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[BlackLagoon]

What people are primarily complaining about here is pricing. But Destiny is B2P with paid Dlc while Warframe was a Founder Pack Beta period into a F2P launch with microtransanctions. Different positives and negatives to each.

Don't think that's a fair comparison. You still get way more for far less money in Warframe. And the money Founders Pack was crucial for making the game happen. DE was on the verge of bankruptcy at the time, and Warframe was basically a last ditch attempt at saving the company. The Founders became part of the community design council and helped shape aspects of the game - like the free to play policy. Not limiting significant game content behind paywalls was actually early encouragement from the founders, who didn't want their more frugal friends to be locked out of stuff.

For those who are genuinely interested, DE actually talked quite a bit about how Warframe ended up the way it did in the PlayStation Experience Free to Play panel last year.

 

[thedan001]

Warframe wins for me

A lot of people aren't realizing that you can earn free money by selling stuff you earn for platinum if you actually play, which unlocks slots and upgrades you need without actually paying for them

Bungie/Activision spent millions into Destiny and the gameplay is great but mediocre overall. DE has been trying their best to be transparent with their development and still makes a good game for free without shady practices. Their F2P model is only there if you want to pay, it's not even needed

In contrast with Bungie (Moreso Activision likely) trying to hoard monies before we can play new content, I'm finished

Warframe is easier getting groups together because of the text based chat over destiny's forced voice chat
I'm deaf so that's a big deal breaker so call me biased

 

[Raonak]

Warframe may have microtransactions, but you tend to get a lot more content for what you pay for. With destiny you're paying a large price for fuck all content on top of a full priced game that was already very slim on content.

 

[Jest Chillin]

I am just going to take this out of context. But considering what was gutted and vanilla on day one, there is no way it could have not have gotten better. But you are correct, it did

"Considering what was gutted" I don't buy into that at all. Tons of games leave or change content during development and many games that use worlds in a similar way to Destiny have geometry laid out that's blocked before the actual content is done.

But the improvements I refer to were in direct response to the community.

Definitely.

At no small expense, though. Right now its a $100 game.

For some, sure. Even more expensive for others. But too many people throw around dollar amounts without acknowledging that value is subjective. I paid something like $110 for Destiny. I've found it worth the money. I spent like $10 bucks on Warframe which I subsequently feel wasn't worth the value. Some will feel the same, some different. But personal value isn't an objective debate point.

Edit:

Don't think that's a fair comparison. You still get way more for far less money in Warframe. And the money Founders Pack was crucial for making the game happen. DE was on the verge of bankruptcy at the time, and Warframe was basically a last ditch attempt at saving the company. The Founders became part of the community design council and helped shape aspects of the game - like the free to play policy. Not limiting significant game content behind paywalls was actually early encouragement from the founders, who didn't want their more frugal friends to be locked out of stuff.

For those who are genuinely interested, DE actually talked quite a bit about how Warframe ended up the way it did in the PlayStation Experience Free to Play panel last year.

Way more for less money is kind of weird thing for F2P with Microtransactions when those Microtransactions are not all cosmetic. I mean, there's an avenue to get the vast majority of the content without spending money but that takes a considerable time investment or some good luck. It's a trade off, as it should be really. But in terms of the comparison with Founders Packs.. I think it's a fair one to make because in both situations the Investors (Founders for Warframe, Activision for Bungie) financed the game and they influence the monetization of the game.

And I think it's fair to say Activision has influenced the monetization because prior to this, with a different Publisher, Bungie games didn't have this style of monetization while Activision has a history of doing these kinds of things (CoD and even WoW after the Blizzard merger).

 

[Einbroch]

Warframe does F2P right.

Off topic, but does this game have an end-game yet or is it still Diablo?

 

[Synth]

For some, sure. Even more expensive for others. But too many people throw around dollar amounts without acknowledging that value is subjective. I paid something like $110 for Destiny. I've found it worth the money. I spent like $10 bucks on Warframe which I subsequently feel wasn't worth the value. Some will feel the same, some different. But personal value isn't an objective debate point.

