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[prag16]

At the end of the day, the argument of it being fraud or theft only applies to the person creating the listing. At the end of the day, even if you felt there was something dodgy about it, if you just saw the listing and thought "sure why not try" and was successful, I don't see why that is any different from taking advantage of a pricing glitch.

You argued earlier that this is nothing like "pirating" games, and that "pirating" games is much much worse. However the argument you use now is almost identical to the argument people use to justify pirating games/movies/music.

The claim being only the person who cracked/uploaded/shared the content is in the wrong. You're saying in this case only the person who posted the fake listing. And NOT the people who realized it was a bullshit listing, printed it out, then in bad faith went to a store to try to convince an unsuspecting checkout clerk to price match. I mean, are you hearing yourself? (It also follows that the guy exploiting the Sears glitch to try to pillage another retailer's price match policy is in the wrong just as much as the guy who printed out the fake amazon listing.)

I could actually take it a step further and argue that this is much worse than "pirating" games, because in a large percentage (probably the majority) of cases, a pirated game is not a lost sale, and is rather someone who wouldn't have bought the game in the first place. They just have a copy, and aren't removing the original.

In THIS case, people are removing the original PS4 at an 80% discount. And doing so, in the vast majority of cases, in bad faith. Your argument holds no water. Before you say "one is illegal and the other isn't"... legality wasn't the original question here. It was morality/ethics.

I don't see any ethical difference. You can do whatever mental gymnastics you need to do in order to not feel like a bad person, but you took advantage of a mistake to buy something at an artificially low price.

Agree.

If a consumer doesn't realize that it is a fraudulent listing, and acts in good faith to get the deal, and Walmart agrees, then the transaction isn't unethical.

However, as many people posting the tweets, and even people discussing here know that the listing is fraudulent, and know that this is a scam... they cannot be acting in good faith to make that exchange and it is therefore unethical and potentially illegal.

Exactly.

 

[Kimosabae]

the corporate sympathy on display in this thread is appalling

 

[duessano]

Stealing is stealing, no matter who you're stealing from.

If you get robbed by a very poor or homeless person, don't even try going to the police or even complaining, because you're rich to his perspective, is that correct?

If the rich person got rich by stealing, then no it isn't stealing, it's robin hoodry.

 

[prag16]

the corporate sympathy on display in this thread is appalling

You haven't been reading the thread.

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

best buy already removed their price matching policy once because of shit like this, hopefully it doesnt happen again. I doubt they will though, BBY is pretty vigilant about how they price match online.

Its the only reason I ever shop brick and mortar now though, bought a TV at best buy because I could get it same day price matched the $40 off it was at amazon.

Bought modem+router at best buy as well, had to price match that to get $10 off...price matching best buy to bestbuy.com was frustrating, but they did it.

 

[Bsigg12]

best buy already removed their price matching policy once because of shit like this, hopefully it doesnt happen again. I doubt they will though, BBY is pretty vigilant about how they price match online.

Its the only reason I ever shop brick and mortar now though, bought a TV at best buy because I could get it same day price matched the $40 off it was at amazon.

Bought modem+router at best buy as well, had to price match that to get $10 off...price matching best buy to bestbuy.com was frustrating, but they did it.

All they need to do is get rid of matching the Amazon Marketplace. It's causing the issue.

 

[UncleCross]

Of course, but if that listing is indeed fraudulent, those people who were bragging about abusing a great policy that Walmart exercises should get some kind of punishment.
.

So you think a customer deserves punishment for getting a price match on a product that they thought was a great deal and then bragging about said deal, whether or not you have any actual knowledge that they knew the Amazon price wasn't correct? You can't be serious.

 

[Mr. RPG]

All they need to do is get rid of matching the Amazon Marketplace. It's causing the issue.

I agree. They should only price match items sold and shipped by Amazon.

 

[cRIPticon]

the corporate sympathy on display in this thread is appalling

It is NOT corporate sympathy. Not in the SLIGHTEST.

It is about painting an unethical act as ethical. At least for me it is. If you knowingly defraud someone, multi-billion dollar multi-national or your neighbor, it's still fraud.

If you are ok with that, then that is on you. No problem. But don't try to justify it because you hate the company..

