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What we know so far about the Nintendo NX with sources
- Thread starter Hero of Legend
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Burn a hole straight into my heart. Believe!That handheld would burn a hole through your desk with how hot it would get, let alone your hands.
I expect the console for 2017, though.
Clock speeds are probably way to high I guess.
Herb Alpert
Banned
There are no Mark Rein comments praising or bashing the NX yet so that means it's not coming out that soon.
people under NDA must not comment in any way about NX...
OMG
DOES NX RUN UE4?!?!?
Mark Rein, a few weeks later : "lol, why do you want UE4 on NX? It has already UE3!"
sorry, Wii U launch still hurts
I'm more concerned about the talent working on those games than the literal resources. ALBW was done by the 'main team' I think.
And you're right that XC3D wasn't an ideal experience, but they ported it anyways despite how gigantic it was and how much it needed to be downgraded, so I don't think Zelda is an impossibility. XC3D needed the extra power of N3DS but I don't think that has anything to do with NX.
Pokemaniac
Member
I never said anything about limiting the systems the games are on. Just that the current console and handheld lines of those franchises are distinct enough that both should continue.
Though, realistically, console Zeldas are a relatively likely candidate for remaining console exclusive going forward.
Found this random post. lol
http://sheekyforums.com/thread/318792169/video-games/nintendo-nx-uses-a-custom-64-bit-arm-soc.html
Troll or leak? You decide.
http://sheekyforums.com/thread/318792169/video-games/nintendo-nx-uses-a-custom-64-bit-arm-soc.html
Troll or leak? You decide.
We're in new console launch mode alright, everybody has an uncle at Nintendo.
LOL. That post has been there for months too
James Scott
Banned
For people asking why shouldn't all the games come out for both systems:
The gap between the two should be the smallest in quite awhile, but there will still likely be a big enough gap between the handheld and console. I do believe most games they've been making lately would likely work on both systems.
There's a big difference between this:
And this:
We will likely see games in the same scope as most Wii U games on both, but I don't think the next Zelda or Xenoblade will be made in those circumstances.
The best examples would likely be 3D World/Land and DKCR/3D.
Console runs at 60fps vs 30, but they're comparable.
I think titles like Yoshi, Kirby, pikmin, Hyrule Warriors (basically all the 1st party titles) will be on both.
Not sure about platinum, tho
The gap between the two should be the smallest in quite awhile, but there will still likely be a big enough gap between the handheld and console. I do believe most games they've been making lately would likely work on both systems.
There's a big difference between this:
And this:
We will likely see games in the same scope as most Wii U games on both, but I don't think the next Zelda or Xenoblade will be made in those circumstances.
The best examples would likely be 3D World/Land and DKCR/3D.
Console runs at 60fps vs 30, but they're comparable.
I think titles like Yoshi, Kirby, pikmin, Hyrule Warriors (basically all the 1st party titles) will be on both.
Not sure about platinum, tho
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
One can get enough false info as it is from relatively reputable sites as wikipedia, no need to take the noise to youtube comments levels.
R
Rösti
Unconfirmed Member
But for the next Zelda we're talking about the difference between NX handheld and Wii U, not NX handheld and NX console.
I dunno, maybe it's just not feasible to have a proper 3D open world game on handheld (I don't know if there are any examples), as XC has transitions between maps despite its hugeness, but if a 'huge' game were to hit both systems Zelda seems like the easiest candidate.
James Scott
Banned
I'm still not sure the NX handheld can handle Zelda U.
Zelda likely requires better AI and better controls than a portable version would allow.
Xenoblade and likely Dragon Quest XI could maybe work since it doesn't need to handle complex AI and don't rely on timing since it's slightly automated in a lot of aspects.
Pokemaniac
Member
For people asking why shouldn't all the games come out for both systems:
The gap between the two should be the smallest in quite awhile, but there will still likely be a big enough gap between the handheld and console. I do believe most games they've been making lately would likely work on both systems.
There's a big difference between this:
And this:
We will likely see games in the same scope as most Wii U games on both, but I don't think the next Zelda or Xenoblade will be made in those circumstances.
The best examples would likely be 3D World/Land and DKCR/3D.
Console runs at 60fps vs 30, but they're comparable.
While I'm not completely convinced that they'll intentionally keep the power gap small (Really don't see the point, since with a bigger power gap, cross compatible games can scale up more, and console exclusives can be that much better), but this is definitely something people need to consider. Forcing 100% library parity only limits the games which can be made.
Another thing to consider is that, design wise, certain games simply don't work on handhelds (i.e. Rock Band, Wii Fit, lots of stuff which heavily relies on motion controls, etc.).
You also have the fact that telling 3rd parties they are required to scale their games to the handheld is a good way to scare them away.
Can't imagine NIntendo would force 3rd parties to work with both platforms. They'll just try to make it an attractive option.
Pokemaniac
Member
Definitely. There's a lot they can do to encourage handheld compatibility, but forcing it goes a step too far.