If you didn't buy the DLC though, Destiny is not a better game today, than it was before. If anything it's worse because activities that you could do reliably at launch (bounties, dailies, weeklies, etc) will now often not be available to you.

 

[Glitchesarecool]

Off topic, but does this game have an end-game yet or is it still Diablo?

There's actually a really hard raid and a "nightmare" level of a raid. So I guess that's technically endgame? Better than the nothing it used to have.

 

[Einbroch]

There's actually a really hard raid and a "nightmare" level of a raid. So I guess that's technically endgame? Better than the nothing it used to have.

Oh nice. I just remember it having literally nothing like two years ago. Might try it again.

 

[Arrage]

Too bad that after 71m investment from chinese they still run the game without servers.

GL playing PVP on someone's laggy connection and pray that they don't leave because there is no host migration.

 

[Glitchesarecool]

Oh nice. I just remember it having literally nothing like two years ago. Might try it again.

Oh wow, it's such a radically different game from back then.

 

[Hollow]

Oh nice. I just remember it having literally nothing like two years ago. Might try it again.

Wow.

So much has changed since then.

 

[Jest Chillin]

If you didn't buy the DLC though, Destiny is not a better game today, than it was before. If anything it's worse because activities that you could do reliably at launch (bounties, dailies, weeklies, etc) will now often not be available to you.

This is par for the course with anything that is B2P with Expansions. The same exact thing is happening with GW2 (even down to editions of the new expansion forcing players to get another copy of the base game). I'd argue this is why they called the DLC expansions in the first place. To send that message to consumers.

 

[NullPointer]

For some, sure. Even more expensive for others. But too many people throw around dollar amounts without acknowledging that value is subjective. I paid something like $110 for Destiny. I've found it worth the money. I spent like $10 bucks on Warframe which I subsequently feel wasn't worth the value. Some will feel the same, some different. But personal value isn't an objective debate point.

Destiny has a price/content problem, and while value is subjective its been a common through-line of criticism since launch and in reviews. Its what makes $20 expansions, Red Bull quests, crappy 1:1 pricing in different territories, buy-the-entire-game-again-for-specialty-items, and the resultant apologetic $20 solution into the issues they are - and produce the very opportunities for people to throw tomatoes at em from multiple avenues. That's why a free to play game releasing some more free content becomes headline-worthy.

Value is subjective, but you can still price things at a level that brings heightened expectations and criticism your way.

 

[ShinMaruku]

Everything they've added to the game has been free. And there's a LOT.

A comparison of Warframe's support to any AAA game is an embarrassment for the AAA side of things. And in game systems and depth and content and replayability and customization and end-game there is far, far more to find and do in Warframe than in its competition. Its just not even close.

Yup. Warframe is f2p done right. Also how that game changed, Destiny could be in a great place too IF Bungie gets their heads out there ass.

Spoiler

Destiny 2 folks Destiny 1 is unsalvagable

 

[BPoole]

Has DE changed the microtransaction model in Warframe in the past few months? A lot of people are shitting on them, but I thought it was fair back when I played it

 

[Glitchesarecool]

Has DE changed the microtransaction model in Warframe in the past few months? A lot of people are shitting on them, but I thought it was fair back when I played it

No, it's still the same.

 

[Synth]

This is par for the course with anything that is B2P with Expansions. The same exact thing is happening with GW2 (even down to editions of the new expansion forcing players to get another copy of the base game). I'd argue this is why they called the DLC expansions in the first place. To send that message to consumers.

Sure, but then NullPointer is correct that the game has gotten worse not better.. unless you've paid a sizeable amount of extra money on top, to flesh the game out to the sort of standard it really should have released in to begin with.

 

[Master Yoshi]

SHUT UP AND.. don't take my money??

