Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
I don't even want to know what my body fat is. 
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Weight Loss Before/After Thread! (with pics)
- Thread starter lsslave
- Start date
Keylime
ÏÎ¯Î»Ï á¼Î¾ÎµÏÎγλοÏÏον καί ÏεÏδολÏγον οá½Îº εἰÏÏν
There's a lot of truth in that...the health benefits are obvious and awesome.
I'm just an overly vain dude who is trying to look great so I can finally shake all of these image issues I have with my body. Despite looking great with clothes on (I'm genuinely happy with how I look in my near-form-fitting clothing and business attire), I've got a nice pouch of fat in the stomach/hips/lower back area that really drives me nuts. I'm sick of looking at it.
More than likely a lot of mental reconditioning I need to do to expect nothing but slow and steady progress considering the program I'm on from here on out (unless this LeanGains protocol really jumpstarts something).
I've easily converted over to a Primal lifestyle without question. It's just how it is for me now...but it still feels like "work" some days and that work doesn't necessarily yield any noticeable benefits. I was really hoping that this bodyfat percentage test would show something like 16% so I could at least hang my hat on that.
Just still haven't reached my end-goal of having an awesome beach body (not even muscled out, just fit looking) and the time to hit it is quickly running out.
Full blown body composition changes just take longer than I'd like, or I'm not doing an extreme enough program to get the changes I want. Realistically, the only thing I'd even WANT to do differently is get a squat rack for my house to do more heavy lifting. Maybe I should invest in a weighted vest for my bodyweight routines...
Is it so much to ask to want to look awesome?!
Day 3 of cutting.
Today's food
Breakfast - 2 eggs, 1 egg white, 2 pieces of bacon
Lunch - 2.5 Italian sausage links, edamame.
Dinner - 4 oz skinless chicken tenders, broccoli, spinach dip
Snacks - 2 scoops of whey in water.
Yesterday at the gym wasn't so bad. I did all my conpound lifts, i even ripped my boxers squatting. We'll see how my 30 min run goes today.
Today's food
Breakfast - 2 eggs, 1 egg white, 2 pieces of bacon
Lunch - 2.5 Italian sausage links, edamame.
Dinner - 4 oz skinless chicken tenders, broccoli, spinach dip
Snacks - 2 scoops of whey in water.
Yesterday at the gym wasn't so bad. I did all my conpound lifts, i even ripped my boxers squatting. We'll see how my 30 min run goes today.
That's not a counterpoint. You may be able to make the point that it "seems wrong" because of that, but it certainly isn't enough to say justify that food reward = cal in cal out. You still need to justify your original claim.
You're tired of what you're eating? I would definitely say no, that is not high food reward.
Everything I've been reading (and again, the is mostly Guyenet) suggests that food reward is most powerful when combining carbs and fats in high proportions or eating multiple flavors or very intense fake flavors from processed foods. You're doing none of these things, so it's not surprising.
Please link me to Mark Sisson's post that explains how food reward is junk. I must have missed it.
Also I notice you did not respond to my request to see if Taubes has responded to Guyenet's more recent critique. Can I assume it does not exist?
Your reply seems to boil down to "This totally works, therefore I will attribute it 100% to a non-exclusive explanation and call everything else wrong."
I am not even pushing food reward specifically here, so it's kind of frustrating that you're focusing on that exclusively. Do you also have a problem with the interpretation that paleo/primal work because they cut grain antinutrients, fructose and omega 6? Because that would explain most success with low carb/high fat just as well.
It's obvious that that kind of dieting works, but there are too many gaps in the insulin hypothesis. Can you tell me how it explains the asian paradox and Kitvians and Weston Price's work, where all sorts of societies had high carb staples and zero obesity? The insulin hypothesis does not explain these particularly well, but several competing theories explain them well, along with the benefits of high fat dieting.
Been working out since early march and dropped from 213 to 202. I'm kind of in a plateau now it seems, so I started getting better about tracking my calories in a planner. I think I could have possibly been not eating enough calories given my height and activity levels (6'2 - workout 5 days a week (3 x weight lifting + 2 x light cardio).
Stubborn fat is stubborn.
Stubborn fat is stubborn.
What's your lifting routine like?
eh, I'd keep the lite cardio, but mix in some weight training during those days. Or even better would be to replace one of the cardio days with a sports activity. Cardio exercise is important.
