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[appaws]

Oh for fucks sake, how many threads will you engage in and get destroyed before you actually learn anything?

I am almost convinced you are some sort of paid PR rep for the NRA or have a troll fetish. That is the best explanation I can come up with as to how you can go into pretty much every thread on gun laws, be owned each and every time and then return spouting the same exact flawed arguments, hyperbole and vitriol.

I guess this time you are attempting to poison the well so people have even more bullshit to wade through before getting to the core flaws in the assumptions and arguments you always trot out.

I'm an NRA member and proud of it. I have also given to GOA and Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership.

Vitriol? Me? I'm the nicest. I never turn to personal insults. I wish I could say the same for my ideological opponents...

I guess if I get "destroyed" in GAF threads that's OK....cause my side seems to keep winning and winning IRL. I'll make that trade any day.

 

[Branduil]

I'm an NRA member and proud of it. I have also given to GOA and Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership.

Vitriol? Me? I'm the nicest. I never turn to personal insults. I wish I could say the same for my ideological opponents...

I guess if I get "destroyed" in GAF threads that's OK....cause my side seems to keep winning and winning IRL. I'll make that trade any day.

If by winning you mean making sure anyone can shoot up a school anytime they want, sure. But what's a win without a little blood on your hands, eh.

 

[Diablos]

I lived in the "ritzy" area of WV (eastern panhandle, sometimes considered the exurbs of DC) for a long time and it's still pretty abysmal.

I really never want to go back unless I have to drive through. With this new law I'm even less likely to go there.

 

[Foffy]

I saw the words "training program" and am now left puzzled.

Can you now get guns without any training?

 

[Sianos]

I'I guess if I get "destroyed" in GAF threads that's OK....cause my side seems to keep winning and winning IRL. I'll make that trade any day.

i wouldn't say that the abolition of training requirements for firearm possession and concealed carry is a victory for "your side"

it kind of undermines the whole "responsible gun owner" thing that no one really believed was anything but disingenuous in the first place

to say nothing about what the staunch opposition to psychological testing - you know, that whole "mental healthcare" thing everyone redirects to and then ironically fails to ever address - implies

 

[Opto]

I saw the words "training program" and am now left puzzled.

Can you now get guns without any training?

Depends on the state and local laws. Some parts of the country you can get a gun same day as purchase with no mandated background check

 

[shadowsdarknes]

I guess if I get "destroyed" in GAF threads that's OK....cause my side seems to keep winning and winning IRL. I'll make that trade any day.

I don't think you're actually winning. I don't think these legislators are actually doing you any real favors. They're writing laws to a very specific constituency.

 

[Opto]

Easy access to guns leads to inevitable mass shootings. These shootings scare people thinking a gun will save them from this, so gun sales increase. Discussion of gun control also increases gun sales. Gun makers make profit, donations to NRA increase, guns get easier to get. Cycle goes on because no one cares enough to think just because something is a "right" it should be feverishly held on to

 

[Jorok Goldblade]

Something I've always wondered: Does anyone have any statistics on how many crimes are stopped/prevented by the victim or bystander possessing a gun

I forget the exact number (I think it was either 3% or 0.3% of active shooter situations,) but the Daily Show did a good bit on this called Jordan Klepper: Good Guy With a Gun. In that segment, I believe they brought up that unarmed civilians stopped active shooter situations at a much higher rate than civilians with a firearm.

 

[Azih]

I don't think you're actually winning. I don't think these legislators are actually doing you any real favors. They're writing laws to a very specific constituency.

Appaws may be a gun manufacturer

 

[Aselith]

I really never want to go back unless I have to drive through. With this new law I'm even less likely to go there.

Yeah, there are dudes at the border stationed and waiting for you.

 

[FyreWulff]

Something I've always wondered: Does anyone have any statistics on how many crimes are stopped/prevented by the victim or bystander possessing a gun?

I keep hearing the PR line about how guns help prevent crime, but I don't recall ever seeing any hard numbers proving that out.

Naturally, I suspect that's because the numbers would indicate that unregulated guns tend to increase the crime rate, but I'm willing to hear otherwise.

There are literally bans on gun research due to the NRA.

 

[Jonm1010]

I'm an NRA member and proud of it. I have also given to GOA and Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership.