 

[Jest Chillin]

Destiny has a price/content problem, and while value is subjective its been a common through-line of criticism since launch and in reviews. Its what makes $20 expansions, Red Bull quests, crappy 1:1 pricing in different territories, buy-the-entire-game-again-for-specialty-items, and the resultant apologetic $20 solution into the issues they are - and produce the very opportunities for people to throw tomatoes at em from multiple avenues. That's why a free to play game releasing some more free content becomes headline-worthy.

Value is subjective, but you can still price things at a level that brings heightened expectations and criticism your way.

I feel like Destiny's being criticized as harshly as it is for two reasons primarily. It's a huge name and people had such a strong backlash to it after launch (whether it was warranted or not) that everything it has done since has been viewed under a microscope. and the level of reaction is magnified because of that.

I mean take the TKK packages reaction and compare it to the reaction for the exact same package structuring that Anet has given with GW2's expansion and notice that while they both received backlash.. Destiny is much larger. The 1:1 pricing, for example, is a problem in many countries for many games. It's not exclusively a Destiny problem at all.. but it gets more focus because people are already upset. Red Bull quests is stupid but is it really as bad as it's portrayed?

I'm not saying that Destiny is a perfect game or that none of the complaints are warranted. However the extent of the negative reaction is excessive and a good deal of it isn't in a constructive vein in an attempt to force change.

Sure, but then NullPointer is correct that the game has gotten worse not better.. unless you've paid a sizeable amount of extra money on top, to flesh the game out to the sort of standard it really should have released in to begin with.

Well it wasn't NullPointer that said that to begin with but that still doesn't make the game worse. In games with Expansions what was once "endgame" becomes largely obsolete as it no longer provides value for effort and as a result people stop running it in favor of the new content. For players who don't buy the expansion... they miss out on the new stuff and have their ability to do the old stuff largely hindered. Destiny is somewhat similar but with Destiny, the old content doesn't become nearly as useless (as it still has a chance to rewards relevant weapons and gear) and the other activities are only unavailable to Base Game Only players part of the time. In that sense it's slightly better than most B2P games that have expansions. The idea that it's functionally worse only applies to those who have decided that the base game didn't have enough content to begin with, which really is a subjective thing.

 

[Nordicus]

Oh nice. I just remember it having literally nothing like two years ago. Might try it again.

Oh wow, it's such a radically different game from back then.

Indeed it is.

http://fat.gfycat.com/ObviousHauntingDachshund.webm

 

[Remark]

Man I've been trying to get into Warframe for the longest but I just can't do it. It don't click with me man.

I got to like rank 4 and just gave up :L

 

[NullPointer]

... everything it has done since has been viewed under a microscope. and the level of reaction is magnified because of that.

It made some very ambitious boasts, and its DLC commands the highest pricepoints on the market. So sure, its getting extra special examination over everything it does, because it still has that price/content issue. If the game was swimming in content the Red Bull thing wouldn't be nearly as rancorous a story - it'd still be a story tho.

If they had better set expectations and maybe targeted some lower price points or more realistic DLC schedules they'd have been able to weather these storms better if not avoided the worst of them outright.

Indeed it is.

Hnnnnngggh

 

[Omega]

Free to play with lots of grinding and microtransactions. I'd rather play Destiny, especially after House of Wolves.

Pay to play with lots of grinding > free to play with lots of grinding?

 

[Glitchesarecool]

Indeed it is.

http://fat.gfycat.com/ObviousHauntingDachshund.webm

New parkour system, from today's devstream.

https://gfycat.com/EsteemedRingedGreathornedowl

And uh... If you remember the J3 Golem, he's gone through some changes.

https://gfycat.com/RectangularLoneGalah

 

[Rembrandt]

I was only poking fun. It actually made me lol when i read it <3

<3

New parkour system, from today's devstream.

https://gfycat.com/EsteemedRingedGreathornedowl

And uh... If you remember the J3 Golem, he's gone through some changes.

https://gfycat.com/RectangularLoneGalah

that actually looks pretty good; not 100% fluid, but a lot better than before. this game gets a lot of praise for its continuous updates so I think its time for me to boot it up again soon and give it another shot.

