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Wasteland 2 |OT| Explode 'em like a Blood Sausage
- Thread starter Coreda
- Start date
just got to
how much far in the game am I?
also a couple of questions. Silo 7 mission,
Also,
LA.
also a couple of questions. Silo 7 mission,
I got all the gold, by selling it I don't get much money so am I supposed to use it in some other way?
do I miss something if I kill Sadler or the Red Scorpion leader? I've already finished their main quests.
Half way.
oh, wow, it's much longer than what I expected.
just started the game, been playing a bit with my bebop crew
how do you guys deal with the tedium of going through every container and every door, checking for alarms and bombs every time? i feel like i might be missing something
how do you guys deal with the tedium of going through every container and every door, checking for alarms and bombs every time? i feel like i might be missing something
LurkerPrime
Member
Awareness will automatically spot alarms and traps; if the skill is high enough it should only take a moment to detect them. The time to unlock/safecrack/hack is unnecessary, though.
Aside from that, hording every item you come across is half the charm of RPGs! And fortunately Wasteland 2 fully embraces this by offering a crazy amount of unique stuff to grab; some useless, and some not. As an added bonus, the fabulous writing makes every item worth looking at... and some keeping, just 'cuz.
Really, Wasteland 2 is a reminder of why the "junk" category in some RPGs (I'm looking at you, Dragon Age 2) is the wrong way to approach loot in the genre.
my initial impressions of the game are that basically wasteland 2 respects fallout (or maybe wasteland 1, i didn't really play it) way too much
i understand why they didn't streamline some things but i really wish they had found better ways around it. i'm probably having the same issues as everyone else, like not being a great fan of random skillchecks, general interface annoyances (i really don't like the tiny space they dedicated to your character skills), the overabundance of skills to justify the multiple party memebers.
like there are modern solutions to some of these problems that are great and wouldn't dilute the experience. you can leave both options available. click on the object to automatically do the correct action (provided you passed the perception skillchecks) with the most capable partymember or just manually use the action if you want someone specific to do it (say you want that partymember to get the exp)
i do like the game tho, the excitement of discovering new places and talking to new people and just doing stuff in these kinds of rpgs is just as great as ever. doing fallouty shit is kind of my favorite thing in videogames so i can still get lost for hours and hours. unfortunately interface annoyances really make the experience a lot less fun cos it's basically just a chore to open every damned container. i'm generally not a savescummy person but like locking myself out of a door that potentially leads to new quests and characters and fallouty stuff is just not what i want.
so yeah, maybe mods?
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btw specific game question: when you examine something, does it examine it with the whole party or do i have to examine it with every partymember? i've been trying to test it myself but haven't reached anything conclusive
i understand why they didn't streamline some things but i really wish they had found better ways around it. i'm probably having the same issues as everyone else, like not being a great fan of random skillchecks, general interface annoyances (i really don't like the tiny space they dedicated to your character skills), the overabundance of skills to justify the multiple party memebers.
like there are modern solutions to some of these problems that are great and wouldn't dilute the experience. you can leave both options available. click on the object to automatically do the correct action (provided you passed the perception skillchecks) with the most capable partymember or just manually use the action if you want someone specific to do it (say you want that partymember to get the exp)
i do like the game tho, the excitement of discovering new places and talking to new people and just doing stuff in these kinds of rpgs is just as great as ever. doing fallouty shit is kind of my favorite thing in videogames so i can still get lost for hours and hours. unfortunately interface annoyances really make the experience a lot less fun cos it's basically just a chore to open every damned container. i'm generally not a savescummy person but like locking myself out of a door that potentially leads to new quests and characters and fallouty stuff is just not what i want.
so yeah, maybe mods?
---
btw specific game question: when you examine something, does it examine it with the whole party or do i have to examine it with every partymember? i've been trying to test it myself but haven't reached anything conclusive
LurkerPrime
Member
Wasteland 2 was created as a throwback game, so some of the archaic design decisions are ... understandable. Not all, but most.
