Werewolf Jones
Member
MvC I to showcase how you DON'T make a fighter.
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What was the best fighting game that defined this generation?
- Thread starter MvCSpiderman
- Start date
yurinka
Member
Street Fighter V is the most influential and defined the generation.
Even if it started with many issues, had a great core and ended being a masterpiece after all the fixes, improvements and additions. Still a top game of the genre even if it's on its 6th year. It has been the first (and very) successful GaaS and eSports at a new level in the fighting game genre, showing the path for many to follow in several areas:
-1 game, 1 community: crosplay + all new features & gameplay rebalances and additions for free, no need to pay new game editions
-Loads of post-launch content, released frequently and many of it for free/unlockable
-Lacked at launch but ended with loads of single player game modes, unlockables and unlockable extras like galleries, colors, characters, etc
-New characters purchasable alone or in packs, letting you to unlock many of them for free, just playing
-Focus monetization on cosmetics and characters, not in gameplay features
-Fighting game eSports brougth to a new level with many big events supported by the company inside an official World Tour
-Important lesson for future games: don't start short of single player content, small roster, with lots of input lag and shitty netcode
Even if it started with many issues, had a great core and ended being a masterpiece after all the fixes, improvements and additions. Still a top game of the genre even if it's on its 6th year. It has been the first (and very) successful GaaS and eSports at a new level in the fighting game genre, showing the path for many to follow in several areas:
-1 game, 1 community: crosplay + all new features & gameplay rebalances and additions for free, no need to pay new game editions
-Loads of post-launch content, released frequently and many of it for free/unlockable
-Lacked at launch but ended with loads of single player game modes, unlockables and unlockable extras like galleries, colors, characters, etc
-New characters purchasable alone or in packs, letting you to unlock many of them for free, just playing
-Focus monetization on cosmetics and characters, not in gameplay features
-Fighting game eSports brougth to a new level with many big events supported by the company inside an official World Tour
-Important lesson for future games: don't start short of single player content, small roster, with lots of input lag and shitty netcode
KI has been probably my favorite MS game from this and maybe the previous generation. Great visuals, netcode, fun and had the F2P approach. Sadly like other previous F2P fighting games it wasn't very successful (probably due to its balance and gameplay) so wasn't supported many seasons and at a tournament scene nobody cared about KI.
Nice joke putting Smash in the list and MK/Injustice over SF.
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MvCSpiderman
Banned
Uh KI was successful the tournament scene doesn't mean anything. Also KI was only for one generation, the Xbox One, there wasn't a new xbox game before that.
Right now the issue with a new entry is MS has to find another developer. It may be one of the studios they brought make it, but none of them seem to be studios that care to make fighting games.
yurinka
Member
Not being successful in the tournament scene means that the top fighting game players didn't care about it and prefered to focus on other games instead. If desired MS would have hired someone to make more seasons or a next game, as they already did twice.
We can't say how it did sell because we don't have its numbers. The more similar indicators we have are the interest from the top FGC players, the amount of support MS gave (3 seasons, shorter than similar games) to the game and the fact MS didn't share sales, so shouldn't be huge sales.
I think MS may be, or should be, trying to buy Netherealm to ask them to make KI games in addition to MK games.
KI, like the other fighting games, got the GaaS focus ("season model") because many other previous games from other genres were very successful using it. For the little data we have to compare, KI doesn't seem to be a succesful game in terms of business as happened in the several F2P fighting games released before KI.
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mxbison
Member
Probably SFV with it's GaaS approch, but my god is that game bland to watch. Switch any 2 high level players of a character and you couldn't tell the difference. No variety in playstyle and little combo options with low execution. Absolutely no comparison to the hype of SF4 tournaments.
RetroAV
Member
Was KI as successful as SFV? No, but not because it wasn't as good or better. What hurt KI was the fact that it was on Xbox One, a console no one wanted to support, so the player base wasn't as big as Microsoft had hoped. KI won't get the recognition, but at the beginning of the generation, it set the foundation that all the other, more popular fighters would eventually follow.
Tiamat2san
Member
How can Killer instinct be so low?
It’s a fantastic game.
the lack of guilty gear games shocks me.
It’s a fantastic game.
the lack of guilty gear games shocks me.