But 6'2" @ 202 lbs seems like it would be a good height/weight ratio to me.
Indeed. There are many benefits to exercise, other than just losing weight.
I've been using one of those pull-up bars that you hang from a door the past couple months, and it's been pretty great. Sucks that I can only do 15 reps on a good day, but man, you feel those reps. :lol
You can buy one from Amazon for $20. I recommend it.
But 6'2" @ 202 lbs seems like it would be a good height/weight ratio to me.
Indeed. There are many benefits to exercise, other than just losing weight.
I've been using one of those pull-up bars that you hang from a door the past couple months, and it's been pretty great. Sucks that I can only do 15 reps on a good day, but man, you feel those reps. :lol
You can buy one from Amazon for $20. I recommend it.
Well, it varies. I like to change up the exercises every week for muscle groups. I try to increase weight with each set.
Monday (back and biceps):
All exercises are 3 x 5-8, lifting as heavy as I can
Wide grip weight assisted pullups
Seated rows
Dumbell rows
Lower back extensions
Straight bar curls
Abs (Weighted cruches or situps)
Wednesday (Chest and Tris):
Bench press 3 x 5 with a warmup and cooldown set
Incline or Decline bench (with bar or dumbells)
Chest flies
Dips
Cable pulldown or skullcrushers
Abs
Friday (Legs and shoulders):
Squats
Lunges (if I'm not gassed from squats)
Overhead press (dumbells)
Shrugs (dumbells or straight bar)
Side lateral raise (dumbells)
Abs
Each lifting session is about 45 min followed with about 10-15 min on the elliptical going light/moderate pace
Tuesday/Thursday is 45 min of the same light cardio
I measured body fat with calipers and came to around 19% BF ... diet has been fairly good, pretty low carb for the most part. Honestly pretty much cut out all wheat carbs and eat a ton of green veggies and meat. Take protein shake (46g protein) with milk once a day, but upped that to 2x. Wonder if I need more carbs and go for a 40/40/20 split? Or should I stick with the low carb?
This seems too early to be in a plateau.
Keylime
ÏÎ¯Î»Ï á¼Î¾ÎµÏÎγλοÏÏον καί ÏεÏδολÏγον οá½Îº εἰÏÏν
Oh, I've got a pull-up bar...so that's not the problem.
The problem is more that I'm not sexy enough yet!
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
This is my main issue, but I still have about 15-20 lbs to lose. I have such an odd body type though, so it's frustrating to look in the mirror and see everything above my abs looking great and below my waist looking great, but my belly matches my grandpas (thanks for that genetics) and has an odd shape with a bit of a tire to it. I'm not sure even losing the weight will make it look good due to who I inherited it from.
I would definitely change your lifting routine to something more solid. You're doing a lot of volume and unessesary work. For example, instead of two different rows, just do bent over barbell rows.
I'd post that plan in the fitness thread as they can better pick it apart. No need to change your routine to be fresh, that's men's fitness bullshit philosophy.
As someone else suggested you could try HIIT on your cardio days.
Jamesways
Member
Bingo, that'll make a big difference.
To be honest they don't really answer questions unless you're "hardcore"...I've posted a bunch of stuff over the last week and never got a single reply.
CrankyJay, try switching to Reverse Pyramid Training your lifts. I made my best gains on this system.
Wow, that's kind of interesting. Thanks for the link.
And even more interesting, I've sort of been doing this for my benches anyway, so this may just fit into what I want to do.
edit: I'll also probably start doing HIIT...
FallingEdge
Member
Post it again and I will make sure people answer this.
IMO, you are doing too much. 6 times a week? And you are doing the same workout twice a week? I'd cut it down to 3-4 and go from there.
5 days a week...not sure what workout is the same? I take Saturday/Sunday off.
Also, I pretty much do nothing after I work out. I sit at a computer all day as a programmer.
Anyone have links for HIIT for beginners? I'm not going to pretend I'm experienced at this...would just like to know what a good high intensity interval is (20-30 seconds?) and how long to rest in between?
Posting from my phone so bear with me.
I'd look into something like Strong Lifts. You do the 5 key compound lifts.
