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[jedimike]

Just saw today that Best Buy stores are supposed to pull HL2 off the shelves after they got the green light to sell a couple days ago. Then, VU wants them to be fucking investigators and spy on competitors to see if they are selling. In the meantime Valve refuses to green light steam. Couple this with the stolen files, FBI investigation, fan site fuckovers, and you got a prime example of a comedic disaster.

It's like watching a 3 stooges episode. Sell, No don't sell, sell, but don't play.

It would be like if Disney had The Incredibles at theaters and people in the audience, but they couldn't watch the movie because Pixar didn't authenticate it.

WTF? At least act like you should be a leader in this multi-billion dollar industry.

 

[MVS]

Would you rather have 7 dollars or 30 dollars?

 

[lexi]

VU is terrified of being sent into irrelevance. A golden age in gaming will ensue when Publishers are done away with. Steam, however, is not the answer.

 

[mrklaw]

VU is terrified of being sent into irrelevance. A golden age in gaming will ensue when Publishers are done away with. Steam, however, is not the answer.

And I'm sure normal 'non superstar' developers are really looking forward to raising $5m to finance their own games with no guarantee of recoupment.

I'm sure online distribution is a good idea, but we have shops for a reason.

 

[dark10x]

While I do agree with that, one thing is for certain...

Half-Life 2, the final game, could not be played prior to the official release date. All of the other recent "big" releases have made it out anywhere from one week early to an entire month. Valve managed to stop any pre-release piracy of their game. It WILL be pirated, of cousre, but at least it didn't occur prior to the street date.

 

[DJ Demon J]

While I do agree with that, one thing is for certain...

Half-Life 2, the final game, could not be played prior to the official release date. All of the other recent "big" releases have made it out anywhere from one week early to an entire month. Valve managed to stop any pre-release piracy of their game. It WILL be pirated, of cousre, but at least it didn't occur prior to the street date.

*ding ding ding*

 

[mrmyth]

I think VU is the biggest bitch in all of this. Valve would've greenlighted HL2 early if not for their lawsuit threats. Its like the Disney/Pixar situation - Valve is finding a way to reach their target audience without ol' Fanucci wetting his beak a little. Fanucci is understandably not impressed with this turn of events. I won't be surprised is all Valve products become download only.
In ten years you won't be able to buy a PC game in a B&M store unless its a burned copy.

 

[Vashu]

I think VU is the biggest bitch in all of this. Valve would've greenlighted HL2 early if not for their lawsuit threats. Its like the Disney/Pixar situation - Valve is finding a way to reach their target audience without ol' Fanucci wetting his beak a little. Fanucci is understandably not impressed with this turn of events. I won't be surprised is all Valve products become download only.
In ten years you won't be able to buy a PC game in a B&M store unless its a burned copy.

I certainly hope not! Call me old fashioned, but I prefer my games to be on a disc, with a manual, and in a nice looking box or DVD-case. Pop in the disc, and there you go... What if you had so many games in the future, and your HD is full. I'm not a person who wants to keep buying new HD's, or delete and redownload my games. And If I burn a disc, it would look ugly unless I create a cover for it myself, and I don't want to do all that hassle just because of some developers wanting to get rid of the publishers.

And another thing, what if they DID succeed and get rid of them. Good for them, but I don't see the price falling anytime after that, so I kinda want to keep them. The package just feels, more complete so to say....

 

[Duckhuntdog]

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! I gotta wait 24 more hours to play Half-Life 2. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! I want to hate on it now. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.

 

[Azih]

Actually I'm sure in any download only future developers would be more than happy to send you a nice DVD case and manual for 5 bucks plus S&H. Convinient for gamers, reasonable enough price, and a little extra source of revenue for the developer.

 

[Claus]

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! I gotta wait 24 more hours to play Half-Life 2. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! I want to hate on it now. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.

This sums it up nicely.

 

[rastex]

*ding ding ding*

So then what was that whole fiasco last year?

But that's just being anal. Kudos to Valve for not succumbing to the warez plague that's hit the 2 top games from before.

 

[jedimike]

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! I gotta wait 24 more hours to play Half-Life 2. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! I want to hate on it now. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.

You know what they say about assumptions... I'm not hating on HL2, nor am I buying it in the next 24 hours... probably not even the next 24 days. I'm laughing at these guys, along with the rest of the entertainment industry, for fubaring the launch and development of one of the biggest games of all time.

