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What we know so far about the Nintendo NX with sources

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It's 480p, and it was likely done with Wifi in mind (considering that is what is streaming video to the game pad via a custom protocol). Given that it seems to be Broadcom more than Nintendo's I would say that it is likely to have it's resolution cap upgraded with a new device... assuming that they use the protocol again.

I definitely understand the reasons they dialed back the screen, but I also think it's one of the things that shows its age the most for the Wii U. Largely due to art-style 720p doesn't look too bad for most games on a big screen, but 480p, even with the caveat that it's streaming, and the input lag is low, etc, still looks pretty bad; especially in a world where many of us are looking at screens with hugely higher resolutions and pixel density throughout the day (albeit, not always for gaming purposes).

I really don't think it would be wise for Nintendo to do that again unless the screen is really nice for a say, 540p screen.

Yes, I'm not expecting a whole lot myself, but it's very hard to judge, especially with the expected shared software library, which is much easier for them to implement the closer in performance the two devices are (i.e. the more powerful the handheld is).

On the battery life I'd be very surprised with 12 hours, as even the n3DS XL only managed around 6.

Ha, nor am I expecting that kind of battery life. I was just giving a hyperbolic example of a different direction to take a handheld in. I'll quietly hope they strike an agreeable balance between performance and other handheld concerns.
 

Somnid

Member
An ARM based SoC doesn't have to match top-performing x86 cores (i.e. Skylake), it only has to match plausible x86 candidates for a console (i.e. Jaguar/Puma). The A57 and A72 are well within the performance range of Puma in a console environment (one of the reasons AMD's dropping it in favour of ARM).

If AMD feels those are inline with performance (A57 is relatively new, Puma is relatively old) then perhaps.

Nobody writes from scratch. Surely nintendo will branch something existing to step on. That said, past that branch point the OS support will be practically entirely nintendo's responsibility. Just imagine:

nintendo os dev1: 'Hey, we have a root exploit at 12 o'clock!'
nintendo os dev2: 'No worries, mate, the upstream guys will fix it eventually.'

But it's not like we don't have examples of such things in console space already. Case in point, Sony and AMD, who took over portions of the LLVM tree. Can you guess why? And do you expect nintendo to take leadership over some domains in, say, Xen?

You don't need to take leadership. You fork your version, patch it and submit pull requests upstream. This is a super common process in the open-source community.

iOS largely works across architectures (the entire dev emu is x86). How many x86 iOS devices have apple released again? That's right, none. They support just ARMv8 (ARMv7 being quickly deprecated). Perhaps it's cheaper..

They've invested billions into their own chips which are among the best out there and iOS as a product is not suited to larger devices where x86 reigns. That x86 build for the emulator is likely not a lot of maintenance but provides huge benefit developers who aren't working on ARM devices (Perhaps there is something worth learning here, hmmm). Hell Android keeps MIPS support around probably because that too isn't super expensive to maintain, I can't even name a single MIPS Android device.
 
R

Rösti

Unconfirmed Member
Most likely the briefing will be held at the Osaka Stock Exchange building (they had their most recent Corporate Management Policy Briefing there).

The conference hall they used then is not very interesting, but I'll see if I can find an image still.
 

Thraktor

Member
If AMD feels those are inline with performance (A57 is relatively new, Puma is relatively old) then perhaps.

Puma is old (or more precisely doesn't have any newer successors) because they shifted their R&D to ARM, and they're currently selling A-series Opterons with A57s in the same TDP category as their older Jaguar-based X-series Opterons, so they obviously think the A57s are at least competitive in performance.
 
R

Rösti

Unconfirmed Member
nintendoindirectoyk2k.png
 

ElTorro

I wanted to dominate the living room. Then I took an ESRAM in the knee.
I just want NX to have account-based license management and a VC service with cross-buy and cloud saves. I fully trust Nintendo to be capable to build an online infrastructure worthy of 2016.

*weeps silently*
 

10k

Banned
I just want NX to have account-based license management and a VC service with cross-buy and cloud saves. I fully trust Nintendo to be capable to build an online infrastructure worthy of 2016.

*weeps silently*
3vKJqc7.gif


Seriously though Nintendo will get it right this generation. Dena will take care of it.
 