Vitriol? Me? I'm the nicest. I never turn to personal insults. I wish I could say the same for my ideological opponents...

I guess if I get "destroyed" in GAF threads that's OK....cause my side seems to keep winning and winning IRL. I'll make that trade any day.

There is nothing morally or ethically valuable about winning in elections if you can't prove that what your "winning" achieves is objectively better for the majority or the whole of individuals and society it will affect then the alternatives.

And resting behind an appeal to the majority is a cowardice way to engage about the validity of that core argument. In this case a law like the WV law. It is however a convenient way to try and trick people you are speaking to into wasting time arguing things that are irrelevant to the core discussion.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

I'm from West Virginia and I'll say that a lot of the people here aren't happy about this. Unfortunately there are a lot of really backward people that think it's great but for the most part I've been hearing people saying they're frightened by this.

Whatever. They're basically pushing all educated or intelligent people out of the state. Nobody besides actual morons will want to live in a state with "English-only" business practices, "religious freedom" laws, and no meaningful economy outside of what's left of fossil fuels (depending on how the natural gas shit goes down).

Seriously, look at the things the republican legislature has been doing. Fortunately the religious freedom shit died in the senate, but they'll be trying again soon.

 

[Vicetrailia]

House is cards probably got all of its kniving motivations from the NRA, a symbol of corruption.

 

[Buzzman]

I'm an NRA member and proud of it. I have also given to GOA and Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership.

Vitriol? Me? I'm the nicest. I never turn to personal insults. I wish I could say the same for my ideological opponents...

I guess if I get "destroyed" in GAF threads that's OK....cause my side seems to keep winning and winning IRL. I'll make that trade any day.

You're just supporting organizations that are lobbying for more gun violence, but otherwise you're a great guy I'm sure.

 

[Raist]

 

[FyreWulff]

cause my side seems to keep winning

if "winning" means kindergardeners being executed en mass , i'd rather take the loss.

 

[Nathan_Drake]

West Virginia gunning to be number 1 in something.

We are its obesity and pillbillies...

 

[Nathan_Drake]

I really never want to go back unless I have to drive through. With this new law I'm even less likely to go there.

Yeah its pretty much Escape from New York type of life now. Beware! Only thing you need to worry about is if you hear banjo music (Deliverance reference which was filmed in Georgia not WV). but thanks for paying 6 bucks in tolls if you take the turnpike.

People really are now afraid to visit a state? Like this will change anything to normal citizens. This is not the best place to live but I felt a little more nervous when I visited Chicago and Detroit. I did not cross those locations off my lists.

 

[kess]

I saw the words "training program" and am now left puzzled.

Can you now get guns without any training?

Naw, that's only required for the hunters now

The first hunter education class taught in West Virginia was in 1968. It consisted of a short talk and a movie. In 1971, West Virginia won the NRA award for outstanding contributions to the field of hunter education. Today the course takes an average of 12 hours to complete. Over 360,000 students have passed the course since it began. This could not have been accomplished without the help of over 500 trained volunteer instructors who donate hundreds of hours and thousands of miles each year.

Endorsed by the State of West Virginia
Born on or after January 1st, 1975? Then you need to successfully complete an approved hunter education safety course before you can hunt in West Virginia.

 

[Jonm1010]

Naw, that's only required for the hunters now

So let me get this straight, West Virginia, in all their infinite wisdom, believes that society is best served by allowing people by default to conceal carry a legally purchased firearm but if you want to hunt you have to actually endure training? Presumably this is because of safety concerns and a desire to reduce incidents and illegal activity.

But West Virginia sees no value in having any sort of training for people to carry guns on public streets in crowded places stemming from similar concerns?

This fucking country, my god.

 

[sunshine and gasoline]

Perhaps the dumbest decision I've seen regarding guns in recent memory.

 

[atr0cious]

But if I took some bullshit principled stand whenever an organization I was a member of did shit I don't implicitly agree with well I'd have to go live in isolation. Well not really but that's my take on it.

So you're admittedly a part of shit groups you don't agree with, but still support them. What a sad way to live life.

 

[WarMacheen]

West Virginia is probably the saddest state in the country. Depressing all around.