I'm pretty sure Nintendo would be happy to get the current Japanese support on their handheld and get the big western publishers to support the console. Each device would share indie and Nintendo games most likely but the hit third party games would be on the console.
James Scott
Banned
Yep. It is a bit hard to see any instance of keeping a handheld game from the console, but maybe it doesn't matter too much.
I think they'll try and get Japanese devs into the ecosystem to make games for both especially if it's meant for a global release. I think downscaling/grading a big western game would be a lot harder and it might not be too worth it
I don't think "forcing" or not will be an issue. At least not for people working at the handheld level: everything will get up-ported automatically unless the handheld has some feature or gimmick and the game utilizes it to prevent porting to the console side.
For downports (which would be the realm of western third parties targeting the console), i agree it's less likely to be forced, though since the handheld will be the better selling unit, it would be an attractive option to do so for anyone who gets convinced to work on the NX at all (which i think will be the bigger hurdle).
For downports (which would be the realm of western third parties targeting the console), i agree it's less likely to be forced, though since the handheld will be the better selling unit, it would be an attractive option to do so for anyone who gets convinced to work on the NX at all (which i think will be the bigger hurdle).
James Scott
Banned
Are any iPhone apps not on iPad? (Current generation)
I know a lot don't offer native support but still run and can be upscaled/zoomed it.
Υeah i think iPhone apps are upscaled on iPad, but you can purchase an iPad-only app in some cases. I expect a similar approach.
Pokemaniac
Member
Yep. Though in Nintendo's system, I'm not sure if they'd have distinct "hybrid" and handheld only categories.
James Scott
Banned
Some people are discussing what we know and speculating off of it.
I think what little we know is pretty interesting
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
I'm slowly coming to Thraktor's opinion that nintendo will aim for 14nm on the handheld side. And that's not just because of some handheld Polaris : ) I just think that hh has been nintendo's focus for some time now, and thus they have a lot to gain (conversely, lose from failing to) capitalize on that. Basically, I'm expecting a leading hh with a supplementary console ; ) Moreover that having two related vectors of market attack could allow nintendo to initially subsidize their hh via their home unit, if need be, so the hh could really be the gateway device.
I see that the discussion went again in the direction of few common games and the rest released separately for the handheld and console. I shiver at the thought of future NX droughts. That would be Nintendo learning nothing (3ds and Wii U games already share assets).
Pokemaniac
Member
It's really the opposite. Most will be on both, but exclusives will still be a thing.
This could be the case for some more high profile games, maybe too demanding for the handheld. But most indies could play on both (or more) form factors, and handheld games also could be played on the console with maybe higher resolution.
That's what makes the most sense to me. Every single handheld game works on the console, whether digital or physical. Basically like a built in, seamless game boy player. It just works. But then, naturally there are home console exclusive games because they're too big or have extra stuff or companies don't feel like downporting. Wouldn't be too difficult to explain either. For physical, just have two different color boxes. X boxes are console exclusive, Y boxes work on everything. For digital, just straight up say what it works with on the page before they buy it.
I'm also of this opinion. This would also maximise Nintendo's software profit.
Kyodai wants to bring Project Elea to NX
http://nintendoeverything.com/kyodai-wants-to-bring-project-elea-to-nx/
Looks like a neat game.
Let's see if they actually do that though.
In that case 14nm becomes a possibility for the home console, although I still think that unless they're targeting performance levels that are a significant jump over the PS4 (which I'm certainly not expecting), then 28nm would still likely be the more sensible option.
Ok, sorry about that, just following on from the discussion about separate home console and handheld games I assumed that's what you were advocating.
For people asking why shouldn't all the games come out for both systems:
The gap between the two should be the smallest in quite awhile, but there will still likely be a big enough gap between the handheld and console. I do believe most games they've been making lately would likely work on both systems.
There's a big difference between this:
And this:
We will likely see games in the same scope as most Wii U games on both, but I don't think the next Zelda or Xenoblade will be made in those circumstances.
I don't think there is that big a difference. For one thing, it's entirely plausible that Nintendo could release a $200 handheld that's actually more powerful than the Wii U, so it would have no problem from a technical perspective playing it at 540p. From a gameplay perspective, I don't see how Zelda would work any worse on a handheld than a console. There's nothing in the games which inherently require a resolution higher than 540p, and in fact 540p is a higher resolution than any Zelda game has been originally released in thus far. Both Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask have been very successful and show that Nintendo has both the desire and the financial incentive to bring full Zelda titles to their handhelds. They even brought Xenoblade Chronicles to the new 3DS, and with XCX there's again nothing which would prevent it from being playable on a suitably powerful handheld (except perhaps those tiny fonts).
More importantly, though, Nintendo's home consoles have varied from around 20% to around 40% of their total hardware sales. It doesn't make sense to pour a huge budget into a game like Zelda or Xenoblade and then cut off 60-80% of your audience because it doesn't "feel like" a handheld game.