Hoppa
Member
Probably Fighter Z. ArcSys making a DBZ fighting game was hype as shit! Decent mechanics but still accessible for people who like DBZ but aren't FGC nerds
I've been a big Tekken guy since I was a kid, but Tekken 7 didnt really do it for me. I read Tag 2 was a flop and nearly killed the series so T7 was made on a tight budget..here's hoping the success of T7 means they can spend a bit more time on the overall package with the next one
MK11 and Injustice 2 were both very good but they were poorly balanced. I still see people from the MK community complaining about about Sheeva stomp and I'm sure I saw a video of a streamer who cried because she couldn't escape it
I've been a big Tekken guy since I was a kid, but Tekken 7 didnt really do it for me. I read Tag 2 was a flop and nearly killed the series so T7 was made on a tight budget..here's hoping the success of T7 means they can spend a bit more time on the overall package with the next one
MK11 and Injustice 2 were both very good but they were poorly balanced. I still see people from the MK community complaining about about Sheeva stomp and I'm sure I saw a video of a streamer who cried because she couldn't escape it
SkylineRKR
Member
KI is incredibly fun, and feature packed nowadays. The full whack isn't even expensive, could be grabbed for 10 bucks outside of GP. KI suffered from a long hiatus and debuting rather bare bones on the Xbox One when it wasn't succesful. Game does a lot of things right, easy to get into, great netcode, nice visuals.
supernova8
Banned
Yep. What has really changed since the original Street Fighter at a fundamental level?
Only thing I think has changed is that fighting games are not very inviting because you know for a fact that (1) very little has changed from the last game (s) and (2) practically everyone playing fight games is a fucking nutter who knows all the special fancy moves, and it's almost impossible to get into it as a beginner.
I could be wrong but the last fighting game I bought was Street Fighter 4. I went online and got demolished in every single match. It was boring. What's the point? I took it back and traded it in for something else.
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Majima Everywhere System
Member
I think that DBZ game defined this generation.
Take an existing property, throw in the visuals, get the youtube reacts, launch. Player's spend time on the message boards obsessing over DLC or the next fighting gameclike this, while Sonicfox slaves away in the dojo.
Tekken 7 was the best game we got. Smash is probably the SFIV equivalent as the main event.
I had a good time with the new VF this weekend, good to see my old friend again. I was on Wi-Fi while gf was streaming. I think I might become a hermit and play Halo 1 and VF the rest of my life as my tastes have stalled.
Take an existing property, throw in the visuals, get the youtube reacts, launch. Player's spend time on the message boards obsessing over DLC or the next fighting gameclike this, while Sonicfox slaves away in the dojo.
Tekken 7 was the best game we got. Smash is probably the SFIV equivalent as the main event.
I had a good time with the new VF this weekend, good to see my old friend again. I was on Wi-Fi while gf was streaming. I think I might become a hermit and play Halo 1 and VF the rest of my life as my tastes have stalled.
Jibran#one
Member
I swear it breaks my heart when people don't give ki it's credit , it wasn't that popular but my god was ki amazing and in my personal opinion ki >>>>everything
Alx
Member
Fighting games used to be my go-to genre at each generation, but I can't even remember one that I loved on the last one. Sure I liked Soulcalibur and Tekken all right, but it was just more of the same.
Never was fond of 2D fighting games though (or games with 2D fameplay, like KI or MK), and those are the only ones that seem to be popular. Or anime arena fighters based on all kinds of super attacks, but that's not my cup of tea either.
Never was fond of 2D fighting games though (or games with 2D fameplay, like KI or MK), and those are the only ones that seem to be popular. Or anime arena fighters based on all kinds of super attacks, but that's not my cup of tea either.
jigglet
Banned
Yeah god damn MS handled that well. I only bought the first season but even from afar I can see how well they've managed this IP.
I Love Rock 'n' Roll
Member
Smash is not a fighting game, it´s a fun mess, for some. I hate it.
VF5 for shure and Tekken 7. Then come KOF and GG on PSVita.
SFV also define the generation: it was universally hate.
VF5 for shure and Tekken 7. Then come KOF and GG on PSVita.
SFV also define the generation: it was universally hate.
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tassletine
Member
Smash or Gangbeasts. Personally speaking it's Nidhog, but that wasn't that popular.
The ones listed are pretty old school.
The ones listed are pretty old school.
