What was it that people didn't like about MGS2?

P

psycho_snake

I went to WAGs boutique and all I got was a sniff
I'm guessing that most of the complaints are from the storyline, but I still can't see anything wrong with the story. I thought that The Patriots was a really clever idea and that Liquid taking over Ocelots mind was really good as well. Sure, it isn't very realistic, but you had these unusual things in MGS1 as well, such as Decoy Octopus, who could change the shape of his body and some other things, but you never hear people complaining about those.

I just really want to know what was it about MGS2 that made people hate it. In my Opinion, MGS2 is one of the greatest games ever made.
 
It isn't so much the story, but how it was presented.

Actually, I LOVED Metal Gear Solid 2. I even thought the twist was cool. I loved Metal Gear Solid 2, UNTIL THE LAST HOUR.

CODEC MESSAGE TAP X TAP X TAP X TAP X

*25 minutes later*

One minute action

CODEC MESSAGE TAP X TAP X TAP X MORE PREACHY STORYLINE TAP X TAP X TAP X

*30 minutes later*

What, this is the final battle? I think I fell asleep 15 minutes ago!

Game over ending which was messed up.

First 11 hours of MGS2 = awesome


Last hour and ending = shit!

Metal Gear Solid 3 looks like it'll rectify many problems from MGS2 and explain the ending of MGS2 in more detail.
 
Well obviously they weren't correct. MGS2 wasn't even the PS2 game of the year for 2001, that would be Grand Theft Auto 3.

I think all the hype contributed to some of the ugly backlash.

Plus I think Kojima is a talented visual artist, but he violates the rules of game interation too often. You're making a video game, not a movie, you just can't have huge breaks in the action like that that without taking the player out of the game.

Flat out, that's just poor game design.
 
Long boring codec conversations

Raiden & Rose

Too many cutscenes

Still a good game, I beat the game 8 times!

Some of the boss fights were really good and the last bit with the sword was awesome!
 
See my thread I made about 20 hours ago called

MGS2 the best game I have played this gen!


Things that could have been better

- Maybe control switching between snake and raiden
- A few of the codec dialogs with rose weren’t that great



Colonel:
Raiden, something happened to me last Thursday when I was driving home. I had
a couple of miles to go -- I looked up and saw a glowing orange object in the
sky, to the east! It was moving very irregularly... Suddenly, there was intense
light all around me -- and when I came to, I was home. What do you think
happened to me...?

Good work we need more MGS2 threads!
 
soundwave05 said:
Plus I think Kojima is a talented visual artist, but he violates the rules of game interation too often. You're making a video game, not a movie, you just can't have huge breaks in the action like that that without taking the player out of the game.
Click to expand...

So you aren't allowed to bridge the gap? What exactly is wrong with that. It's not like MGS is just a bunch of nice looking cutscenes with terrible gameplay. It's a series with really high quality gameplay and great cutscenes.
 
There is no gap to bridge.

Movies are a distinct medium, as are video games, which require interaction.

If Kojima wants to make a movie, he should just make a movie.

There's no need to have a cutscene in a video game go over 2-3 minutes.
 
That's the problem, he's already said he has no interest in making movies.

Anyway if there's no reason for bridging the gap there shouldn't be any cinematics in games period, right? So shouldn't you be complaining about any game that has them?
 
soundwave05 said:
There is no gap to bridge.

Movies are a distinct medium, as are video games, which require interaction.

If Kojima wants to make a movie, he should just make a movie.

There's no need to have a cutscene in a video game go over 2-3 minutes.
Click to expand...

MGS2 was a movie?

I could of sworn that was me controling raiden during that awesome sword fight, hiding those corpses in lockers, sneaking passed guards, climbing on railings and fighting some of the greatest boss battles ever!
 
soundwave05 said:
There is no gap to bridge.

Movies are a distinct medium, as are video games, which require interaction.

If Kojima wants to make a movie, he should just make a movie.

