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What is the 360's biggest mistake?

1

123rl

Member
I know this won't work and I'll be accused of being a fanboy or something, but I wanted to ask this from a purely technical point of view. I like the 360 so far, and I have one on order, but it seems to me that they're making big mistakes with it:

No Hard Drive
Using DVD instead of waiting for a higher capacity format
No HDMI/DVI for DRM material

Those are, IMO, the three biggest problems with the console. But how much of a problem are they going to be? Will the lack of a hard drive mean longer load times? Or will the increased ram mean less loading screens because more data can be streamed during gameplay? Will a 9Gb disc mean shorter games or the return of two disc (or more) games? It's this kind of information I'm looking for since it seems like the press aren't interested in this kind of thing

Any opinions (on either side of the fence) are welcome. Thanks :)
 
123rl said:
I know this won't work and I'll be accused of being a fanboy or something, but I wanted to ask this from a purely technical point of view. I like the 360 so far, and I have one on order, but it seems to me that they're making big mistakes with it:

No Hard Drive
Using DVD instead of waiting for a higher capacity format
No HDMI/DVI for DRM material

Those are, IMO, the three biggest problems with the console. But how much of a problem are they going to be? Will the lack of a hard drive mean longer load times? Or will the increased ram mean less loading screens because more data can be streamed during gameplay? Will a 9Gb disc mean shorter games or the return of two disc (or more) games? It's this kind of information I'm looking for since it seems like the press aren't interested in this kind of thing

Any opinions (on either side of the fence) are welcome. Thanks :)
Click to expand...


this is the biggest problem they will face.
 
No Hard Drive - Cheaper system to manufacture, reduces price. No other next gen machines are having it as standard, so no competitive disadvantage here.

Using DVD - Tried and tested technology, current 16x speed faster than newer gen 1x drives.

No HDMI/DVI & DRM - I'm not sure I know anyone who would want DRM.


I mean honestly, the system isn't even out yet, what is with all the negativity.
 
Kabuki Waq said:
this is the biggest problem they will face.
Click to expand...

I disagree. I think it's the lack of the standard HD.

You can always have more discs. Also, I would expect more cut scenes to be rendered real time ala RE4.

Xbox was built up around the HD. It was a selling point to many gamers. I am willing to bet there are going to be a lot of people who are going to be pissed when they actually find out this one doesn't come with it standard.
 
Dr_Cogent said:
I disagree. I think it's the lack of the standard HD.

You can always have more discs.

Xbox was built up around the HD. It was a selling point to many gamers. I am willing to bet there are going to be a lot of people who are going to be pissed when they actually find out this one doesn't come with it standard.
Click to expand...


no other system is using HD and well the casuals wont care that much.


on the otherhand using 5 dvds per game while ps3 launches with all games on one disc is gonna look bad.
 
Being the 360!!! hah! there, I said it!!

no but seriously, it seems like something pulled together to beat Sony to the market, Xbox 1.5 if you will..
 
I thought using DVD was a big problem too but if it means swapping discs after 10-15 hours of gameplay then I wouldn't be too bothered. Is it true that Oblivion's audio almost fills half a disc? I'm sure I read that somewhere

Xellotah said:
No HDMI/DVI & DRM - I'm not sure I know anyone who would want DRM.
Click to expand...


Nobody wants it :lol But by not including it, it means that the console can't play anything that has DRM encoded into it. If you try and stream DRM material over component/VGA then it'll be down-converted to 480p. Which is a real kick in the balls considering you NEED Media Centre to stream it anyway (and MCE could stream it at 720p :lol )
 
DCharlie said:
poor PR and Hype management by MS.
Click to expand...

I'd say that is a mistake that can be rectified when they're not rushed trying to poop out games at launch. Not to mention that's only among gamers, they haven't started to hype the casuals who are dumb enough to fall for the real marketing blitz.
 
Kabuki Waq said:
no other system is using HD and well the casuals wont care that much.
Click to expand...

But the Xbox did. And now its going to be perceived as a downgrade IMO.

Kabuki Waq said:
on the otherhand using 5 dvds per game while ps3 launches with all games on one disc is gonna look bad.
Click to expand...

Nah, I doubt there will be games that need 5 DVDs. The industry needs to get off the CG kick IMO and just do everything real time. It's been proven that it's possible and can look great.
 
