JumpJeff84
Member
Couple of hours in, I'm playing on easy. No shame at all.
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Wasteland 2 |OT| Explode 'em like a Blood Sausage
- Thread starter Coreda
- Start date
LurkerPrime
Member
Man, I started playing for the first time since the patch and my performance went into the gutter on the larger maps. I don't know what happened... though I think I updated my gfx drivers inbetween (not to mention uninstalling that RAZOR SOUND thing) so maybe that had something to do with it.
The game becomes a real bummer at sub-20 FPS.
The game becomes a real bummer at sub-20 FPS.
Takes like 5 secs on my HD. No issues here either.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
It's probably the biggest "mission area" that isn't a town.
First run was before patch 2, had some issues (mostly game crashing) but the second run was after the patch and i had no real issues. Hollywood is a great area with a lot of outcomes.
This game is so good.
That's somewhat reassuring. Not that I'm not enjoying the game (I am, a lot) but if that was just an average dungeon out of dozens the size would be somewhat intimidating.
really. it takes 10-15 seconds every time I load a save. also when I start playing and I load the save for the first time it takes something like 30 seconds.
I guess it's my pc then.
Yea I am getting through Hollywood as I type this. Really cool area and no issues so far.
Ag Center is def the biggest area I have seen and I am pretty late in the game.
Ok, about 30 hours in, I like the game, I do...just wanted to post some of the thoughts I had on it and see what other people think about their experiences
Likes
-Story is good, quite interesting.
-The voice actors are excellent!
-I like the hand drawn style of the character portraits.
-Combat is not bad.
-Easter Eggs
Areas for Improvement
-I feel like every area has a Ranger quest associated with it. I really enjoyed the random moments in Fallout where you would find an area that was never mentioned by anyone. Often, it would be a government facility with automated defenses. It was such a feeling of exploration when the entire facility/location was a complete mystery. This game just lacks mystery...give me the ability to get lost, don't tell me about every area, let me guess, explore, wonder and piece together the puzzle myself.
-Combat is good, but its just missing something. I think if they had the ability to shoot for body parts, that would help. Also, it would be good if crits knocked characters down for a round, something like that. I think the combat system is a great start, just needs some growth.
-I hate to do another Fallout comparison, but I wish this game had tagged skills to vary each experience. I can tell already that one play through will be enough for me to get just about all the content and experiences. There is no reason to replay this game if you have skills balanced out on your team.
-Why not have a team of all snipers with maybe one tank? Snipers become so powerful, I just don't see the value in a lot of the other classes with maybe the exception of one strength based character for enemy bait.
-Some of the areas are just too large and lack focus. I understand they need to make them large for combat purposes, but I would be much happier with smaller zones, that had buildings tagged on the map so you know where you're going. Also, when a quest is active, it could be nice if they at least detailed what building you need to visit.
-Character creation is pretty limited, even if the creation process is limited, at least give us several dozen portraits to choose from. There is no reason to have such an extremely limited amount of portraits.
-NPCs with more character would be nice.
-Make some chests/loot static, make some really cool weapons, armor or unique items at the end of very difficult or optional areas. Keep there rest of the loot random but give us something unique to strive for.
Strong dislikes
-Nothing really, I don't hate anything about this game. I think its a grand effort, just has some areas to improve/expand on.
Actually, I take that back, I hate the
This is a GOOD game, its just hard to accept when they were so close to making something great. Anyone else have any opinions on this?
Likes
-Story is good, quite interesting.
-The voice actors are excellent!
-I like the hand drawn style of the character portraits.
-Combat is not bad.
-Easter Eggs
For instance, I found a hidden cache of ET atari games buried in the desert, now thats funny
Areas for Improvement
-I feel like every area has a Ranger quest associated with it. I really enjoyed the random moments in Fallout where you would find an area that was never mentioned by anyone. Often, it would be a government facility with automated defenses. It was such a feeling of exploration when the entire facility/location was a complete mystery. This game just lacks mystery...give me the ability to get lost, don't tell me about every area, let me guess, explore, wonder and piece together the puzzle myself.
