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Westworld - Live in Your World, Play in Ours - Sundays on HBO

S

Solo

Member
Yes he was choking her out.

But it's likely that Ford is currently making a host version of her in his satellite bunker.
 
G

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
GarthVaderUK said:
Yep, and that's why they're still saying she's just on a vacation, giving them time to finish work on the host replacement.
Click to expand...

Yeah. He clearly has no problem exposing and covering up a murder or death in the park. So I guess there's a reason not to do the same in her case. Plus you can see in the basement, a machine beavering away on another host...

I feel I need to rewatch this episode. I enjoy Maeve getting some Ford-like powers even if what precipitated that seems a little unlikely. Those scenes where she's playing about with them in the park were great.

Facial acting was again great from Bernard's actor, and Thandie Newton also here.

I feel I need to rewatch a number of episodes now, actually.
 
B

Barnaby_Jones

Member
gofreak said:
Facial acting was again great from Bernard's actor, and Thandie Newton also here.
Click to expand...

As Ford says:
The guests don’t return for the obvious things we do, the garish things. They come back because of the subtleties. The details. They come back because they discover something they imagine no one noticed before. Something they fall in love with.
Click to expand...

Some of the facial acting in this show goes above and beyond. It's even remarked in the first episode when Bernard wants to study the subtle facial movement in Theresa's brow.
 
N

Nev

Banned
Didn't we see Elsie tell Bernard about Theresa right before she was apparently choked? How could he get from Theresa's room to Elsie's location so fast? Two Bernard hosts confirmed.

This episode was one of the best imo. I just strongly dislike William and Dolores. They're an unbearable bore at this point. It's like I'm watching some underbudget, subpar CBS show. They're definitely my Sam and Gilly. I don't give a damn about their little fake western adventures, thank god William friend showed up again, let's hope he kills him and finally triggers Dolores into skynet mode so something interesting happens in this absolute chore of a subplot.
 
K

Khoryos

Member
Nev said:
Also didn't that lady host who welcomed William to the park call the MiB "Theodore"? How could he be William then?
Click to expand...

She was talking to Teddy - which is a diminutive of Theodore. She was welcoming him "Back to the Fold" because he used to be one of Wyatt's men.
 
N

Nev

Banned
Khoryos said:
She was talking to Teddy - which is a diminutive of Theodore. She was welcoming him "Back to the Fold" because he used to be one of Wyatt's men.
Click to expand...

Right. I'm dumb. Didn't even consider she could be talking to Teddy, figured she killed him.
 
S

SynthFetish

Member
Nev said:
Didn't we see Elsie tell Bernard about Theresa right before she was apparently choked? How could he get from Theresa's room to Elsie's location so fast? Two Bernard hosts confirmed.

Also didn't that lady host who welcomed William to the park call the MiB "Theodore"? How could he be William then?

This episode was one of the best imo. I just strongly dislike William and Dolores. They're an unbearable bore at this point. It's like I'm watching some underbudget, subpar CBS show. They're definitely my Sam and Gilly.
Click to expand...

Elsie, westworld theorists will tell you that you were seeing an alternate timeline 30 years before as a flashback, but not really, of Delores.

Welcoming host(she didn't look like same actress to me, but it was a short scene so I probably missed it) was talking to Teddy not MiB.

Remember the theories! William does not exist except as a flashback even though we saw plenty of conversations and scenes not involving Deloris.

Once again, when it's shown how wrong I am, I'll come back and own up to it.
 
D

DrBo42

Member
I kinda feel like Maeve liberating other hosts to help her escape is the most boring direction they could go. Her scenes with the two butchers might be the weakest reoccurring element. It makes sense that she'd do it but there's nothing interesting about it.
 
M

MoonsaultSlayer

Member
DrBo42 said:
I kinda feel like Maeve liberating other hosts to help her escape is the most boring direction they could go. Her scenes with the two butchers might be the weakest reoccurring element. It makes sense that she'd do it but there's nothing interesting about it.
Click to expand...
I think the idea is to set up a second season with her on the outside in the real world more so than being about why she's escaping.
 
Captain Zyrain

Captain Zyrain

Member
SynthFetish said:
Elsie, westworld theorists will tell you that you were seeing an alternate timeline 30 years before as a flashback, but not really, of Delores.