I think the biggest mistake that 360 has done so far is the rush job on hits launch titles. Most games at launch look like higher rez versions of Xbox games. Some games really do show the potential of its hardware and looks next gen like Oblivion. Xbox 360.... more lke Xbox 1.5 with that launch lineup. MS is dying to get Xbox 360 out first before Sony, hoping that the same happened to Sony with PS2 would happen to them. There is a good chance for history to repeat itself however, its not 2000 and its a different market today. I say its gonna bite them in the ass.
 
Timing. I think releasing early was abit of a mistake. The PS2 is still very much alive and the PSP/DS combo is going to take much attention off the x360. I would say the x360 doesn't even feel like a proper console launch, its almost like a non-event. No one cares about it.

Thats the big problem, people won't see it as next gen, more like a stepping stone to the next gen. Technically inaccurate perhaps, but thats consumer perception for you.
 
the biggest mistake they have done so far is showing off the alpha kits at e3 they should have pulled a sony eventhough i hate target renders. The 360 stuff at e3 was pathetic. The one saving grace for the 360 was the GR3 footage and apparently that was just some bad look CG :lol
 
I also think it's the lack of HD being standard.

I think that they should have made it standard because none of of the other systems will have it. It would have differentiated it from the other systems (like the current Xbox), and would have been a good asset to help to create better games.
 
Who needs DVD? 1.2 GB is more than enough space. And if a game needs more, 2-3 GD-ROMs will offer more capacity than any game this generation will ever need.
 
Microsoft could face a problem if the x360 is indeed less powerful than the PS3. I always thought that the xBox buyers were mainly graphic fetishists. I could be wrong though, they may all like the Microsoft brand.
 
Dr_Cogent said:
I disagree. I think it's the lack of the standard HD.

You can always have more discs. Also, I would expect more cut scenes to be rendered real time ala RE4.

Xbox was built up around the HD. It was a selling point to many gamers. I am willing to bet there are going to be a lot of people who are going to be pissed when they actually find out this one doesn't come with it standard.
Click to expand...

It's not about swapping discs, did GC have disc swapping cause of it's space limitations? No it had games that had cut features and suffered in quality compared to their counterparts on Xbox and PS3. Even this gen the really cinematic and content intensive games like GTA, MGS, and Gran Turismo filled DVD9s to the brim. Next gen games are going to have more audio, more art, more animations, more everything and it's all going to take up significantly more space. Not only that but the Blu Ray playback is a big advantage not only to the format but also makes the console more attractive to consumers. If the hardware is more powerful, the software is prettier, and the features are better those are 3 pretty big strikes against 360 and they all stem more from the media format than the HD or ports or anything else just about anyone could come up with. Sony knows that and will play that angle no doubt.
 
Lack of a standard HDD and half-assed backwards compatibility, and I don't just mean for the software.
 
marc^o^ said:
The biggest problem they will face could be the Revolution.
Click to expand...
Dr_Cogent said:
You're serious?

Sony is who they should be worried about.
Click to expand...

Of course I'm serious! Why shouldn't we take Nintendo seriously with all the right moves they made lately? Nintendo used to piss some people off, but since Iwata is on board it's a brand new company. And the Rev controller seems to be a dream come true. It has the potential to sell like crazy.
 
The console isn't even out yet and you're already discussing it's biggest mistake?

I think this thread is a wee bit premature.

At least give 360 a chance to fail first.
 
The games. Many of them were prerendered and still didnt look that good(e3, X05). The selection is weak. Doesnt compare to PS3 in support.
 
D3VI0US said:
Even this gen the really cinematic and content intensive games like GTA, MGS, and Gran Turismo filled DVD9s to the brim.
Click to expand...

GTA:SA barely filled 3GB on the disc, if I recall correctly, and that game was huge...
 
joaomgcd said:
GTA:SA barely filled 3GB on the disc, if I recall correctly, and that game was huge...
Click to expand...

Content will grow for next gen. Who would have thought in the PS1 gen we needed DVD for PS2 games?
 
I'm with DC, their marketing sucks.

Their expectation management is fucked. You have xbox fans pissed due to no std HDD (after stating it would have one), $$$$ accessories, HD-era without the hardware etc.


Awful.

And Allard & Moore. Do they actually have a clue? Becuase they say some fucking stupid things (rev controller, vents)
 
Dr_Cogent said:
But the Xbox did. And now its going to be perceived as a downgrade IMO.
Click to expand...

To who? If the games look and play better most casuals will give two shits about the HD they used as a big memory card anyways. Most of the features offered by the HD are still standard just in different ways. Custom soundtracks are supported through PC streaming and portable music devices. Faster loading is accomplished through the 12x DVD and while caching is better I doubt people give a shit. Hell I think you can even do Live without the HD.

