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[_Angelus_]

What does Nintendo need in order to suceed with the DS ? Simple. Hold onto their 3rd party support with a vengeance. Whatever they need-its drastic that they cut some sweet deals so that they continue to devote good support for the handheld for a long time to come.

Because I think we may be seeing the PSX effect all over again once the PSP arrives. Sony has an awfully big marketshare and a very devoted following. They know how to do many things right in the console wars,I think it'll more than likely spill over to the handheld battle ahead too. Nintendo had better be weary of this. More than anything-I hope its a back and forth battle between the two companies. I hope for a good fight I think it'll go down that way. Where both companies are always trying to out manuever the other matching the other and we all benefit greatly from it.

Castlevania DS is a really nice start. Continue the 3rd party love Nintendo.

 

[aoi tsuki]

The resolution isn't bad. It's better than a cell phone Browsers on cellphones now have technology to rearrange the pages for viewing on a phone, and it apparently works quite well. With the better resolution that DS can offer, it could do an even better job.

The stylus would make scrolling horizontally a cinch anyway.

I'd prefer to use a DS on GAF, that's for sure. All this posting

"Cellphone web browsers" and "works quite well" don't seem to fit together. Even with both screens used to browse and navigation and a collapsable keyboard on the touchscreen, the horizontal resolution is still poor. If i had to choose between the same browser on both portables, i'd probably go for the PSP version simply for the horizontal resolution. i also think a PSP browser would be more likely to offer a more PC-like experience, with downloading, bookmark importing, and possibly simultaneous music playback given that fact that it has a built in Memory Stick slot. But until i see otherwise, i hold to my stance that portable browsers suck, and you'd be better off using a laptop, PC, or ultra portable PC.

But getting back on-topic, really what the DS needs are just good, original, and ideally exlusive games that take advantage of the hardware. The DS will always lose against the PSP in terms of graphics and sound since it's ridiculously underpowered compared to the PSP. i think the strength of the DS will be much like the Gamecube -- Nintendo games. It's their concept and they're most likely the ones to take advantage of the system, specifically the dual-screen concept, in the best ways.

In all honesty, I think they should redo the look of the hardware entirely. Its time for DS-SP. I really believe that the look of the system hurts it's mindshare.

The design is set. There's no point wasting resources redesigning it this early. And if they moved the screens closer, it would destroy the illusion of movement between the two screens. In some of the Mario mini-games, characters move from one screen to another. If the screens were closer together, it would kill the timing when the characters are in the "dead space" between both screens.

i agree that the design of the system could be sleeker. Frankly, they should've copied Sony's Clie design with a plain outside with bevelled edges.

i don't like the way the top half of the DS is smooth and concave, but the bottom half has indentations for the screens and controls. It almost looks as if it were two different systems thrown together.

 

[mashoutposse]

As afr as aesthetics are concerned, the DS would be more attractive if its finish was more like the glamor shots. The chrome-y look combined with a less chunky design would go a long way.

One thing abuot the PSP is that, in person, it looks as good or better than the marketing pictures.

 

[jarrod]

A $50 price drop should do it. They already have the right software, the right developers, the right branding, the right battery expectancy and the right featureset... now they just need the right price.

 

[paul777]

When people first look at the systems, they'll see PSP = sex, DS = teh kiddy. Seriously, the DS's combination of blocky design, old-school speaker dots, and small screens relative to the size of the system gives a first impression of either Fisher Price, or simply outdated tech in many peoples eyes.

Who are these people? I've never met anyone in real life that associates sex with electronics. Most people I know care about function (and actual content). DS shines in that area regardless of personal taste. Which is more than I can say of the PSP's supposed aesthetic strength (cause for me, it just looks like a shiny remote control).

 

[gofreak]

i also think a PSP browser would be more likely to offer a more PC-like experience, with downloading, bookmark importing, and possibly simultaneous music playback given that fact that it has a built in Memory Stick slot.

I've covered the browser/res issue as best I can, but with regards to this, you could do all that with DS if they packaged a SD card adaptor with the app. You could plug the app(s) into the DS slot, and the SD card adaptor into the gba slot, and away you go.