Welcoming host(she didn't look like same actress to me, but it was a short scene so I probably missed it) was talking to Teddy not MiB.

Remember the theories! William does not exist except as a flashback even though we saw plenty of conversations and scenes not involving Deloris.

Once again, when it's shown how wrong I am, I'll come back and own up to it.
Click to expand...

*twitch*

*double twitch*

Dolores.

I just hope the big reveal, whatever it is.. Is done well.. Like "What door..?"
 
S

SuperStiltzkin

Member
SynthFetish said:
Elsie, westworld theorists will tell you that you were seeing an alternate timeline 30 years before as a flashback, but not really, of Delores.

Welcoming host(she didn't look like same actress to me, but it was a short scene so I probably missed it) was talking to Teddy not MiB.

Remember the theories! William does not exist except as a flashback even though we saw plenty of conversations and scenes not involving Deloris.

Once again, when it's shown how wrong I am, I'll come back and own up to it.
Click to expand...

Which human character had William spoken to that wasn't Logan? Or for that matter, which human characters have William AND Logan spoken to.

Also it's Delosris. Because of Delos.
 
K

Kor of Memory

Member
SuperStiltzkin said:
Which human character had William spoken to that wasn't Logan? Or for that matter, which human characters have William AND Logan spoken to.

Also it's Delosris. Because of Delos.
Click to expand...

He spoke to that guy who was sent out to check on Dolores because she was so far from her loop.

Also, wasn't there a couple other guests with William and Logan when they went out on that first quest?
 
S

SuperStiltzkin

Member
Kor of Memory said:
He spoke to that guy who was sent out to check on Dolores because she was so far from her loop.

Also, wasn't there a couple other guests with William and Logan when they went out on that first quest?
Click to expand...

We don't know if that guy was sent as a result of the previous scene or not. And no they never interacted with any guests. Even if they did interact with any humans, it's meaningless if those humans aren't also in scenes with Ford, Bernard, security man, Madam Maeve etc. William and Logan never saw Maeve at the saloon. She had only been the madam for a year.
 
R

RangerX

Banned
If William is the MIB how does Maeve remember him killing her and her kid as an older man when that narrative was set before she became Madam at the Mariposa, which is were William first turned up?
 
S

SuperStiltzkin

Member
RangerX said:
If William is the MIB how does Maeve remember him killing her and her kid as an older man when that narrative was set before she became Madam at the Mariposa, which is were William first turned up?
Click to expand...

William and Logan never saw Maeve at the Mariposa. They only saw Clementine, who was the original Madam before Maeve.
 
P

Paganmoon

Member
RangerX said:
If William is the MIB how does Maeve remember him killing her and her kid as an older man when that narrative was set before she became Madam at the Mariposa, which is were William first turned up?
Click to expand...

Clementine appeared to be the madame during Williams visit, Maeve wasn't seen in those scenes. Maeve's "tenure" as madame seemed to have been sort of recent (a few years?), from dialog in prior episodes, iirc.
 
R

RangerX

Banned
SuperStiltzkin said:
William and Logan never saw Maeve at the Mariposa. They only saw Clementine, who was the original Madam before Maeve.
Click to expand...

Paganmoon said:
Clementine appeared to be the madame during Williams visit, Maeve wasn't seen in those scenes. Maeve's "tenure" as madame seemed to have been sort of recent (a few years?), from dialog in prior episodes, iirc.
Click to expand...

Ah ok cheers. I must have mistakenly remembered her being there.
 
S

SynthFetish

Member
Kor of Memory said:
He spoke to that guy who was sent out to check on Dolores because she was so far from her loop.

Also, wasn't there a couple other guests with William and Logan when they went out on that first quest?
Click to expand...

Yeah, them. Point being I don't buy into it being Dolores flashbacks when she is not in the scene.

It's just bad writing to set up as characters only existing as memories of another MC, and to show those memories when the MC is absent.

Of course it could just be bad writing.
 
S

SuperStiltzkin

Member
SynthFetish said:
Yeah, them. Point being I don't buy into it being Dolores flashbacks when she is not in the scene.

It's just bad writing to set up as characters only existing as memories of another MC, and to show those memories when the MC is absent.

Of course it could just be bad writing.
Click to expand...

