What we know so far about the Nintendo NX with sources

Status
Not open for further replies.
Rösti;193253666 said:
The wheels are in motion, though initiated by someone close to the source, not the source itself (at time of writing). Not sure about presence in office.
Click to expand...

Don't do this to me Rösti, it's almost 9PM, and I need to go to bed soon!
 
KingSnake said:
That's an interesting experiment. This is the possible new thing that is the most interesting for me among all the patents and rumors.

Would this possible work decently in a peer-to-peer network?
Click to expand...
Actually peer-to-peer gives best latency. I ran my experiment on a dedicated GbE link between the nodes - i.e. the two nodes were talking to each other over a pair of NICs, while all communication with the rest of the world was going over other NICs.
 
So Rosti may be able to get some NX info sometime today or tomorrow? Any clue on what info it would be on that he asked for? Dev kit power or something?
 
Trevelyan9999 said:
So Rosti may be able to get some NX info sometime today or tomorrow? Any clue on what info it would be on that he asked for? Dev kit power or something?
Click to expand...

Nothing specified, but it won't be this.

He's explicitly said "don't get too excited", so it's unlikely to be something that major.
 
blu said:
Actually peer-to-peer gives best latency. I ran my experiment on a dedicated GbE link between the nodes - i.e. the two nodes were talking to each other over a pair of NICs, while all communication with the rest of the world was going over other NICs.
Click to expand...

Nice. Seems a bit risky for Nintendo to do it, but who knows, sometimes they are crazy enough. The main barrier is if they can sell it properly, marketing wise. If not Nintendo, probably someone will pick this up in the future.
 
Trevelyan9999 said:
So Rosti may be able to get some NX info sometime today or tomorrow? Any clue on what info it would be on that he asked for? Dev kit power or something?
Click to expand...
He asked people to not get too excited.
Probably just a small detail interesting enough worth to mention.
 
KingSnake said:
Nice. Seems a bit risky for Nintendo to do it, but who knows, sometimes they are crazy enough. The main barrier is if they can sell it properly, marketing wise. If not Nintendo, probably someone will pick this up in the future.
Click to expand...
Well, they did it once - the wiiU-to-gamepad link is a dedicated data-link-level (in OSI terms) channel.

Graphics Horse said:
My expectations are something patent based, or would that be too obvious?
Click to expand...
Unlikely. He wouldn't need anybody's input for those ; )
 
blu said:
So let me ponder a bit on my favourite (rumoured) NX aspect, slow monday and all.

SCD, aka supplements.. That thing can fly. Especially when configured in a local network with the main unit. I've been experimenting lately with such setups for a pet project of mine, using highly asymmetrical protocols (and bypassing TCP/IP altogether but that's another story) where the supplement has all assets in advance (in my case - procedural assets), and the main unit sends out a single beacon/sync message when ready to accept during a frame, while in the meantime the supplement has finished or is about to finish its work, and at said beacon just sends away all done computations for the frame, and then immediately starts with the next frame. Given a proper heuristics for the work split between main and supplement, the two nodes achieve perfect utilisation. And just to give you a clue how asymmetrical it all is (in packets) - it's kilobytes from the main-unit side vs gigabytes from the supplement side (over a GbE link). In my case the workload has seen perfect linear scaling thanks to the precise workload split between the nodes.

So, two things make for a great distributed system:
  • running a minimal overhead sync protocol over a low-latency network connection
  • optimal workload split between the nodes, so no idle time on either end.
Satisfying those yields perfect (read: linear) gains, aka profit : )
Click to expand...

It's the most interesting rumour for sure. It can also be consumer friendly in price since if you want the whole NX experience at full power with a console you don't have to buy the SCD at $300 price tag. The handheld could be $199 with the bulk of the power and the SCD (the local one) and borrowing power from NX SCD's over the world with a smaller price tag of let's say $100, gives you the option to play the NX game at higher fidelity and framerates.

The handheld NX will likely be the flagship and the SCD will be marketed as sort of a sling box or Apple box to enhance the experience.

Graphics Horse said:
My expectations are something patent based, or would that be too obvious?
Click to expand...
Yes, it'll be that some of the patents are red herrings to mislead us and the competition.
 
