FewRope
Member
But is not a sequel in another hardware lol this doesnt make any sense
The theme of disappointing sequels and what is going on
- Thread starter cormack12
- Start date
Aion002
Member
I only played 5 hours so far.
The graphics are amazing, but gameplay-wise I didn't see much difference from the first one. I probably have to unlock new stuff, right?
Unknown?
Member
Sure it does, it's a port to other hardware. The point being that all hardware doesn't have big leaps.
Durin
Member
I've long accepted the diminished return in graphics. If anything I would welcome them doing even less with graphics if it dropped the dev time, and upped the risk taking on design/mechanics.
Waiting longer for safer sequels (that are even buggy/broken) just doesn't make AAA titles as compelling anymore. I'd rather see what smaller developers do with less resources and also pay less in the process.
Waiting longer for safer sequels (that are even buggy/broken) just doesn't make AAA titles as compelling anymore. I'd rather see what smaller developers do with less resources and also pay less in the process.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Let me put it this way. I finished the story at just under 65 hours played earlier this week, and since I've been playing the post-game to max out achievements, I'm seeing stuff daily that I've not encountered before. And I'm not talking about unlocks, I'm talking about mechanics and in-world stuff.
There's a level of intricacy that is extremely unusual.
It just boggles my mind that people are acting like retaining the same core gameplay loop in a direct sequel is somehow considered to be a problem. Especially when the range of options available is so comprehensive, I find myself asking what exactly was Kojima expected to add or change to make the experience "different".
Which is even setting aside the obvious question as to whether fundamentally changing an established working formula is desirable in the first place.
Angry_Megalodon
Member
It's not only about little graphics improvement. What annoys me the most is the lack of gameplay and mission innovations. There's no excuse for that. Till when are we going to play through the same copy pasted Ubisoft-like settlements we need to clear? Isn't there a better way to do that? Just an example.
I'd accept the small tech leap if the sequel progressed in other aspects. It doesnt. And I'm surprised that most people forget about the gameplay leaps between generations. This gen is the first in history where there is no evolution from the previous one, the games are exactly the same but with a slightly better tech. In my book, that's not enough.
I'd accept the small tech leap if the sequel progressed in other aspects. It doesnt. And I'm surprised that most people forget about the gameplay leaps between generations. This gen is the first in history where there is no evolution from the previous one, the games are exactly the same but with a slightly better tech. In my book, that's not enough.
FewRope
Member
Oh alright lmao My apologies
ValiantInstance
Member
There is no justification for any game that isn't made by Rockstar to take longer than 4 years.
It's a combination of things, the meltdown over 'crunch culture' and less talented devs being hired who have no imagination. Game development is now so mainstream that it is just another high paying career path for some people rather than a passion.
Dev teams are also getting incredibly bloated. A reminder that a game like Call of Duty 4 was made by barely 100 people. They included the receptionist in the credits.
FewRope
Member
I dont know man, my experience has been quite similar to the first DS, even more easy. I have yet to finish the game and the gameplay loop is something that I love but I can see people issues with that kind of thing. When MGS2 launched it played so different from 1 and then MGS3 played way more different than 2, that kind of sauce I think is lost in gaming
PlayStaytion
Member
What's wrong with outsourcing the good s? I don't see any problem with that. The end product what matters in the end.Someone suggested we break this out into a separate thread, so why are some high profile sequels being dismissed as 'DLC', 'expansions', 'lazy' or 'iterative instead of innovative'. It seems to be striking a large number of games these days and no one is safe. These arent my person opinion just an example of all games that came under flak for their delivery
God of War
Hellblade II
Doom: The Dark Ages (Eternal was also divisive)
Monster Hunter Wilds
Halo Infinite (but let's face it, guardians could be here too)
Mario Kart World
Tears of the Kingdom (divisive)
Spider-Man 2
Forbidden West
Dragon's Dogma II
Greedfall II
Life is Strange
Ghost of Yotei (immediate reactions)
Veilguard
Many others as well, but what is happening? Are we all just too cynical these days? Is the quality suffering? Are you expecting sequels to change things up a lot more (e.g. Helldivers)
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Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
I wouldn't put it that way exactly, but I agree that anything over 4 years is deeply undesirable.