As someone who moved just across the border from Virginia a couple of years ago, I concur. Bought a house in WV work in VA.

 

[Lambtron]

My state tried to pass a bill like this, and I'm so thankful it didn't pass. Fucking ridiculous.

 

[Zaptruder]

So you're admittedly a part of shit groups you don't agree with, but still support them. What a sad way to live life.

"I don't support they way they corrupt the political process, and the way they push gun proliferation into irresponsible hands, but I do like guns! Have some of my money corrupt organization that also likes guns!"

Maybe Jones should start a 'responsible gun owners organization' instead, otherwise he's just (a very real) part of the problem.

 

[Wilsongt]

Just goes to show, that if you don't control the governorship and at least one branch of congress, you're probably gonn a get fucked.

 

[GaimeGuy]

For those of you who support this legislation: Why? What is the benefit of letting anyone get a gun and conceal carry, without any training or oversight whatsoever?

 

[Man God]

So let me get this straight, West Virginia, in all their infinite wisdom, believes that society is best served by allowing people by default to conceal carry a legally purchased firearm but if you want to hunt you have to actually endure training? Presumably this is because of safety concerns and a desire to reduce incidents and illegal activity.

But West Virginia sees no value in having any sort of training for people to carry guns on public streets in crowded places stemming from similar concerns?

This fucking country, my god.

The number of lives we'd save even if we replaced every single handgun with a rifle is staggering.

 

[Zophar]

I'm an NRA member and proud of it. I have also given to GOA and Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership.

Vitriol? Me? I'm the nicest. I never turn to personal insults. I wish I could say the same for my ideological opponents...

I guess if I get "destroyed" in GAF threads that's OK....cause my side seems to keep winning and winning IRL. I'll make that trade any day.

Seeing as the NRA has made it a reality that, as a teacher, I now have to fear daily a bullet in the face just for showing up at work, I'll gladly tell any NRA supporter to fuck themselves off the Earth right to their face. So thanks, glad to hear it's working out for you.

 

[FyreWulff]

So let me get this straight, West Virginia, in all their infinite wisdom, believes that society is best served by allowing people by default to conceal carry a legally purchased firearm but if you want to hunt you have to actually endure training? Presumably this is because of safety concerns and a desire to reduce incidents and illegal activity.

But West Virginia sees no value in having any sort of training for people to carry guns on public streets in crowded places stemming from similar concerns?

This fucking country, my god.

Yep. To go hunting, you need to pass a course. Some states just let you have a gun, otherwise.

The fun part? Most hunting happens on PRIVATE PROPERTY.

 

[Zaptruder]

For those of you who support this legislation: Why? What is the benefit of letting anyone get a gun and conceal carry, without any training or oversight whatsoever?

Because I also support darwinian evolution?

Spoiler

How else are you going to breed a race of super gun wielding psychopaths?

 

[cameron]

Don't like it get off your ass and finance gun control groups. But wait, bitching on the Internet is easier.

You're more a part of the problem than myself.

"You're the real racists!"

I guess I just don't view the NRA as the baby killing organization you do. I just view them as way too into the politics and should get back to their roots just advocating responsible ownership and marksmanship.

I'd prefer it if they had no ability to really lobby politicians and if that means more gun control legislation then so be it. I don't think any organization should be able to buy politicians and policy.

But if I took some bullshit principled stand whenever an organization I was a member of did shit I don't implicitly agree with well I'd have to go live in isolation. Well not really but that's my take on it.

That's some amazing mental gymnastics. Religious fanatics would be proud. It's like supporting the Center for Medical Progress or the Family Research Council all the while wishing they were something else entirely, because reasons. How about supporting the NRA after they have become what you claim you want them to be? Or is the struggle for discounted bullets too real for Mammoth Jones?

I'm an NRA member and proud of it. I have also given to GOA and Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership.

Vitriol? Me? I'm the nicest. I never turn to personal insults. I wish I could say the same for my ideological opponents...

I guess if I get "destroyed" in GAF threads that's OK....cause my side seems to keep winning and winning IRL. I'll make that trade any day.

Interesting how you think this is about "sides" and "winning." I would rather hold a new L everyday for the rest of my life than have the current shit-show of gun violence in the States. That's the trade I would make without hesitation.