The MiB is also a main character so it would make sense that we would see scenes with William when Dolores isn't there. The flashback can serve a dual purpose.
 
G

GarthVaderUK

Banned
Nev said:
Didn't we see Elsie tell Bernard about Theresa right before she was apparently choked? How could he get from Theresa's room to Elsie's location so fast? Two Bernard hosts confirmed.
Click to expand...

We don't know how much time passed between the phone call to Bernard and Elsie being choked though, so it could indeed have been the same Bernard. Elsie said she would transfer all the data before coming to meet him so she could've been there for a while.


BTW looking back at that scene, Elsie was in an abandoned theatre and there are costumes around her that remind me of the kind of stuff Wyatt's men wear - I wonder if Ford re-purposed costumes from the old theatre for his new narrative. There's a pretty visible one with horns behind her at one point.

Maybe a longshot, but I've also been wondering if Maeve is part of Ford's new narrative too - has he built this new narrative especially for MIB/William? Incorporating hosts from his past in the park like Lawrence, the host that greeted him on his first visit, and maybe Maeve as well? Is he setting her up to kill MIB?
 
C

Cornballer

Member
crustikid said:
Sweet article about shooting Westworld (it's pretty technical):
http://www.icgmagazine.com/web/stay-cation/

Crazy to think the pilot was shot in 2014...
Click to expand...
Nolan interview from the same issue. Not sure if that's been posted yet.
You used a projection system to throw imagery of Westworld onto a 3D sculpted map and capture in camera, instead of CGI. Why?

Before making Interstellar, Chris had watched The Right Stuff, and he’d been struck by the use of projection effects in that film. They look great, and you can’t quite tell how they did it. He ended up using something similar that he developed with Nathan and [cinematographer] Hoyte van Hoytema [ASC, FSF, NSC]. You can digitally keystone from multiple angles. For the Control Room set you noted, we knew we wanted a technology that looked and felt unlike anything seen before. And we felt like projection was a way to create a luminous technology whose workings you didn’t quite understand. It also had a huge advantage, in shooting terms, because the reflections and interactive light are all real. We do not have to build it after the fact in a computer. The actors can interact, so it becomes more real for them as well.
Click to expand...
 
P

Pixel Fist

Member
I expected Maeve's escape story line to serve as the reveal for where the park actually is.

Maybe that's still on track and getting caught is just another step of that journey?
 
S

SuperStiltzkin

Member
SynthFetish said:
Or, it could be not that at all and the finale will be a showdown between MiB and William because they are not the same person?
Click to expand...

If there's gonna be a showdown, it's gonna be Dolores vs MiB. Assuming they're different people, there has been no set up between William and MiB. No history, no connection. And again, assuming that they are different people, William isn't the paragon white hat we've been believing he is as we could see with his insistence on killing the wounded soldier. So it's not gonna be a good vs. evil showdown. The show has been hinting at William's inner darkness the whole show.

Honestly, the show has revealed itself to be deliberately misleading with its information (Bernard and wife phone call) and timing (Bernard grabbing Elsie). The Host Bernard theory had less evidence going for it than the Two Timelines/WiB theory and it turned out to be true. So it's weird that people think we're the crazy ones for not taking the William story at linear face value. Bernard has a defined history which turned out to be false. Williams and Logans back story is still left vague and ill defined. Their place and purpose in the world and story are still vague 8 episodes in. There is mounting evidence for the theory and 8 episodes in the show has not disproven the theory. The show has, at every turn, avoided disproving it at every turn in which it could. MiB and Teddy avoid going into Pariah where Logan was being held. MiB and Teddy have not seen any Confederates. No mention or hint of Wyatt's story in Williams timeline. Monitoring Staff do not ever comment on Williams journey other than the vague reference that Dolores may or may not be with a guest. Big explosion at train escape and no one mentions it in the control room. William and MiB share the same philosophy about the park being a story and finding its meaning. Dolores asking William when she is. Flashes of Dolores being alone and then being with William.

I'm just putting this out there because if were right, I don't want people to go "wow, so cheap! that twist came out of nowhere!" Or going "you were all just being delusional and seeing what you wanted to see. You couldn't have known the twist!" Despite constantly listing clues supporting it the whole thread.

