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[Gaiff]

Ever since XIII, this has been one of the most polarized franchises around. I only have passive knowledge of the games, but I frequently interact with the fans and have a few friends who are diehards. The reception has been quite uneven for almost a decade and a half. From what I saw, this is how it goes:

Final Fantasy XIII: Some say it's good. Others say it's awful. Considered the weakest main game up to that point.

Final Fantasy XIII-2: Somewhat improved from its predecessor but still not good.

Lightning Returns: Awful game. Panned by critics and fans alike. Definitely the worst of the bunch.

Final Fantast XV: Extremely uneven due to its protracted development. A mishmash of good and bad ideas that result in a messy soup of great and terrible things.

Final Fantasy XVI: Either the best one since X, or the worst piece of trash ever. On this very site, I've seen people praise how great it is, only for the next post to say it's absolute garbage. Same for the subreddits and fan communities. Some say there are too many cinematics and that they want the game to go back to being turned-based because action games suck. Others say turn-based games are a thing of the past brought about by technical limitations and that they shouldn't exist anymore. They also think FF games are meant to be epic cinematic experiences. I tried the demo myself. It was alright (though that Eikon battle was epic), but I've been repeatedly told that I've played the best part of the game and that I shouldn't bother with a purchase.

Anyway, before that, most fans seemed to love the series. There were favorites but almost no one thought VII or IX were trash. They all liked them to varying degrees. So, what happened to the series? What direction did it take for critics and fans alike to be so divided over the reception of the last few entries?

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Play them.

Impossible to explain here.

All I will say is, upto 12, they are legit great games. Not sure after that.

 

[IFireflyl]

The most important thing that is wrong with modern Final Fantasy games is that they are no longer JRPGs. Honestly, ever since SquareSoft was acquired by Enix, Final Fantasy has sucked. If they ditched the Final Fantasy moniker, I think I could like the games better. But calling them Final Fantasy is an insult to those of us who grew up on the original games.

 

[Power Pro]

Ever since XIII, this has been one of the most polarized franchises around. I only have passive knowledge of the games, but I frequently interact with the fans and have a few friends who are diehards. The reception has been quite uneven for almost a decade and a half. From what I saw, this is how it goes:

Final Fantasy XIII: Some say it's good. Others say it's awful. Considered the weakest main game up to that point.

Final Fantasy XIII-2: Somewhat improved from its predecessor but still not good.

Lightning Returns: Awful game. Panned by critics and fans alike. Definitely the worst of the bunch.

Final Fantast XV: Extremely uneven due to its protracted development. A mishmash of good and bad ideas that result in a messy soup of great and terrible things.

Final Fantasy XVI: Either the best one since X, or the worst piece of trash ever. On this very site, I've seen people praise how great it is, only for the next post to say it's absolute garbage. Same for the subreddits and fan communities. Some say there are too many cinematics and that they want the game to go back to being turned-based because action games suck. Others say turn-based games are a thing of the past brought about by technical limitations and that they shouldn't exist anymore. They also think FF games are meant to be epic cinematic experiences. I tried the demo myself. It was alright (though that Eikon battle was epic), but I've been repeatedly told that I've played the best part of the game and that I shouldn't bother with a purchase.

Anyway, before that, most fans seemed to love the series. There were favorites but almost no one thought VII or IX were trash. They all liked them to varying degrees. So, what happened to the series? What direction did it take for critics and fans alike to be so divided over the reception of the last few entries?

People, and fan bases are not a hive mind. One man's trash is another man's treasure. While some games may have consensus because they seem like they're praised or trashed more than others, not everyone thinks the same. You just said that Lightning Returns is an awful game and was panned by fans and critics and worse of the bunch....yeah, I don't agree with that cuz I liked it.

So I don't know what answer you're looking for. People are different and come in all varieties. That's the answer.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

13-2 and 1 are probably my favourite entries; 15 might be the weakest out of the moderns ones for me, the atrocious performance on xbox one probably didn't help.