 

[Crosseyes]

Things keep swinging farther towards gun advocates but hopefully the death that comes with this law effects those who it would make it change. Death is sure to come from this but perhaps some dead officers will finally start to change things for the better.

 

[Currygan]

you know fiance was proposing a tour around rural America next year or the next

the fuck I'm never setting foot around those parts ever

 

[theignoramus]

Can't be researched.

Its madness that federal research and statistics about firearms are blocked by the gun lobby in 2016. Madness.

 

[hockeypuck]

Because I also support darwinian evolution?

Spoiler

How else are you going to breed a race of super gun wielding psychopaths?

Seeing how that for every one white gun owner who uses his gun for killing/maiming in self-defense, five white gun owners decide to blow their own brains out, it's darwinism of a different sort.

 

[theignoramus]

Uhhh...

"One congressional representative said "I don't care what the data (on gun crime) says"

Gotdamn. Gotdamn!

 

[theignoramus]

wait... What?! Why?

Because it is "Advocacy research" said one political shitheel. "It is advocacy research with a goal. And that goal is gun control"

 

[Frostburn]

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-right-to-bear-arms-2012-7

Hey at least we are making progress... Right guys? Look at this article, it could have been written last week but it's from 2012. NRA still pretends they just need to protect our 2nd amendment. How anyone can look at the history of the NRA and its lobbists and not see how evil they are is beyond my comprehension at this point. I'm not saying we should out right ban guns but some serious changes need to be made.

NRA members don't think for one second that the NRA actually cares about your life or anyone else's at all beyond what money you give them.

 

[appaws]

I don't think you're actually winning. I don't think these legislators are actually doing you any real favors. They're writing laws to a very specific constituency.

Gun makers...? Good. I want gun makers to prosper and make me lots of guns. Unlike the average gaf-lefty I don't mind if people make lots of profits producing goods for the people.

Interesting how you think this is about "sides" and "winning." I would rather hold a new L everyday for the rest of my life than have the current shit-show of gun violence in the States. That's the trade I would make without hesitation.

I'm not the one who brought it up. Someone else is keeping tabs on how badly I get "owned" or "destroyed" in every gun control thread.

I think everyone should be on the side of individual rights vs. the evil state. Unfortunately they aren't.

 

[Silver Arrows]

I'm fairly sure appwas is a troll with the statements he made

 

[Jonm1010]

I'm fairly sure appwas is a troll with the statements he made

The fact it is hard to tell is pretty sad if he isnt. But based on his post history, he very much believes the tripe he spews. In spite of most of it being, well, bullshit.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

It's kind of pathetic that the NRA, which only has 5 million members can have so much political clout in a country of over 300 million. Why haven't sane heads prevailed here?

 

[Wilsongt]

It's kind of pathetic that the NRA, which only has 5 million members can have so much political clout in a country of over 300 million. Why haven't sane heads prevailed here?

 

[Jebusman]

I'm fairly sure appwas is a troll with the statements he made

If he was he would've been banned by this point.

No, he's a true-blue believer.

We need to stick to the most literal (yet broad) interpretation of a document written over 200 years ago when no one could has possibly imagined or conceived the very way technology would have evolved, along with how efficient we got at learning how to kill people, and any and all attempts at changing this is seen as heresy and a sign that they want to take away your freedom. Literally no amount of lives is valuable enough to consider changing this.

 

[Alex_Mexico]

Gun makers...? Good. I want gun makers to prosper and make me lots of guns. Unlike the average gaf-lefty I don't mind if people make lots of profits producing goods for the people.



I'm not the one who brought it up. Someone else is keeping tabs on how badly I get "owned" or "destroyed" in every gun control thread.

I think everyone should be on the side of individual rights vs. the evil state. Unfortunately they aren't.

You do live in your own simplistic little world...

 

[7DollarHagane]

When cops are saying no on a gun law, you know somethings wrong.

I think almost all cops would be against concealed carry laws and against looser gun restrictions in general.

The less people they have to interact with that are armed the better for them.

 

[Ashes]

The only way for America to get rid of its gun problem is to get rid of the lobby supporting the industry.

Some billionaire needs to buy out gun makers and then stop the lobby funding.

Impossible to do in the short term but feasible in the long term.