 

[Jest Chillin]

It made some very ambitious boasts, and its DLC commands the highest pricepoints on the market. So sure, its getting extra special examination over everything it does, because it still has that price/content issue. If the game was swimming in content the Red Bull thing wouldn't be nearly as rancorous a story - it'd still be a story tho.

If they had better set expectations and maybe targeted some lower price points or more realistic DLC schedules they'd have been able to weather these storms better if not avoided the worst of them outright.

I think the pricepoint is comparative to the closest comp, which would be Console FPS Map Packs. Destiny offers the same or more maps, weapons, gear, and more PvE content (which would be like a standard FPS offering addition campaign content). It's higher than a standard map pack but not by much and it offers more content for the increased price.

 

[NullPointer]

I think the pricepoint is comparative to the closest comp, which would be Console FPS Map Packs. Destiny offers the same or more maps, weapons, gear, and more PvE content (which would be like a standard FPS offering addition campaign content). It's higher than a standard map pack but not by much and it offers more content for the increased price.

This is kind of a sleight-of-hand move though. COD players not interested in multiplayer don't need to buy those packs. Destiny PvE players do. Similarly, Destiny's PvP-only crowd doesn't necessarily want that PvE stuff. Its a Cable TV-esque bundle price.

Basically PvE players will have a different sense of the value there as PvP players and those who go value both modes.

 

[Synth]

This is kind of a sleight-of-hand move though. COD players not interested in multiplayer don't need to buy those packs. Destiny PvE players do. Similarly, Destiny's PvP-only crowd doesn't necessarily want that PvE stuff. Its a Cable TV-esque bundle price.

Yup, and there's still the "initial content" factor too. How many multiplayer maps does CoD have out of the box? How much does Halo?

Meanwhile Destiny had 10.

 

[ShinMaruku]

I think the pricepoint is comparative to the closest comp, which would be Console FPS Map Packs. Destiny offers the same or more maps, weapons, gear, and more PvE content (which would be like a standard FPS offering addition campaign content). It's higher than a standard map pack but not by much and it offers more content for the increased price.

FPS map packs can't be compared to Destiny's dlcs. First off map packs are mostly for the multiplayer component which is always competetive which makes how the content devoured different. Also those games don't use the highly problemiatic mmo compulsion loop. There are different perceptions on these things. Now add that to an already negative light around the game and terrible expecation management by Bungie.

Spoiler

Which is why I lay 80% of the blame on them not Activsion

 

[meppi]

Well I for one will be boycotting this vile developer from now on! Who's with me?!




/s (just to be clear)

 

[Jest Chillin]

This is kind of a sleight-of-hand move though. COD players not interested in multiplayer don't need to buy those packs. Destiny PvE players do. Similarly, Destiny's PvP-only crowd doesn't necessarily want that PvE stuff. Its a Cable TV-esque bundle price.

Basically PvE players will have a different sense of the value there as PvP players and those who go value both modes.

Destiny PvE players get more content hours than an average FPS Campaign player does in the base game as well and typically those types of players don't even have the option to buy more of their preferred content. So it's a personal value proposition like every DLC is

 

[Nordicus]

New parkour system, from today's devstream.

https://fat.gfycat.com/EsteemedRingedGreathornedowl.webm

The lines between Warframe and Blade Symphony just keep coincidentally blurring

 

[Pestilence11]

Title read like a Facebook ad.

"Developers hate them!"

 

[Synth]

Destiny PvE players get more content hours than an average FPS Campaign player does in the base game as well and typically those types of players don't even have the option to buy more of their preferred content. So it's a personal value proposition like every DLC is

I disgree with this actually. Destiny players typically play the content for more hours... but I don't think Destiny actually has more campaign content then most standard FPS games.