Basically day A is
Squat
Bench
Bent over row
Day B
Squat
Overhead press
Deadlift
Week one you do ABA
Week two BAB
Week 3 ABA
Etc etc
You keep adding 5lbs a workout. All exercises are 5x5, except deadlifts are 1x5. Start low to work on form. I started with just the bar on everything.
Jamesways
Member
Here's one I found. It'll give you some good reading and at least a place to start.
I'll do a 2 min warmup and then 30 sec intervals (30 sec high, 30 sec slow) for 20-30 min with a 2-4 min cooldown.
http://www.nowloss.com/the-best-weight-loss-exercise-routines-is-intervals.htm
FallingEdge
Member
My mistake. I read leg/shoulder day as 2 days.
Even if your goal is fat loss, you still need to lift heavy. Some strength/muscle loss is expected as you are on a cut which means you are eating less than you are suppose to. The goal is to minimize this as much as possible.
If you are lifting hard, you are gonna need carbs. How many grams of protein are you take in? How much do you weigh? Do you know what your current macros are and how many calories you are taking in?
Strong lifts WILL make you Stronger. I had shitty form squatting 135, and now it's a warm up.
I could barely bench 135, now I can bang out sets easily.
Not to mention all your other lifts go up. I did 230 on weighted dips yesterday pretty easily.
I'm currently no longer moving my weight up in SL and focusing on eating less to cut weight but keeping my strength.
I take in anywhere from 150-200g protein a day. And I've been low carb, but I think I really need to bump that up. I'm thinking of going to a 40/40/20 split.
I weigh 202 and I'm 6'2. I'd like to get down to 185-190 ideally before even attempting to bulk up again.
Today my macros are 50p/25/25 and I'm getting around 2000 calories.
My bench max is around 185...and I've been squatting around 135-155 (8 reps). I'm kind of scared to go up in weight until I get my form better.
Another issue with my squats is I had knee surgery a few years ago and had muscle atrophy in my right leg so that leg is almost half the size of my left one, lol =(
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
I just met my Wii Fit goal that I set back in February when I was in the upper 160s!
Very wise. It's easy to injure your back doing squats with bad form. I'd ask one of the gym trainers for some pointers.
I notice whenever I had more weight I tend to lean forward a bit more which seems to cause some strain on the lower back.
I also shouldn't be squatting in my tennis shoes, so I bought a pair of chuck taylors for the flatter sole. I should be wearing those I guess.
Welp, 20 days through keto and I've lost 15.6lbs, overall so far I've lost 41lbs. There were a few days where I ate some things I shouldn't have and I'm pretty sure that's why I stalled losing those days, but otherwise I've adhered pretty well to the mantra. It's just weird to see a pound of weight come off nearly every day. I feel great though, so *shrug*.
I have about 27 more pounds to go to hit 199 and then I'm going to start up Insanity to tone up and try to get down to around 185-190, then I'll see if I want to do any weight training. Hopefully I'll actually have some before/after pics up sometime soon.
Feels goodman.
I have about 27 more pounds to go to hit 199 and then I'm going to start up Insanity to tone up and try to get down to around 185-190, then I'll see if I want to do any weight training. Hopefully I'll actually have some before/after pics up sometime soon.
Feels goodman.
15lbs in 20 days! good shit man!
Oh. If you want to look like THIS, you'll just have to work for it.
And by work for it, I mean become a manorexic*! There's this really great diet created in Florida that can get you shredded quickly after only about a month. It's about 1200 a day, it puts you in ketosis, and, oh, you have to wear a little feeding tube. You can also take the approach of not eating after, like 3:00, and cutting down your carbs to what Posh Spice, Victoria Beckham, eats. Hint:
L'air
But if I were you, I'd be happy with the gains I was making, the muscle I wasn't sacrificing, the emotional and physical health I wasn't jepordizing just so I could look like one of the photoshopped dudes on a magazine. Be proud of yourself! You have a lot going on for you, and you're doing great work!
Of course, there's nothing wrong with wanting more, I just need for you to not go down the deep, dark path some of my fellow bitches go down just so they can look good in a pair of bikini briefs or a dance belt. It's even less important for you, 'cause you're not on stage displaying your nalgas for charity or your abs for a show every night.