 

[Cornbread78]

Won't someone please think of Wal-Mart! It's the holidays and it would be nice if they could actually prepare a nice hot meal for their family this season.

The affects the store-level employees more than the upper corporate staff. So yeah, FUCK THOSE STORE-LEVEL PLEBIENS...MY CHEAP PS4 IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THEIR BONUSES THAT MIGHT DICTATE WHETHER THEIR CHILDREN HAVE AN OK CHRISTMAS OR NOT.

If I were a WalMart manager, I would take one look at this, say NOPE and be on my way.

People on here didn't take long to work out that the listing wasn't sold by Amazon itself so I have no sympathy for Wal-Mart. I have huge admiration for all those who managed to get this deal. Bravo to you all!

A "moron" who gets paid minimum wage and has their hours constantly changed/shortened with no benefits.

Wal-Mart treats their employees horribly, they should expect horrible performance.

I'm sure a walmart exec is crying from their yacht.

the corporate sympathy on display in this thread is appalling

Yeah, well, this affects the base employees profit sharing and not the store manager and/or corporate execs at Wal-Mart since each store has their own base metrics that must be met in order for the employees to see any profit sharing quarterly.

This type of stuff, damage to the property both inside and outside the building and theft directly affect the base employees profit sharing, so yeah, 1 system isn't going to make a huge impact, but on the whole this hurts the base employees, because they are supossed to know better than to get scammed into price matching fake Amazon ads and sometimes the managers are going to approve it because the customer is #1 ya know...Stupid Wal-Mart people getting screwed by being nice....

 

[Hatchtag]

it's actually about ethics in bargain hunting

 

[Omega]

the corporate sympathy on display in this thread is appalling

the only thing that can come out of this is stricter policies. No more price matching maybe?

But hey they make big bucks and it's always the little guy vs the big guy so talk shit about the big guy even if you don't benefit from it

I'm sure the scammers with their $50 PS4s will be happy you fought for their "honor" while you get fucked over by stricter policies.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

I really hope this doesn't skew November NPD results.

 

[ReturnOfTheRAT]

Sleep well at night peeps.

 

[properpropaganda]

Pretty soon, Walmart and Best Buy are going to start hiring people to troll GAF, SlickDeals, and CAG and make sure which deals are legit. lol

i'm already here. mwahahahahaha!

 

[UncleCross]

Stealing is stealing, no matter who you're stealing from.

If you get robbed by a very poor or homeless person, don't even try going to the police or even complaining, because you're rich to his perspective, is that correct?

I must have missed the part of the story where someone stole something. The only thing I saw was customers asking for price matches and the store agreeing to match the price. No theft, just money in exchange for goods.

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

I must have missed the part of the story where someone stole something. The only thing I saw was customers asking for price matches and the store agreeing to match the price. No theft, just money in exchange for goods.

as ethical as freemium games

 

[Bubbavelli]

it's actually about ethics in bargain hunting

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

You argued earlier that this is nothing like "pirating" games, and that "pirating" games is much much worse. However the argument you use now is almost identical to the argument people use to justify pirating games/movies/music.

The claim being only the person who cracked/uploaded/shared the content is in the wrong. In this case only the person who posted the fake listing. And NOT the people who realized it was a bullshit listing, printed it out, then in bad faith went to a store to try to convince an unsuspecting checkout clerk to price match. I mean, are you hearing yourself? (It also follow that the guy exploiting the Sears glitch to try to pillage another retailer's price match policy is in the wrong just as much as the guy who printed out the fake amazon listing.)

I could actually take it a step further and argue that this is much worse than "pirating" games, because in a large percentage (probably the majority) of cases, a pirated game is not a lost sale, and is rather someone who wouldn't have bought the game in the first place. They just have a copy, and aren't removing the original.

In THIS case, people are removing the original PS4 at an 80% discount. And doing so, in the vast majority of cases, in bad faith. Your argument holds no water. Before you say "one is illegal and the other isn't"... legality wasn't the original question here. It was morality/ethics.



Agree.



Exactly.

I never said pirating games is worse. Its simply not similar enough to compare. What it is similar to is taking advantage of price glitches, and no I dont see how its worst than that at all.