-Combat is good, but its just missing something. I think if they had the ability to shoot for body parts, that would help. Also, it would be good if crits knocked characters down for a round, something like that. I think the combat system is a great start, just needs some growth.
-I hate to do another Fallout comparison, but I wish this game had tagged skills to vary each experience. I can tell already that one play through will be enough for me to get just about all the content and experiences. There is no reason to replay this game if you have skills balanced out on your team.
-Why not have a team of all snipers with maybe one tank? Snipers become so powerful, I just don't see the value in a lot of the other classes with maybe the exception of one strength based character for enemy bait.
-Some of the areas are just too large and lack focus. I understand they need to make them large for combat purposes, but I would be much happier with smaller zones, that had buildings tagged on the map so you know where you're going. Also, when a quest is active, it could be nice if they at least detailed what building you need to visit.
-Character creation is pretty limited, even if the creation process is limited, at least give us several dozen portraits to choose from. There is no reason to have such an extremely limited amount of portraits.
-NPCs with more character would be nice.
-Make some chests/loot static, make some really cool weapons, armor or unique items at the end of very difficult or optional areas. Keep there rest of the loot random but give us something unique to strive for.
Strong dislikes
-Nothing really, I don't hate anything about this game. I think its a grand effort, just has some areas to improve/expand on.
Actually, I take that back, I hate the
The Rail Nomads camp, the quest was unclear...and the worst part about it is how they took the...well...pretty racist route of painting Native Americans as foolish warrior types. It would have been much better if they did something like...Native Americans have one of the few stable outposts in the desert, something different, not this.
This is a GOOD game, its just hard to accept when they were so close to making something great. Anyone else have any opinions on this?
DiscoJer
Member
They aren't actually Native Americans. They just think they are, because they took the names from the name of the railroad whose tracks/trains they ride around on, and thus act more like parodies of the real thing than the real thing.
I think this was actually more obvious in the original game.
http://wasteland.wikia.com/wiki/Rail_Nomads
I think this was actually more obvious in the original game.
http://wasteland.wikia.com/wiki/Rail_Nomads
Really the only thing I dislike so far in the game is the lack of meaningful strategic choice in combat. Coming off Divinity:OS, this would have been a tall order for any game, but I really think that in the realm of turn-based RPGs WL2 -- at least so far -- is on the lower end of strategic depth.
For example, I felt like I had a lot more decisions to make in combat even in Shadowrun Dragonfall or Blackguards, no need to take out the big OS hammer. In WL2, so far, it basically boils down to this almost every turn on every character: if enemy close, move back; if not crouched, crouch; if enemy in range, shoot until out of AP; else, ambush.
I think realistic/s-f/post-apoc RPGs, especially turn based strategic ones with a party, need to work extra hard to introduce variety in combat (since they don#t have magic).
For example, I felt like I had a lot more decisions to make in combat even in Shadowrun Dragonfall or Blackguards, no need to take out the big OS hammer. In WL2, so far, it basically boils down to this almost every turn on every character: if enemy close, move back; if not crouched, crouch; if enemy in range, shoot until out of AP; else, ambush.
I think realistic/s-f/post-apoc RPGs, especially turn based strategic ones with a party, need to work extra hard to introduce variety in combat (since they don#t have magic).
ahhhhhh ok I'm thanks for informing me!
Yes, even if I enjoyed the combat overall, some more fighting options other than optimizing the balance between damage output and damage taken and the following change in enemy behaviour would've been nice.
Smokes, flashbangs, zoning tools.
Instead every fight that wasn't the occasional one where I was dropped right into it without a chance to setup was me making a killbox and the enemies rushing at me until dead.
Hm, is there any way to get past what seems like a bug in Hollywood?
