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Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Yes. 100%.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
I think GamePass itself wasn't the downfall; but the incentives for GamePass clearly were.
With GamePass the focus is quantity over quality, and that just further hastened the downward spiral of their first party teams. They got worse under Spencer, amazingly, and he's had to BUY A LOT of studios to try and make up for it, and many of them are struggling more than they ever have.
What Phil doesn't get is you need to get rid of the sea of crap and just focus on making big blockbuster AAA games instead, because that's what really excites consumers
With GamePass the focus is quantity over quality, and that just further hastened the downward spiral of their first party teams. They got worse under Spencer, amazingly, and he's had to BUY A LOT of studios to try and make up for it, and many of them are struggling more than they ever have.
What Phil doesn't get is you need to get rid of the sea of crap and just focus on making big blockbuster AAA games instead, because that's what really excites consumers
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TheGodfather07
Member
I think it was more the lack of quality exclusive games that did the most damage and also the fact that the PS brand is just so strong that its very difficult to gain marketshare. Once PS4 dominated, people were locked into the ecosystem, making it almost impossible to get those people to switch over.
Robb
Gold Member
I don’t think so, or rather I don’t think one single factor is the cause. If they had been able to put out games with a similar reception as TLoU, BotW, Baldur Gate 3 etc. etc. things might’ve been very different now.
I just feel like most of their releases come and go, they don’t really retain hype or stay in the conversation.
Their best game this gen so far has been a game they chose to just shadow drop.
I just feel like most of their releases come and go, they don’t really retain hype or stay in the conversation.
Their best game this gen so far has been a game they chose to just shadow drop.
BlackTron
Gold Member
You've already gotten replies to this same exact post in another thread. You're not even going to make some small semblance of an attempt to address those points? Just completely ignore them and keep parroting the same thing? Nice
Mobile Chrome took a tire iron to quote insert and formatting. This is a reply to one of Mibo No's posts:
Do you mean 2010? Xbox debuted in 2001 and 2007 was a killer year for exclusives.
But I agree with everything you have said beyond that. To me, Microsoft Game Studios started to atrophy in 2009. It was Halo / Forza / Gears year after year, with some failed partnerships (Insomniac, Platinum) along the way.
As you allude to, imagine a scenario where, since 2009, Guerilla was still just Killzone, Naughty Dog was just Uncharted, and Sucker Punch was just inFamous. It's not like these games didn't get follow ups. Counting out that Vita stuff from (as far as I know) other developers, Killzone saw another two releases after KZ2, inFamous had two sequels, and Naughty Dog made another three Uncharted campaigns counting The Lost Legacy. But they also all moved on at some point. Guerilla has not worked on Killzone in a decade. Nearly the same for Sucker Punch with inFamous. Uncharted is almost seven years in the rear view mirror for Naughty Dog.
Meanwhile, 343 Industries and The Coalition are tasked with carrying the water on franchises that saw their best entries more than fifteen years ago. Can't quite make the same criticism of Turn 10, they more analogous to Polyphony, who has hasn't ventured too far from safe pastures outside of a Omega Boost and a sport bike game.
But imagine a scenario with no Horizon games. No Ghost of Tsushima. And despite dropping the second game like a bad habit halfway through, imagine TLOU not existing and inspiring the best live action video game adaptation ever.
Microsoft owns a bunch of hyper talented studios at this point. They need to do better than pushing out more product from 17 - 22 year old franchises, and Disney properties past their prime. First party, third party, whatever. They need to commit their development muscle towards new and interesting properties.
Do you mean 2010? Xbox debuted in 2001 and 2007 was a killer year for exclusives.
But I agree with everything you have said beyond that. To me, Microsoft Game Studios started to atrophy in 2009. It was Halo / Forza / Gears year after year, with some failed partnerships (Insomniac, Platinum) along the way.
As you allude to, imagine a scenario where, since 2009, Guerilla was still just Killzone, Naughty Dog was just Uncharted, and Sucker Punch was just inFamous. It's not like these games didn't get follow ups. Counting out that Vita stuff from (as far as I know) other developers, Killzone saw another two releases after KZ2, inFamous had two sequels, and Naughty Dog made another three Uncharted campaigns counting The Lost Legacy. But they also all moved on at some point. Guerilla has not worked on Killzone in a decade. Nearly the same for Sucker Punch with inFamous. Uncharted is almost seven years in the rear view mirror for Naughty Dog.