I think people are giving too much credence to all the patents, personally.

Companies prototype ideas that they've got in development. They also prototype stuff that they haven't got in development but want to lay claim to, or pie-in-the-sky concepts that they see potential in, or even just stuff they've doodled on the back of a cigarette packet and think is cool.

It's not necessarily unlikely that some of this tech might make its way into the NX, but I'm not exactly holding my breath for it to utilise scroll-wheel triggers or SCDs, or anything else found in the patents.
 
Exterminieren said:
I think people are giving too much credence to all the patents, personally.

Companies prototype ideas that they've got in development. They also prototype stuff that they haven't got in development but want to lay claim to, or pie-in-the-sky concepts that they see potential in, or even just stuff they've doodled on the back of a cigarette packet and think is cool.

It's not necessarily unlikely that some of this tech might make its way into the NX, but I'm not exactly holding my breath for it to utilise scroll-wheel triggers or SCDs, or anything else found in the patents.
Click to expand...

http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/11/nintendo-patents-inflatable-cushion-you-know-for-horseback-r/

urlhttp3a2fwww.blogcd73s0d.jpg


perfect opportunity to repost this.

general reminder about what patents mean...
 
KingSnake said:
Ha, wouldn't it be funny if THIS is what Iwata meant by integrating Wii U architecture into NX?
Click to expand...
Well, the wiiU + gamepad is an (extreme) example of the idea from the patent. It's just that the main unit is a very, very computationally-modest device, and all it can produce is basic commands and controls stream, so the supplement has to produce complete frames and send those back to main unit.

But if you think about it - all the conditions we mentioned are present: a very asymmetrical protocol between the nodes (control inputs from one end, full frames from the other) over a dedicated link (wifi from the supplement, BT from the main unit), and a very well-tuned workload distribution : )
 
blu said:
Well, the wiiU + gamepad is an (extreme) example of the idea from the patent. It's just that the main unit is a very, very computationally-modest device, and all it can produce is basic commands and controls stream, so the supplement has to produce complete frames and send those back to main unit.

But if you think about it - all the conditions we mentioned are present: a very asymmetrical protocol between the nodes (control inputs from one end, full frames from the other) over a dedicated link (wifi from the supplement, BT from the main unit), and a very well-tuned workload distribution : )
Click to expand...


Infact my theory for NX is that the portable will be a standalone (also) modified and portable Gamepad

Portable to be sold in 2016
Home in 2017 both with and without the Gamepad (for those who already bought the portable system)

Off tv, remote play, hd uprez crossbuy/game/save among the two (integrated) systems
 
Heh. Is it the tighter NDA's that were not getting leaks or is it third parties don't have anything to leak yet.

I'm shocked Ubisoft or telltale haven't leaked shit yet.
 
Thraktor said:
On the home console RAM front, I can't really see the reason for LPDDR4 in the home console. DDR4 is relatively power efficient as it is, and if LPDDR4 were competitive in price with DDR4 for the same capacity and bandwidth, there wouldn't really be a need for DDR4 to exist.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the only reason that I wonder about lpDDR4 is that I have yet to find any mass production 3200 Mbps parts from the major manufacturers (Samsung, Micron). I'm sure it is more expensive, but Samsung offer lpDDR4 (and 3) in multi-die packages that may make for a cleaner PCB as well. I'm assuming a 128-bit bus tops and if they go with a decent HBM pool, possibly even another 64-bitter. I'm not taking for granted that Nintendo even opt for 8 GB parity, but your thoughts are always welcome.

Thraktor said:
Handheld RAM may be interesting, though. They went with specialist FCRAM for the 3DS, and my thinking was that they may go a little esoteric again with something like Wide I/O 2 (which is on-chip like HBM). Whether they actually need the extra bandwidth over LPDDR3/4 is another thing, though, and like the home console, it depends on whether there's any dedicated VRAM alongside it.
Click to expand...
Yeah, doesn't Wide I/O 2 necessitate TSVs w/ the SoC? That sounds a bit pricey to me.