Heidi wants me to talk to Veronica. Which I did, but Heidi doesn't seem to acknowledge it. When I talk to her and she asks me "have you spoken to Veronica yet?" the only dialogue option I get is "no". This persists even after I killed Schwag and got the slavery ledger / evidence, which I then took to Veronica. She tells me to "go show the evidence to Heidi", but when I do, all I get is still "did you speak to Veronica" and "no" as the only option. Is this a bug or am I missing something?
They couldn't just get away with adding stuff and changing the enemy ai, they'd probably have to rebalance all the fights in the game or at least a good chunk of them.
I'd say there isn't any chance of that happening regardless of Torment 2.
In case of a Wasteland 3, hopefully.
Shake Appeal
Member
Was this mentioned?
https://twitter.com/BrianFargo/status/524980466902769664
Next patch may include a New Game+ mode.
https://twitter.com/BrianFargo/status/524980466902769664
Next patch may include a New Game+ mode.
same. there should be another ending for that, but I haven't checked it so I'm not sure.
in any case, it's a pretty long quest since
you have to kill pretty much every leader and guard in every major city.
LurkerPrime
Member
The real killer for Wasteland 2's combat is the encounter design. Aside from some early-game environmental hazards and the occasional destructible cover, there's been very little to make the individual encounters stand out from one another. Another problem is the goal in combat never changes... it's always "kill 'em all," with no other considerations; allied AI are too suicidal to ever save, and it's never possible to talk someone down once combat has begun. Considering how much combat the game has, this is more than a little unfortunate.
Actually, even if Wasteland 2 had deeper combat mechanics I'm not confident that InXile would use them properly.
Actually, even if Wasteland 2 had deeper combat mechanics I'm not confident that InXile would use them properly.
There's no two-ways around it: Unity's done this game no favours.
That's pretty cool.
I think a big issue for me, even after reminding myself from the start of the 78 hours in both beta and release, is that this isn't Fallout. But really that's what I want the most, FO1/2 but with somewhat upgraded UI and graphics, basically PoE style of FO. That's it. New stories and adventure in the wasteland. Wasteland 2 is about as close as we've gotten to that, but it is still a vastly different game on a number of fundamental levels.
I just spent around 10 hours playing this (with a few breaks of course). I think that means it's good.
Combat is still too samey, but the rest of the game carries it, and at least there's a bit more significance to positioning with the accuracy / burst shot damage / friendly fire tradeoff.
Combat is still too samey, but the rest of the game carries it, and at least there's a bit more significance to positioning with the accuracy / burst shot damage / friendly fire tradeoff.
just noticed near the end a female portrait for a male character, gg.
I liked the idea for the final fights that
sadly the last fight was quite disappointing, just needlessly boring and long.
one of the lines I liked the most was when you enter Mr.Manners city,
"in order to enter you need to answer some questions - first one: how do you call a stranger that you just met? 1. Sir 2. Fuckface" - it probably made me laugh more thant what it should have.
I liked the idea for the final fights that
you have all the npcs that you've helped/saved during the game in Arizona. and they stay until the end!
one of the lines I liked the most was when you enter Mr.Manners city,
"in order to enter you need to answer some questions - first one: how do you call a stranger that you just met? 1. Sir 2. Fuckface" - it probably made me laugh more thant what it should have.
The clunky party control still prevents me from enjoying this game as much as I should. The inability to control formation makes the transition into combat mode painful sometimes and when you just want to reload or swap weapon on one character but forget to go into single character mode (or whatever it's called) it's just... ughh.
But maybe that's just me. I haven't heard anybody else complaining about it.
But maybe that's just me. I haven't heard anybody else complaining about it.
LurkerPrime
Member
Pressing R will make all selected character reload, and there's another button for swapping weapons (X, I think?) that functions similarly. So, pressing R-[pause]-X-R-[pause]-X, will prep everyone for battle no matter what. There's also a hotkey for each party member (F1-F6) and I think one for selecting all or none of the party members. In spite of knowing that I still forget sometimes - and it is definitely a bummer.