Rhazer Fusion
Member
Seriously I got nothing against it, but how did Injustice 2 score that high on that list? I like the majority of the fighters out, but I think Tekken 7, DOA6, VF5:US, SC6, Killer Instinct or even SF5 stood out to me. I feel that DOA6 is underrated and very enjoyable for me. Yeah, DOA5 is the better game in most aspects, but I think most people didn’t give DOA6 a fair chance. In all honesty though, literally every sequel lost some depth and became easier than their predecessors.
MasterDerico
Member
Ki and Dbfz.
*Nightwing
Banned
Personally I liked samurai showdown and put in the most time with it but agree the fighting game of this gen was DBFZ
Next gen fighting game so far has been online marketplace buyers vs bots. The dark souls of fighting games
Next gen fighting game so far has been online marketplace buyers vs bots. The dark souls of fighting games
KiteGr
Member
For me it's Guilty Gear Xrd Rev 2.
Blaz Blue Chrono Phantasm and Central Friction appear to have become way to convoluted to keep track of.
Mortal Kombat XL was good but not great.
Injustice 2 Legendary edition had some questionable Gear upgrade choices and Microtransactions.
Mortal Kombat 11 Ultimate had some questionable Microtransactions and a horrible PS5 retail version.
Tekken 7 had half of it's cast missing and sold separately as DLC.
King of Fighters 14 looked like an upscaled PS2 game (and had DLC).
Street Fighter 5.... I hate that game with a passion and everything it represents.
I haven't bought DB Fighterz, Grand Blue Versus, Samurai Shodown 2019 or Soul Calibur 6, as they had tons of DLC and no complete retail version. And I haven't played most Smash games or Killer Instinct because they are not on consoles I own.
Blaz Blue Chrono Phantasm and Central Friction appear to have become way to convoluted to keep track of.
Mortal Kombat XL was good but not great.
Injustice 2 Legendary edition had some questionable Gear upgrade choices and Microtransactions.
Mortal Kombat 11 Ultimate had some questionable Microtransactions and a horrible PS5 retail version.
Tekken 7 had half of it's cast missing and sold separately as DLC.
King of Fighters 14 looked like an upscaled PS2 game (and had DLC).
Street Fighter 5.... I hate that game with a passion and everything it represents.
I haven't bought DB Fighterz, Grand Blue Versus, Samurai Shodown 2019 or Soul Calibur 6, as they had tons of DLC and no complete retail version. And I haven't played most Smash games or Killer Instinct because they are not on consoles I own.
My favourite is SFV
But they all had major issues
MK11 - Convoluted custom abilities, lake guest characters
Smash - Garbage netcode
SFV - Content starved initial release
What many have in common though is hideous load times and I'm glad the next gen will change that. But I assume all Devs will make cross gen games which means we will still have load times for online play, playing against last gen players.
But they all had major issues
MK11 - Convoluted custom abilities, lake guest characters
Smash - Garbage netcode
SFV - Content starved initial release
What many have in common though is hideous load times and I'm glad the next gen will change that. But I assume all Devs will make cross gen games which means we will still have load times for online play, playing against last gen players.
Mabdia
Member
Well. There are a few good games this gen.
I got here Tekken 7, Soul Calibur, KOFXIV, SF5, Blazblue CF, Samurai Shodown, DOA 6, KOF 97 Global Match, Skullgirls 2nd Encore, DB Fighter Z and Injustice.
I'm not a big fan of 3D fighting games, but to me the Crown goes to Tekken 7, fallowed by Blazblue and DOA 6. Saddly when I got Blazblue it's online was dead. So I just got my ass kicked in Tekken 7 and DOA 6.
I'll stop it right here!!! There is a lot of games to talk yet on the list above. Just talked about SF5 because a lot of people liked the game(But sadly I didn't), and because of KOF XIV because I really love KOF since 94.
I got here Tekken 7, Soul Calibur, KOFXIV, SF5, Blazblue CF, Samurai Shodown, DOA 6, KOF 97 Global Match, Skullgirls 2nd Encore, DB Fighter Z and Injustice.
I'm not a big fan of 3D fighting games, but to me the Crown goes to Tekken 7, fallowed by Blazblue and DOA 6. Saddly when I got Blazblue it's online was dead. So I just got my ass kicked in Tekken 7 and DOA 6.