Similar to you, I really wish they streamlined or fleshed out some of the less... well-implemented aspects of the game, like the "stealth" mechanic the game wants to have sometimes, and some of the bizarre quest designs. Don't get my wrong: I don't mind the more obscure or bizarre puzzles, but some of the quests are purely time-wasters by design. A special mention goes out to the RNG-based skill checks, which, to me, seem tuned wrong most of the time. I understand why they do it that way - to allow for more varied/unexpected playthroughs - but it really sucks when you lack enough of a skill to make use of it. A lot of the time it feels like an all-or-nothing deal, where you ought to focus on three core skills or not bother with any of them.
It's unfortunate that such a varied and well-written game had to bludgeon some of its mechanics in order for everything to work OK. It really could have used a couple more months of development to polish everything a bit more. With luck, InXile's patches will get Wasteland 2 where it deserves to be.
Oh and one correction for you, zkylon: Fallout (released in 1997) was made almost a decade after Wasteland (released in 1988). So you have your history reversed.
Perception and awareness (I think I might've confused the two in my post before) are character specific, so once something is detected the whole party can take advantage of the info. For example, you can have a high perception character acting as a "mine-sweeper" to detect the mines mines and a separate character as acting as the bomb disposal expert (using demolitions to disarm them). Even if the detector moves out of range, what they've uncovered will stay to the rest of the party.
The one thing I'm not sure about is whether this knowledge persists between loading screens.
Similar to you, I really wish they streamlined or fleshed out some of the less... well-implemented aspects of the game, like the "stealth" mechanic the game wants to have sometimes, and some of the bizarre quest designs. Don't get my wrong: I don't mind the more obscure or bizarre puzzles, but some of the quests are purely time-wasters by design. A special mention goes out to the RNG-based skill checks, which, to me, seem tuned wrong most of the time. I understand why they do it that way - to allow for more varied/unexpected playthroughs - but it really sucks when you lack enough of a skill to make use of it. A lot of the time it feels like an all-or-nothing deal, where you ought to focus on three core skills or not bother with any of them.
It's unfortunate that such a varied and well-written game had to bludgeon some of its mechanics in order for everything to work OK. It really could have used a couple more months of development to polish everything a bit more. With luck, InXile's patches will get Wasteland 2 where it deserves to be.
Oh and one correction for you, zkylon: Fallout (released in 1997) was made almost a decade after Wasteland (released in 1988). So you have your history reversed.
btw specific game question: when you examine something, does it examine it with the whole party or do i have to examine it with every partymember? i've been trying to test it myself but haven't reached anything conclusive
Perception and awareness (I think I might've confused the two in my post before) are character specific, so once something is detected the whole party can take advantage of the info. For example, you can have a high perception character acting as a "mine-sweeper" to detect the mines mines and a separate character as acting as the bomb disposal expert (using demolitions to disarm them). Even if the detector moves out of range, what they've uncovered will stay to the rest of the party.
The one thing I'm not sure about is whether this knowledge persists between loading screens.
You can also simply shoot the mines.. a single shotgun blast takes out a number of them if you angle it right.
yea i already knew about w1 being earlier than fallout. maybe i wrote it wrong but cmon, fallout is my favorite game ever, don't you think i would've known that -_-
anywho, i don't think rng checks have a place in these kinds of games. for some other more random based games like roguelikes or mount & blade or whatever i can totally see it as adding to the experience but i'm hear to take as much content as possible. failing quests can be interesting but not because rng decided i got locked out of a chest.
about the detection/awareness thing, yeah, again, if there's something i have no interest in preserving is unnecessary steps. what's the point of examining every object with all your expert characters, that's just a chore and i don't like that at all. fallout is like the greatest game ever, but you know, it wasn't perfect.
there's no need to keep everything as it was to do a throwback game!
also i'm not shooting mines for now since i'm super strapped on ammo. i think making one of my characters a smg user is not too early game friendly
anywho, i don't think rng checks have a place in these kinds of games. for some other more random based games like roguelikes or mount & blade or whatever i can totally see it as adding to the experience but i'm hear to take as much content as possible. failing quests can be interesting but not because rng decided i got locked out of a chest.