The only pre-battle annoyance that really gets me is how some units fan out to occupy a spot in the battlegrid, as there's been a couple times it's messed up my formation or strategy.
The default key to select all units/select a single one should be the space bar if I recall correctly.
Also selecting a unit with F1, F2 etc won't actually deselect the other units if you are in select all units mode, it will just make him the unit that will move ahead of the others (kinda, it's not that precise) so pay attention to that.
Also selecting a unit with F1, F2 etc won't actually deselect the other units if you are in select all units mode, it will just make him the unit that will move ahead of the others (kinda, it's not that precise) so pay attention to that.
Did I completely fuck up my endgame? 
((
EDIT: Yep, that was it. Fortunately I saved right before agreeing to do that and was able to tell
to fuck off.
(( Yeah, so, I kinda helped Mathias. I wanted to see what his quests were all about and just kept going with it for a while, since most of his demands were something I had already done while cleaning this or that area anyway. I did not, however, kill lieutenant Woodson for him, which was supposed to be the final task. And yet ... if I go to Seal Beach I get the instant nuclear explosion ending. How come? I guess I shouldn't have accepted to kill Woodson and told Mathias to fuck off in Hollywood?
EDIT: Yep, that was it. Fortunately I saved right before agreeing to do that and was able to tell
Mathias
Positioning kinda affect how a battle will played out, but for me it doesn't have enough depth. Since the game allows you more often than not to make the first fire, I really wished inXile makes positioning become deeper, and crucial in battle. Or perhaps, makes varied battleground that'll reflect that.
Adrian Gordon best npc.
I like how companions responded to him for quite a while, lol.
I was expecting to see a complete different ending from that long quest but I guess not.
I like how companions responded to him for quite a while, lol.
wait, how does that make sense? I meanDid I completely fuck up my endgame?
Yeah, so, I kinda helped Mathias. I wanted to see what his quests were all about and just kept going with it for a while, since most of his demands were something I had already done while cleaning this or that area anyway. I did not, however, kill lieutenant Woodson for him, which was supposed to be the final task. And yet ... if I go to Seal Beach I get the instant nuclear explosion ending. How come? I guess I shouldn't have accepted to kill Woodson and told Mathias to fuck off in Hollywood?
EDIT: Yep, that was it. Fortunately I saved right before agreeing to do that and was able to tellto fuck off.Mathias
as soon as you reach Seal Beach the nuke goes off .. because?
Really disappointed at just how unbalanced just about every aspect of the gameplay is.
Armor means nothing in battles. It's either not worth the cost and later on it's actually detrimental.
Rifles pretty much dominate every other weapon in just about every situation.
Attributes and skills being mostly disconnected is a horrible mistake. Having to pump INT so high to get a decent number of skill points is way to punishing to anyone trying to create a role-playing group in the highest difficulties. Not to mention there is no hint of logic at all in the system. So my guy with 9 STR can't brute force as well as somebody with 1 STR? What the fuck.
Really frustrated by how they handled all of this. I'm pretty certain a complete rebalance isn't something that will be done by them at this point either.
I don't expect it to be perfect, it's not like Fallout 1/2 didn't have it's share of balance problems. But damn, this whole thing is a mess and it's really keeping me from enjoying the game.
There is a mod someone released over at the Steam community page for this game. Looks very promising. Addressed lots of the weapon problems and makes other stuff more viable. I'm sure a lot more could be done with proper modding tools.
Armor means nothing in battles. It's either not worth the cost and later on it's actually detrimental.
Rifles pretty much dominate every other weapon in just about every situation.
Attributes and skills being mostly disconnected is a horrible mistake. Having to pump INT so high to get a decent number of skill points is way to punishing to anyone trying to create a role-playing group in the highest difficulties. Not to mention there is no hint of logic at all in the system. So my guy with 9 STR can't brute force as well as somebody with 1 STR? What the fuck.
Really frustrated by how they handled all of this. I'm pretty certain a complete rebalance isn't something that will be done by them at this point either.