The show's entire MO is to hide, lie, mislead, and tease. So when people still think this is gonna end with good guy William gunning down Bad dude MiB in a duel, I wonder if we've been watching the same show.
 
J

John Harker

Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
andythinkpad said:
I don't think the remaining run time can handle such a grand and conclusive finale. I predict its going to be unanswered valley.

And, why compare Westworld to Dark tower when the Matrix has much more similar plot.

You have the repeated loops to gain awakening; you have the conflict between human and machine; plus questioning of reality etc etc.
Click to expand...

Is there an intent to 'solve' all of these mysteries in this 1 season alone?
 
O

Operations

Member
GarthVaderUK said:
Maybe a longshot, but I've also been wondering if Maeve is part of Ford's new narrative too - has he built this new narrative especially for MIB/William? Incorporating hosts from his past in the park like Lawrence, the host that greeted him on his first visit, and maybe Maeve as well? Is he setting her up to kill MIB?
Click to expand...
This is my theory as well. Ford has emphasized how he and Arnold "built everything" when Theresa tried to call for help through her cell but had no signal, as if he were aware of absolutely everything that is going on. Would be pretty odd he doesn't know what is happenning with Maeve, considering 1) it was his reveries update that triggered it 2), Maeve's background and previous meltdown when her daughter was killed by MiB and 3) possibly manipulating the butchers to let her do what she wants; one of them mentioned how someone with high credentials had already tampered with her.
 
J

Joni

Member
Feorax said:
It depends how the company is structured. I could see the assistant to the lead programmer having some higher level access clearance.
Click to expand...

Kor of Memory said:
She seemed like Bernards second in command. So I'd say that was pretty high.
Click to expand...

It just would seem an high access for someone who is assistance to the lead. It didn't give me the impression that it is an official high position, more like a mentor thing. She doesn't seem to be more on the in, there is a lot of stuff she didn't know,... When I heard high, I personally assumed the level of Ford, Arnold or the boss lady. Not something you would give a normal programmer.
 
K

Kor of Memory

Member
Joni said:
It just would seem an high access for someone who is assistance to the lead. It didn't give me the impression that it is an official high position, more like a mentor thing. She doesn't seem to be more on the in, there is a lot of stuff she didn't know,... When I heard high, I personally assumed the level of Ford, Arnold or the boss lady. Not something you would give a normal programmer.
Click to expand...

See, the way I saw it is these guys are entry level positions. They probably don't even know who Ford is, or have barely ever seen him. When they say high up, they probably mean floors, because behavior is up on a higher floor. Because that's how a low level employee typically thinks.

Probably everyone in that building has more authority and permissions than they do.
 
G

GarthVaderUK

Banned
Operations said:
This is my theory as well. Ford has emphasized how he and Arnold "built everything" when Theresa tried to call for help through her cell but had no signal, as if he were aware of absolutely everything that is going on. Would be pretty odd he doesn't know what is happenning with Maeve, considering 1) it was his reveries update that triggered it 2), Maeve's background and previous meltdown when her daughter was killed by MiB and 3) possibly manipulating the butchers to let her do what she wants; one of them mentioned how someone with high credentials had already tampered with her.
Click to expand...

Yep, and if MIB/William is the owner of the park now or the head of the board, Ford has plenty of motive to want him dead considering how he seems to be in a constant (and bloody) fight with the board to protect his creations.
 
S

Sane_Man

Member
I honestly find it hard to comprehend how there's still people in here who don't think William is MIB. It's so blatantly obvious now. I'd be legitimately shocked beyond belief if it turned out he wasn't.
 
S

Solo

Member
This is amazing. Follow the quote to see the thread).

LumpOfCole said:
j6WY8Vl.jpg
Click to expand...

LOLLLLLLLLLLLL
 
G

GarthVaderUK

Banned
Kor of Memory said:
Except William's goals seem very different from Charlette's.
Click to expand...

I'd guess something happens to William 30 years ago which changes his view of the park, perhaps breeding resentment and setting him on the MIB path. He seems to want to discover Arnold's secrets in the present park which maybe also ties into the board's desire to get the host data, and MIB has demonstrated animosity towards Ford when we saw him menacingly joke about gutting him when they had that sit-down meeting in the park. These men definitely have a history and don't seem to like each other much :)
 
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