about the detection/awareness thing, yeah, again, if there's something i have no interest in preserving is unnecessary steps. what's the point of examining every object with all your expert characters, that's just a chore and i don't like that at all. fallout is like the greatest game ever, but you know, it wasn't perfect.
there's no need to keep everything as it was to do a throwback game!
also i'm not shooting mines for now since i'm super strapped on ammo. i think making one of my characters a smg user is not too early game friendly
yea i already knew about w1 being earlier than fallout. maybe i wrote it wrong but cmon, fallout is my favorite game ever, don't you think i would've known that -_-
anywho, i don't think rng checks have a place in these kinds of games. for some other more random based games like roguelikes or mount & blade or whatever i can totally see it as adding to the experience but i'm hear to take as much content as possible. failing quests can be interesting but not because rng decided i got locked out of a chest.
about the detection/awareness thing, yeah, again, if there's something i have no interest in preserving is unnecessary steps. what's the point of examining every object with all your expert characters, that's just a chore and i don't like that at all. fallout is like the greatest game ever, but you know, it wasn't perfect.
there's no need to keep everything as it was to do a throwback game!
also i'm not shooting mines for now since i'm super strapped on ammo. i think making one of my characters a smg user is not too early game friendly
For someone who claims that Fallout is their favorite game ever you sure do bitch alot about the skill system that is ripped right out of Fallout, right down to the 'RNG' checks.
good to know
like i said, fallout wasn't perfect
blindly worshiping a game is not smart
But your complaints aren't even things that are in the game, they are just things you are worried are in the game. I can't think of a quest iv'e failed because I couldn't open a safe, and characters with perception automatically check everything that comes within their range. You can click the skill to get a circle showing you the range.
that's cool but i have no way of knowing this which is why rng is not a great experience for this type of game. you don't know if you missed a quest until you pass the skill check and see what's inside. i appreciate there are multiple ways of opening a door (as there should be) and such, that's what i love about the game, i just don't like the rng elements
and sorry for being dense on the perception thing but my experience so far has been get to a locked safe/door. right click it to examine it and find out it's locked. go to my explosives dude and try and use explosives skills on the safe/door. do the same with alarm dudette. after succesfully disarming whatever was in there then go to safecracker/lockpicker and use the corresponding skill until it's open. i have all the skills mapped to quickslots but this still seems like more work than it should.
i get the impression i'm missing a step or two, should i use highest awareness character to examine it so the hud text thingie lets me know of all the traps at once? is examining even needed?
LurkerPrime
Member
Awareness is the range a character can detect things, wheras Perception is the ability to actually discover something. A discovery check occurs automagically every second or two, and when something is found a little sound and visual effect will appear from the spot it originates in. So, for example, a locked safe will shimmer for a sec once a character perceives that you need safecracking to open it, or if its trapped, or if it needs to be hacked, etc...
Activating perception only shows you the area in which you can discover things in - useful if you're trying to detect something in a specific area.
Edit
For the talk skills specifically (Hard Ass, Smart Ass, Kiss Ass) the skill checks are wildly unbalanced, with no correlation between the difficulty of the area and the difficulty of the skill check. I can't tell you the number of times I've missed the check (and thus the ability to use it at all) by a point or two (or 4), simply because I had the audacity to not make it my #1 skill. They've been almost entirely useless for my playthrough so far... and it's a bummer.
It might be by design, but is seemed badly conceived and implemented.
Activating perception only shows you the area in which you can discover things in - useful if you're trying to detect something in a specific area.
Edit
For the talk skills specifically (Hard Ass, Smart Ass, Kiss Ass) the skill checks are wildly unbalanced, with no correlation between the difficulty of the area and the difficulty of the skill check. I can't tell you the number of times I've missed the check (and thus the ability to use it at all) by a point or two (or 4), simply because I had the audacity to not make it my #1 skill. They've been almost entirely useless for my playthrough so far... and it's a bummer.