SF5 was boring playing online. Everyone looks like a pro player on it, like the only game that plays SF just plays SF. I don't care about lose a fight. And it's really boring that you can basically perform only a single desperate move for fight.If Capcom fallowed Alpha series way of playing it could be a better and fun game.
Never fallowed Tekken's chronology, yet the game shows me a lot of CGs of older games that help to get me to game's story. It was a decent story, nothing like Orochi saga, nor Blazblue, but it entertained me. The game-play is really fun to learn a few combos and I felt realized when I learned a combo that can help me in most of fights. The game forces you to adapt to your opponent, or you'll lose a lot, and it is possible. I manage to win some matches that was practically lost when I got a little space to change my approach. It is really fun when that happens. And after lose some matches to a guy with 10 consecutive victories (5 was your lose ) it's really fulfilling and makes you love the game.
) it's really fulfilling and makes you love the game.Blazblue closed the Ragna arc with a really good story. Not that alone, but the game has one of the best game-play I ever experienced in a fight game. It is easy to entry but really hard to master (same goes to Tekken 7 and DOA 6). I really love 2D fighting games. 1x1, mano a mano! And there is no 3D to you use side step. Sadly when I got the game the online was already dead. But the game has a lot of content to challenge you. Play the game on the hardest difficult is really fun and frustrating to me. Probably because i'm not a hardcore fighter gamer.
Now it is time to talk about DOA 6. The game has some flaws. The main point of Dead or Alive 6 is the fanservice. Just like MK. One uses violence as a gimmick, the other uses Sexy characters. But while MK can be resumed as a violent game (to me) and that's all, DOA has some mechanics that makes it a good and sometimes frustrating fighting game. It's is fun how I managed to win a round, once, without perform a single punch or kick (next round I got my ass kicked so hard that I almost landed on moon surface!). That being said, you can find a lot of different stiles with the same character and that is really fun. The game could be better if it has a more vast options. Could be really a better game if we had weak punch and strong, the same goes to kicks. But it is a really fun game to play.
And Lastly I'll talk about KOF XIV. It is a really fun game to play. But I never managed to find a online match. My only criticism is that the IA is really unfair. It reminds me a lot of KOF 94, and that is really bad! Sometimes my attack has to hit but it does not. When you change the difficult to 3 it is too easy, when you change to 4 it's a normal play until a few fights before the bosses. Than it becomes really unfair. Again, attacks that should have get hit doesn't. On 5 it happens since the first round. Yet playing it with a friend at home it is really amazing.
I'll stop it right here!!! There is a lot of games to talk yet on the list above. Just talked about SF5 because a lot of people liked the game(But sadly I didn't), and because of KOF XIV because I really love KOF since 94.
MvCSpiderman
Banned
The Season 1 retail did over a million and f2p wise I recall MS saying 6 or 8 million players but that was over 2 years ago iirc.
But fighting games not being liked by the tournament scene isn't relevant to sales and longevity. This whole generation along with the last part of the previous one proved the FGC is in a bubble. Look at SFV before late 2018. Until MK and Tekken blowing up got people to try out SFV again with it's updates SFV was not a good seller under expectations Capcom expected in a 5 month period, and still below that over 3 years later. It's not the only casualty either.
At best the super niche kof and anime fighters got boosts from the FGC and may have even needed them, but they still have zero growth outside of it.
GreetingsMortal
Member
I’d have to say Tekken 7; if only because it not only revived a franchise that had been floundering for a few years but made it into one of the FGC’s biggest again. And allowed for the return of 3D fighters in general like Soulcalibur and VF5 a few days ago.
DBFZ runner up since it also brought a lot of new blood to the fg scene.
Sadly all the big games other than what NRS gave us have trash online. Hopefully that trend changes this gen starting with Guilty Gear.
DBFZ runner up since it also brought a lot of new blood to the fg scene.
Sadly all the big games other than what NRS gave us have trash online. Hopefully that trend changes this gen starting with Guilty Gear.
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Kagoshima_Luke
Gold Member
Nothing this gen had the impact that SFIV had last gen.
The Pleasure
Gold Member
Nominated for idiot of the day.
MvCSpiderman
Banned
You mean the hyperbole impact that only impacted the fgc?
yurinka
Member
8 million players for a F2P is a disaster (8 million F2P players doesn't mean sales, most F2P players never pay).