Someone copying a cracked game is not even close to the same thing as someone trying their luck with a deal. Beyond anything else, they have to have the complaince of Walmart and its employees before they can do anything.

I just cannot accept that asking for something to be sold below market value and having a seller agree, regardless of whether the seller has made the proper checks and balances can be seen as immoral.

The proper checks and balances were not done by these employees. Thats as simple as it gets. There is no morality in an asking, even if it is store policy the associate still could of turned the buyers away, which clearly the majority did.

 

[CaptainMellow]

good on em, its probably worth $50 anyway

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

I really hope this doesn't skew November NPD results.

I very very much doubt more than a handfull of people took advantage of this.

What is interesting though is the PS4 has zoomed back up to 6th place on amazon. I guess the increased interest in the amazon page prompted some to jump in at full price.

Doesnt mean anything in the longer term picture but it is a bit funny.

 

[Cornbread78]

the only thing that can come out of this is stricter policies. No more price matching maybe?

But hey they make big bucks and it's always the little guy vs the big guy so talk shit about the big guy even if you don't benefit from it

I'm sure the scammers with their $50 PS4s will be happy you fought for their "honor" while you get fucked over by stricter policies.

And yes, this will be the outcome soon, especially that this one is being bragged about in the media... Wal-Mart will jsut go back to not even price matching their own website..

 

[Costia]

I think it might be even illegal. It can be considered as a fraud.
The stores agree to price match legitimate sales/listing from other stores.
If you know a certain listing is fake (for example by setting it up yourself) then you are lying to the store for personal monetary benefit (a price reduction) and this can be considered as a fraud.

Edit: just to be clear. I still think it is unethical. I mean, you know you are lying to the store about the ps4 price. You know that it isn't actually being sold for such a low price , and still ask the store to price match it as if it were a legitimate listing. You might as well publish a fake ad saying you are giving away free PS4s and the ask them to price match it. My guess is that the only reason it worked was because the fake listing was posted on amazon which is generally considered reliable.

 

[cRIPticon]

I must have missed the part of the story where someone stole something. The only thing I saw was customers asking for price matches and the store agreeing to match the price. No theft, just money in exchange for goods.

For legitimate price matching, no thievery is taking place (Sears falls in this camp, even if the people asking for the match knew it was probably a mistake. And one that could be clarified by contacting Sears).

For price matching against a knowingly fraudulent listing, created for the sole purpose of perpetrating this scam? That thievery. If caught, the company could press charges.

 

[Shig]

Well, Wal Mart is making the choice to punish the Grandmas as opposed to taking a hit themselves.

The same could be said of a consumer knowingly tricking a retailer into giving them products at drastically reduced prices. Instead of paying fair market value, they're choosing to punish someone. But if it's many someones under a multinational corporation, it doesn't count, I guess?

I'm not going to excuse Walmart's shitty treatment of employees, but hurting the business isn't going to make them reconsider those policies, it's only going to make them turn the screws more. Supporting actions that are assuredly going to validate and accelerate the downward spiral of retail employment quality is a rather weird way to express solidarity and concern for the shoddy treatment of retail employees.

 

[Snkfanatic]

it's actually about ethics in bargain hunting

Ok this is pretty good.

 

[DoktorEvil]

So you think a customer deserves punishment for getting a price match on a product that they thought was a great deal and then bragging about said deal, whether or not you have any actual knowledge that they knew the Amazon price wasn't correct? You can't be serious.

So pricing a Wii U at 60 dollars is a fair price? Or pricing a PS4 at 80 dollars is a fair deal? Yes, I find issue with people abusing a system that is designed to attract good customer relationships and goodwill. Walmart inc. will now have to reconsider scrapping the price match idea or severely restrict it.

At the end of the day, the only person affected by this is the employee who had to adhere to corporate policy and who couldn't lie to the customer to avoid giving that person that specific price. They will either be fired or reprimanded by a customer's lie if too many of these transactions took place. The person who bought at 60 or 80 isn't affected.

But my ethics are not your ethics. I have a problem with defrauding anyone. You apparently don't.

 

[Squishy3]

I must have missed the part of the story where someone stole something. The only thing I saw was customers asking for price matches and the store agreeing to match the price. No theft, just money in exchange for goods.