It might be by design, but is seemed badly conceived and implemented.
uh, I thought you people were complaining about the rng skill checks.
in any case, so far I didn't find it that unbalanced. first areas had 2-3 points needed, where I am now it's 7-8. I actually have no problem to use them since 10 int on some characters helps, and in some cases I saw that they could save me from pointless and long fights, so I was putting points in those since 10 hours or so into the game. I didn't try all the options available but from what I played they turned out to be useful from time to time.
Allnamestakenlol
Member
Haven't gotten around to playing this much since release, but did sli get busted? Early access worked fine using AFR2 in inspector, but not any longer.
The game is designed so that you shouldn't worry about whether or not you're missing things. If you're trying to play so that you 'maximize everything, get all the quests, complete everything 100%' - I don't even think that's possible. I don't want to tell you that you're playing wrong, but I want to implore you to try playing this game completely free of that mentality.
If you critically fail opening a chest, just let it go and move on, don't reload your save and try again. If something bad happens in a quest, or one of your party members dies, just let it go and move on. The game is designed to always have a way out, even if you fuck *everything* up. Maybe eventually if you do enough things poorly you could put yourself in a scenario where you don't have enough party members left or something, but the most rewarding way I've found to play this game (and on another note Divinity: Original Sin) is to just let go of my desire to play the game 'perfectly'. It's way more enjoyable this way.
Also, maybe I'm projecting a bit and this isn't you at all. If that's the case, sorry
I just started playing this yesterday (finally), and I have to say that the UI is much better than I feared from the screenshots. I guess all those rounds of feedback did help.
There are still some inexplicable things (like why can't I slot items/skills in my quickbar by drag and drop), but overall, with some customization it's decent enough.
There are still some inexplicable things (like why can't I slot items/skills in my quickbar by drag and drop), but overall, with some customization it's decent enough.
The one time I've seen this so far I got a special dialogue option.
UncleSporky
Member
It means right click them to get a little extra info.
One instance in the game that could possibly make you stuck because lack of proper skills is
But other than that, I don't think there is any except some quest outcome.
in Rodia's Radio Tower if you messed up the quest order, rendering Vergil unable to fix the tower for you. Well, if no one in your party have high enough mechanical repair skill, you're screwed. But I don't know if there is any other way to fix it like possibly spare part in other part of California
But other than that, I don't think there is any except some quest outcome.
The thing that I really hate with - Ass skills is that their check in NPC is feel completely lack of foreshadowing. There's part in the game that you literary talk to a stranger, not related to main quest of the area, and bam! Smart Ass check, and mine isn't enough to went through. Even when my Smart Ass character have spare skill point, when you leave the conversation, the dialogue choice is gone. You have to reload. This is really annoying when you try to play the game without too much save scumming or simply forget to quick save.
Just started playing this again after a few weeks of life getting in the way. Cleared AZ and am few hours into CA.
That story transition was horrible, they couldn't use some custom art? They had to go with the shittiest text over mock helicopter flying over ugly 3D rendered locations/overworld map? Whatever. Still in awe of the game simply due to the fact that I cant go two minutes without finding or being reminded of some terrible flaw or poor design choice, yet I'm still absolutely enthralled by the game and enjoying it a ton. Most other games I would have just given up by now.
I'm happy that energy weapons finally matter and now that character is literally carrying the entire team just wasting whole enemy encounters on their own almost. Not that my Sniper duo or AR duo aren't wrecking shit on their own, but that Gamma Ray Blaster just liquidates even 300+ hp dudes in one burst, it's crazy OP. Chisel is OK, but melee is still pointless and offers little benefit outside cleanup duty. He's more useful as a damage sponge, mule and occasional grenade/LAW guy.
Takayuki/Level Up Mine bug still exists so he's gone and I could hand in that one unique item to the dude there so that was annoying.