 

[GymWolf]

Last great one was 9.

 

[Shifty1897]

The series has become too many things to too many different people. You can't make them all happy. IMO the IP is damaged and needs to be retired or relegated to remakes.

 

[Generic]

Fans grew up but don't want to admit the target audience of FF are teenagers.

 

[diffusionx]

If Octopath Traveler 2 was Final Fantasy XVI, everyone would have said it was the best game in the series since PSX. Yet they make these bloated crappy action games for... I don't even know why. If you want to make a crappy action game, make one. They released Dirge of Cerebus on PS2. But don't make it a mainline game.

 

[Larxia]

Lightning Returns: Awful game. Panned by critics and fans alike. Definitely the worst of the bunch.

Lightning Returns is good. It does have a cheap vibe compared to the previous entries, the visuals are really not as good and it's overall quite rough. But it's still a really fun game, with in my opinion the best combat system in the entire series.

 

[Buggy Loop]

They blow all their load into action mechanics and graphics, then marketing, and then you scrape the bottom to make side quests and you end up with brain dead fetch quests.

They totally forgot what makes FF interesting

 

[Comandr]

Weird that you are making a thread about a series you don’t have much experience with but okay.

To me, it feels like Final Fantasy was a big deal for a long time. Many games were met with massive anticipation and rave reviews. Final Fantasy became a huge name in the industry.

Time went on, expectations changed and evolved, and Final Fantasy evolved* with it.

The games became more experimental as focus testing or player surveys indicated people wanted more clear stories, action focus, etc. now factor in both new and old staff, polarizing directions internally and externally and here we are.

So looking back at it, now, the series feels like a mess of different ideas and confused identity. Because that’s exactly what it is.

Honestly Bravely Default and Bravely Second are some of the best, modern “final fantasy” games I can think of. Simple story. Yadda yadda magic crystals, job system, turn based battles. Honestly, they’re great.

Let’s hope Dragon Quest 12 doesn’t fuck it up and go the FF16 route.

 

[RoboFu]

14 is the only real FF game left. 6 is still the best so far. 12 was pretty good but most others from 8 through 15 are generic Japanese "school kids on an adventure" mediocrity. 16 got the setting right but it isn't even a real rpg.

 

[TintoConCasera]

Honestly Bravely Default and Bravely Second are some of the best, modern “final fantasy” games I can think of. Simple story. Yadda yadda magic crystals, job system, turn based battles. Honestly, they’re great.

Agreed. Also wish there were more Final Fantasy games like V, out of the ones I've played it's the most fun to me.

 

[tmlDan]

I didnt like 12, i did like 16.

I think whats missing with 16 that could have made it one of the greats is its RPG aspect. We need that sense of adventure, discovery, and optional bosses with huge rewards that we had in FF10 (and prior).

Take lessons from FF7 (OG) and ER and allow us to discover a quest that give sus the best weapon in the game, not a hand out side quest in the base. I do think the stories are still relatively strong, its just some core game aspects that are missing.

 

[Mephisto40]

There isn't really much "wrong" with it, considering whether you think it's wrong or right now, is completely subjective

 

[XXL]

Most of them are pretty great.

The issue is most people just want duplicates of things they have already played and FF changes things up drastically all the time.

People say they want new things, but they really don't.

 

[diffusionx]

Most of them are pretty great.

The issue is most people just want duplicates of things they have already played and FF changes things up drastically all the time.

People say they want new things, but they really don't.

People want new stuff that is good.

 

[swaffles23]

The Final Fantasy fandom is just very divided on how the series should be. Everyone has their favorite game that is some elses most hated.

 

[kunonabi]

They're "rpgs" made by people who seemingly hate rpgs and are obsessed with turning the franchise into a series of really bad action games which end up serving no one.

This might have still been passable had the writing not gone to complete shit outside of the mmos and had their development teams not wasted ridiculous amounts of time and money but oh well.

