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White House readies order on withdrawing from NAFTA

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V

Volimar

Member
wildfire said:
Seriously this assumption is idiotic. Practically every country in the world best trade partner is their neighbor. If not their best they take up #2 and #3 while China and US take the top slot.
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Hey there. I didn't say that at all, but okay. It'll be painful and it will lead to higher prices but I don't think it's quite as bad as it would have been even twenty years ago.
 
D

darkistheway

Member
Canada just a signed a trade deal with the EU.
There are ongoing negotiations with China.
I imagine a deal with Mexico could be done quickly.
Daily border trade with the US makes a lot of money for both sides.

I really don't see the Canadian government capitulating on any demands derived from the insane protectionism that Trump espouses.
 
2

2Smashed4U

Banned
BannedEpisode said:
NAFTA works by eliminating trade barriers by removing duty for the importer of goods produced in a country within the agreement.

Essentially the us goods that are still manufactured in the United States become attractive purchases for Canadians and Mexicans because US companies are able to compete with businesses in those countries by allowing those countries to not pay duties when importing your goods.

By removing NAFTA Canada and Mexico will be much less likely to purchase American goods. Or if they do it will be in smaller amounts or at highly adjusted costs. This will negatively affect the Americans working in manufacturing and shipping.

It goes both ways but I only see this as a potentially bad thing, especially if there is not a rework or replacement.
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Yeah in that sense there's no putting that genie back in the bottle, I just wonder if it's a thing we should've done in the first place.
 
X

xxracerxx

Don't worry, I'll vouch for them.
numble said:
There is no public information on what the speech is about. But stop derailing.
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Huh?

"The 44th president has accepted an offer to speak at a healthcare conference hosted by Cantor Fitzgerald in September, US media report."

It is sad to me that a thread about Obama doing a speech will get 10x the posts than this current administrations constant fuckup threads.
 
Alebrije

Alebrije

Member
BannedEpisode said:
NAFTA works by eliminating trade barriers by removing duty for the importer of goods produced in a country within the agreement.

Essentially the us goods that are still manufactured in the United States become attractive purchases for Canadians and Mexicans because US companies are able to compete with businesses in those countries by allowing those countries to not pay duties when importing your goods.

By removing NAFTA Canada and Mexico will be much less likely to purchase American goods. Or if they do it will be in smaller amounts or at highly adjusted costs. This will negatively affect the Americans working in manufacturing and shipping.

It goes both ways but I only see this as a potentially bad thing, especially if there is not a rework or replacement.
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If Trump does this It's bad because will cost jobs on both sides but specially in the U.S. also is sad to say but Mexicans are used to economic crisis and live in poverty, not people from U.S.

In overall NAFTA has been good and not a factor for unemployment grow in the U.S since most of jobs went to China or Asia not Mexico and also labor automatitation is a big factor.
 
A

Ac30

Member
RPGCrazied said:
Yep, sold out his own voters. Why am I not surprised?
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Well, I'm not even sure if he did since he promised he'd do this, the problem is, who does this actually benefit? Consumers are going to pay higher prices and this fucks with business supply chains...
 
R

RinsFury

Member
This stupid orange fuck is actually going to manage to ruin this country in four years, isn't he? We aren't going to have a single ally left.
 
RPGCrazied

RPGCrazied

Member
RinsFury said:
This stupid orange fuck is actually going to manage to ruin this country in four years, isn't he? We aren't going to have a single ally left.
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Maybe when an adult gets into office again, our allies will have pity on us and see that America was conned.
 
B

Boylamite

Member
Priority #1 for Canada should be to decouple as much of our economy from the US as possible. The less we need them the better.
 
N

numble

Member
xxracerxx said:
Huh?

"The 44th president has accepted an offer to speak at a healthcare conference hosted by Cantor Fitzgerald in September, US media report."

It is sad to me that a thread about Obama doing a speech will get 10x the posts than this current administrations constant fuckup threads.
Click to expand...

Yes, there is no information on what the speech is about. He could speak about Wall Street regulation as much as he could speak about ACA. Stop derailing.
 
M

Maxim726X

Member
I'm more interested in this- How much power does he unilaterally have to withdraw the country from NAFTA?

RPGCrazied said:
If America even survives this President. He could start a nuclear war with North Korea.
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Uhh... What?

Tell me- In what scenario does America *not* survive a 'nuclear war' with a country that can't even launch ICBMs without utter failure?
 
C

cirrhosis

Member
TeddyBoy said:
This is only going to hurt both American and Mexican business, hopefully the next President brings NAFTA back.
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I don't see why other countries should sign agreements with us if they are subject to be canceled at the whim of a new president. If I was them I would court countries with more stable and dependable leadership.
 