I don't expect it to be perfect, it's not like Fallout 1/2 didn't have it's share of balance problems. But damn, this whole thing is a mess and it's really keeping me from enjoying the game.
There is a mod someone released over at the Steam community page for this game. Looks very promising. Addressed lots of the weapon problems and makes other stuff more viable. I'm sure a lot more could be done with proper modding tools.
OK just beat the game. Had zero crashes and very few bugs. Overall really enjoyed all 80 hours it took me. The story and setting were both better than Divinity, while the combat and graphics were not as good. Still really amazing that we got two great crpgs so close to each other in this day and age. Actually three considering Shadowrun Dragonfall.
Last fight is stupid. Not hard, just hated waiting around so long for npc turns. Balance is bad for sure, but it is bad in every crpg I love. Baldur's Gate, Fallout, Divinity Original Sin, etc all have shit balance at the end of the day.
Well done devs and I can't wait for Torment.
Last fight is stupid. Not hard, just hated waiting around so long for npc turns. Balance is bad for sure, but it is bad in every crpg I love. Baldur's Gate, Fallout, Divinity Original Sin, etc all have shit balance at the end of the day.
Well done devs and I can't wait for Torment.
Brute force is a pretty weird skill. It's one of those extraneous skillsets that are just kind of there as bloat, alongside the split between safecracking/toaster repair. Should just tie bashing down walls to strength. In general I wish there was more interdependency between character attributes and actual skill usage, with the most basic being the three talk skills.
Yeah, this is one of my biggest peeves with the game. In fact, unless I'm mistaken, because of the way talky skills and Cha work (talky skills give XP to your whole party, so the bonus isn't boosted by Cha) it actually makes more sense to not give them to your Cha guy.
I wish they had formations.
Even after the game came out, someone posted a comment about how battles would start and everyone would be grouped, and that 'wouldn't it be great if' party members could shoot over a crouched comrade. And a dev was like, 'good idea, I'll take that back to the team.'
I actually don't mind the manual reloading, that's very "old school jank" and the kind of stuff I find charming. Even three different dialog skills that are basically the same, and "toaster repair" and all the seemingly overlapping skills (alarm/demolitions; safecrack/lockpick/comp sci.; etc.) makes all 7 team members useful. That kind of over-detail recalls the pre-streamlined days of PC gaming. The only problem is that it's missing that "three types of crouch/prone" "press a button to lean" "target individual limbs" detail from combat -and there is a LOT of combat in Wasteland 2.
If they made Wasteland 3 and they just revamped the combat system I would be in heaven. It's really remarkable the detail when it comes to the world interaction contrasted with the shocking simplicity of its combat. I played Shadowrun Returns before this and thought that the combat there was too simple, but Wasteland 2 is way way worse.
To any inXile peoples reading this post... Hex tiles. Just keep them in mind
As Varna said above, Int is overpowered and a lot of the other stats don't really affect enough in terms of skills.
Shadowrun would lock out certain skills based on stats, and it made sense. You would look at your tree and see what stats worked best with what skills, and you would work the two in tandem. When I want to add safecracking or kiss ass to a character, I didn't really have to look at the stats, because they don't matter most of the time.
Just beat the game. Yeah, it has its flaws, most of which were already discussed to death, but I for one really, really, really enjoyed the ride. Steam says 99 hours, but I reckon it was more like 85 or so.
Bring on Pillars of Eternity, Torment and then Wasteland 3. My synthetic body is ready.
Bring on Pillars of Eternity, Torment and then Wasteland 3. My synthetic body is ready.
Because you didn't "refuse" Matthias when you had the chance and even agreed to kill Woodson, even though you didn't go through with it. Wasn't a big deal for me, I loaded an earlier save, told Matthias to fuck off and went to Seal Beach. But yeah, the ending you get by helping him isn't very satisfying. I guess it's what you deserve for betraying the rangers.