Whats worse when they do stumble on to something with potential they completely screw it up. Everybody wanted an Agni's philosophy game and they took that and made freaking Forspoken instead.

 

[Punished Miku]

XIII, for all its flaws, was the last mainline entry with a unique vision.

Since then they just are listening to fans to try and fix the backlash this entire time; which amounts to a design by committee vibe and can never be exciting or new, since fans don't ever know what they want. XIV chased WoW and fan service. XV tried to chase western open world games. XVI tried to chase DMC, action games, and western tastes with Game of Thrones. VII Remake is the kind of project that would only be greenlight to try and meet loud fan demand. No artists can create products without being affected by the amount of sustained hate they got. It messes with their heads, and makes them more conservative.

There's other reasons as well. Overuse of the IP for 30+ years. I genuinely don't know if any new subversive take on Shiva, Chocobos and Cid can get me excited anymore.

SQEX does try new IP though and no one buys it, so here we are. More chocobos.

 

[TheDarkPhantom]

To answer I'll quote myself:

I loved FFXVI, I love Remake, I love all FFs for different reasons. One of the worst things about the FF fandom is the tendency to choose one or two favourites and then shit on the rest, I don't have that problem. All of this is to say I really don't care which team does FFXVII, I'll be there day 1 and I'm sure I'll love it, Final Fantasy for life .

To summarize: the main problem is the "fans", not the games.

Edit: and many of the replies in this thread predictably proving my point

 

[Ojeteespacial]

As a long time fan i put the line on XII, after the acquisition by Enix. To me the best part was the script and the new producers and bosses screwed It. Bought XII when It came out and didnt even finished It.

 

[Roman Empire]

Idk XII, XIII-2, XVI are very good games. Maybe not the best but Final Fantasy hasn't been this behemoth of an IP for a while now. If it were that big and relevant to the mainstream crowd there wouldn't be the need of explaining that every single mainline entry is a standalone game. No wonder Square wants to drop the numbering convention so people stop asking that every time a new game is announced.

 

[BennyBlanco]

the quality fell off dramatically after FFX. Although to be fair I have never really given FFXII a shot.

 

[Werewolf Jones]

Final Fantasy stopped being great after Sakaguchi left. FF X is not a good game, it's OK at best.

Funny though because people were brutal on XII back in the day but I guess if you speed up the game it goes from a 6 to an 8.

 

[Days like these...]

FF been trash since X. I heard XII was good but I noped out after X.

 

[The_Halls_of_Midwich_]

Pretty nuanced topic. All I have to say at the moment is that, my favorite FF is 8. They did something new with 8, but it felt fresh to me, totally unique. A lot of people criticize that game, but I think it's a bit of a masterpiece of surrealism, though admittedly the leveling system leaves much to be desired. The next time they did something different was 10, which paid off as well imo, even if it was pretty linear. They tried to reinvent at 13, scrapped it, and left behind a husk of a game. Ever since then, they've been trying to find themselves.

 

[sigmaZ]

Ever since XIII, this has been one of the most polarized franchises around. I only have passive knowledge of the games, but I frequently interact with the fans and have a few friends who are diehards. The reception has been quite uneven for almost a decade and a half. From what I saw, this is how it goes:

Final Fantasy XIII: Some say it's good. Others say it's awful. Considered the weakest main game up to that point.

Final Fantasy XIII-2: Somewhat improved from its predecessor but still not good.

Lightning Returns: Awful game. Panned by critics and fans alike. Definitely the worst of the bunch.

Final Fantast XV: Extremely uneven due to its protracted development. A mishmash of good and bad ideas that result in a messy soup of great and terrible things.