Meanwhile, 343 Industries and The Coalition are tasked with carrying the water on franchises that saw their best entries more than fifteen years ago. Can't quite make the same criticism of Turn 10, they more analogous to Polyphony, who has hasn't ventured too far from safe pastures outside of a Omega Boost and a sport bike game.
But imagine a scenario with no Horizon games. No Ghost of Tsushima. And despite dropping the second game like a bad habit halfway through, imagine TLOU not existing and inspiring the best live action video game adaptation ever.
Microsoft owns a bunch of hyper talented studios at this point. They need to do better than pushing out more product from 17 - 22 year old franchises, and Disney properties past their prime. First party, third party, whatever. They need to commit their development muscle towards new and interesting properties.
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CoreyFlawless
Member
Why is it, Xbox goes mobile and cloud and pc day one. Start a subscription saying they want to be on many screens as possible. It’s Xbox doom. PlayStation says the same, and it’s not doom?
Generic
Member
It still have to see a good argument against Sony putting their games Day-1 on PS+ aside of "It would decrease the game sales", which is irrelevante for me because I'm not a shareholder.
BlackTron
Gold Member
I responded to you myself with many good points. If you think they are bad, tell me why.
Even on your point here. Imagine that, ailing to compete with MickeyD's, Burger King gave away free burgers until they started talking about going out of business. So you walk into the McDonalds next door and demand free burgers. "You guys are in a better position, if burger king who is dying can give it away for free, surely you can." But McDonalds wants to sell you burgers forever, not act like your buddy by giving free stuff until they also die and then you have no burgers anymore at all.
Why would you care about McDonald's wanting to run a sustainable business that can continue to serve you burgers forever? You're not a shareholder, so obviously they should be copying the business that was giving away free stuff out of desperation to compete with them.
TheDarkPhantom
Member
Yes, now let's create the next Xbox themed thread, we've only had 20 this week 
BlackTron
Gold Member
So basically they never understood and were outsiders in the industry from the beginning. Almost everything redeeming about Xbox can be traced to a few individuals like Peter Moore. When what small competent guard they did have dissipated the wheels completely flew off.
It's basically just MS gonna MS nothing new special or surprising
reinking
Gold Member
I don't have anger from the subscription service but I do believe Game Pass has been Microsoft's attempt to buy consumer loyalty and in the long run buy up control of the industry. Can I ask why others' opinions on the subscription service seem to have angered you?
BlackTron
Gold Member
It's optional to subscribe but whether it will hurt the gaming industry isn't. So even a person who doesn't play Xbox might have alarm bells about what MS is doing with GP and acquisitions.
For people who do play Xbox. Maybe they're angry at GP because it killed their beloved.
geary
Member
I think if you asked any of the Xbox owners, are thrilled with the value gamepass brings to their hobby.
BlackTron
Gold Member
Yes, now let's create the next Xbox themed thread, we've only had 20 this week
Only 20 in a whole week? Those are account suicide thread numbers
BlackTron
Gold Member
lol I've been talking with Xbox owners all day here. What's your sample size? 1?
It's also funny that you assume I don't have a Xbox
Painskiller
Member
Not downfall, but change of direction. No more quality games, but a lot of cheap and mediocre titles in subscription.
BlackTron
Gold Member
That's not a downfall? Just a change in direction? Dude if you aren't in PR you're in the wrong job
Painskiller
Member
I am PlayStation and Nintendo player, so I don’t care about Xbox situation.
Mister Wolf
Gold Member
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
I think it is because of Game Pass, they could not deliver big-budget games like these.
Have you noticed that almost all XGS games look very AA and mid-budget? Starfield, Avowed, Indiana Jones, Halo Infinite, Redfall, etc. None of these games have the scope, ambition, or production values of a modern-day high-budget AAA game, e.g., TLOU 2, GOWR, Cyberpunk, RDR 2, etc.
So it does tie indirectly back to Game Pass.
Skifi28
Member
So in line with other major subscription services like Disney plus.