There's no need to have a cutscene in a video game go over 2-3 minutes.
Click to expand...

Hey, how about you just skip the series? Most games do not feature cutscenes of that length, so I don't see how it is a problem for ONE series. Some people enjoy that aspect. If you don't, you chose the wrong game.

watching halo2 cinematics reminded on how much the mgs series kicks ass.
Click to expand...

Ha ha, yeah. Halo 2's cinematics are certainly not bad (well above most FPS titles, actually), but they have nothing on MGS2 and (most likely) MGS3 in that regard. Then again, NO game has matched the quality of Kojima's direction...sooo...
 
It wasn't just the story and long codec scenes that sucked. The oil rig was a really lackluster environment, the level design was repetitive, there was rarely an opportunity to put the stealth aspect to good use, uninteresting backtracking objectives, and pretty much every boss battle sucked.

The exception being the ship intro where Snake is in control. If MGS2 stuck with that forumula there wouldn't have been mass dissapointment.
 
soundwave05 said:
There is no gap to bridge.

Movies are a distinct medium, as are video games, which require interaction.

If Kojima wants to make a movie, he should just make a movie.

There's no need to have a cutscene in a video game go over 2-3 minutes.
Click to expand...

I agree with soundwave. MGS2's cutscenes really ruined any flow the game had. Raiden ruined the series. And most of the gameplay in MGS2 was rehashed from MGS1, which was fantastic. I won't be buying MGS3.
 
Insertia said:
It wasn't just the story and long codec scenes that sucked. The oil rig was a really lackluster environment, the level design was repetitive, there was rarely an opportunity to put the stealth aspect to good use, uninteresting backtracking objectives, and pretty much every boss battle sucked.

The exception being the ship intro where Snake is in control. If MGS2 stuck with that forumula there wouldn't have been mass dissapointment.
Click to expand...
Dude there was no Oil rig in MGS2

There was a oil tanker but no rig, this just show’s if you have not finished the game or understood the story don’t post hate!

MGS2 = GOTY

Boss battles sucked?

Rollerblading fat mad bomber!
Multiple Metal gear battle!
Awesome sword duel!

What more can you want?
 
Raiden, Raiden, Raiden....
Not enough bosses
Story was retarded
Raiden

The whole switct and bait really killed the game for me. Raiden as a character looked great IMO and it would be cool if konami did a game with Raiden. But I bought MGS2 to kick ass with SS not some wannabe. Also i wasnt a big fan of the actual setting.
 
Eggo said:
I agree with soundwave. MGS2's cutscenes really ruined any flow the game had. Raiden ruined the series. And most of the gameplay in MGS2 was rehashed from MGS1, which was fantastic. I won't be buying MGS3.
Click to expand...


Boo hoo. :P Playing crappy single player campaigns like in Splinter Cell: Pandora tommorrow makes me appreciate the gameplay of MGS2 even more. Shooting in first person made a huge shift for gameplay. Calling it a rehash is crazy.
 
Eggo said:
I won't be buying MGS3.
Click to expand...

Here's hoping that more of the MGS2 complainers will follow that path. Less complaining this time around will be very welcome.

914828_20041109_screen004.jpg


MMM...One more week.
 
Dude there was no Oil rig in MGS2
Click to expand...

I'm sure he's refering to the Big Shell portion of the game.

I think what ulitmately hindered MGS2 was that Kojima was coming off of such massive success with MGS that his ideas became almost untouchable. The people around Kojima that were supposed to help with editing and game design, etc. became reluctant to critize his direction and so nobody kept him "grounded."
 
Wow that looks amazing.

Too bad we won't see a screen like that in game.

This series needs to move to an option of over the shoulder 3rd person. Especially since the radar meter is gone.
 
SolidSnakex said:
And they were correct.
Click to expand...

No wait... we are talking about MGS2...not KoTOR here get it right!

I think Raiden and his GF is what made it soooooo painful for me!
 
Just a note.