 

[Late Stage Marxist]

I think VU is the biggest bitch in all of this. Valve would've greenlighted HL2 early if not for their lawsuit threats. Its like the Disney/Pixar situation - Valve is finding a way to reach their target audience without ol' Fanucci wetting his beak a little. Fanucci is understandably not impressed with this turn of events. I won't be surprised is all Valve products become download only.
In ten years you won't be able to buy a PC game in a B&M store unless its a burned copy.

:lol Awesome. Just watched Part II last night.

 

[Ranger X]

Actually I'm sure in any download only future developers would be more than happy to send you a nice DVD case and manual for 5 bucks plus S&H. Convinient for gamers, reasonable enough price, and a little extra source of revenue for the developer.

nahh, they will put the price up what the crazy people outta are ready to pay.
It means your downloads will cost just like a retail game, and then you will pay some 10$ again for them to send you some box and booklet. You will also pay an account on their website to be able to download their games and you will also pay again when you want to play on their dedicated server. lol
This world is about screwing your neighbours isn't it?

 

[MetatronM]

While I do agree with that, one thing is for certain...

Half-Life 2, the final game, could not be played prior to the official release date. All of the other recent "big" releases have made it out anywhere from one week early to an entire month. Valve managed to stop any pre-release piracy of their game. It WILL be pirated, of cousre, but at least it didn't occur prior to the street date.

It was pirated over a year ago. And they blamed the fact that the game wasn't even close to done yet on that. :rolleyes

Why do people still defend this company? I mean, yeah, the game is sure to be great, but can't you guys admit that these guys are assholes?

 

[Cutley]

Why do people still defend this company? I mean, yeah, the game is sure to be great, but can't you guys admit that these guys are assholes

No, the guy who stole the source code is the asshole. Even if the game was finished it would have been delayed thanks to that wanker, and people who think that the version that was stolen was all that valve had arent to bright either. They showed videos at E3 that included alot more content than what was in the stolen version....but they were faked wernt they just like the moon landing, elvis's death, jfk assasination and michael jackson.

 

[Yusaku]

I'm sure Valve would love to have activated HL2 the second it went gold, but Vivendi wont let them.

 

[B-B-Bomba!]

Yeah, piracy. If the industry is immature, it's because it has grown in a way that reflects its market ...

 

[tenchir]

You guys also know what's so bad about this form of distribution? Don't expect to buy these games anywhere else cheap. If they just released it on Steam, then you can expect that Valve will let the price of HL2 stay at the 39.99, 49.99, 59.99, etc... price point for a long long time. With Gamestop and EB having physical copies, you will know their prices will drop.... some places like Walmart and Fry's might sell those games cheap at launch.... but not Steam.

 

[SKluck]

I highly doubt that. If anything prices would drop to reasonable amounts quicker because the dev is getting more of the money.

 

[MetatronM]

No, the guy who stole the source code is the asshole. Even if the game was finished it would have been delayed thanks to that wanker, and people who think that the version that was stolen was all that valve had arent to bright either. They showed videos at E3 that included alot more content than what was in the stolen version....but they were faked wernt they just like the moon landing, elvis's death, jfk assasination and michael jackson.

But it wasn't even close to being done. As if E3 demos are anything to go by. Nothing from Halo 2's E3 demo from TWO YEARS ago managed to make it into the game, after all, and MGS2's demos showed Snake in game sequences that he wasn't in, so that's hardly conclusive evidence to the contrary.

And they LIED ABOUT THE RELEASE DATE UNTIL THE WEEK BEFORE "RELEASE," even though everybody KNEW that it wasn't coming out (which, by the way, I can take full credit for revealing back in July of last year). And we KNEW because our retail headquarters had been notified MONTHS before Valve and/or Vivendi decided to make the announcement public. And I told everybody as such, and lots of people didn't listen. And Valve continued to lie right up until mid-September of last year. Why? I don't know why. I don't pretend to be Gabe Newell.

 

[tenchir]

I highly doubt that. If anything prices would drop to reasonable amounts quicker because the dev is getting more of the money.

So you are saying developers DON'T want to make more money???? Trust me on this, as long as the game sells well, they will want to make as much money as possible. What will Wario64 do now if more developers start using this form of distribution?

 

[Tenguman]

Eh it's a bumpy road when you start talking about developers bypassing publishers when it comes to releasing a game

Steams allows valve to deliver games without the need for a publisher. Their main publisher, vivendi, of course gets all riled up about this

Steam itself is shit, but the concept behind it I like. Give content back into the hands of the people who created it.

 

[Vieo]

I don't get it. Can someone explain the whole publisher thing to me and how Steam elminates the publisher?

What does the publisher do exactly? Market the game and get it put on store shelves? Couldn't a developer just make up it's own branch in the company to do the same thing?