But yeah, the ending you get by helping him isn't very satisfying. I guess it's what you deserve for betraying the rangers. I'm not that far into the game, but (despite my other criticisms about the battles) I'm not seeing this. Rifles are powerful, but SMGs outperform them in close-range single-target damage output, shotguns have higher damage against groups and energy weapons work much better against heavily armed targets.
As for INT, after reading the attribute descriptions for all attributes and thinking about it during character creation I made 4 characters with 8 or 10 int and 1 luck each. Haven't regretted it so far. Certainly not a game where "rather lucky than good" applies
Shotguns proved to be useless at later half of the game though. It have low armor penetration AND low raw damage. The latter doesn't make any sense because each shot would only deal like 26-40 damage (with good shotguns to boot) per shot against enemies with 200 hp.
I can't speak for SMGs - the only weapon type I didn't use - but both my shotguns and especially heavy weapons character were killing it for me in the second half of the game, both against human-ish and armoured enemies. Rifles were awesome throughout (although not so much against robots). I was dealing 100-120 dmg with the best triple-shot shotgun, up to 120/240+ dmg with the minigun (headshot mode).
I dunno where you are, but a certain point my rifles started hitting at just under 50 meters for at least like 150/200, a 40% crit chance and about 125% accuracy. And this is against the heaviest armors in the game.I'm not that far into the game, but (despite my other criticisms about the battles) I'm not seeing this. Rifles are powerful, but SMGs outperform them in close-range single-target damage output, shotguns have higher damage against groups and energy weapons work much better against heavily armed targets.
As for INT, after reading the attribute descriptions for all attributes and thinking about it during character creation I made 4 characters with 8 or 10 int and 1 luck each. Haven't regretted it so far. Certainly not a game where "rather lucky than good" applies
The deathzone projected by them was pretty much a meatgrinder extended for a ridicolous range.
LurkerPrime
Member
Yeah... it becomes rather clear almost halfway through the game. Where I'm at, AR's are far and away the best weapon, superior in all respects. The only other useful ones are energy weapons and sniper rifles... sometimes.
Melee weapons are in a similar situation - with martial arts being the only moderately useful one. The extreme crit chance and low AP cost more than offsets the poor damage and pathetic armour penetration.
I think the core problem with the weapons has to do with AP costs, the cover system, and accuracy in general. With how long battles last, it is far more beneficial to spend every turn attacking enemies instead of reloading orpositioning/maneuvering in the hopes of superior damage. Destructible cover is a non-issue (certainly not as vital as in, say, XCOM) which renders shotguns almost entirely useless, and positioning for the more specialized weapons simply isn't worth the effort. What little explosives you have will suffice when the AR isn't up to task.
It's sort of heartbreaking how close Wasteland 2 is to "classic" status... it's like everything needed is offset by one.
How is dealing 240dmg with a single sniper shot (headshot mode, 90-100% accuracy) useful only sometimes, across one third of the map no less? I've been using the .50cal sniper for most of the second part of the game and it's been great.
LurkerPrime
Member
Beats me. I'm not far enough in the game to have accuracy trivialized quite yet.
Currently, for me, the high AP cost and smidge lower accuracy make it a less ideal weapon, in spite of its superior damage potential. Headshots aren't really an option unless I have a crazy height advantage (which has been, like, once every 60 battles.)
I will say that even in the best circumstances extreme ranges can be a bit of a bummer, since it is sometimes difficult to see the trajectory a shot will take.
uh, not really. there is a difference between having armor and not having armor when you take damage from bullets, same goes for energy weapons.
the fact that skills are disconnected and stuff like brute force doesn't make much sense didn't really bother me. it is, however, not well balanced since there are stats clearly more useful than others.
assault rifles need to be nerfed, while shotguns and pistols need to be buffed. you see this especially after the first half of the game, 3 bullets hit by assault rifles is just better than anything else.
sniper rifles are ok, the one you get in Hollywood or near the end of the game is pretty broken but before that you don't really do much damage, also if you don't have the weapon skill at high level (8+, unless you have some sick %hit mod) the headshots aren't going to hit most of the time.