I also think the touch screen would lend the DS a far better PC-like environment. You could actually drag-and-drop

edit - and yeah, I'm sorry for harping on about pda functionality over games, but it's something I'm really keen to see happen..

 

[Raistlin]

Who are these people? I've never met anyone in real life that associates sex with electronics. Most people I know care about function (and actual content). DS shines in that area regardless of personal taste. Which is more than I can say of the PSP's supposed aesthetic strength (cause for me, it just looks like a shiny remote control).

:lol

Sorry ... poor metaphors. By sex, I mean that people think it looks like really sweet, fresh (new) technology. People seem to view it in a similar light as the iPod. As for the DS, I think most people think it looks 'old tech' and outdated in comparison.

 

[Raistlin]

edit - and yeah, I'm sorry for harping on about pda functionality over games, but it's something I'm really keen to see happen..

Me too ... I'd get one in a heart beat if it offered good PDA functionality.

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

I think the DS needs a broader range of software to appeal to an older audience, although I think I've felt like that about most Nintendo systems for awhile. I look at the DS line-up currently and I don't see too much that I want to play just yet. I'd also agree that the DS (and PSP) needs some unique games, not just ports. New characters/properties need to be created and developed. I really don't want to see Pokemon or another Nintendo character with a "DS" added to the title. They really need something unique to make people say "cooool" outloud when they see it. The PSP does this right now with just it's looks and screen.

KFJ

 

[aoi tsuki]

I've covered the browser/res issue as best I can, but with regards to this, you could do all that with DS if they packaged a SD card adaptor with the app. You could plug the app(s) into the DS slot, and the SD card adaptor into the gba slot, and away you go.

I also think the touch screen would lend the DS a far better PC-like environment. You could actually drag-and-drop

edit - and yeah, I'm sorry for harping on about pda functionality over games, but it's something I'm really keen to see happen..

i agree that an SD adaptor could be packaged with the browser, i just don't see it happening given the risk in releasing it. My opinion would be different if Nintendo had planned this from the beginning and released an adaptor like the upcoming DS movie player that played music and movies, and functioned as additional storage to be used by developers. Or better yet if they had something similar in the DS already.

Don't get me wrong, PDA apps were one of the first things i thought of when i heard the DS would have a touch screen. For a small segment of the market (myself included), it makes sense. Maybe when the DS userbase grows.

 

[gofreak]

i agree that an SD adaptor could be packaged with the browser, i just don't see it happening given the risk in releasing it.

Why would it be a risk? I'm thinking of something exactly like the media player. If they're releasing that, why not release apps on similar cartridges with a slot for SD cards? They can just package them as DS-only software, avoiding the situation of people buying them thinking they'll work with a GBA. They're selling the media player for $50, and there's other tech in there asides from the SD slot, so I think cost-wise it would also be feasible.

But yeah, it would be nice if they were thinking about the possibility of this when making the media player, allowing data on the SD card to be accessible from the DS using it. Perhaps they have? I'd imagine it's probably a software issue. If it could be done, then you could listen to music whilst using your PDA apps if you happened to have a media player for SD card access They could release a seperate cartridge cheaply which would just give access to SD cards and no media playing functions, perhaps bundling it with each of the DS apps. All of that, though, would seperate the app from the cartridge, onto a DS card, which might needlessly complicate things.

I guess the absolute best solution would be to release these apps on media player cartridges, assuming they allow DS software to access SD card data.

 

[aoi tsuki]

Why would it be a risk? I'm thinking of something exactly like the media player. If they're releasing that, why not release apps on similar cartridges with a slot for SD cards? They can just package them as DS-only software, avoiding the situation of people buying them thinking they'll work with a GBA. They're selling the media player for $50, and there's other tech in there asides from the SD slot, so I think cost-wise it would also be feasible.

But yeah, it would be nice if they were thinking about the possibility of this when making the media player, allowing data on the SD card to be accessible from the DS using it. Perhaps they have? I'd imagine it's probably a software issue. If it could be done, then you could listen to music whilst using your PDA apps if you happened to have a media player for SD card access They could release a seperate cartridge cheaply which would just give access to SD cards and no media playing functions, perhaps bundling it with each of the DS apps. All of that, though, would seperate the app from the cartridge, onto a DS card, which might needlessly complicate things.