EDIT: I better get answers or I'm making this a separate thread. :lol

 

[automagnus]

Too bad this is only for PC games. Publishers have been gutting some awesome Console games lately (the halo 2 Contraversy).

 

[vireland]

I don't get it. Can someone explain the whole publisher thing to me and how Steam elminates the publisher?

What does the publisher do exactly? Market the game and get it put on store shelves? Couldn't a developer just make up it's own branch in the company to do the same thing?

Publisher generally gives a developer an upfront royalty keyed to a minimum number of units they expect to sell, and when/if that is exceeded, they pay the developer for each unit over the minimum.

The Publisher is responsible for getting the game on shelves and advertised well. It's not as simple as just going to a store chain and saying "how much ya want?" There's a tremendous amount of competition for shelf space, and a publisher with an established and powerful sales network with good retail connections is quite valuable.

Of course, once a franchise is established and VERY successful (see: Half Life), the developer can cut better deals and just get a distributor only, or do it themselves (see:Star Wars/George Lucas). Steam appears to be Valve's attempt to have a direct sales relationship with gamers, cutting out publishers, distributors, AND retail by delivering the game straight to your home via the internet. It should result in lower prices because you're cutting out layers of distribution, but somehow I think the money gained isn't going back in our pockets, but rather Valve's.

 

[Mrbob]

I don't expect Steam to be the norm anytime soon. But this could be a viable option for developers who have a ton of money to invest in a project like this. Between the money Newell has from MS coupled with the money he earned from the 15 million plus copies of Half Life sold allows Valve to undertake such a project. Vivendi may get mad, but Valve paid for the development of Half Life 2 themselves, and Vivendi is only on to distribute the product. Smaller developers that don't have the luxary of sefl sustaining development with their own money will not have the luxary of using a service like Steam.

Is VU advertising Half Life 2 at all? I'm intersted in seeing if they are willing to dish out any extra cash for advertising purposes.

 

[Cutley]

But it wasn't even close to being done. As if E3 demos are anything to go by. Nothing from Halo 2's E3 demo from TWO YEARS ago managed to make it into the game, after all, and MGS2's demos showed Snake in game sequences that he wasn't in, so that's hardly conclusive evidence to the contrary

I never said the game was complete, obviously it wasnt, but the stolen version wasnt the latest build, not even close. The levels they showed were in the leak, just nowhere near as complete as what was shown at e3. I had the leak, i played it. I bet those levels will be in the final too. We will see in a few hours won't we. Unless your one of those strange people say they won't buy the game cuz valve lied about the release date a year ago.

 

[bobbyconover]

Valve managed to stop any pre-release piracy of their game.

Of course, the fact that they're being such bitches about the whole thing - and that their retail version of the game is nothing but a manual-less sleeved disc flopping around in an empty box that has to be internet activated to be used - just makes me want to pirate the game rather than buy it. Just to spite their smug price-inflating Steam-forcing asses. I'll still buy it, but I imagine it might have a similar effect on others out there who won't. The best way to spur on the pirates is to act like you've got them beat.

 

[Bog]

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! I gotta wait 24 more hours to play Half-Life 2. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! I want to hate on it now. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.

Is that your Artie Lange?

 

[dark10x]

It was pirated over a year ago. And they blamed the fact that the game wasn't even close to done yet on that. :rolleyes

Why do people still defend this company? I mean, yeah, the game is sure to be great, but can't you guys admit that these guys are assholes?

Whoa whoa whoa, I'm not defending the company. However, it is a fact that the final product was simply not pirated prior to the official date. It pretty much stands alone as the only major game release this fall that hasn't been released early. This may all seem like bullshit to you, but it did prevent an early leak.

Half-Life 2 was not pirated over a year ago. That was a work in progress and shouldn't even be considered a game. The method in which the game was stolen was beyond the norm and the content that WAS stolen wasn't worth anything to anyone actually interested in playing Half-Life 2...

I think you took the code theft thing the wrong way as well. They admitted that the game was NOT delayed to rewrite all of the code. When that WIP was stolen, however, it DID hurt the morale of the team (as expected) and seriously slowed down the progress of the game (which was already behind schedule).

I don't think they are assholes, though. I mean, I've received responses each time I've e-mailed Gabe about something related to the game and he has never come off as a prick.

 

[Mrbob]

Yeah, I think Gabe basically panicked last year because he knew the game was behind schedule. He knew the game wasn't going to be ready on September 30 so kept quiet till the very end. He knew it was all going to blow up in his face so it looked like he delayed the inevitable beating he was going to take (And still does). It wasn't necessarily the best method to handle things but you can't crucify the guy forever. Valve could have shipped an incomplete mess last year but they delayed the game to get it right.