The main difference is that you don't re-run previous content in most games to make the next content beatable. It's like Phantasy Star Online. How much content does that game really have... ignore how many hours it takes to actually get through it.

 

[Steel]

Way more for less money is kind of weird thing for F2P with Microtransactions when those Microtransactions are not all cosmetic. I mean, there's an avenue to get the vast majority of the content without spending money but that takes a considerable time investment or some good luck. It's

That sounds like getting anything in Destiny. And to be clear, you're not relying on RNG for the majority of loot in Warframe. You do a mission, you get mats, you use the mats on a blueprint. It's pretty non-luck based actually. Personally I found the grind in Destiny far worse than the grind in warframe.

 

[NullPointer]

I disgree with this actually. Destiny players typically play the content for more hours... but I don't think Destiny actually has more campaign content then most standard FPS games.

The main difference is that you don't re-run previous content in most games to make the next content beatable.

And that's the other sleight-of-hand part. The grind in Destiny has you re-running the same small set of missions dozens of times over because progress is locked behind RNG and long rep grinds.

In Warframe the missions are dynamically generated so as DE adds new enemies and tilesets and implements new systems the entire game benefits, no matter what activity the players engage in. Its a smarter system to reuse existing assets while keeping things fresh for the players. Diablo: RoS does this too with its Adventure Mode and Nephalim/Greater Rifts. It works. You get way more bang for the buck, and those updates for both games have been free ta boot.

 

[ZangBa]

One thing that really bothers me about Destiny is the speed they churn these expansions out. I'm accustomed to expansions taking a longer amount of time to release, with content that lasts a lot longer to justify making past content irrelevant. There is nothing anyone can do to convince me those last 2 expansions were worth it, and because of that, I'll be locked out of the majority of the content. I'm all right with that in any other game, but didn't the first expansion release only a few months after launch? I know the game was starving for content, but it shouldn't trivialize the things you worked for so quickly.

 

[Jest Chillin]

FPS map packs can't be compared to Destiny's dlcs. First off map packs are mostly for the multiplayer component which is always competetive which makes how the content devoured different. Also those games don't use the highly problemiatic mmo compulsion loop. There are different perceptions on these things. Now add that to an already negative light around the game and terrible expecation management by Bungie.

Spoiler

Which is why I lay 80% of the blame on them not Activsion

Destiny's DLC's offer the same or more maps as standard FPS DLC, as well as weapons and gear. MP is not always competitive (BF4), and the moment that FPS games added levels and unlocks it became a different flavor of the same "compulshion loop" as players are "grinding" MP matches for XP to reach the next level/unlock.

I disgree with this actually. Destiny players typically play the content for more hours... but I don't think Destiny actually has more campaign content then most standard FPS games.

The main difference is that you don't re-run previous content in most games to make the next content beatable. It's like Phantasy Star Online. How much content does that game really have... ignore how many hours it takes to actually get through it.

Starting the game as a brand new player at launch and playing through the PvE content once through is longer than the average FPS campaign. Without including Bounties or Patrol or the Raid and skipping most Strikes, the game probably takes anywhere from 14-18 hours depending on player skill. Things can move a bit faster if you use a Fireteam for everything rather than solo (which isn't an option for most FPS campaigns). CoD's regularly are completed in under 10 hours. Halo's seem to hover around the 10 hour mark give or take 2-3 hours per person.

That sounds like getting anything in Destiny. And to be clear, you're not relying on RNG for the majority of loot in Warframe. You do a mission, you get mats, you use the mats on a blueprint. It's pretty non-luck based actually. Personally I found the grind in Destiny far worse than the grind in warframe.

Last I played, if you weren't buying Blueprints, you got them from drops. And certain Bosses or certain activities dropped certain Blueprints. Then there was farming for the cards as well to improve your builds/customize your Suits.