Thraktor said:
I also wouldn't see any reason to expect 14nm for the home console, unless they were locked into some FinFET-dependent tech early on in development (i.e. Zen or Polaris). With the expected performance levels we're looking at, a 28nm design would still be relatively power-efficient in the scheme of things.
Click to expand...
I'm thinking for something which has 2/3 the die area of Xbox One, they will get something close to 2/3 the power draw if they are using a similar GPU and RAM setup. Of course, ARM will save them on some of that, but how much vs the already small Jaguar cores? I've read that A57 is kinda power hungry at 28nm. My thinking is that Nintendo want to drastically differentiate themselves like they did with Wii. With Wii U, they drifted more towards a middle grounds and it didn't pay off. An ultrathin console that can actually get some current gen ports might be able to turn some heads.

Thraktor said:
I don't think Carrizo is really a decent point of comparison. Those Excavator cores are just going to chew up power and screw up any comparison. Besides, console APUs are going to devote a lot more of their die area to the GPU than any PC APU would, so to be honest you're better off looking at GPU dies and adding some ARM cores to them.
Click to expand...

Maybe something like Bonaire Pro? It's got an identical core config to Xbox One and is 160mm2. Slap on the ARM cores, south bridge, Trust Zone etc, and pair w/ one pool of HBM 1 or downclocked HBM2 (for more capacity). Appropriate bandwidth for such a card seems to hover around 100 GB/s. Only problem is power draw: 85 watts@1 Ghz. Shave off some for the (4?) GDDR5 chips and some more if they clock around 800 Mhz. That still won't give them a slim form factor, but who knows? Maybe I'm off in predicting that...
Thraktor said:
Also:

It's worth noting that A72 cores actually take up 10% less die space than A57s on the same node, so unless the design was locked before A72s could be added it wouldn't make much sense to use the A57.
Click to expand...
Right, the big question is when the design was locked down.
 
10k said:
Heh. Is it the tighter NDA's that were not getting leaks or is it third parties don't have anything to leak yet.

I'm shocked Ubisoft or telltale haven't leaked shit yet.
Click to expand...

Can't imagine telltale would get kits early, the Wii U came out over three years ago and they only released there first game on it last week
 
Aostia said:
Infact my theory for NX is that the portable will be a standalone (also) modified and portable Gamepad

Portable to be sold in 2016
Home in 2017 both with and without the Gamepad (for those who already bought the portable system)

Off tv, remote play, hd uprez crossbuy/game/save among the two (integrated) systems
Click to expand...
I think that a few gaffers share this theory.

BTW, recovered my last missing notes from the matrix multiplication microbenchmark. Turns out I remembered right - A9 slaughters everything else in flops/clock/core.
 
My main thought on NX is how it will sell without tp support and likely sharing some fp with Wii U. At least Wii U had a fake out with some to western support before they stopped trying.

Maybe it'll be cheaper than we all think. Maybe qol will be involved.
 
AlStrong said:
hm... yeah, I believe they are binned, but they can always change clocks/voltage last minute, plus 28nm is extremely mature, so yields should be quite good especially for a relatively modest die size (244mm^2).

I suppose they could swap out for a Jaguar/Puma to keep it as close to the current gen twins for inexpensive ports.

I'd hope they would at least try for a similar power consumption as WiiU at the minimum. lol
Click to expand...
Yeah, we don't know what's they're planning! Ko Shiota is the man in charge now and he designed the Wii and Wii U! I'm betting against x86 at the moment, just because I can't see them wanting to design this new OS for 2 separate ISAs.

AlStrong said:
I get the feeling HBM would just not be cheap enough at least for another year while IHVs deal with their next wave of high-margin GPUs that are relatively low volume compared to console.

We know how costly the 32MB SRAM is on Durango, but if they were "smart", they'd make it a part of the cache hierarchy not unlike Crystalwell to avoid mandatory buffer management. Hard to say if AMD can design it well. ;)
Click to expand...
A true cache would be pretty cool. I'd imagine Nintendo would at least want to go further than MS and have the 32 MB pool accessible to the CPU, as it is on Wii U. Nintendo exec quotes keep spinning in my head. "Absorb the Wii U architecture!" "[small pool of efficient RAM] is in our DNA!" haha

You might be right about HBM availability. This is really hard to say, although I read an article last year about how good the testing process was and how they shouldn't really face too many yield issues because of that.
10k said:
The handheld NX will likely be the flagship and the SCD will be marketed as sort of a sling box or Apple box to enhance the experience.
Click to expand...
The only problem I have with this is that the patent specifically claims the SCD as a "supplemental" device, meaning that it would be useless without the main console/handheld. So if we are to picture this, if you want the NX home console, you need to own or buy the handheld along with it.
 