I guess the absolute best solution would be to release these apps on media player cartridges, assuming they allow DS software to access SD card data.

The risk comes in companies having to manufacture an SD reader compatible with the GBA slot and develop whatever software they're releasing, like a web browser or PDA software. It's the added cost of SD reader development that might scare smaller developers, who are likely the ones to release these kind of niche market products, away.

It's this sense of micromodularity that bugs me. i don't have a problem with the DS being focused on gaming and not having music or movie playback capabilities built in. i do have a problem with the one (well, two) trick pony movie player card, assuming that's truly all it does. i don't want to buy separate yet similar SD-capable carts for movie and music playback, PDA functions, and web browsing, and have to pull my SD card out of each. Make one card to do it all.

 

[Mr. Lemming]

More multiplayer games with single pack downloadability.

 

[Borys]

That's an easy one:

- new multiplayer Pokemon
- new SMW (coming, right?)
- new Final Fantasy game with menu (materia/ junctions/ abilities) on the touchscreen

 

[gofreak]

The risk comes in companies having to manufacture an SD reader compatible with the GBA slot and develop whatever software they're releasing, like a web browser or PDA software. It's the added cost of SD reader development that might scare smaller developers, who are likely the ones to release these kind of niche market products, away.

Ah, I see now what you mean. But I was intending originally that if pushed, Nintendo themselves would partner up and publish such software. Or if they didn't want to be directly associated with non-game software, then just fund development through something like Q-Fund or whatever.

It's this sense of micromodularity that bugs me. i don't have a problem with the DS being focused on gaming and not having music or movie playback capabilities built in. i do have a problem with the one (well, two) trick pony movie player card, assuming that's truly all it does. i don't want to buy separate yet similar SD-capable carts for movie and music playback, PDA functions, and web browsing, and have to pull my SD card out of each. Make one card to do it all.

All of those are valid concerns, but it'd hardly kill the idea from the get-go. I'm hopeful, and perhaps it really is just hope, that the media player being released will be adaptable to data access usage for such software though. And then, as said before, the media player cartridge could be the entry point for all your "beyond game" needs.

 

[Amir0x]

The design is a matter of taste of course, but I don't think it's offensive at all. I think it's a fairly neutral design. It's not as sexy as PSPs, imo, but I think it's acceptable. It's from the same retro-industrial lineage as GC and GBASP. I myself like it. It's difficult to see how they could get around some of its less appealing features (the "wasted" space on the top half, perhaps). I think the changes they made to the speakers are nice though (perhaps would have been better if they were more central). I do think the design issue is overestimated though - not because it's not important but because the DS design isn't that bad to start off with.

I agree with you there. The DS does not look bad at all. Perhaps it doesn't hold up to the PSP, but it's not an offensive design. The old DS before the redesign was offensive though. That thing was hideous. Frankly, that redesign was the smartest thing Nintendo did since it announced the thing

 

[Morts]

My opinion of the DS is currently pending based on how Viewtiful Joe and Crystal Chronicles end up looking. I almost hope that FF:CC doesn't come out too soon, because I'd like it to take advantage of any online system that Nintendo comes up with, if any. In fact, if there ends up being online play for the DS, and a decent amount of games to take advantage of it, I'd buy a DS in a second.

I'd also really like to see some RTS games. Starcraft or Age of Empires would play great with the touchscreen. And if they were online (or at least single-cart multiplayer) - ooh baby.

 

[0wn3d]

I really want to see a super special Pokemon RPG on DS.

- Online. PLEASE!
- Top screen, enemy Pokemon and trainer. Bottom screen, your Pokemon and touch menu. I don't think the Pokemon *have* to be 3D but the battle effects should implement 3D. Bring back the Pokemon animations from Crystal, and give some animations to the trainer.
- More focus on different battle styles, like 2 VS 2.
- Return of day/night system and weekday system, and have a "season" and weather feature like Animal Crossing.
- Easy transfer of old Pokemon to new game. Put it Sapphire or Leaf Green into cartridge slot, have Pearl/Diamond in the DS slot, and go from there. "Time Machine" like GSC.