Well, I said they should, not they will. I've learnt to be very careful with these Nintendo hardware predictions
My logic is basically that Nintendo should want to satisfy these goals:
1. Release a home console that is within touching distance of Xbox One and PS4, at a reasonable price
2. Release a handheld which is relatively cheap (i.e. $200 or under)
and
3. Make developing one game for both the home console and the handheld as simple as humanly possible
The first goal is relatively easy, but satisfying both it and the third goal is easiest if you low-ball the XBO and PS4 a little, i.e. something a little less powerful than the XBO (which should also keep the price low).
The second goal on its own is trivial. They could probably make a handheld that outperforms the 3DS (w/o 3D or anything like that) for $80 if they really wanted to. When combined with the third goal, though, they basically want to have as low a screen res as they can get away with (i.e. 480p/540p) combined with the most powerful SoC they can for $199, and without anything else that would push up the BoM.
Aside from the above, the third goal is most effectively met if they use the same CPU arch (i.e. ARM) and the same GPU arch across both SoCs. AMD and Nvidia are pretty much the only companies that could do both, but it seems like they're going with AMD. Therefore, the most straightforward and sensible approach for Nintendo to take would be a home console with a 28nm AMD APU with 12 GCN 1.2 CUs running at around 700-750MHz, and a handheld with a 14nm AMD APU with 4 Polaris CUs running at whatever frequency can be squeezed out of them. Even if they had to take an initial loss on the handheld it could well be made up for by reduced development costs over the lifetime of the device.
That said, Nintendo have never been the types to take "the most straightforward and sensible approach", so I'm personally expecting some kind of bewildering but fascinating new feature that happens to consume 40% of the handheld's budget, squeezing a decent SoC out of the picture.
Fourth Storm
Member
According to the last rumors, they're shooting for 12m NX sold during the first year. I dunno, it was still surprising to me that they couldn't make enough new 3DS units, but I suppose the 3D screen was probably the cause. Sharp probably don't have much machinery dedicated to those parallax barrier displays these days. The same could be true of their Free Form displays as well, although the rumor was that they've moved mass production up to early 2016 (they should be crankin' em out as we speak!) in order to meet Nintendo's demands.
I've been thinking about the RAM configuration again. Might GDDR5 be their best option? Every other split pool configuration that I can think of has some type of massive downfall. If they go with DDR4, it's both pricey and slow (assuming they don't spring for a 256-bit bus, which seems very unlikely given the history). Even the initial Polaris GPU is using GDDR5 on a 128-bit bus. I'm assuming for a 1 TFLOP or even higher part, Nintendo would only need around 100 GB/s or even less with AMD's memory compression.
I'm just kind of rambling. But 8 GB of GDDR5 on a 128-bit bus (8x8gigabit chips using the latest available) doesn't seem so outrageous given their options. Maybe throw on 10 MB or so of L3 cache if Nintendo want something lower latency to play with.
Yeah, to be honest I'd just go with GDDR5 for the home console if I were Nintendo. I feel that goal no. 3 in my post above yours points towards a single memory pool being the best choice for both devices. If you have two devices with split pools, then I can imagine optimising around each device's memory systems being an issue that gets in the way of simple multi-device development. That said, Nintendo do love their low-latency memory, but there's not really any good option open for them in that regard.
As Blu pointed out previously, though, it would be possible for Nintendo to use the same LPDDR4 modules across both devices (it offers substantially better bandwidth per-chip than DDR4). In theory four 2GB SK Hynix LPDDR4 modules could give them 119GB/s, and then they could use one or two of the same modules in the handheld. It keeps procurement simple, allows them to get the best possible price, and just about hits the necessary performance targets. Not necessarily cheap, though.
Only 100GB/s? PS4 does 176. Going with a 256-bit bus would be awesome.
3rd parties don't give a crap about requirements. They ignored MS and Sony for the last hdtwins. This idea is foolish.
D:<
NX home console needs to be at least 5x as powerful as PS4 if it's gonna be able to properly render the faces in the next Xenoblade.
Trevelyan9999
Banned
Tecmo Koei could be having a field day as we speak making Hyrule Warriors 2 on NX with the Vulkan API in place..... Link mowing down over a thousand enemies on screen at once with full Next Gen detail? Just a thought....
Kissenkopf
Banned
We will get one this month, I'm pretty sure about that. They will share informations about a lot of stuff bit I doubt any about the NX. When we are lucky, they will tell us when they will fully reveal the console/handheld.
Don't expect to hear from Nintendo about anything, Wii U, 3DS or NX until the next fiscal year. So April is probably a time for the Nintendo direct to show the second half games for Wii U and 3DS. NX conference in May.
What's the difference between this and PS4/Vita? The majority of indie games are playable on both with cross buy and cross save? What am I missing?
James Scott
Banned
They'll also likely make it with the handheld in mind so probably nothing too crazy.
It should be theoretically easier to port between NXs than PSV/PS4.
Also, the handheld should do well worldwide vita didn't so it should get more support.
PS4 and Vita have vastly different CPU and GPU architectures.
NX platforms should have CPUs and GPUs that are at least in the same family, even though not the same performance level.
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