Street Fighter V had a slow start because the known flaws it had at launch, but now is the 2nd best selling Capcom fighting game ever and Capcom's overall 8th best selling game with over 5.5M copies sold plus and tons of DLC sold even if released in a single console. That DLC would compensate the 800K copies it needs to outsell Street Fighter II for SNES. It still sells every quearter even if being on its 6th year and still has over half a year of content and eSports including the Olympics tournament, so who knows if it will end outselling SF2 with raw game purchases alone.
The game had many sales and monthly active user spikes during the main eSports tournaments or key post launch releases (like some characters or big gameplay/features updates), and to see it still selling units on its 6th year proves eSports and post launch content had a key part on its long term huge success in terms of sales and longevity.
Even if loved by the FGC, KOF and anime fighters never sold a shit. Only Dragon Ball FighterZ has been relevant and had great sales thanks to the Dragon Ball IP popularity, selling slightly above SFV (but being sold on 3 consoles instead of in 1). Above these two in terms of sales, this there's only Tekken 7, MK11 and if you count it (due to its subgenre or for being originally released in the previous gen), Smash.
All the other fighting games had way smaller sales, as had their previous entries on these series in previous generations.
KI was also released on PC, people could have played it there. But yes, PS4 achieving like 2x the userbase of XBO affected. Btw, that PC version was released in 2015, and the crossplay GaaS game game SFV was announced late 2014 and released early 2016, so didn't have time to be an influence, the game only had barely a year of development ahead.
KI didn't set the foundation of anything, the previous generation (PS3/360) there were other F2P fighting games before KI like Soul Calibur Lost Swords, that like KI weren't a business success, to the point that these devs supported these games for a pretty short period and the F2P formula for their next fighting games.
SFV took the GaaS approach inspired by very successful GaaS from other genres and platforms, not in KI, as it can be seen in many features like weekly/daily missions, paid content that is also unlockable for free, time limited events, constant and frequent free post launch content, gatcha, etc.
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RetroAV
Member
First of all, KI was released in Nov. 2013 on Xbox One. That was definitely enough time to have an influence on SFV which came out a little over 2 years AFTER KI in Feb. 2016. The PC version of KI was released in Mar. 2016 after the release of SFV and after Microsoft stopped supporting the game with updates which is also why it died out.
Second, I don't remember any other fighting game releasing with Seasonal characters, stages, music, additional mechanics, accessories, game modes, and pricing system before KI did. Anything SFV or any other fighter did after was clearly an evolution of what KI had started prior.
Also, even if there were games that had done similar, #1. It wasn't to the degree that KI had done it and #2. Aren't we talking about this gen? I'm pretty sure KI was the first fighter to do these things THIS GEN. And I'm pretty sure all the fighters after KI, adopted the whole "Seasonal" model which was what DEFINED and separated this generation of fighters from previous gens.
anthony2690
Member
Killer Instinct: Definitive Edition Reviews
FIGHT ON! Discover your Killer Instinct! Play the legendary fighting game with stunning 60 FPS visuals, over-the-top action, a wild cast of combatants, rocking reactive music, and C-C-C-COMBO BREAKERS! Killer Instinct: Definitive Edition includes all 26 characters and 20 stages from Seasons...
www.metacritic.com
Killer Instinct Definitive edition for me, I remember when KI was revealed at E3, I was genuinely wondering why they bothered at the time, expecting it to be a dead game, ended up being my most played fighting game with 22+ days playtime.
I don't really play it anymore, but on the rare case I fancy a game or two, I get a game instantly still (what really surprised me, all these years later) aha.
I did really enjoy guilty gear xrd (vanilla, lost interest by the time rev2 landed, and I tried it again on ps5, but dropped it very quickly as online was dead despite it being on sale for £1 digitally, and the ps5 dpad and squishy buttons drove me mad)
I also really enjoyed blazblue Central ficition.
Dbfz I played for a while too.
MvCSpiderman
Banned
Yes and unlike SF we don't have info on how it did in sales or f2p since 2018 so jumping to conclusions doesn't work here. We only know 8 million in 2018, which was growth, and over a million with the first retail season, that was like 2014? Who knows how much physical sold since there was more focus on f2p.