 

[TheDiave]

I think the DS has everything it needs to succeed, at least from a hardware standpoint. Granted, it does suck to look at DS and PSP shots side-by-side and see just how far behind the DS is in terms of its 3D capabilities, but when have hardware limitations stopped Nintendo from making fun games? Hell, I play my GBA SP more than anything else.

On the software side, well, that's another story. Of all the launch games, there's only two that are worth owning, to me. One I already own, being Mario 64 DS, and the other is Tiger Woods (loved 2003 on GC). Other than that though, pickins are slim.

 

[Deg]

Everything is fine so far. For a mainstream system its actually superb despite being unconventional. Quite forward thinking. I think hardcore gamers might have some wants but its looking great.

 

[Memles]

A $50 price drop should do it. They already have the right software, the right developers, the right branding, the right battery expectancy and the right featureset... now they just need the right price.

That's about my view on the situation; Based on sales, it is technically a success even with a barren US Launch Lineup and going almost head-to-head with the PSP in Japan. Keeping it a success, software wise, is really quite simple. They have enough software in the pipeline to keep it in the same general area it is now. I'm personally waiting for compelling software, and wouldn't dream of paying $200 Canadian for the thing, but there has been millions of people worldwide that haven't been as discerning.

From a software standpoint, I am not compelled to buy one, but Nintendo has to be doing something right if all those people HAVE. Once the software lineup bulks up a bit, and the price drops, I don't think there's anything really standing in the way of the "success" of the system when it's gotten so far already.

Now, if we're talking successful from a game development standpoint, rather than sales, it's a whole different monster. Yeah, there are things the DS Software lineup needs in order to be perfectly well-rounded and spectacular to gamers, but to casuals? There's a message board I occasionally read for kicks that has a video game section peppered with a whole lot of SM64DS posts. These are kids 13-15 for the most part (Lousy punk kids), and they're eating it up. They have Mario, and otherwise they seem to not even give a shit about "future lineups". To these less than discerning customers, the Nintendo DS is already a success.

 

[Tsubaki]

Harmony of Dissonance 2.

Freakin a... NO!

Sequels of garbage games aside, what the DS really needs is games from Nintendo to show off that the DS is more than just a glorified Gameboy Advance with a 2nd screen for map. I love the DS' potential. But until Nintendo shows off what the potential is, it will be a dumping ground for ports and plain regular games. In that race, the PSP will win.

 

[radioheadrule83]

MAKE IT A PHONE!

If it's at all possible, I think they should release a GBA cart for the DS which houses a phone SIM, with IMEI number and built in FM antanae. Instant mobile phone. It could also flash the DS hardware so Pictochat could be used online via cell to talk or initiate games with people anywhere.

Now if people wanted a phone/game device they could always buy an NGage. But they'd have to put up with inferior buttons, one smaller screen with a curious ratio, with games and graphics that are nothing to write home about. OR, in a dream world, they could buy an add-on for Nintendo DS, and make the stylus/touch-screen functions along with the Mic/headset all that much more useful.

I'd like to see what kinda gaming is possible over GPRS or something.

 

[Unison]

It's already succeeded, especially if "success" = "profit". It's tough to imagine Nintendo losing money on the DS at this point.

If "succeed" means "beat PSP" though, I think it's too early to tell what needs to be done, if anything.

 

[Timbuktu]

I think a DS-SP is inevitable, given time, but I think it is fairly difficult to come up with a design that is robust and sexy at the same time, if not impossible. Somehow 'sexy' hardware like PSP or iPod needs that sense of being fragile, some thing that needs to be looked after and cared for. I've always appreciated how unbreakable Nintendo hardware is and I hope they never give that up even if it means DS-SP will never be quite as good looking as PSP.

Software-wise, Nintendo has that Jump game for Japan, but it needs something that big for the west as well. For me, all I need is Advance Wars really. And yes, a brand new online Pokemon would be nice. Nintendo hasn't really done anything with it for years and I think the time really is right now for Nintendo to get into online gaming.