 

[Steel]

Last I played, if you weren't buying Blueprints, you got them from drops. And certain Bosses or certain activities dropped certain Blueprints. Then there was farming for the cards as well to improve your builds/customize your Suits.

Blueprints cost credits which you get from everything, not the real-money currency.

 

[Kurt Angle]

how many red bulls and apologies can 0.00 get me?

 

[Jest Chillin]

Blueprints cost credits which you get from everything, not the real-money currency.

While many blueprints for many different items can be purchased from the Market module in the Liset or from Research rooms in a Dojo, some blueprints are only available as rewards from bosses, alert missions, or Orokin Void and Orokin Derelict missions. Blueprints require materials, either in resources or intermediate parts, and some Credits64 Credits in order to realize the final item....

Items are commonly built from intermediate parts: items that are the result of other blueprints. There are just a small number of complex weapons that are built from simpler ones, but the majority of Warframes require players to buy a frame blueprint and gather three intermediate part blueprints to craft the components (helmet, chassis, and systems) of the Warframe itself. These component blueprints are typically dropped from bosses, with most frames having a specific boss associated with them

So.. drops from Bosses. There is also the option to buy Frames/Suits from the Market with Platinum.

 

[Steel]

So.. drops from Bosses.

Keyword there is some, and warframe blueprints have a really decent drop rate. Look at my post, I said most not all things don't require RNG. The two things aren't mutually exclusive. Read the first line of wiki you quoted.

 

[Jest Chillin]

Keyword there is some, and those have a really decent drop rate. Look at my post, I said most not all things don't require RNG. The two things aren't mutually exclusive.

Frames are the most important Blueprints to get until you have well rounded stock to choose from though. And having only the ability to pick from 3 Frames at the beginning you had a 1/3 chance of picking Loki which was a very difficult Frame to start with. I heard they eventually swapped him out with another frame though.

 

[Steel]

Frames are the most important Blueprints to get until you have well rounded stock to choose from though. And having only the ability to pick from 3 Frames at the beginning you had a 1/3 chance of picking Loki which was a very difficult Frame to start with. I heard they eventually swapped him out with another frame though.

Weapons are just as, if not more important, than frames. And as I said, the drop rates for warframe blueprints is good. If you choose anything other than the Loki at the start, you're fine. And since they swapped him out, it's kinda irrelevant now isn't it?

 

[Glitchesarecool]

And having only the ability to pick from 3 Frames at the beginning you had a 1/3 chance of picking Loki which was a very difficult Frame to start with. I heard they eventually swapped him out with another frame though.

Correct. Current lineup is Excalibur (who just got a kickass rework), Mag, and Volt. The newest frames to be added in the last few updates have all come from Quest lines, which is new to Warframe, instead of from bosses. Basically complete this bit of story, get the frame.

 

[NullPointer]

So.. drops from Bosses. There is also the option to buy Frames/Suits from the Market with Platinum.

Its always changing. Newer Warframe parts come from Quests, a system they added a while ago.

And I'm pretty sure you can buy just about everything with real money (or platinum) in Warframe, but I wouldn't recommend it. The parts hunt, the battles therein and customizing your arsenal towards the task at hand are the game.

Correct. Current lineup is Excalibur (who just got a kickass rework), Mag, and Volt.

Now those are some classes, with actual synergies.

 

[Synth]

Starting the game as a brand new player at launch and playing through the PvE content once through is longer than the average FPS campaign. Without including Bounties or Patrol or the Raid and skipping most Strikes, the game probably takes anywhere from 14-18 hours depending on player skill. Things can move a bit faster if you use a Fireteam for everything rather than solo (which isn't an option for most FPS campaigns). CoD's regularly are completed in under 10 hours. Halo's seem to hover around the 10 hour mark give or take 2-3 hours per person.