R

Rösti

Unconfirmed Member
Don't do that.
I did it to highlight the time of the briefing (as people have kept asking for that), but also just for some fun. Hopefully shall these slightly inane discussions come to an end with the advent of the upcoming event, or at least shall we be provided something new to talk about.
 

doop_

Banned
Rösti;193936877 said:
I did it to highlight the time of the briefing (as people have kept asking for that), but also just for some fun. Hopefully shall these slightly inane discussions come to an end with the advent of the upcoming event, or at least shall we be provided something new to talk about.
All in good fun. I hope a few details on any of Nintendo's future projects are revealed.
 

AzaK

Member
Quick question. With people considering something like the A72 and/or A53 for NX, how compatible are those with Apples Arm AXXXXX processors? Secondly, if they are compatible, how efficiently compatible are they?
 

Jackano

Member
Previous page: OK folks, I hear you. ARM all the way then!
I guess my way of thinking was "fly far from PowerPC" when it should just have been "merge around what is working nowadays".
 

Thraktor

Member
Yeah, I saw that too. The "consumer hosting" part makes me think it's for cloud data. What kind of data? We'll find out, I suppose.

Edit: They mention eCommerce, so probably eShop.

To be honest if they mention eCommerce it's more likely online retail. Do NoA have an online store? (I know Nintendo UK has one)

Edit: I read the job ad, standard web sysadmin stuff, nothing to see here.
 

Vena

Member
Yeah, I saw that too. The "consumer hosting" part makes me think it's for cloud data. What kind of data? We'll find out, I suppose.

Edit: They mention eCommerce, so probably eShop.

This would be eShop cloud data, online store data, metadata, and, probably, cloud storage data (which wouldn't be surprising seeing as how they said they used this for things, probably like saves/syncs). NoA will obviously be running its own local cloud servers as they already do with game servers for games on NA servers.

To be honest if they mention eCommerce it's more likely online retail. Do NoA have an online store? (I know Nintendo UK has one)

Yes, they do.
 
But with that state of mind what is the best they could put in a 3ds form factor for -200$, if they go classy i mean. Cause they won't do that for the sake of being high tech, sure. But they could if they need their portable to drive their software. I see the GT7800 GPU is 332gflops. That's not far from WiiU isn't it. But with a 540p rez they would need less to have WiiU graphics.



332gflops is beyond Wii U. Wii U is at 176gflops.

Basically, at 200 dollars, they could have a device between 100~130gflops and at 540p, that would be on par with Wii U.
 

blu

Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Yeah, but that is assuming that Nintendo already discusses things in a open channel. And it's been well proven that what ever cards they have, they play it close to the chest... Look at OpenGL/Vulkan, Nintendo has been a member on OpenGL for years. It is very rarely that you hear input from the company on that spec. They use it, but that seems to be about it. There is no real company effort to have some say in the direction of the spec, and I highly suspect that there resent membership with Vulkan will be much of the same.
Yes. I was giving a negative example - I know nintendo would hardly do that. They're not that kind of company.

That said, if I am to make an guess... The merged there handled and console R&D's for a reason. And there are already hints that, going forward... the 3DS will likely be the last of it's kind. What ever they are branching from would likely be internal.
Precisely. The writing is on the wall. If they can unify their game as well as system divisions, they'd be at a net gain. The only reason nintendo would go x86 on the home end, Zen non-withstanding, is IFF the cost of Puma hw was so cheap that it outweighed the cost of supporting two different architectures at the OS level. The thing is, I cannot imagine AMD offering nintendo so much better prices on Puma APUs vs A57/A72 APUs.

You know, that might also be something to consider... Just about everyone knows that Nintendo is VERY picky about prices and pricing.
Every platform holder is ; ) Nintendo are just selling to a bit different demographics than sony/ms.