But if succeeding means beating PSP, though, then I think Nintendo needs Sony to slip up at some point, get into financial trouble and call quits with the handheld market, because Nintendo cannot 'win' otherwise.

 

[imastalker co.]

if you check out Pictochats patent, one of the features it offers is voice mail.

if they really want to seal the deal, they're gonna have to turn the DS into some kind of Broadband phone PDA type of thing.

getting AIM on the system would be a great start. the games will come in due time.

 

[ZombieSupaStar]

DS needs games suited for DS



dont try and shoehorn games developed for primarily analog control on the touchscreen


come up with something new


dont try and be gba/n64 1.5

 

[Hagindaz]

A sleeker remake with larger screens and a built-in SD card slot with bundled multimedia and PDA software for holiday 2005 seems most likely if Nintendo's ever going to do it. That way all the hardcore Nintendo fans have already bought one and will buy the remade version for the new features, and the general public will be more attracted to the sexier look and PDA software. Nintendo would definately release GBA2 in 2007 if they ever released the redesign. Nintendo would be screwing all of their fans if they did DS in '04, DS dx in '05, and GBA2 in 2006.

 

[Sanjuro]

Just giving my two cents, I picked up my DS last week. I think it has succeeded already, with many other great games on the horizon and one of the best games of all time Super Mario DS, i believe it wins. I didnt even want to pick up Mario, but once I did and got into, I fell in love with it as much as the original version.

As for the PSP, it looks slick, but their launch has even less big games scheduled than the PSP. Metal Gear could have been the big amp, but I seriously doubt the majority of people will take to it as well as the other games in the series. With the loading times, and the battery life issues, I'm still confused why so many people are talking about the demise of the DS already...

Honestly I would like them to sell about the same ammount and have a good ole SNES/Genesis war again.

 

[duckroll]

Just giving my two cents, I picked up my DS last week. I think it has succeeded already, with many other great games on the horizon and one of the best games of all time Super Mario DS, i believe it wins. I didnt even want to pick up Mario, but once I did and got into, I fell in love with it as much as the original version.

As for the PSP, it looks slick, but their launch has even less big games scheduled than the PSP. Metal Gear could have been the big amp, but I seriously doubt the majority of people will take to it as well as the other games in the series. With the loading times, and the battery life issues, I'm still confused why so many people are talking about the demise of the DS already...

Honestly I would like them to sell about the same ammount and have a good ole SNES/Genesis war again.

The only people talking about the demise of the DS are those of us already with a PSP. Don't worry, soon you're understand.

 

[CrimsonSkies]

Better graphics.

 

[Sanjuro]

The only people talking about the demise of the DS are those of us already with a PSP. Don't worry, soon you're understand.

I have a PSP, me and my friend imported one. We bought Vampire Chronicleand Ridge Racer.

 

[Sanjuro]

Better graphics.

I care more about fun gameplay and quick speeds in a handheld. PSP isn't a bad system, but to me it's limitations are far more concerning than the DS.

 

[DJPS2]

I care more about fun gameplay and quick speeds in a handheld. PSP isn't a bad system, but to me it's limitations are far more concerning than the DS.

So... what you're saying is that, although the PSP dwarfs the NDS in terms of visuals, the games play like shit on the PSP? After all, you've basically inferred in your above quote that fun gameplay only exists on the NDS. I'm also interested in hearing what these "limitations" are.

I'm sorry, but NDS games-- in comparison to PSP titles-- look a full generation behind. N64 titles looked bad enough... I'm not all that interested in having a handheld that reminds me of just how bad they were.

 

[Brofist]

I have a PSP, me and my friend imported one. We bought Vampire Chronicleand Ridge Racer.

im betting you dont really have one

 

[Sanjuro]

So... what you're saying is that, although the PSP dwarfs the NDS in terms of visuals, the games play like shit on the PSP? After all, you've basically inferred in your above quote that fun gameplay only exists on the NDS. I'm also interested in hearing what these "limitations" are.

I'm sorry, but NDS games-- in comparison to PSP titles-- look a full generation behind. N64 titles looked bad enough... I'm not all that interested in having a handheld that reminds me of just how bad they were.

Don't try to turn what I said into somthing negative. I was refering to the quote "better graphics" by saying..