Honestly I hope they start work on a Wasteland 3 soon and not The Bard's Tale. The series has a lot of potential. They need to ditch fully 3D though and go back to isometric pre-rendered backdrops like PoE and Torment. Fully 3D is just not worth it and is way too inconsistent visually. The setting just doesn't feel real. The communities and settlements aren't believable, there's pretty much no sense of this being an actual living world, both from a structural and visual standpoint. They need to do a hell of a lot better job of fleshing out the world and creating set pieces and things that make it feel like people actually live here and travel around. The blank barren map does no favors and what locations there are just don't do the job.
As well the combat needs a lot of reworking, it's fun, but way too simple and just lacks any kind of meaningful depth or tactics. Even more so the entire CLASSIC and skill system should be thrown out and burned into oblivion. The current system is just shit, there is little to no redeeming value to the current mechanics of the game. They work more or less but that's about as positive a statement I can make about it. So many dump stats, tons of useless skills, poor implementation/explenation of many skills. Meanwhile many skills are super important and require a balanced party, but because all the companions are total shit builds with either useless stats or redundant skillsets only a couple are even worth considering.
The dialogue system needs a lot of work too. I like it, but it's not use nearly enough in the game and manual input is still totally broken half the time. Not that it matters because the only time I've found it to actually be worthwhile was in Silo 7, and even then I wouldn't have known about that had I not looked it up. They need to make that a much larger and more rewarding aspect of the game or players will never build up the experience or prior knowledge to ever use it to a meaningful degree.
That story transition was horrible, they couldn't use some custom art? They had to go with the shittiest text over mock helicopter flying over ugly 3D rendered locations/overworld map? Whatever. Still in awe of the game simply due to the fact that I cant go two minutes without finding or being reminded of some terrible flaw or poor design choice, yet I'm still absolutely enthralled by the game and enjoying it a ton. Most other games I would have just given up by now.
I absolutely wrecked that Scorpitron, no contest.
I'm happy that energy weapons finally matter and now that character is literally carrying the entire team just wasting whole enemy encounters on their own almost. Not that my Sniper duo or AR duo aren't wrecking shit on their own, but that Gamma Ray Blaster just liquidates even 300+ hp dudes in one burst, it's crazy OP. Chisel is OK, but melee is still pointless and offers little benefit outside cleanup duty. He's more useful as a damage sponge, mule and occasional grenade/LAW guy.
Takayuki/Level Up Mine bug still exists so he's gone and I could hand in that one unique item to the dude there so that was annoying.
Honestly I hope they start work on a Wasteland 3 soon and not The Bard's Tale. The series has a lot of potential. They need to ditch fully 3D though and go back to isometric pre-rendered backdrops like PoE and Torment. Fully 3D is just not worth it and is way too inconsistent visually. The setting just doesn't feel real. The communities and settlements aren't believable, there's pretty much no sense of this being an actual living world, both from a structural and visual standpoint. They need to do a hell of a lot better job of fleshing out the world and creating set pieces and things that make it feel like people actually live here and travel around. The blank barren map does no favors and what locations there are just don't do the job.
As well the combat needs a lot of reworking, it's fun, but way too simple and just lacks any kind of meaningful depth or tactics. Even more so the entire CLASSIC and skill system should be thrown out and burned into oblivion. The current system is just shit, there is little to no redeeming value to the current mechanics of the game. They work more or less but that's about as positive a statement I can make about it. So many dump stats, tons of useless skills, poor implementation/explenation of many skills. Meanwhile many skills are super important and require a balanced party, but because all the companions are total shit builds with either useless stats or redundant skillsets only a couple are even worth considering.
The dialogue system needs a lot of work too. I like it, but it's not use nearly enough in the game and manual input is still totally broken half the time. Not that it matters because the only time I've found it to actually be worthwhile was in Silo 7, and even then I wouldn't have known about that had I not looked it up. They need to make that a much larger and more rewarding aspect of the game or players will never build up the experience or prior knowledge to ever use it to a meaningful degree.
Just a quick reminder, since I've seen lots of youtubers who don't know this, and it took me a bit to figure out.