Cutscene and codec length are basically even between MGS1 and MGS2

So if that's your problem with MGS2, then it has to be your problem with MGS1

So you should either skip cutscenes or stop playing the series. The Solid series has always been cutscene driven from the beginning.
 
SolidSnakex said:
Here's hoping that more of the MGS2 complainers will follow that path. Less complaining this time around will be very welcome.

914828_20041109_screen004.jpg


MMM...One more week.
Click to expand...

Well the game could have been much better, i found the story uninteresting and confusing, and since there were so many cut scenes id rather play the damn game.....
 
Bluemercury said:
Well the game could have been much better, i found the story uninteresting and confusing, and since there were so many cut scenes id rather play the damn game.....
Click to expand...

Press the X button a couple times.
 
Do The Mario said:
Dude there was no Oil rig in MGS2

There was a oil tanker but no rig, this just show’s if you have not finished the game or understood the story don’t post hate!

MGS2 = GOTY

Boss battles sucked?

Rollerblading fat mad bomber!
Multiple Metal gear battle!
Awesome sword duel!

What more can you want?
Click to expand...

The bosses in MGS2 were extremely disappointing, particularly when compared to MGS1.

Save for the fight with Fortune and Snakes' fight with Ogla, the battles didn't have a single shred of originality. The battles in MGS1 can go down in history as some of the best boss battles ever (Sniper Wolf! Psycho Mantis! Metal Gear! Grey Fox! Vulcan Raven! Liquid Snake melee! Liquid Snake vehicle battle! I haven't played MGS1 in over 5 years yet I remember those perfectly). MGS1's boss battles were completely original and the ultimate apex before introducing Snake to new enemies and surroundings.

The battles in MGS2 were completely generic run-of-the-mill type stuff. When I first went toe-to-toe with Metal Gear Ray I thought the entire set-up was a joke. Like most of the battles it seemed implemented and executed poorly.
 
KilledByBill said:
I'm sure he's refering to the Big Shell portion of the game.

I think what ulitmately hindered MGS2 was that Kojima was coming off of such massive success with MGS that his ideas became almost untouchable. The people around Kojima that were supposed to help with editing and game design, etc. became reluctant to critize his direction and so nobody kept him "grounded."
Click to expand...

Well if he doesn’t know that Big Shell isn’t an oil right then he knows fuck nothing about MGS2
 
dorio said:
Awkward controls, boring gameplay.
Click to expand...

Yes! After playing Splinter Cell, I had a real difficult time with MGS2. Why should I have to switch perspectives to actually do any kind of precision aiming? Why can't that guard twenty feet in front of me not see me? There were just too many annoyance.

I will admit though that the atmosphere was pretty cool.
 
for those that say MGS2's story is "retartded", what did you find retarded about it. When I first found out about The Patriots, it was excellent. I had never been that amazed by a story in a game yet. When I say Liquid take over Ocelots mind, I was again amazed. The idea of GW was genius. The Patriots goal of complete censorship with was unique and great. All I know is that Kojima did the best job anybody could do with the stories of MGS1 and 2.
 
psycho_snake said:
for those that say MGS2's story is "retartded", what did you find retarded about it. When I first found out about The Patriots, it was excellent. I had never been that amazed by a story in a game yet. When I say Liquid take over Ocelots mind, I was again amazed. The idea of GW was genius. The Patriots goal of complete censorship with was unique and great. All I know is that Kojima did the best job anybody could do with the stories of MGS1 and 2.
Click to expand...

* Crickets

Asking people to provided a solid argument for the MGS2 story hate? You should know that most people on this forum are limited to saying this game sucks.

Most people haven’t even finished the game so they can’t comment on the story?
 