If you're looking to compete at the highest level, there are no shortcuts. Complexity increases labour and management cost, period. I'd also point out that the elongation of dev cost/cycles did not start with Covid conditions, its been a constant for the past 25 years. Which begs the question that were there to be an industry wide imperative to cut back on time and budget, to which period -as a point of comparison- should be considered the ideal goal? And as consumers would we be happy were things rolled back to that status quo?
I've got to be honest and wonder how reliable and representative credits scrolls and headcounts as stated in PR actually are. I mean when most AAA games utilize outsourcing so heavily, I wonder how many of these off-site staff are actually involved hands-on, and how many are just contractually guaranteed to have their name on the product regardless of effort.
Kacho
Member
midnightAI
Member
Ghost of Yotei looks phenomenal though, and Forbidden West is a huge upgrade over the orginal.Someone suggested we break this out into a separate thread, so why are some high profile sequels being dismissed as 'DLC', 'expansions', 'lazy' or 'iterative instead of innovative'. It seems to be striking a large number of games these days and no one is safe. These arent my person opinion just an example of all games that came under flak for their delivery
God of War
Hellblade II
Doom: The Dark Ages (Eternal was also divisive)
Monster Hunter Wilds
Halo Infinite (but let's face it, guardians could be here too)
Mario Kart World
Tears of the Kingdom (divisive)
Spider-Man 2
Forbidden West
Dragon's Dogma II
Greedfall II
Life is Strange
Ghost of Yotei (immediate reactions)
Veilguard
Many others as well, but what is happening? Are we all just too cynical these days? Is the quality suffering? Are you expecting sequels to change things up a lot more (e.g. Helldivers)
Do you expect sequals to be VASTLY different to the original? if so you will be disappointed with pretty much every sequel ever made.
owandeseis
Member
Most of the games from that list are forgettable as fuck, and doing the side stuff from the open world ones is closer to a torture than to an enjoyment.
KCD 2 could be in that list.... but it's one of the best games from this decade, and everything from it except the combat is outstanding, would rather do some sidequests from that game again than replaying anything from some of the games on your list.
Stop adding tons of uninspired content just to be able to say your game will last XXX hours, developers
KCD 2 could be in that list.... but it's one of the best games from this decade, and everything from it except the combat is outstanding, would rather do some sidequests from that game again than replaying anything from some of the games on your list.
Stop adding tons of uninspired content just to be able to say your game will last XXX hours, developers
Secret_Lover
Member
I don´t think there is anything all that complicated about why some people find modern sequels boring. An example of a franchise that I would consider to have good sequels would be something like Metal Gear. MGS2 and MGS3 both released on the PS2 and they aren´t that far apart in terms of raw graphical output and yet you could pick any random screenshot from either of those games and instantly discern which game its from. The setting, environments, characters, UI, OST, pretty much everything visually is completely different. The core stealth gameplay/game identity/goofball humor is still there but everything around that has been changed radically, and these games released only 3 years apart.
The difference between something like GoW(2018) vs GoW:Ragnarok seems laughable by comparison A longer development cycle for what mostly amounts to minimal visual improvements and a handful of QoL changes?
I don´t mean to be overly negative but nowadays almost invariably when I fire up a sequel within an hour of playing I am overwhelmed with the sensation that I already played this exact same shit like 5 years ago. GoW, ToTK, Nioh 2, Spiderman 2, a whole bunch of others really. There´s just so much content being reused from game to game that they all feel closer to expansion packs than full releases to me.
It is what it is I guess. I agree with the sentiment that there is perhaps too much negativity around everything in this forum nowadays but this feels like a topic where its justified to me. It just seems so boring to wait so long between new game reveals and once they finally come around we get zero surprises, zero risk-taking, zero innovation, safe, regurgitated content.
The difference between something like GoW(2018) vs GoW:Ragnarok seems laughable by comparison A longer development cycle for what mostly amounts to minimal visual improvements and a handful of QoL changes?