But SFV the damage was done and it likely had MK and mostly Tekken and DBFZ to thank for the sales jump because the fgc put it on top even before it got updated while it was struggling.
There's just no actual connection between the tourney scene and success. The FGC did not give SFV that over 3 million sales boost in 2 years.
Also apparently Injustice 2 is up there with Tekken, DBZ, and both Make also. Another successful game not too popular in the fgc, maybe a bit more popular than MK but not much more.
KOF would be more successful if they actually tried getting people outside a niche to try it. Same with a lot of the smaller ones. They are gambling their profits on the consistency of 100,000 people or less.
MvCSpiderman
Banned
Surprising I thought KI died off since 2020.Killer Instinct: Definitive Edition Reviews
FIGHT ON! Discover your Killer Instinct! Play the legendary fighting game with stunning 60 FPS visuals, over-the-top action, a wild cast of combatants, rocking reactive music, and C-C-C-COMBO BREAKERS! Killer Instinct: Definitive Edition includes all 26 characters and 20 stages from Seasons...
Killer Instinct Definitive edition for me, I remember when KI was revealed at E3, I was genuinely wondering why they bothered at the time, expecting it to be a dead game, ended up being my most played fighting game with 22+ days playtime.
I don't really play it anymore, but on the rare case I fancy a game or two, I get a game instantly still (what really surprised me, all these years later) aha.
I did really enjoy guilty gear xrd (vanilla, lost interest by the time rev2 landed, and I tried it again on ps5, but dropped it very quickly as online was dead despite it being on sale for £1 digitally, and the ps5 dpad and squishy buttons drove me mad)
I also really enjoyed blazblue Central ficition.
Dbfz I played for a while too.
MightySquirrel
Banned
For Honor for sure.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
SFV,VF5,KI and SCVI.
Throwing tigers and shit Tekken has become a joke.
Throwing tigers and shit Tekken has become a joke.
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Thesuffering79
Banned
SF is a button masher now. The glory days of SF3 are gone. They made the game very casual friendly at the cost of skill.
anthony2690
Member
I honestly expected it to be dead when I tried to search too, but found games instantly, was happily surprised
Rick Dangerous
Member
Sf5 is amazing. I love character design, gameplay, over the top critical arts.
Only loading is really really painful.
Only loading is really really painful.
anthony2690
Member
I feel like people that say this stuff, are usually not very good at fighting games.
Button mashing isn't going to get you victories on sfv (or any other fighting game) against anyone competent.
And I say this as someone who doesn't really care for sfv and really enjoyed third strike on the dreamcast.
eastcoastkody
Member
tekken 7 is the worst tekken. And idk how anyone can see that differently.
launch with no characters, no modes....and add a gimmick like rage arts to reward the loser. Not even mentioning the expensive DLC for characters that were already included for free in previous versions of the game.
launch with no characters, no modes....and add a gimmick like rage arts to reward the loser. Not even mentioning the expensive DLC for characters that were already included for free in previous versions of the game.
yurinka
Member
I could understand to listen that from another games, that rely on super popular non-FGC IPs and reduced their inputs to the minimum like DBF or Smash to get new players, but to call SF a button masher proves you have no idea about fighting games, or at least SF. It doesn't make any sense specially considering SFV is the king of the FGC eSports. Go and win EVO tomorrow, champ.
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yurinka
Member
Yes, it was originally on XBO but it wasn't the only place to play it. It was available on PC too, so the XBO installbase wasn't that important. In addition to that, what I meant with the PC version and featuring crossplay was already a thing on SFV previous to KI so SFV didn't implement it as an influence of KI.
Many games in the PS3/360 generation like the SFIV series already had post launch content like mechanics, game modes, characters, stages and so on, KI wan't the first one. Same goes with the in-game currency for unlockables goes even beyond that generation, was implemented in games like Marvel vs Capcom.
To increase the volume of post launch content and features and market it as seasons is one of the key parts of GaaS, and like many other things from their GaaS approach they got it from previous GaaS from many other genres in mobile or PC that -unlike KI- were a huge success.
Yes, I mention previous gen influences beacause you talk as if games from previous generations didn't exist and didn't influence the games of this generation.
KI didn't define and wasn't an important influence this generation or previous ones because -even if good- it never has been a top game.
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