*Amd no offense to the two fab dancers in that image, Steven Kuchinsky and Anton Antipov. They were two of the healthiest looking boys in that cast, but they were also the only ones I could find that were appropriate to link.
cuevas. PhD.
Member
Nice job man! Are you at where you want to maintain now?
starchild excalibur
Member
Man, I'm having some difficulty finding some good foods that are really low in carbs besides meats and vegetables. The last two days I've been having salads with grilled chicken, which have been fine, but I feel like if I don't increase my number of go-to foods it'll get harder as time goes on.
Even stuff like a single serving of yogurt (at least the brand that I have) has a whopping 34g. As someone who's trying to be sub-50, that really throws everything out of whack. Besides meats and vegetables what else have you guys had luck eating?
Even stuff like a single serving of yogurt (at least the brand that I have) has a whopping 34g. As someone who's trying to be sub-50, that really throws everything out of whack. Besides meats and vegetables what else have you guys had luck eating?
Domino Theory
Crystal Dynamics
Smoked gouda cheese, nuts, beef jerky, fish.
Oh and smoked gouda cheese.
You're welcome.
POWERSPHERE
Member
Been reading this thread, great stuff. I want to try this Primal diet, and I'm looking for a simple run down of things to get and avoid, like a summary or rule book. Mainly so can get my head around it and explain it to my girlfriend. Where do I start?
Joel Was Right
Member
My diet (not very healthy), level of consumption, nor my day to day activities have changed in the last 2-3 years and yet recently I've started to develop a gut. What can account for this?
Nevertheless I have begun exercising and eating more healthily.
Nevertheless I have begun exercising and eating more healthily.
starchild excalibur
Member
Thanks. I wonder if there are any bread substitutes out there that avoid the pitfalls of bread.
slowing of metabolism? hormonal shifts, maybe? I'm not entirely sure.
You were probably gaining a little weight every month due to your poor diet and it just got noticeable now. If you continue eating like you did, id imagine that your gut will keep on growin
Etrian Oddity
Member
Replace your yogurt with plain non-fat Greek yogurt, and sweeten it with protein powder. BAM, about 30g protein and 8g carbs right there.
Either that or he's been eating more and more without realizing it. How many people really measure their food, you know?
I said it's CICO 2.0, in other words a reworking of CICO that at the end of the day is simply eat less, exercise more because that's what it amounts to. Here's Guyenet's definition: "The food reward hypothesis of obesity states that the reward and palatability value of food influence body fatness, and excess reward/palatability can promote body fat accumulation." A response from a commenter on his site fits: "the fact that there is no real solid objective definition of palatability borders on intellectual dishonesty." i.e. it's circular reasoning and just ends up in eat less rewarding/palatable foods and you lose weight. Sure, Guyenet tries to defend himself from the CICO claim with: "What I'm saying is that food reward influences the circuits that regulate food intake on an unconscious level" Yet when asked to pin down what palatability/reward means specifically/practically, and how to define it, he states that "it's different for every person"? This is the great theory that displaces CIH? OK, so where's the real evidence for FRT other than a few poorly done studies? How does FRT explain fat accumulation from site specific insulin injections? How does FRT explain skin grafts where fat grows due to the genetic make up of the skin? How does FRT explain people with hormonal disregulation where fat only accumulates in specific areas of the body and not in others? How does FRT explain obese mothers/elderly and malnourished children in places with little access to food? There's more holes in FRT than is let on and I don't buy it. Especially when it supposedly answers things better than CIH.
You know the answer to this. Both Guyenet and Taubes have made it clear in their last articles on this argument, dated 11/25/11 (Taubes) & 11/26/11 (Guyenet), that they are done with it and have stopped conversing/debating each other. But all you have to do is read the comments section in Guyenet's last article on this debate to see various critiques of how Guyenet's last points are still just strawmen of CIH. Dr. Eenfeldt has a good counterpoint to Guyenet. You want something even more meaty? How about a good critque titled "Should we abandon the carbohydrate hypothesis of obesity?" found on Petro Dobromylskyj's Hyperlipid blog.