Final Fantasy XVI: Either the best one since X, or the worst piece of trash ever. On this very site, I've seen people praise how great it is, only for the next post to say it's absolute garbage. Same for the subreddits and fan communities. Some say there are too many cinematics and that they want the game to go back to being turned-based because action games suck. Others say turn-based games are a thing of the past brought about by technical limitations and that they shouldn't exist anymore. They also think FF games are meant to be epic cinematic experiences. I tried the demo myself. It was alright (though that Eikon battle was epic), but I've been repeatedly told that I've played the best part of the game and that I shouldn't bother with a purchase.

Anyway, before that, most fans seemed to love the series. There were favorites but almost no one thought VII or IX were trash. They all liked them to varying degrees. So, what happened to the series? What direction did it take for critics and fans alike to be so divided over the reception of the last few entries?

Actually, I'll be the rat bastard who will say it. The series lost itself after 7.
1-5 were the most similar expanding upon game systems and storytelling as the series progressed.
6 lost some themes but expanded upon others in interesting new ways but kept the same core transversal and battle system style.
I think 7 was the peak experience at the time for the series. It pretty much did everything to the max on top of the standards on the foundation of the games before it.
After that, the series really just became a parody of itself (Perhaps it's not unlike the Friday the 13th Series in that regard)
8 decided to mess with too many systems and its story parted tradition in tone and dialogue. Animations became slower as well transversal.
9 is a throwback, but besides name and theme references, it's really quite different in tone from the other games. Battles became slower.
10 was a complete revamp in many ways. A much more modern, poppier take on the series. Got rid of things the world map completely. Battles were snappy and tactical. Created the infamous sphere grid.
11 was an MMO and it really have any of the systems of FF at all just the music and the themes.
12 was another revamp. Completely new battle system and approach modelled more off of MMOs.
13 had similar poppy vibes and was linear like 10 with a unique battle system, but a story and progression that was nothing like the previous games and felt more linear than 10 in ways.
14 was another MMO based a lot on western MMOs but with FF themes. It hits a lot of nostalgia chords and some of its narrative and characters are well regarded, but it's gameplay and systems are completely its own thing.
15 wasn't even supposed to be 15. It was rushed and thrown together. It had some themes from the series, but the game and its systems were its own thing.
16 is a DMC game larping as and RPG using FF tropes.

So, yeah. The only thing tying the series together anymore is the tropes and series title and the anticipation it invokes to be honest.
This is to be expected when you consider that the original team that built series are long gone and are old heads now that just want to experiment with stuff.
I wouldn't anything is necessarily wrong with the series though. There are people who prefer the later games, especially the younger crowd. So, depending on what people associate the series with is going to determine how they feel with the direction of things.
I personally would like more gung-ho, but emotional fantasy steampunk stuff like the original series (minus the furry stuff of 9).

 

[RoboFu]

To answer I'll quote myself:



To summarize: the main problem is the "fans", not the games.

nah there is a reason remakes of old games are so popular. they were much better than newer crap.

 

[XXL]

People want new stuff that is good.

Not true, look at Hollywood.

As for FF, most them are.

They just don't fit into the "I know that" mind state that plagues pretty much any creative output recently.

 

[rm082e]

I loved the SNES and PS1 games. FFX was the last one I really liked. I played and finished 12 and thought it was meh. I tried playing most of the main line games after that and always found them to be lame. The stories aren't interesting, and they're soap opera dramatic in a way that has me rolling my eyes, then the combat is no fun.

I played about 15 hours of FF16 before falling off. The story seemed okay and the VO was fine, but it was paced too slow for me and the combat didn't feel challenging or interesting.

I think the combination of loot based RPGs and Souls games pretty much ruined the game play of the FF series for me. Those two types of action feel much more engaging than anything FF has done. On the other side, I connect with the narratives from western developers much more than JP devs. So when I play a modern FF game, I'm enjoying both the combat and narrative less than I used to. I think it's just a case of me evolving in a different direction than the developer.

 

[XXL]

nah there is a reason remakes of old games are so popular.

 

[FoxMcChief]

They went away from turned based and went to shit.