Selecting a skill like heal or surgeon will either automatically use the required item or prompt you for a choice if you carry more than one type of requisite item. No need to dig into your inventory or put things like heal kits in your quick bar.
LurkerPrime
Member
I can't say I disagree with Enduin's post about the state of the game. Everything feels like a bundle o' compromises instead of what they wanted, at least from what I've seen.
Wasteland 2 wants characters' stats to represent the character themselves, with adventures that happens along the way because of your party's composition, but then you have very rigid systems that require specific approaches to succeed. There is no true stealth, so avoiding hostiles is impossible, and diplomacy is only an option in the rarest of cases; combat is very rock-paper-scissors, and if you haven't got the right tools you're just wasting your time; and to top it all off, there's a large, empty world with almost nothing to do aside from assigned objectives, which means there's no "go away and come back when stronger" possibility unless you're grinding on the random encounters for
a long while. So, the game has a largely linear progression even though it seems designed counter to this... which is the root of W2's problems.
And, yes, I know there are multiple solutions to problems, but the crux of every area is non-negotiable combat.
The bolded got me so bad. I kept trying it... and being disappointed. It's such a standard feature that I don't know how they skipped it.
This reminds me, the timer-based injuries are such a nuisance. They challenge you to wait when it would otherwise be so easy to abuse their RNG. There has to be a better way...
Wasteland 2 wants characters' stats to represent the character themselves, with adventures that happens along the way because of your party's composition, but then you have very rigid systems that require specific approaches to succeed. There is no true stealth, so avoiding hostiles is impossible, and diplomacy is only an option in the rarest of cases; combat is very rock-paper-scissors, and if you haven't got the right tools you're just wasting your time; and to top it all off, there's a large, empty world with almost nothing to do aside from assigned objectives, which means there's no "go away and come back when stronger" possibility unless you're grinding on the random encounters for
ever
And, yes, I know there are multiple solutions to problems, but the crux of every area is non-negotiable combat.
The bolded got me so bad. I kept trying it... and being disappointed. It's such a standard feature that I don't know how they skipped it.
This reminds me, the timer-based injuries are such a nuisance. They challenge you to wait when it would otherwise be so easy to abuse their RNG. There has to be a better way...
nah i'm generally not a save scummy person, like i know i won't bother to revisit and reloot these areas so i take my chances with a 30% or something and if i miss then it's ok. but being ok with missing doesn't mean i enjoy it either and so far there's been an awful lot of missing of the critical kindThe game is designed so that you shouldn't worry about whether or not you're missing things. If you're trying to play so that you 'maximize everything, get all the quests, complete everything 100%' - I don't even think that's possible. I don't want to tell you that you're playing wrong, but I want to implore you to try playing this game completely free of that mentality.
If you critically fail opening a chest, just let it go and move on, don't reload your save and try again. If something bad happens in a quest, or one of your party members dies, just let it go and move on. The game is designed to always have a way out, even if you fuck *everything* up. Maybe eventually if you do enough things poorly you could put yourself in a scenario where you don't have enough party members left or something, but the most rewarding way I've found to play this game (and on another note Divinity: Original Sin) is to just let go of my desire to play the game 'perfectly'. It's way more enjoyable this way.
Also, maybe I'm projecting a bit and this isn't you at all. If that's the case, sorry
it's not my biggest gripe with the game tho, i really mind it very little. most of all i don't like the clunkiness of its interface. so many clicks just to open anything :/
i enjoy it a lot in every other moment. i think i might go back to divinity for a while since it seems inexile is being cool and updating the game constantly, see if modders finally find a way to replace the font for a nicer looking one, etc.
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btw does blowing safes up mess up its contents? or is it safe (lol)?
Shake Appeal
Member
Echoing some of the longer posts above, I'm pretty sure that Wasteland 2 is the most fun I've ever had with a badly designed game. Like, the first 50 hours or so blew by (I've slowed down since hitting CA, but that's also partly to do with waiting to see what patches would do... and Alien: Isolation coming out) despite me being really underwhelmed by a lot of the mechanics, and staggered at times by how unbalanced character creation and combat are.