"we'll make tons of money eventually, we have to. So let's keep losing billions until we do."
StereoVsn
Member
Yeah, Day 1 PC and GamePass diluted the value of owning Xbox consoles.
In addition mismanagement or lack of management of Xbox game studios hurt even more on top.
And I say that as primarily a PC gamer, but have owned every Xbox since OG. Well and PS hardware as well (plus Nintendo and Sony handhelds).
There was no point of owning Xbox except for BC and some games I would rather play on console due to how bad the Windows Store bugs were.
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balls of snow
Gold Member
Once they do away with the hardware you bet your ass ms is leaving the xbox name behind and it will just be microsoft gamepass. The xbox brand is too toxic.
Klosshufvud
Member
Phil "Great games won't help Xbox" Spencer definitely did.
intheinbetween
Member
So the XBOX division is already shutting down?
Lord Malachite
Member
There's really not in the current market conditions. With Xbox putting every one of its games not only on Gamepass but on PC, the actually need for any gamer to own an Xbox to play those games is just too small--Series is basically only for gamers who either cannot afford to game on PC or who actively choose not to. Yes, there's a market for there, but not really large enough of one to sustain Series. Especially when you have the PS5 next door which has almost every game Series has save for the ones developed internally by Xbox or one of the publishers Xbox recently acquired. While PS exclusives do come to PC, it's generally years between the console release and the PC release. If you don't mind waiting 12 to 36 months, that's great. But you can make a muc greater case for needing a PS5 than you can a Series. Add to this, the Switch is there too, holding down every Nintendo exclusive which you can't play on PC even years later while being available in the same price range as the Series S, and that's basically the final nail in the coffin.
This doesn't even take into account the PS5 All Digital Edition, which is a 1:1 with the full tilt PS5 lacking only an optical drive. No specs are sacrificed for a lower price point.
Even if you are a big fan of Xbox first party content, there is still very little compelling reason to actually buy Xbox hardware. It's a baffling decision, and IMO Xbox should stop trying to straddle the fence and just drop Xbox hardware entirely and push for being a digital platform on PC and mobile.
Moses85
Member
So you think Microsoft is making Profit with GP?
They already burned so much money with this service, this will never result in profit.
Negotiator101
Member
We really have to get these stupid ass threads every 3 seconds? Downfall of Xbox? Zero common sense once again 
Negotiator101
Member
70 billion acquisition, full backing of the CEO, promotion for Phil Spencer and just had a developer direct confirming 3 console exclusives for 2024. If that's Xbox's downfall then bring it on!
What a
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NikuNashi
Member
First phase is denial.70 billion acquisition, full backing of the CEO, promotion for Phil Spencer and just had a developer direct confirming 3 console exclusives for 2024. If that's Xbox's downfall then bring it on!
What a
Negotiator101
Member
You mean facts, not the nonsense rumours that you and the clowns are writing threads after threads of utter shite about.
Snake29
Banned
You must be blind nit seeing what is happening or the difference.
yazenov
Gold Member
I think Game Pass was the result of Sony dominating MS in both hardware and software sales. MS was going down anyway given the dwindling sales post-Xbox 360. Gamepass was their last-ditch effort to stay relevant and counter Sony's dominance, it was introduced out of necessity for survival,.
So no, I don't think Game Pass was the result of their downfall. It was due to their incompetence and the lack of awareness of what the market wants. But Gamepass is the final nail in the coffin for Xbox.
So no, I don't think Game Pass was the result of their downfall. It was due to their incompetence and the lack of awareness of what the market wants. But Gamepass is the final nail in the coffin for Xbox.
Negotiator101
Member
NikuNashi
Member
I know it hurts man. It will get better, give it time.
spons
Member
Game Pass is weird and in-between. The missing DLCs for first-party games is odd. I would go the Ubisoft+ Premium road: everything included. Right now it's a little bit of everything, which means it's mostly nothing. Of course there is the rare gem such as Palworld on Game Pass, which could make it worth it, but it's just not enough. Either double-down on subscriptions or ditch the thing.
Negotiator101
Member
Yeah 3 exclusives already confirmed for 2024 and more coming yes it will get better
