things that also bother me you have covered pretty much.

Basically, I was going to say both of these. I can’t even stand the highlighted term.

 

[Guilty_AI]

"No I can't support this game it has gacha. What do you mean it is free and you don't really have to spend money in it? Play the game to unlock things rather than buy em on impulse? lol fucking China shill. Why yes I buy full priced games and the season pass at launch."

tbf if you're the kind of player that likes exploring everything the game has/unlocking everything, season passes and MTX can be a huge torn on the experience

 

[Zog]

“The game is too difficult”

ok, so you have two options: either don’t play since no one is forcing you or endure the difficulty until you finally have a grip of how the mechanics work and soon enough you’ll start saying “this is pretty easy.”

Can I get my money back then?

 

[Games of Today]

The weapon Jamming and Malaria in Far Cry 2. To me they add so much more immersion to the game. I actually feel like I'm in some shit hole in Africa.

I also want to say that I hate mini maps and HUD on my screen, again Far Cry 2 spoiled me with that. The in game map should be just that, in game I should have to hold it in my characters hands to read it.

 

[BlitzerRadic]

IMO, the most "popular" gamer complaints are dumb (eg: mtx, character designs). If it bothers you so much don't buy it and/or play a different game.

 

[teezzy]

IMO, the most "popular" gamer complaints are dumb (eg: mtx, character designs). If it bothers you so much don't buy it and/or play a different game.

Agreed.

If you're old enough to whinge all day long about something dumb in a video game, then youre absolutely old enough to sell the game and move on instead of crying about it. It makes you realize why the hobby is still so often associated with immaturity.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

I can't identify with this character. What the fuck? Why not? Why does that matter? I can't identify with Pinhead but I still love Hellraiser.

 

[TranscendentDee]

When people make a big deal about clipping.

 

[smart_brazileiro]

What I never understood is criticizing games like Heavy Rain, Until Dawn and Detroit for being nothing more than one single quick time event. Which they totally are. Unapologetically. That's why I play them, motherfucker.

 

[smart_brazileiro]

Also... This game is not respecting my time. I can't even... Don't fucking play it then.

 

[GametimeUK]

Criticism when game sequels are criticised for feeling like the previous game. I mean isn't that what you want from a sequel? A game that feels familiar to the previous game? Obviously their has to be some change, but the gameplay preferably will be identifiable.

Funny when you see guys with Pokémon avatars criticise a game like CoD for being the same old crap and milking the franchise when Pokémon releases 2 near identical games every time they release and usually have a 3rd game that again is super similar. In these Pokémon games its standard pick out of 3 Pokémon, have a rival, get badges and beat elite 4.

Not that I criticise Pokémon heavily for it, but I just don't get the hypocrisy sometimes.

 

[R6Rider]

People complaining about stories all the time or the writing.

 

[Azurro]

I don't know if it's still a thing, but there was a time when everyone hated cutscenes. All games had you in control in these ridiculous sections with a guy talking to you behind a glass wall or some other contrived thing where they dumped their lines on you while the player ends up jumping like a retard because it was all so badly executed.

I was always like "who likes? What's wrong with a properly directed and acted cutscene?". It was such a retarded design trend and brought about by some gamers always going "I SHOULD BE IN CONTROL AT ALL TIMES!!! WAY MORE IMMERSIVE!!!". Ugh.

 

[Slings and Arrows]

Resident Evil 4 is a black person killing simulator

 

[lock2k]

"I can only use asymmetric sticks"

As if your brain knows the difference in the very slight difference in angle/position when you are playing. This is pure fanboy drivel.

I agree. I can adjust to a different controller on the fly with no problem, any controller.

 

[GymWolf]

Free flow is ok-ish with numerous enemies but pretty shitty for boss battles (yes they are spectacular but from a gameplay point of view they are piss-poor)

also a game that choose for you what punch or kick or move by just pressing a button is not exactly what many people want from a combat system, it's not qte but it looks and sometimes feel likes something that was make to make the average player more good than it actually is with not much skill involved)

also, most the majority of games who use free flow are piss easy cakewalk even on the harder difficulty for people with good skill (not talking about champions, just good enough skills and experience)

spiderman, sleeping dogs, mordor saga, tsushima, some batmans games, etc. it's not always just the combat who makes these games easy but it's a pretty alarming constant...


but a shitload of people love this combat system, so i'm not gonna talk about it more than this, there are worse combat systems out there for sure.

I mean, frankly, the combat systems in stuff like sekiro or dmc 5 or monster hunter are vastly superior to any free flow combat system ever made, at least for skilled people.

 

[Krappadizzle]

Resident Evil 4 is a black person killing simulator

Resident Evil 4 is the Spanish person killing simulator.
Resident Evil 5 is the black person killing simulator.

 

[GymWolf]

Hate the term "artificial difficulty".

Most of the time it just means "I can't pass this section so the game must be cheating".The very few times which the term could have a point, it doesn't. There is nothing "natural" in a game.

Classic examples of "artificial difficulty":

An hard boss with more HP than it should makes the battle legit harder. The player will need more concentration to not drop the ball in the middle of the fight. With the HP bloat, perhaps the boss isn't as fun to face, but definitely is harder.

A RPG which the player feels there is too much grind is not artificial difficulty either. Perhaps the gameplay loop is not satisfying/don't have enough incentives for the player to grind, but the grind per se does not make the game harder.

Enemies having bullshit hitboxes for their moves, enemies trapassing walls with their weapons when you feel safe (because you know, you are behind a fucking wall\obstacle), shitty camera or shitty lock on, shitty cover system or shitty aim system and many many other are real and there is no other term to describe them if not artificial difficulty created by incompetence or lack of money\time\betatesting.

And i'm usually the guy who say "shit is too easy"...

 

[Three]

The main one that doesn't make sense to me is with people criticizing Uncharted/Nathan Drake who is supposedly a serial killer because he ends up killing a lot of people along the way.

1. He does not go looking for treasure because he likes to kill. He just ends up in situations where if he doesn't shoot first, he will get killed.
2. He's not just killing random people! He's not hunting people! lol
3. He was being chased by/competing with essentially pirates in the first game, some rogue army group in the second.....not exactly the type who wouldn't kill him. You can fault him for going after treasure and all but it's not like killing is his number one goal.

Some of the things that also bother me you have covered pretty much.

I think that whole thing started because a boss says it in uncharted 2 and it made people think. They reflected and thought well yeah he's a mass murderer.

Spoiler