You don't need to take leadership. You fork your version, patch it and submit pull requests upstream. This is a super common process in the open-source community.
You entirely glossed over my post - the one part where I asked you why you think Sony/AMD took ownership over LLVM tree domains. Let me elaborate for you:

1. You branch OSS Foo.
2. You make it work in your system - at the very top that includes patching interfaces for compatibility/efficiency/glaring stupidities, but also throwing out / bringing in of arbitrary portions of functionality.
3. You start actively using it. You encounter myriads of: (1) bugs, (2) more incompatibilities with your pipeline* and (3) actual opportunities for optimisations and genuine new Foo features. You submit patches / send pull requests for your first, perhaps second and surely third category**. Those go into some maintainer's incoming box and/or you wait for the next RC merge window. Why wait for a release? Because you surely don't want to use head of Foo tree for actual production of your software. Either way your patches find their way upstream with a considerable delay.

In the meantime (particularly on really active OSS and similarly active closed projects) things have piled up and you're essentially maintaining your internal branch, arbitrarily-deviating from Foo's fork point. And since you don't work full-time on maintaining Foo, but you actually have other duties on your bills-paying project, your own timeliness on those patch submissions / pull requests is not impeccable either - you miss a window or two, etc.

* things that originally looked ok-ish, but in practice turned out dead ends.
** making the world a better place (tm) in the process, etc. Of course those are not just some surgical touches - they are normally accompanied by their unit tests, or at least fixes in preexisting ones.

So at the end of the day, my dear Somnid, it might be more efficient if you just took ownership over some domain of Foo and effectively made other contributors honour your day-to-day work and world views as much as you honoured theirs. Of course all that could happen only once you've wrestled successfully in Foo's internal political struggles. And this is why Sony took ownership over some portions of the LLVM tree - Sony needed a good compiler toolchaing for the ps4. And apple generally stepped down as the main owner, so the political landscape was generally open for shuffles.

They've invested billions into their own chips which are among the best out there and iOS as a product is not suited to larger devices where x86 reigns.
iPad Pro is a large enough device so that apple could've used a core-m for it - same as in their macbooks. They did not.

That x86 build for the emulator is likely not a lot of maintenance ..
That's an interesting assumption. It's as much maintenance as twice the integration and verification work.

.. but provides huge benefit developers who aren't working on ARM devices (Perhaps there is something worth learning here, hmmm).
Sure. Until recently the emu was the only way devs could run any iOS code without forking for the annual AppStore fee. This changed with iOS 9, though.

Hell Android keeps MIPS support around probably because that too isn't super expensive to maintain, I can't even name a single MIPS Android device.
This is not some 'goodle did on a whim' act. Android is accessible to 3rd parties and there's sufficient interest in MIPS across the globe for the architecture to see continued support. Imagination and a good portion of the Chinese market (where Loongson is their national CPU) make sure of that. The parallels to closed ecosystem entities like nintendo or apple are just not as strong as you think.
 

lyrick

Member
332gflops is beyond Wii U. Wii U is at 176gflops.

Basically, at 200 dollars, they could have a device between 100~130gflops and at 540p, that would be on par with Wii U.

Be careful not to make direct comparisons across different Architectures and even more so across different Companies Architectures in different spaces.

Floating Point Ops is not exactly a metric that's directly comparable even within a single companies branding/marketing especially when in the end you're looking at something like a graphical capability.
 

Hermii

Member
Be careful not to make direct comparisons across different Architectures and even more so across different Companies Architectures in different spaces.

Floating Point Ops is not exactly a metric that's directly comparable even within a single companies branding/marketing especially when in the end you're looking at something like a graphical capability.

Especially when it comes to battery devices vs connected devices. Powerful mobile chips can not run at maximum capacity very long at a time for cooling / power consumption reasons.
 
Be careful not to make direct comparisons across different Architectures and even more so across different Companies Architectures in different spaces.

Floating Point Ops is not exactly a metric that's directly comparable even within a single companies branding/marketing especially when in the end you're looking at something like a graphical capability.



You're right. I was thinking of 2CU of GCN architecture as a graphic chip. Which means its supposed to be dramatically faster at the same flops rating.
 

blu

Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
You're right. I was thinking of 2CU of GCN architecture as a graphic chip. Which means its supposed to be dramatically faster at the same flops rating.
A GPU is as fast as its balance of ALU and BW. A 2N ALU, M/2 BW part can be notably slower for a good deal of tasks than a N ALU, M BW part, depending on the starting balance between M and N. Just saying.
 
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