Cons:

- terrible controls
- terrible robotic animations
- RE style camera
- having to switch to first person view to accurately hit targets
- 30 minute cut scenes
- story

Pros:

- 8 billion VR missions
- music


Splinter Cell makes MGS2 its bitch eight days a week.
 
siamesedreamer said:
Cons:

- terrible controls
- terrible robotic animations
- RE style camera
- having to switch to first person view to accurately hit targets
- 30 minute cut scenes
- story

Pros:

- 8 billion VR missions
- music


Splinter Cell makes MGS2 its bitch eight days a week.
Click to expand...

:lol Thats a little harsh

They are both good games IMO. Splinter Cell's story wasn't that good.
 
psycho_snake said:
for those that say MGS2's story is "retartded", what did you find retarded about it. When I first found out about The Patriots, it was excellent. I had never been that amazed by a story in a game yet. When I say Liquid take over Ocelots mind, I was again amazed. The idea of GW was genius. The Patriots goal of complete censorship with was unique and great. All I know is that Kojima did the best job anybody could do with the stories of MGS1 and 2.
Click to expand...

MGS2's story was impressive from an artistry standpoint, but overall it wasn't entertaining. By that I mean it wasn't the least bit straightforward and it delved into depths that were too deep for a stealth action game. Also, there wasn‘t a good sense of progression, the story didn‘t thoroughly explain itself and a sense of who the enemy is was kind of drowned-out by all of the melodrama. The story kind of bordered on the RPG line and I think that turned a lot of people off expecting a blockbuster action movie plot.
 
Do The Mario said:
* Crickets

Asking people to provided a solid argument for the MGS2 story hate? You should know that most people on this forum are limited to saying this game sucks.

Most people haven’t even finished the game so they can’t comment on the story?
Click to expand...

Opinions people have them....
 
Long and shitty codec conversations.


I do remember being really impressed with the graphics when the game was first released.
 
Splinter Cell/PT enemy AI is garbage. Weapon hit detection is laughable. Plus the levels force you through too much trial and error. Single player SC/PT is shit. Thankfully SC3 looks to change things around.

Unlike MGS2 where the last hour is a joke SC has a problem with the entire game being a pile of ass.

Yes! After playing Splinter Cell, I had a real difficult time with MGS2. Why should I have to switch perspectives to actually do any kind of precision aiming?
Click to expand...

At least you can aim in MGS2. In SC you can have that reticle locked on and the bullet still wizzes above an enemy guard's head, or too the left, or too the right. Horrid.
 
I didn't like the long codec conversations either (Raiden's romantic subplot was the worst offender), but that fits in with my trend of being increasingly impatient with game storylines. I got fed up with Halo 2's opening cinema and clicked past it last night, for example.
 
The bait and switch of MGS2, after years and years of hype, really made me take a step back and realize that I didn't play the MGS games for their gameplay, but rather, the story. And the story in MGS2, however postmodern it may be, wasn't that appealing to me. When I played through Twin Snakes earlier this year, I just didn't find it that fun anymore, even though I beat the PSX version 3 or 4 times.

So yea, I'll be sitting on out MGS3 for a bit. I'm sure I'll pick it up somewhere down the line, but not now. Let it also be noted that I learned a major, major lesson about hype here.
 
I loved MGS2, but I seriously disliked Rose and every goddamn codec convo you have with her.

Things just got too soapy and dramatic with her.
 
Although I've learned to love MGS2 in subsequent playthroughs(mostly because trying to get all the dogtags is mad fun), there were plenty of things I didn't like the first time.

Let's start with the characters. Raiden. I don't mind the character switch, but I do mind playing as a brainless dumbfuck. Annoying, very annoying personality. Rose sucks dick too, doesn't hold a candle to Meryl. Colonel(TEH PATRIOTZ) was terrible too, the entire game you knew there was something horribly wrong with him...it just made for an awkward experience. I didn't appreciate that Kojima turned Snake into some pussy bitch, either.

The setting isn't too hot either, the Big Shell is dull. The ridiculous boss fights somehow feel much less believable than the also ridiculous boss fights from MGS1.

The game has many things I don't like about it, I'm not going to bother to list them all, but I still find it lots of fun.
 
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