There's a difference between getting Walmart to price match an error on a Sears website and someone setting up a fake retailer page on Amazon promising to sell PS4s at $89.99 to get Walmart to price match. But congratulations, everyone who did this is going to make Walmart crack down on price matching.

They're both questionable uses of the price matching system, but one is ultimately way more nefarious than the other.

 

[ScriptedReality]

Crips love them some PS4

Same colors and everything....

Just waiting for the food stamp and fried chicken references.

Lol I'm telling you man. Sometimes the veils slide off. Can't even cover it.

 

[GioG]

I've worked at Walmart; their price matching is somewhat odd in that the proof needed to do the exchange is fairly low. I'm not surprised that someone was able to do this.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

Lol I'm telling you man. Sometimes the veils slide off. Can't even cover it.

Be a member here long enough and you see it all the time. I just find it funny.

 

[Bsigg12]

I've worked at Walmart; their price matching is somewhat odd in that the proof needed to do the exchange is fairly low. I'm not surprised that someone was able to do this.

And it changed last week to include more than just the ad of another store which is awesome but obviously easily abused.

 

[Nafai1123]

It's hard to empathize with a company that uses an average of 1 million tax dollars per store in public assistance for it's criminally underpaid employees.

 

[entremet]

This is Walmart's fault, which I won't shed tears for.

 

[Hero Prinny]

I wish it was not real....

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickung...ing-charity-food-drive-for-its-own-employees/

that's why f**k wal-mart.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/18/walmart-food-drive_n_4296618.html Totally real.

Jesus that's insane

 

[uncleniccius]

People doing it for a cheap console are OK but still should be more aware that its dodgy.

People doing it to resell are complete arses.

 

[ScriptedReality]

Be a member here long enough and you see it all the time. I just find it funny.

I caught wind of it when I first got accepted here. Almost snapped at someone until I saw another post where they were describing the types of people that are here.. Then I just started seeing it for what it is. I come here for video games.
*shrug*

 

[Astral]

Here's a legitimate, ethical $35 PS+ deal all can take advantage of. VisaCheckout is free to sign up for, no fees or anything like that and you can use non-Visa cards with it.

Has anyone tried this? I'm too lazy to sign up for whatever VisaCheckout is. And why is it sent in the mail? Can't they just give you a code?

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

I caught wind of it when I first got accepted here. Almost snapped at someone until I saw another post where they were describing the types of people that are here.. Then I just started seeing it for what it is. I come here for video games.
*shrug*

Yeah. Take this place with a pinch of salt dude.

 

[Pilgor]

Damn definitely unethical but not illegal.

This is definitely illegal.

 

[Psychological Intellect]

Wish i could've taken advantage of that.

 

[ryan299]

If i go to walmart will this work?

 

[FantasticMrFoxdie]

certified scumbags.

Yeah WalMart is pretty bad.

 

[Anion]

Man this is just super slimy. When Walmart excludes video games from their price match policy, don't complain

 

[Vilam]

Stop overreacting - price match isn't going away because people got one over on Walmart for a few PS4s. Stuff like this happens all the time.

 

[StoopKid]

This is Walmart's fault, which I won't shed tears for.

Lol this.

 

[duessano]

This is definitely illegal.

How is it illegal. Wal-Mart sold it at that price according to the receipt. Wal-Mart was not forced to sell it.

But do explain. How heavy is that water you are carrying?

 

[Tidus_Great]

maybe they can pay workers lower wages to compensate?

 

[Vestal]

This is definitely illegal.

How though?

If I go to amazon and see something for 70% off for x/y/z reason and simply don't wish to wait for it, Ill go to a walmart/bestbuy/target etc and price match for said item. If its a miss print or a hoax, its none of my business as a consumer to protect the rights of a business, that responsibility falls in the lap of the store managers who have final say on this type of transaction.

 

[Ramma2]

How is it illegal. Wal-Mart sold it at that price according to the receipt. Wal-Mart was not forced to sell it.

But do explain. How heavy is that water you are carrying?

It is illegal because they are using false information to get another person to act. Just like if I walked into a bank, said I was J D Rockefeller and needed a million dollars. Just because they willingly give me the money doesn't mean that what I did was legal.