 

[Aion002]

S-E likes to change stuff a lot after each game and with XIII onwards they abandoned many of the traditional things that old FF games have.


XIII is linear, so many hate it for the linearity.

XIII-2 is more akin to traditional FF games, but still have some things from XIII and since is a sequel to it, it is easier to hate it.

XIII-3 is completely different to all other FF games and is quite experimental, which makes many people hate it with a passion.

XV story telling approach and having key parts locked behind other content hurted the plot a lot, so people that didn't watch the movie, for example, felt that the game was incomplete (which kinda was, until all the dlcs and updates).

XVI is an action game first and a FF second. Not a traditional FF at all.


Most people expect FF games to have cool open worlds to explore, different towns to visit, multiple playable party members, secrets to discover, cool side quests and charismatic characters in a entertaining story. Unfortunately, those FF games lacks some (or most) of those things...

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

I find that all FF games are great. Well to me at least.

But FF has a problem. It's not a problem per see... but what ends up being one. Every FF game is kinda its own thing. And why that is a problem, is that a lot of gamers actually low-key just want more of the same.

So they make an Action JRPG focused on just one character, and all those that want a party-based turn-based game will be out with pitchforks.

They make a party-based game, and you have one camp saying it sucks cause its not using a job system, another saying it sucks cause its not using the gambit system, another saying that its a QTE simulator, and another saying its too old school and stuck in the past.

So that's the issue, with a game like FF that kinda reinvents itself with every entry... you literally cannot make everyone happy.

 

[Catphish]

All I want is something like a modern day VII; a party of 4, turn-based combat, lots of things to do, a good story, airships and boats, places to explore, and wicked effects for spells and conjurings.

VII is widely considered the best FF for a reason. Why they won't use it as a template for new games is fucking stupefying to me.

 

[keefged4]

IX / X were the last really good FF games imo. Everything after that is a bit meh. Dragon Quest XI shits all over recent Final Fantasy entries.

 

[Madflavor]

There's a lot to dive into as to why the Final Fantasy series declined after FFX. I would point to the financial disaster of Final Fantasy The Spirits Within, which also led to Hironobu Sakaguchi's departure, as the event that truly kicked off the beginning of the decline. But back in the 90s, the series not only had the luxury of being made at a time where video games could be made within a year, but it also had a ton of momentum behind it. Sakaguchi and his team were on a creative roll. Sometimes you just can't get that spark back.

The franchise has already been around for a few decades, with different playstyles and types of settings. So now you've got all kinds of fans who have their own idea on what Final Fantasy should be. So even if a good FF game comes out, that happens to be in a medieval High Fantasy setting, there will be a subsection of fans who will think the game sucks because it's not Futuristic Fantasy or some shit. The IP is in a tough place right now.

I would say that if ever there was a time for them to go back to their roots, and make a turn based combat Final Fantasy with a more modest budget, it's now. They can't keep fucking around with the formula, it's not working anymore, and financially these games are on a decline.

 

[diffusionx]

Not true, look at Hollywood.

As for FF, most them are.

They just don't fit into the "I know that" mind state that plagues pretty much any creative output recently.

This is subjective but they’re really, really not. Other people have pointed out games like Bravely Default that were new and good. And considering FF changes with each installment, there is absolutely no reason why they couldn’t call BD Final Fantasy N and would have gotten raves. Except for some reason Square feels the need to chase trends, build tech they are incapable of building, and spend a gazillion years making a main FF game. It’s just stupid.

 

[XXL]

there is absolutely no reason why they couldn’t call BD Final Fantasy N and would have gotten raves.

 

[NanaMiku]

I think FF have become worse because the target have change from great stories to great graphics.

The most important thing that is wrong with modern Final Fantasy games is that they are no longer JRPGs. Honestly, every since SquareSoft was acquired by Enix, Final Fantasy has sucked. If they ditched the Final Fantasy moniker, I think I could like the games better. But calling them Final Fantasy is an insult to those of us who grew up on the original games.