I don´t mean to be overly negative but nowadays almost invariably when I fire up a sequel within an hour of playing I am overwhelmed with the sensation that I already played this exact same shit like 5 years ago. GoW, ToTK, Nioh 2, Spiderman 2, a whole bunch of others really. There´s just so much content being reused from game to game that they all feel closer to expansion packs than full releases to me.
It is what it is I guess. I agree with the sentiment that there is perhaps too much negativity around everything in this forum nowadays but this feels like a topic where its justified to me. It just seems so boring to wait so long between new game reveals and once they finally come around we get zero surprises, zero risk-taking, zero innovation, safe, regurgitated content.
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IAmRei
Member
This, thank you
LordCBH
Member
This is accurate.
Certinty
Member
I genuinely don't even think these games are just disappointing, I honestly think they're outright worse than their predecessors.
DryvBy
Member
This isn't even remotely new. I've been gaming for too many decades now and it's just a cycle. I can't think of a generation where sequels weren't met with some wtf reaction.
The biggest thing going for older games was graphic technology. The leap from a year or two of production in a new engine was huge. Sometimes you wanted the same game with better graphics. The problem today is if the gameplay changes aren't significant, the graphics aren't leaps and bounds better either.
But also with these older games, you had trash sequels or sequels people hated. Here's a good list too:
Blood 2
Dungeon Siege 3
Torchlight 3
Quake 4
Final Doom
Duke Nukem Forever
ToeJam and Earl 2
Half-Life 2 (for the DRM)
Twister Metal 3 and 4
Postal 3
And the list could go on forever.
The biggest thing going for older games was graphic technology. The leap from a year or two of production in a new engine was huge. Sometimes you wanted the same game with better graphics. The problem today is if the gameplay changes aren't significant, the graphics aren't leaps and bounds better either.
But also with these older games, you had trash sequels or sequels people hated. Here's a good list too:
Blood 2
Dungeon Siege 3
Torchlight 3
Quake 4
Final Doom
Duke Nukem Forever
ToeJam and Earl 2
Half-Life 2 (for the DRM)
Twister Metal 3 and 4
Postal 3
And the list could go on forever.
AmuroChan
Member
I don't know how you can deem a game as disappointing when it isn't released yet. Maybe it's just me, but I saw quite a few QoL and gameplay refinements in GoY. I personally don't want massive changes in a direct sequel. Keep the core structure of what made the previous game good and build upon that.
ValiantInstance
Member
I can tell you with absolute certainty that game was made by 100 people. And it launched with more multiplayer maps and a better campaign than anything the current Infinity Ward has produced in the past 10 years. Not to mention completely changing online multiplayer forever.
Fake
Member
I guess is a curse Sony will never get off.
Their sequels are just weak for nature. And is the same stupid revenge plot that liberal gamers just love I guess.
God of War: Ragnarok is a abysmal sequel in comparison with his predecessor.
Progressive is kinda sucks. When infect gaming, tgis is what you guess. Repetitive premisse in about everything.
I really believe Sony will never solve this problem with sequels. People just have to accept mediocrity for now.
Their sequels are just weak for nature. And is the same stupid revenge plot that liberal gamers just love I guess.
God of War: Ragnarok is a abysmal sequel in comparison with his predecessor.
Progressive is kinda sucks. When infect gaming, tgis is what you guess. Repetitive premisse in about everything.
I really believe Sony will never solve this problem with sequels. People just have to accept mediocrity for now.
PixelatedBeast
Member
Ok Op....Can you list some examples of recently relased sequels that made big changes, and are highly distinguishable from the first game that AAA devs should follow? Games from at least the PS4 generation, because it would be too easy to list games from the PS2 or PS3 generation that saw a rapid advancement in tech.
Gamer_By_Proxy
Member
HFW improved everything and Yotei looks to do the same . . . people be dumb.
diffusionx
Gold Member
Well, in the past, if you got a sequel that was very similar to the prior game, it at least came out in 2-3 years max.
Now you have a game coming out that is indistinguishable from the prior game EXCEPT it took 5 years to make and the dev team was 3x bigger than the one that made the first one from scratch. It's a totally bizarre situation. And you can't say it is because of tech because you put that old PS4 game in unlocked BC mode at 4K/60fps and you're like 80% of the way of the way there.