I find myself constantly thinking about what Wasteland 3 could be.
I find myself constantly thinking about what Wasteland 3 could be.
Fallout-NL
Member
Same here, though some kind of new art style should definitely be high on their list of priorities. OG Fallout (which I'm comparing this to) still looks much better and has more character. Trouble is that with this budget it's probably nigh impossible to make something that looks half decent.
I like playing it though. I bought Alien Isolation, The Evil Within, Shadow of Mordor, but Wasteland 2 is the one I actually want to keep playing. Yes, I agree with all the longer posts above me, but it's still more fun than I've had in, well, years. Except for maybe Dark Souls, which was equally successful in making me feel 15yrs old again (a good thing).
Think I'm going to play Fallout again once I'm done with this.
I like playing it though. I bought Alien Isolation, The Evil Within, Shadow of Mordor, but Wasteland 2 is the one I actually want to keep playing. Yes, I agree with all the longer posts above me, but it's still more fun than I've had in, well, years. Except for maybe Dark Souls, which was equally successful in making me feel 15yrs old again (a good thing).
Think I'm going to play Fallout again once I'm done with this.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
Just reached
, can't be that much left right?
Hollywood
Well the fact that Torment 2 opted for a fixed perspective is promising, cause yea the rotating camera in WL2 is awful.
Yea you're in the home stretch.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
That's good to hear, cause I feel like I'm getting close to the point where I had enough of the game. I still really love it though, probably my GotY.
I still can't believe how many RPG fans who are otherwise intelligent people can't deal with a simple camera system. The wailing and gnashing of teeth whenever a game opts for a non-fixed perspective is completely disproportionate.
Anyway, I had time to play the game for 3 hours today (yay!), and aside from the small interface niggles (which I got used to quickly) I like it a lot. So what if skills and attributes aren't perfectly balanced, all the very best RPGs aren't balanced.
This amused me way more than it should:
Anyway, I had time to play the game for 3 hours today (yay!), and aside from the small interface niggles (which I got used to quickly) I like it a lot. So what if skills and attributes aren't perfectly balanced, all the very best RPGs aren't balanced.
This amused me way more than it should:
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
Yeah, I didn't really have any problems with the camera. I like it more than Divinity's camera system (I unlocked the camera there as well).
Edit: Everytime I level up my characters I'm reminded how absolutely aweful the characters look. Really glad to see Torment looks better. They are just insanly ugly.
My biggest problem with the safe/lock/alarm/toaster skills is that they encourage save scumming. A possible solution would be to have the contents of the safe change depending on the level of skill. So less junk/ammo and lower tiers of weapons based on the skill. Alarm could have a larger alert area, give enemies a higher initiative when it does fail, etc. Not sure what toaster would do. Maybe cause status effects, but can reattempt as many times as you want.
I just saw this, and I really can't agree, especially having replayed FO1 last year. Like most isometric games, FO1 has aged decently well, but it's still just barely acceptable by modern standards. WL2 looks pretty good most of the time. As Fantastapotamus says, the character models are fugly, but you don't zoom in on them during gameplay.
That's a very gamey approach though, towards balancing/fixing something that doesn't really need fixing IMHO. That's the problem I have with a lot of RPG discussion, it focuses on fixing "imbalances", "save scumming", "dump stats" and so on, when I've never found any of those a significant factor in my enjoyment of the game.
I've never played an RPG and thought "this would be so much better if it had no dump stats". "This would be better with better writing"? Sure. "This needs more interesting and varied skills"? Absolutely. "That quest should have given you the option to do X"? You bet! "I'd like more diverse character builds?" Always.
But never "I'd have liked this game so much more if they focused on eliminating save scumming".
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
I dunno. Let save scummers save scumm. Doesn't hurt anybody, really.
Don't make a design decision based on that.
If you want to avoid it, why not simply not save scum? I think it might be nice to include a "Ironman Mode" but ultimately you're making the conscious decision to reload a previous save to avoid consequences.