UberTag

UberTag

Member
Chorazin said:
Canada-US Free Trade Agreement would take over, which was prior to NAFTA. It's just Mexico that's gonna get reamed.
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How long until he gets an EO drawn up to overturn that one?

Also, any inclination for Canada/Mexico to establish their own independent trade agreement that basically reaffirms the NAFTA provisions between those two countries without the U.S. in play?
numble said:
The NAFTA text specifically says that if US withdraws it remains in place with respect to Canada and Mexico.
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Ah, good to know that's already been interwoven into the agreement. No worries then.
 
D

djkimothy

Member
UberTag said:
How long until he gets an EO drawn up to overturn that one?
Also, any inclination for Canada/Mexico to establish their own independent trade agreement that basically reaffirms the NAFTA provisions between those two countries without the U.S. in play?
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Nafta is still in play between canada and mexico. So we get to keep your mangos and avocados.
 
M

Megalosaro

Banned
In all honesty, it is in the world's best interest to rally against the US at this point.

We are the bad guys now. We should be slapped worth all sorts of embargoes and trade restrictions
 
D

djkimothy

Member
Maxim726X said:
Whew.

So we're good then.
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Well, it's up to congress. You know what though. I don't think congress would even allow it. There's too much at stake to tow the president's line on this one. They don't want to be the ones to single handidly through their economies into recession. Or maybe i'm wrong.
 
M

Madness

Member
Mortimer Brewster said:
Reminder to Canadians that if NAFTA dies, the old Canada-US Free Trade Agreement would still be in place so the effects on us would be negligible as it would become the law of the land again for trade issues between the countries. Mexico is totally fucked though
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It would fuck Mexico even more because Mexican exports would need a new agreement for Canada. Pretty crazy how this guy operates. Get ready for $89.99 to $99.99 games my Canadian brethren.
 
C

Cat Party

Member
BoogieWoogie said:
The stock market seems to be Trump proof. They haven't shifted on any crap Trump has pulled so far.
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Because they still think he's going to push through a business friendly tax plan and other policies that pad their profits. If he doesn't make progress on that soon, the market will reel.
 
R

RinsFury

Member
Maxim726X said:
Uhh... What?

Tell me- In what scenario does America *not* survive a 'nuclear war' with a country that can't even launch ICBMs without utter failure?
Click to expand...


It's not North Korea alone, it's the escalation of force if Russia and China get involved. Full scale nuclear war is a real possibility.
 
D

djkimothy

Member
Megalosaro said:
In all honesty, it is in the world's best interest to rally against the US at this point.

We are the bad guys now. We should be slapped worth all sorts of embargoes and trade restrictions
Click to expand...

I still think the relationship between canada and the us is salvageable. Two billion dollars a day in economic activity is not something to dismiss on a whim.
 
H

Heshinsi

"playing" dumb? unpossible
djkimothy said:
There would still be provisions in Nafta not covered in ten FTA. Same with TPP being an updated version of Nafta. Economic disruption will still be felt.

does the FTA cover bidding for government contracts? How about the service sector. Can our banks do business in the US?
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Does him leaving NAFTA get us (Canada) out of the bullshit pro-corporation laws that NAFT had, like the ability to sue us in regards to our own laws? Can we start selling oil at non discounted prices to them?
 
K

kirblar

Member
Stumpokapow said:
So, in general "incomplete contracting" is one of the biggest sources of tension and conflict in the world. What this means is that a lot of negative situations arise because we need to trust other people, but we can't trust them.

Suppose you're pointing a gun at someone and they're pointing a gun at you. Neither of you wants to die or kill. So you ask them to lower their gun and you'll lower yours. But why would they lower their gun, because if they do, they'll shoot you. The mechanism you need to solve this is a way to force you both to stick to the deal. That's a contract.

Treaties are contracts. Ideally every country would set policy that benefits them maximally and doesn't care about anyone else. But then no one would ever agree to do anything. So treaties are about give-and-take. And the reason you can believe that treaties will work is that, presumably, a) politicians face a major domestic cost for breaking treaties; b) third-party international monitors like the WTO can adjudicate disputes.

Okay, suppose NAFTA is bad, and you want to withdraw. The problem is now why would any country, ever, trust you on a treaty again? Knowing that you'll just break it when you feel like it's not going your way. The treaty is no longer a contract. And we're back to people pointing guns.

The problem with "the Art of the Deal" is that it's just "the Secret". "If you want something, you'll get it". Yeah, except that's not how being an adult works.
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The problem with Trump is that he doesn't make money by making good deals, he makes money by making deals and then failing to live up to his side of the bargain.
 
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