Yes, but even then it's questionable how much of that is actually content. Even in the campaign, Destiny has you covering famaliar ground time and time again, constantly running into "locked door" sections where Dinklebot goes about his business as you fight off wave after wave of the same enemies doing the same thing. This was also quite a big issue with Halo CE, where much of the later game had you covering familiar ground... but even then it was more varied than what typically happens in Destiny. The only Halo level which I believe truly shares similarity to Destiny is The Library... and fuck that level.

You take something like Assault on the Control Room, and compare it to what Destiny offers, and I'd say Halo (and many other FPS campaigns) are significantly more content rich than Destiny. They just do less to dilute the content they have, to make it last longer.

EDIT: Also, I don't think my intial run through Destiny's SP content actually lasted much above 10 hours, despite all the monster rooms.

 

[Jest Chillin]

Weapons are just as, if not more important, than frames. And as I said, the drop rates for warframe blueprints is good. If you choose anything other than the Loki at the start, you're fine. And since they swapped him out, it's kinda irrelevant now isn't it?

I happened to have the poor luck of choosing Loki for my frame. Sucks for me.

If your stance is it's irrelevant because they changed it later, then the counter point is that since House of Wolves, you don't have to wait for drops to get gear. You can buy exotics from Xur once a week, buy Legendary gear and weapons for marks that you earn over time by completing activities and get Etheric Light from completing Prison of Elders PvE runs, competing in Iron Banner til you hit the appropriate rep, or winning enough times in Trials of Osiris.

Correct. Current lineup is Excalibur (who just got a kickass rework), Mag, and Volt. The newest frames to be added in the last few updates have all come from Quest lines, which is new to Warframe, instead of from bosses. Basically complete this bit of story, get the frame.

Its always changing. Newer Warframe parts come from Quests, a system they added a while ago.

This is new news to me and is definitely an improvement.

Yes, but even then it's questionable how much of that is actually content. Even in the campaign, Destiny has you covering famaliar ground time and time again, constantly running into "locked door" sections where Dinklebot goes about his business as you fight off wave after wave of the same enemies doing the same thing. This was also quite a big issue with Halo CE, where much of the later game had you covering familiar ground... but even then it was more varied than what typically happens in Destiny. The only Halo level which I believe truly shares similarity to Destiny is The Library... and fuck that level.

EDIT: Also, I don't think my intial run through Destiny's SP content actually lasted much above 10 hours, despite all the monster rooms.

Different Geometry =/= different "content." Especially when, in many FPS campaigns you reach several points where progress is halted until you clear a sufficient amount of waves. If you cleared all the missions on all the planets solo in under 10 hours at launch, then I think it's safe to say you're under the average clear time.

 

[Glitchesarecool]

I happened to have the poor luck of choosing Loki for my frame. Sucks for me.

Same here, luckily Rhino comes from Venus so it wasn't hard to switch over to something that was useful without a massive mod pool.

This is new news to me and is definitely an improvement.

Yep! Although since the major content updates with new frames are a bit more sparse for obvious reasons, that only includes Limbo, Chroma, and Mirage at the moment.

 

[Synth]

Different Geometry =/= different "content." Especially when, in many FPS campaigns you reach several points where progress is halted until you clear a sufficient amount of waves. If you cleared all the missions on all the planets solo in under 10 hours at launch, then I think it's safe to say you're under the average clear time.

So what is different "content"? The hours is takes to complete it? So if every room where your ghost needs to hack something has double the enemies, then the game has double the content, because it takes you twice as long? If that's the sort of metric you'd use to describe content then... well, you're probably on the same page as Bungie to be honest.

Yes, games often have progress blocks, but not to anywhere near the extent Destiny does. It's to the point where you walk into a room and immediately know "this is a job for dinklebot...". It's the hook of pretty much every campaign level, and consumes an incredible percentage of the playtime.

Also whilst this is obviously anecdotal, howlongtobeat places Destiny's campaign at about 11hrs making my time with it roughly average, and the overall time rather similar to Halo's far more varied and progressive campaigns.