Like I said, Origins came out in 2017, Odyssey in 2018, and Valhalla in 2020. Similar games, but 3 in 4 years, and then it took 5 years for Ubisoft to do that again. Doesn't make sense.
Cakeboxer
Member
AAA games take years to develop and require huge budgets, so developers tend to play it safe and avoid risks. As a result, we often get more of the same with little innovation. Also the increasing emphasis on DEI doesn't help either. Surprisingly, some still receive high ratings, but hopefully, that will change at some point. The industry needs to embrace more creativity by making shorter, less expensive, and more innovative games,
TintoConCasera
I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
Nothing wrong with a sequel being "more of the same" in terms of gameplay, as long as it improves the base formula.
Sure there has been a ton of shitty sequels recently but that isn't nothing new, and there's also being imo incredibly good sequels released recently like Kingdom Come 2.
Also see some people saying that we are too cynical and jaded for being critical, but I think the opposite is way worse. Users being too complacent is what leads companies like Capcom to release half-assed games like that last MH that didn't even include the multiplayer hub on release. That shit is criminal.
Imo being critical is a sign of care and love for the medium.
Sure there has been a ton of shitty sequels recently but that isn't nothing new, and there's also being imo incredibly good sequels released recently like Kingdom Come 2.
Also see some people saying that we are too cynical and jaded for being critical, but I think the opposite is way worse. Users being too complacent is what leads companies like Capcom to release half-assed games like that last MH that didn't even include the multiplayer hub on release. That shit is criminal.
Imo being critical is a sign of care and love for the medium.
BbMajor7th
Member
Two words: BIG DATA. Most major corporates these days are looking to validate every business decision with a stack of data. Sadly, data can only show you what worked previously. As such, they iterate rather than innovate, taking what was successful and making more of it. The big crash we're seeing in games right now is almost wholly accountable to this: an assumption by corporate middle-management that you can take an industry predicated on risk and innovation and run it on iteration and restatement.
What most of these corporates refuse to accept is that there is no safe and predictable way to drive success in this industry. You have to be unpredictable and disruptive: in an era that driving grey-brown realism and cinematic action you have to build a game like Minecraft; when every other studio is driving fast-paced real-time action, you have to build a game like Baldur's Gate 3. And importantly, you have stick to your vision, even when it doesn't set the world on fire the first try: accept middling success with a few attempts (DOS1&2) before you finally crack the nut.
What most of these corporates refuse to accept is that there is no safe and predictable way to drive success in this industry. You have to be unpredictable and disruptive: in an era that driving grey-brown realism and cinematic action you have to build a game like Minecraft; when every other studio is driving fast-paced real-time action, you have to build a game like Baldur's Gate 3. And importantly, you have stick to your vision, even when it doesn't set the world on fire the first try: accept middling success with a few attempts (DOS1&2) before you finally crack the nut.
Fbh
Member
It's mostly just publishers becoming increasingly risk averse because of the rising budgets, and focusing on a "more of the same" approach, Sony in particular.
As for the visuals, that's the part I've really liked this gen. The generational leap isn't textures, it's 60fps with decent IQ, and I love it. I'm not particularly interested in Yotei but I think it looks beautiful in motion, if it were a 30fps game for the sake of graphics I'd probably just skip it instead of waiting to get it on sale.
This.
There have always been disappointing sequels.
I think the biggest factor these days is that lengthy development cycled have heightened the disappointment. There were 4 years between DMC1 and DMC3, they went from a great start, to crap sequel to the GOAT in 4 years. Imagine if people had waited 5 years only to get DMC2.
As for the visuals, that's the part I've really liked this gen. The generational leap isn't textures, it's 60fps with decent IQ, and I love it. I'm not particularly interested in Yotei but I think it looks beautiful in motion, if it were a 30fps game for the sake of graphics I'd probably just skip it instead of waiting to get it on sale.
This.
There have always been disappointing sequels.
I think the biggest factor these days is that lengthy development cycled have heightened the disappointment. There were 4 years between DMC1 and DMC3, they went from a great start, to crap sequel to the GOAT in 4 years. Imagine if people had waited 5 years only to get DMC2.
tmlDan
Member
That's cause you're old, i felt the same playing GOW1 to GOW2, or any other sequel back in the day apart from graphical upgrades. Like legitimately tell me what old sequels did massively better in sequels? or changed dramatically? I can't think of any, other than basically switching POV's/genres which some did like Fallout 1-2 did when it went to 3.