Balancing is one thing that is often handled very poorly and leads to homogeneous and boring outcomes. The pyramids in Divinity: Original Sin are a great example of something that would have severely impacted the gameplay of the game if they were subject to typical balancing outcomes.
Btw, are you downsampling + FXAA in those screenshots?
Honestly I think it should just be pass/fail. Either you have the skill level or you don't. If you want to keep the percentage option bring in minigames, though I'm sure most would oppose that, the lower your success % the harder the game is.
Actually having to do something that takes time and effort would be a great barrier to save scumming for most people. Though that requires creating good minigames which isn't so easy. I would also say they need to actually hand place loot and drop the shitty rng crap.
My favorite lock game was from Betrayal in Antara where they used marbles to unlock chests. You had to get the correct sequence of colors to unlock and dispose of different marble sets to get certain color marbles. It was great and really challenging and you got great stuff too.
I fully agree with this. Divinity: OS is gloriously imbalanced, and yet many would agree that it has some of the best and most engaging RPG combat this decade.
Downsampling + HQ SMAA.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
I won a particular boss fight in Divinity OS by stacking up a bunch of chairs before the fight happened and the enemies just couldn't figure out a way around them. I was proud of myself that night.
There is always this sweet spot between "not balanced enough" and "too balanced" for me, especially in RPGs.
I agree with this notion too. Since many years, this is the first time I played a game for straight 6 hours non-stop. Definitely flawed, but it gives you a really fun experience, especially the combat and the writing. I hope inXile learned many things so they can shaped Numenera better.
Shake Appeal
Member
I don't really care about a fixed perspective or not, but the camera in this is at far too high an angle. I still find myself fighting it dozens of hours in.
These are kind of related, though. If there were no dump stats (and dump skills, and dump weapon classes), more builds would be viable and interesting.
i actually really like being able to rotate the camera, i don't feel like it's a problem at all, specially since you can just hold z to highlight
i also agree with durante, i think the game actually looks pretty good, save for the character models, specially the faces, which are pretty damn terrible who knows why.
i also agree with durante, i think the game actually looks pretty good, save for the character models, specially the faces, which are pretty damn terrible who knows why.
LurkerPrime
Member
Z to highlight would be more helpful if they actually told you about it in-game at some point. (To be fair, I never checked the key bindings.)
The 3D view is OK, and necessary during fights, but I wish the map more easily facilitated movement - or better yet, has some form of fast travel. 'Cuz the backtracking can be killer, and it's very easy to get lost in the larger maps.
For the character models... the problem with them is that they're too detailed and specific to pass as a generic representation of the portraits, and very few of the portraits match up 1:1 with the avatar parts in-game. It's a weird dichotomy that ruins both aspects of appearance. That said, I appreciate the size option - it really makes all the difference.
Shadowrun Returns, Divinity: Original Sin, and Wasteland 2 have all dropped the ball to varying degrees for avatar representation. Our last and final hope is Pillars... and, having played NWN2, that could go either way. (If I can't make an Aumaua that's blue and orange I'm gonna be upset.)
The 3D view is OK, and necessary during fights, but I wish the map more easily facilitated movement - or better yet, has some form of fast travel. 'Cuz the backtracking can be killer, and it's very easy to get lost in the larger maps.
For the character models... the problem with them is that they're too detailed and specific to pass as a generic representation of the portraits, and very few of the portraits match up 1:1 with the avatar parts in-game. It's a weird dichotomy that ruins both aspects of appearance. That said, I appreciate the size option - it really makes all the difference.
Shadowrun Returns, Divinity: Original Sin, and Wasteland 2 have all dropped the ball to varying degrees for avatar representation. Our last and final hope is Pillars... and, having played NWN2, that could go either way. (If I can't make an Aumaua that's blue and orange I'm gonna be upset.)
OfWhiteSkinOnRedLeather
Member
Have fun! Because LA drags!
What manner of PC gamer are you? The first thing you check when you get a new game are the graphics options, the second are the keybindings.
I think D:OS was fine, their character models were good enough.