Not totally, but I do think that for people with metabolic syndrome, high insulin resistance, insulin hypersecretion, diabetes, and poor heart health then telling them to do the above sometimes isn't enough and you risk the person not succeeding/making things worse for themselves because of Jaminet's "safe starches" aren't safe for them. For people like that, like me and mine, we have to do low carb/keto to lose fat/improve your health. I was at stage 2 hypertension and pre-diabetic even after losing 100 lbs doing CICO while eating bland low cal foods. In my CICO diet I didn't drink anything other than water, I ate a small bowl of rice with some meat & veggies, and my other meal a day was a small sandwich. Yet I had stage 2 hypertension and it wasn't until I switched to keto that my hypertension/risk of diabetes went away. Was it purely from removing 2 slices of bread a day? Or was it that my metabolic syndrome/hypertension was so bad that it could not be cured eating a "safe starch" like rice with it's low palatability/low cal and that I needed to go VLC and remove both the little bit of bread and rice I ate with protein and fat? To me it's obvious, no starches are safe. Maybe when you have a regular metabolism, but this thread is all about significant weightloss, and most of us, at one time or another, had messed up metabolisms/hormonal disregulation.
Gary covered this in GCBC (Ch. 9 pgs. 94-104) and it's tiresome to see it trotted out over and over again as if it was never answered and is the "ah ha" gotcha that some people think it is.
Asian Paradox/Kitavans/ETC:
How do some cultures stay lean while still consuming high amounts of carbohydrates?
FiveBooks Interviews > Gary Taubes on Dieting
Why We Get Fat: Interview With Gary Taubes
Catching up on lost time the Ancestral Health Symposium, food reward, palatability, insulin signaling and carbohydrates Part II(c)
Is There Any Such Thing As Safe Starches On A Low-Carb Diet?
Please, provide these competing theories and how they explain them "well". Because so far what you've provided is FRT and I find that immensely lacking. I find that Dr. Lustig does a good job on why CIH is still very much valid. Listen to what he says about insulin's effect concerning acute vs. chronic. At the end of the day does food reward play a role? Maybe, but IMO if it does it's a second, third, or fourth order issue and not the first order issue as Guyenet proclaims. The fact that he's tried to discredit CIH makes him look all the worse and does FRT no favors.
This still doesn't look like a counterpoint. You listed a lot of quotes that have nothing to do with cal in cal out.
To be clear, I don't have a problem with your not liking food reward. I do think that calling it a cal in cal out 2.0 is an unfair caricature. Is sounds like you are saying that the mechanism food reward works through is primarily overeating, while my understanding of it is that it also heavily relies on the neurological and hormonal response to foods. Which is different.
This may be a big source of the difference in where we're coming from. I can tell you that my experiments with keto were a bit of a disaster and I immediately improved upon adding more tubers back into my diet, and taking more of a Weston Price / anti-neolithic agents of disease approach, as opposed to a primacy of carbs approach.
Perusing these, some of your links seem to reject low-carb absolutism. For example, the first link explains how things like sugar or other inflammatory agents such as lopsided omega six plays an important role - establishing that carbs in and of themselves are not necessarily the issue. The last seems to be a collection of viewpoints on the issues and has a lot of people agreeing with one another that there's basically no harm in getting 600 some calories of carbs a day, potatoes won't kill you, there's a nutritional benefit to some glucose, insulin is secondary to leptin, etc. So...thanks?
I agree that the asian paradox, WAP work, etc. are all very easily explainable, but they are explained outside of low carb extremism. As you show, to get at the answers you need to accept that there are important factors outside of simply volume of carb consumption, that not all carbs are equal, etc.
I also spoke quite specifically to the overlap between low carb diets and the elimination neolithic agents of disease. Given that the former almost always includes the latter, it can be hard to distinguish what is doing the heavy lifting. Your own links speak to the importance of this and you said you "don't totally" have a problem with that attitude yourself.
I really don't have a problem with you thinking this, but as I said above, your dismissal of it as cal in cal out 2.0 is unfair.
Etrian Oddity
Member
Down to 228 lbs today (227.8 thank you very much).
A few years ago, I would have been impatient at this rate of weight loss, but I'm extremely satisfied with it. It lets me know that it isn't just water weight loss, it's legitimate fat loss.
A few years ago, I would have been impatient at this rate of weight loss, but I'm extremely satisfied with it. It lets me know that it isn't just water weight loss, it's legitimate fat loss.
Domino Theory
Crystal Dynamics
So much weight loss going on. Congrats everyone!