TerribleAtThisGame
Member
Why don't you buy a ouija board and ask Marvin Gaye?
Denton
Member
Spitfire098
Member
Who's we all?
TerribleAtThisGame
Member
To not just shitpost...
I haven't really had this issue too often so far as I tend to play very few of the blockbuster AAAAAA releases quite frankly. What I am observing though is that they seem to prioritize what I consider window dressing over meaningful gameplay, level design and mechanics advancements. That's been a thing for ages though and doesn't feel like anything new to me. The particularly innovative sequels are high watermarks we remember fondly and below that are hundreds of generic-ass platformers with a new character sprite and fifteen new levels. I just think it feels shittier because sequels take five years and more and you can't shrug off a shitty Part 2 because Part 3 is coming in a year or two and maybe that'll be better.
Ironically, I think TLoU2 was a great sequel gameplay-wise in that it fulfilled the original's promise. Major upgrade in terms of combat, level design and just...fun. The Game That Cannot Be Named though and all though, I'm sorry in advance. Not really lulz fuck you.
I haven't really had this issue too often so far as I tend to play very few of the blockbuster AAAAAA releases quite frankly. What I am observing though is that they seem to prioritize what I consider window dressing over meaningful gameplay, level design and mechanics advancements. That's been a thing for ages though and doesn't feel like anything new to me. The particularly innovative sequels are high watermarks we remember fondly and below that are hundreds of generic-ass platformers with a new character sprite and fifteen new levels. I just think it feels shittier because sequels take five years and more and you can't shrug off a shitty Part 2 because Part 3 is coming in a year or two and maybe that'll be better.
Ironically, I think TLoU2 was a great sequel gameplay-wise in that it fulfilled the original's promise. Major upgrade in terms of combat, level design and just...fun. The Game That Cannot Be Named though and all though, I'm sorry in advance. Not really lulz fuck you.
Sethbacca
Member
Literally this. People need to just accept that we're not gonna ever see the leaps we saw through the ps3/ps4 gens ever again.
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Throttle
Member
For many of those the disappointment boils down to woke, specially the Sony stuff.Someone suggested we break this out into a separate thread, so why are some high profile sequels being dismissed as 'DLC', 'expansions', 'lazy' or 'iterative instead of innovative'. It seems to be striking a large number of games these days and no one is safe. These arent my person opinion just an example of all games that came under flak for their delivery
God of War
Hellblade II
Doom: The Dark Ages (Eternal was also divisive)
Monster Hunter Wilds
Halo Infinite (but let's face it, guardians could be here too)
Mario Kart World
Tears of the Kingdom (divisive)
Spider-Man 2
Forbidden West
Dragon's Dogma II
Greedfall II
Life is Strange
Ghost of Yotei (immediate reactions)
Veilguard
Many others as well, but what is happening? Are we all just too cynical these days? Is the quality suffering? Are you expecting sequels to change things up a lot more (e.g. Helldivers)
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
Ok? Bottom looks clearly way better technicallyoh look, I can play this game too
diffusionx
Gold Member
God of War 2 came out 2 years after the first one.
I don't think anyone would be complaining if we were getting these games every other year. But even then, it wasn't always like that - Jak 2 came out 2 years after the first game and was an entirely different game.
i don't understand how a studio needs thousands of people and 5 years to make the same game over again with light tweaks here and there techically that you only notice when you put ti right next to the old one in a YouTube video. Something is majorly broken, but I have a feeling that nobody is talking about it because it benefits the friends of people like Schreier.
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The Mad Draklor
Member
It's either that the sequels are huge letdown or they don't provide significant enough improvements to really warrant a purchase at full price. Much of it is due to publishers wanting to play it safe.
The solution is simple if the modern stuff isn't appealing. Just play older games as they are plentiful and often cheap.
The solution is simple if the modern stuff isn't appealing. Just play older games as they are plentiful and often cheap.