If they care about the ones that aren't supported like BC and downloadable content which really are extras they suck it up and buy a HD even if they are pissed about it. Part of the whole reason why the HD isn't standard is cause on Xbox it was little more than a glorified memory card but was a big cost that made em bleed. I understand the logic of not having the consumer pay for extras they don't want and won't use like wireless networking and a HD and all of the fancypants PS3 ports. 360 has optional solutions for all of that stuff it's only games that suffer cause of the non standard HD the rest is expendable especially with $40 mem cards it defies logic. I think you lose a more in quality than you gain in initial sales.

If you take a look at the opposite scenario that is the PS3 where HDMI and wireless are standard and contribute to the cost of every console driving it up even more on top of Cell and Blu Ray it adds up and could be really steep. Sure they may go down to the point where they are negligible over time but it'll hurt that initial adoption rate. That's also not a very enviable position to be but I'll wait for the details on pricing cause the PSP was a curveball.
 
Juice said:
The console isn't even out yet and you're already discussing it's biggest mistake?

I think this thread is a wee bit premature.

At least give 360 a chance to fail first.
Click to expand...

Most of us a have a wicked combination of foresight and bias. Even though I was a bit young even I knew that $60 N64 cartridges were bad news when I looked over and say $40 PSX cds. E3, TGS, and X05 were failures as far as I'm concerned cause each one successively killed of any hype I had for the console. I don't need a lot of justification to buy a console at launch, all it takes is one game I want to play when it drops. Swing and a miss.

Also GTASA is a huge game and while I wasn't right about it per se it was just an example. I can't name em but there were probably a few content intensive games that did fill DVD9 or were on two regular DVDs. The games are only gonna get bigger and it's gonna happen fast.
 
i'll change my statement :

the biggest problem is : Fanboys massive misunderstanding about what to expect.

oh, and people swallowing the "Xbox 1.5" nonsense.


that is all.
 
DCharlie said:
i'll change my statement :

the biggest problem is : Fanboys massive misunderstanding about what to expect.
Click to expand...

That's a problem relative to fanboys in general more than it is to MS sport.
 
No standard HD. They should have taken what they did in Japan, and done it worldwide. Then they would have something to differentiate them from the PS3. They gave up their one advantage

The second would be not waiting for a HD-DVD drive, or even BRD. Showing crappy software at E3 that allowed the public (media) to perceive that the PS3 was much stronger.
 
The Core Pack. And it really seems like marketing just went, "You know what? We need a cheaper Xbox 360 package!" And with that they ripped out practically everything promised repeatedly for the past few months leading up to the announcement (down to even the chrome on the DVD tray). Yeah, they said that there was the potential later on for a Hard Drive-less 360, but with all launch versions including an HD, developers would've used it, because they knew that even if it wasn't plugged in, the consumer most likely had one. Now, since they know 20% of the Xbox 360 systems sold at launch will be lacking an HD, they CAN'T waste time and costly development resources optimizing two seperate loading schemes, and developing extra HD-based features that at least 1/5th of the market will not be able to use. I'm sorry, but that "they can buy an HD later if they want it" argument doesn't work, aftermarket peripherals do not sell. Period. Especially overpriced $100 ones. And with developers unable and thus unwilling to rely on HD features being present, there's no real push for the HD-less consumers to pay so much to get one, thus it gets phased out. It's a win-win situation for consumers!

But the remote, the HD-video cables ("Welcome to the High Definition era! Here's some standard RCA cables!") But above everything else... spending something like a year promoting their wireless controller and promising it in the package, and then changing the core system's controller to wired?

And the worst part is that with how overpriced the peripherals are, getting a core system isn't saving you money if you do plan to upgrade to get any of the added features. Yet because of inevitable supply issues at launch, 20% of Xbox 360 owners will be stuck with that potential extra cost.

Everything I hear about the tech side of the 360 sounds great, or at least progressive. (Maybe not in a completely new direction like Nintendo, but the feature list and ideas sound smart.) But then the marketing side steps in, messing with multiple SKUs in some regions but not others, backpedaling and BSing on features previously promised, and lately giving some insulting and daft interviews. ("How will I watch DVDs with the Revolution controller?") I know it works like that for most companies, but wow does it seem to be dramatic with Microsoft lately. It's like the tech side and marketing didn't even talk to eachother about the console.
 
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