Fun gameplay > Better graphics

I didn't say the PSP was incapable of devolping fun games to play. If your soo intrested the limitations are low battery life and loading times.

 

[DJPS2]

Don't try to turn what I said into somthing negative. I was refering to the quote "better graphics" by saying..

Fun gameplay > Better graphics

I didn't say the PSP was incapable of devolping fun games to play. If your soo intrested the limitations are low battery life and loading times.

Your inference was a negative... I didn't have to turn it into anything.

The low battery life argument is a point of contention... there are a bunch of different stories out there regarding this issue, so I don't know if it's as "bad" as you think.

In terms of loading times, this really gets me. Why don't why just go back to cartridges, then? Screw having more storage space. You must think that Nintendo was 100% correct in keeping the N64 cartridge-driven, based on that theory. I'm sorry, but if I have to wait a few extra seconds for a game to load up that actually looks like it came from this generation-- instead of from 199x-- I don't mind.

 

[Sanjuro]

Your inference was a negative... I didn't have to turn it into anything.

The low battery life argument is a point of contention... there are a bunch of different stories out there regarding this issue, so I don't know if it's as "bad" as you think.

In terms of loading times, this really gets me. Why don't why just go back to cartridges, then? Screw having more storage space. You must think that Nintendo was 100% correct in keeping the N64 cartridge-driven, based on that theory. I'm sorry, but if I have to wait a few extra seconds for a game to load up that actually looks like it came from this generation-- instead of from 199x-- I don't mind.

Your trying to make it sound like I'm being stupid now. I never said anything about the N64 once in any of my statements. I didn't agree with them making cartidges. This is a handeld system if you haven't read the thread I dont want to waste my small battery life on long loading screens. Also for your past statement, none of the DS games I have played look anything like N64 games. None of them are blurry and they are very fluid.

 

[Scrow]

What else do you think the DS needs to succeed?

just really good marketing.

 

[gofreak]

In terms of loading times, this really gets me. Why don't why just go back to cartridges, then? Screw having more storage space. You must think that Nintendo was 100% correct in keeping the N64 cartridge-driven, based on that theory. I'm sorry, but if I have to wait a few extra seconds for a game to load up that actually looks like it came from this generation-- instead of from 199x-- I don't mind.

Well, it's more than a few seconds in some instances. And the dynamics of the handheld space are different than the dynamics at home. Loading times aren't as bearable on the move as at home, imo.

But to be honest, I don't think this will define or decide this battle.

 

[Sanjuro]

Well, it's more than a few seconds in some instances. And the dynamics of the handheld space are different than the dynamics at home. Loading times aren't as bearable on the move as at home, imo.

But to be honest, I don't think this will define or decide this battle.

I'm with you there, I think it will improve as more developers get used to the hardware. The PSP is an impressive peice of hardware, the battery life is an issue they cannot escape at this point though. I'm looking foreward to playing great games on both of these systems in the future.

 

[Phoenix]

They need to focus on games that take advantage of the touch screen. I'd almost go as far as to say putting that in the approval process for new titles.

This A/Video thing they've come up with is 'meh' because of the screen size so that's not really going to help them in the long run IMO. But since you have a differentiation feature - focus on it as much as possible. Do games that take in text too because that's a lot easier on the DS as well.


As a person that Nintendo will have to convince to even consider another Nintendo platform - ever again. I'd say that the big thing for me is games, games, games. Give me something that I haven't seen before in a way that I haven't played it before. Otherwise I don't have a lot of reasons to not just get my PSP and live with my GBA.

 

[bjork]

PSO DS. Easy

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

Zelda

Then I'll buy

 

[duckroll]

I'm with you there, I think it will improve as more developers get used to the hardware. The PSP is an impressive peice of hardware, the battery life is an issue they cannot escape at this point though. I'm looking foreward to playing great games on both of these systems in the future.

Ok here's a challenge. How long is the battery life on your PSP and when was the last time it ran out while you were playing something outside? I'm sick of hearing people mentioning the battery life as a negative point with no real life examples. It's like a bunch of a cultists knocking on my door telling me that I -might- get struck by lightning tomorrow unless I worship the goat god.