10k said:
Heh. Is it the tighter NDA's that were not getting leaks or is it third parties don't have anything to leak yet.

I'm shocked Ubisoft or telltale haven't leaked shit yet.
Click to expand...

frankie_baby said:
Can't imagine telltale would get kits early, the Wii U came out over three years ago and they only released there first game on it last week
Click to expand...



TT Games, not Telltale. Dude was instafired, btw. And that happened post-reveal anyway.

#RIPMattyB00sh
 
Hermii said:
Maybe the scd will give you home console graphics on the handheld when playing it in your home.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I think Blu is on to something. Nintendo have long talked about wanting the console to be invisible.What better than not even needing to have it under a tv? The handheld would need some type of HDMI or wireless HDMI out.
 
frankie_baby said:
Can't imagine telltale would get kits early, the Wii U came out over three years ago and they only released there first game on it last week
Click to expand...
My mistake. It was TT games. They released the Lego city game in March 2013 and one of their play testers is the one who took a screenshot of the new gamepad with analog sticks and leaked it on Twitter and eventually got fired.

Most of Ideaman's and John Harkers leaks during the WUST were from Ubisoft. Ubisoft has terrible NDA's or is terrible at following them. Granted, they are a huge company.

TT and Ubisoft were godsends for our leaks lol.
 
Hermii said:
We are speculating while waiting for a leak that may never come and we are told not to be exited about hehe.
Click to expand...
Under the sounds of shurikens flying and bodies thumping on the ground in an unseen forest.
 
I mentioned it earlier but it would be really neat if the handheld had a variable frame rate screen that would make framerates other than 30 and 60 look good. Imagine if devs could make 48fps games for example. G sync or free sync type tech.
 
10k said:
My mistake. It was TT games. They released the Lego city game in March 2013 and one of their play testers is the one who took a screenshot of the new gamepad with analog sticks and leaked it on Twitter and eventually got fired.

Most of Ideaman's and John Harkers leaks during the WUST were from Ubisoft. Ubisoft has terrible NDA's or is terrible at following them. Granted, they are a huge company.

TT and Ubisoft were godsends for our leaks lol.
Click to expand...

Ubisofts issue is just how massive they are and thus spread out across the world. I know for a fact a bunch of leaks from them came from Ubisoft Casablanca.
 
Is Nintendo enthusiast still banned here?
They found a dev that worked on 3DS games is working on NX and they commented on their Facebook page a few things. I think it's ok since it's not a NE source
 
So Indies already have access to devkits?

https://www.facebook.com/BplusGames...8618&comment_tracking={"tn":"R1"}&pnref=story

Not possible cause this game is made for NX but modified to be released on Steam earlier cause sadly I'm not able to wait til NX and need to release this game soon. But the Steam-Version will see some Updates and grow, grow and grow AND you can create Levels to use in several modes and share them with NX players too!! émoticône grin
Click to expand...

And why would the NX version have more colors to play with?

https://www.facebook.com/BplusGames...d=991824587554866&comment_tracking={"tn":"R"}

The PC-Version will run on slower PCs too - I modified it that way. NX Version will be different in many kinds - and cause of the controls you will be able to use 8 different colors instead of 4 ... which opens possibilities to completely different pictures and modes for NX Version.
Click to expand...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

We already know about the launch titles for next generation consoles, don’t we?
2 3
144
3K
powder replied
Top 10 Games of The 2020's So Far
2
81
505
icecold1983 replied
Arc Raiders 324,925 CCU on Steam so far
2 3 4
174
803
Quixz replied
So what do we think the next Larian's game gonna be?
21
656
calico replied
What is it about Nintendo that you appreciate the most?
2
66
2K
Ribi replied
Top Bottom