 

[dark10x]

Yeah, I think Gabe basically panicked last year because he knew the game was behind schedule. He knew the game wasn't going to be ready on September 30 so kept quiet till the very end. He knew it was all going to blow up in his face so it looked like he delayed the inevitable beating he was going to take (And still does). It wasn't necessarily the best method to handle things but you can't crucify the guy forever. Valve could have shipped an incomplete mess last year but they delayed the game to get it right.

Yeah, I know what kind of situation he got into. I've done that plenty of times myself. Sometimes, when you don't want to deal with something, you just keep putting it off...until it's too late and you have to face the music.

I don't think they could have shipped and incomplete mess, though. The game was really just too far away from being finished. They wouldn't have even been able to ship a buggy version of the game as tons of content was just flat out missing...

 

[Argyle]

I still haven't figured out how I feel about the whole situation. I was totally excited for Half Life 2, but when the whole release date fiasco blew up in their face last year, I completely lost interest in the game and basically stopped paying attention.

Now my feelings are more like "whoah, it's nearly out?" and I did preload it off of Steam, but haven't bought it yet. I don't know how I feel about it. I mean, I like the idea of cutting out the publisher, if you can get away with it, I like the idea of the developer taking a bigger cut...

But damn, $50+ for a downloadable game? Thanks for passing on the savings there, Valve...and not only that, very few developers would be able to do what they are doing. It would be great if every developer could just cut out the publisher, but hey, while we're dreaming, I'd like a pony...

The code theft issue is another thing - realizing the E3 demo was nothing but smoke and mirrors (which, of course, all E3 demos are...) and although I didn't look at the code myself, I'm told the Source engine umm...well...isn't very good (more colorful words were used when I heard this )

 

[Cutley]

^^
Thats the stupidest thing ive read all day.

 

[jett]

I think VU is the biggest bitch in all of this. Valve would've greenlighted HL2 early if not for their lawsuit threats. Its like the Disney/Pixar situation - Valve is finding a way to reach their target audience without ol' Fanucci wetting his beak a little. Fanucci is understandably not impressed with this turn of events. I won't be surprised is all Valve products become download only.
In ten years you won't be able to buy a PC game in a B&M store unless its a burned copy.

:lol :lol :lol That Godfather bit was genius.

 

[dream]

But damn, $50+ for a downloadable game? Thanks for passing on the savings there, Valve

No shit. Especially considering how all we've heard for the past 10 years is "software piracy drives up game prices."

 

[Uncle Dukey]

As far as I'm concerned, the fact that they didn't break the release date doesn't matter anymore. I just ordered the game through Steam and I'll [hopefully] be playing tomorrow. No big deal that this wasn't happening two days earlier.

 

[Mr_Furious]

I like the idea of the developer taking a bigger cut...

Cut? In order for there to be a cut means there's more than one party involved. What Valve makes via Steam ALL goes to Valve. There's no manufacturing costs what so ever to even consider here and no Publisher to share the revenue with. That being said, I think Valve is taking advantage of their fans who will gladly pay full price for a data transfer. In this case, there's no real benefit to the consumer over buying retail* and Valve reaps all the rewards of their fanbase. I guess if it's there, why not exploit it, right? :-\

* I'm only talking about the Bronze package here because the other packages "extra value" argument is debatable

 

[Argyle]

^^
Thats the stupidest thing ive read all day.

Thanks for contributing your fanbo...er, wisdom to this thread!

Cut? In order for there to be a cut means there's more than one party involved. What Valve makes via Steam ALL goes to Valve. There's no manufacturing costs what so ever to even consider here and no Publisher to share the revenue with. That being said, I think Valve is taking advantage of their fans who will gladly pay full price for a data transfer. In this case, there's no real benefit to the consumer over buying retail* and Valve reaps all the rewards of their fanbase. I guess if it's there, why not exploit it, right? :-\

Now, don't get me wrong, I've been on the wrong end of the developer-publisher fight before, and it ain't pretty...I'm sure every developer in the world would love to keep 100% of the profit...but I wonder, did Vivendi pay for any of the development of Half Life 2? It would really suck for them if they did pay an advance for the development costs but not make any money off the downloadable version...

I dunno. For me, I think Half Life 2 is worth maybe $30 as a download, maybe $50 as a "works out of the box no authentication bullshit, with a fucking printed manual" purchase, so maybe I'll just uninstall Steam until the price drops Too many games to play this week...

 

[Coop]

No Valve paid for the WHOLE development.. and they can't sell lower than 49.99 because of VU