I think both Square and Enix have become worse after the merger. Enix's games are also suffering. Look at Star Ocean

 

[Psychostar]

The most important thing that is wrong with modern Final Fantasy games is that they are no longer JRPGs. Honestly, every since SquareSoft was acquired by Enix, Final Fantasy has sucked. If they ditched the Final Fantasy moniker, I think I could like the games better. But calling them Final Fantasy is an insult to those of us who grew up on the original games

I thought so too but then I quite enjoyed 16. It had a great story, great voice acting, amazing cinematics and decent world building. The only things I'd change on that are:
- Remove the unnecessary chests and fluff items we had to pick up.. Loot was useless and there was no real point to exploration. The game would have benefited from fully investing in it's linearity in the end.
- Reduce the excess flashiness/particles in battle. I loved the battle system but the start of the game felt more enjoyable at times due to things being more visible on screen. As you progress it gets to a point where you can't digest what's happening on screen, you just know that you destroyed all of the things. I tried recommending the game to people uninitiated in Final Fantasy games and the particle effects being turned to 200% put them all off.
- Game should been harder when it launched. It was too easy and there were too many checkpoints, killing any challenge. The DLC did a great job of rectifying this.

I consider "Final Fantasy 7 R" trilogy mainline. I think most people will agree with me here. I think most will agree that both games out right now are also brilliant, with the sequel really improving upon everything we've seen in Remake in the same way Arkham City improved on Arkham Asylum. FF7R trilogy really carries the spirit of what made FF7 so great when we were kids and I found myself tapping into the same feelings I had playing the original so many years back. The characters are all so loveable and iconic and they were done so well. The combat is outstanding and unlike anything in the games industry before it and the difficulty was so well handled!

Given how strong these last 3 games were, I have no doubt that whatever FF17 holds, it will surely be on the right footing if it takes it's learnings from these last 3 games.

 

[Bernardougf]

XIII was bad
XV was an atrocity and the worst game I played of the ps4 gen
XVI is only FF in its name ... I can name F1 2025 .. Rally Dakar 2025 and it wont be a rally game.

The derparture from turn based and real summons killed the game for me ... I think simpler stories, more focus on art than graphics and a real turn based old school system would do wonders for their next game ... they tried the action modern thing and is not sticking... while a lot of turn based games continue to do well.

 

[MISTER INVEIGLER]

If Octopath Traveler 2 was Final Fantasy XVI, everyone would have said it was the best game in the series since PSX. Yet they make these bloated crappy action games for... I don't even know why. If you want to make a crappy action game, make one. They released Dirge of Cerebus on PS2. But don't make it a mainline game.

Yeah, I really liked Octopath Traveler 2. What's so frustrating with SE is, they can still make good JRPGs, they just choose to crap the bed when comes to the mainline FF games.

 

[Hudo]

I can name F1 2025 .. Rally Dakar 2025 and it wont be a rally game.

I kinda want them to do that right now. Just to see the meltdown from the hardcore tryhards of both fanbases.

 

[HextarVigar]

Last great one was 9.

That's a strange way to say 12.

10-2 was just embarrassing - I call it Barbie's First RPG.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Nothing is wrong with it. It's just called Bravely Default now.

 

[cartman414]

All I want is something like a modern day VII; a party of 4, turn-based combat, lots of things to do, a good story, airships and boats, places to explore, and wicked effects for spells and conjurings.

VII is widely considered the best FF for a reason. Why they won't use it as a template for new games is fucking stupefying to me.

VII was a downgrade from VI IMO. Less effectively executed narrative and characters, battle and character customization system that mostly renderss characters materia slots...

 

[HextarVigar]

Nothing is wrong with it. It's just called Bravely Default now.

Oh come on; all they had to do was replace chocobos with brushable ponies and that would have sealed the deal.

Jesus Christ, your characters had magic dresses.

MAGIC. DRESSES.