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Whitney Houston, Celine Dion, Mariah Carey...Beyonce?

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People need to stop paying my posts dust. Listen to these:

1+1 (Backstage)
Listen (Live)

Not paying dust lol.

... Aya, wait. Time out.

Mariah is a soprano. So is Jennifer Hudson. They're different kinds of soprano, but they're still in the same overall category. Beyoncé is a mezzo-soprano, but this makes little difference in terms of her vocal range in popular music, which almost entirely overlaps with the range that Mariah or JHud do most of their singing in. Beyoncé actually has a larger connected range than either Mariah or Jennifer Hudson, even if Mariah's range with whistle register (which is a disconnected register) is larger. I don't know where you've gotten this idea that Beyoncé needs to make up for her lack of range by doing other things or that she can't be compared; she has a solid three and a half octaves of connected range.


I thought Mariah considered herself and Alto versus a Soprano? I've never actually heard herself say she was a Soprano. But then again, sometimes people say she can be a toss up between the two.

Also I was always under the impression that Jhud was an Alto as well.

About the Beyoncé comment, I'm saying that Beyoncé doesn't and very rarely belts out huge notes in alot of her songs in which she ops for more technique in these situations. Which I feel is why when we talk about her not having a power ballad such as I will Always love you and My heart will go on doesn't define her as a singer and or vocalist, makes no sense. The only ballads I know that are recognizable are Halo and Listen.
 

DOWN

Banned
I don't think Rihanna success = Beyoncé failure

3.6 million a flop. Please.

beyonce-4.gif
 

twobear

sputum-flecked apoplexy
Next level spin going on. 3.6 million albums sold is somehow a bad look
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Beyoncé could sell 7.5 billion copies of her next album and Roy would still say that with the hype behind it that's a disappointment and Beyoncé should kill herself in shame.
 
Beyoncé is bigger than everyone but just because she has a lot of media manufactured hype.

She is also super local to the US. The quintessential popstar of our generation isn't her, but Katy Perry or Rihanna. I'm hopeful history will prove this point correct.
 
I just stepped in to see what was going on here, and between that last Whitney gif, and the Marlo reference, seems like everything is going swell in here.
 

royalan

Member
Next level spin going on. 3.6 million albums sold is somehow a bad look
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You have to compare efforts.

BEYONCE only selling 3.6 million would be like a Call of Duty game coming out and only selling that much.

Bey is supposed to be a giant, but that fact is only reflected in the delusion of her stans.
 

Mumei

Member
I thought Mariah considered herself and Alto versus a Soprano? I've never actually heard herself say she was a Soprano. But then again, sometimes people say she can be a toss up between the two.

Mariah does call herself an alto, but it's not a good description of her vocal type. For one, "alto" is a choral music designation; it's not an operatic vocal category. Mariah is most assuredly not a contralto, which sounds like this. Mariah has a light, girlish voice (especially when singing in her head voice, as in that example), with a high extension, a lot of ease at the top of her range. The only possible argument for her not being a soprano is that she has an extensive lower register, but even though she has a very extensive lower register it has very little body to it until you get to the upper half of the third octave. She can't go this low and have it audible without a mic and over the background noise, even from that distance. She just doesn't have the weight in her lower register.

And no, JHud is basically a badly trained dramatic soprano. She's what Patti Labelle would be if Patti Labelle actually screamed like her clueless critics say she does.

About the Beyoncé comment, I'm saying that Beyoncé doesn't and very rarely belts out huge notes in alot of her songs in which she ops for more technique in these situations. Which I feel is why when we talk about her not having a power ballad such as I will Always love you and My heart will go on doesn't define her as a singer and or vocalist, makes no sense. The only ballads I know that are recognizable are Halo and Listen.

That's just it. Her songs are full of those big notes. You couldn't see comparison videos like this if that weren't the case. In trying to defend her, you're actually underselling her. She doesn't have a ballad equivalent to those, no, but that doesn't mean you need to concede the other point.

I disagree, what she was doing is way more impressive to me. Both notes sounded like vocal notes, unlike your example where it is creating a strange nasal/whistling harmonic note on top of a single vocal note. Her technique sounds genuinely like two normal vocal notes (albeit a bit breathy) at the same time. And she was creating chords in tune with the band, unlike your example which is unaccompanied and therefore has more flexibility in terms of being able to fish around for a tone where the harmonics work best.

Maybe you'd be more impressed by it live? It's a very impressive form of vocalism, but it feels like a separate skill set from "normal" singing. I guess I'll just have to agree to disagree. My vocal preferences tends to run towards vocal technique that focuses on resonance and projection, and so things like that just feel a bit tepid to me, even if it is impressive that she's doing it in a musically coherent way.
 

Laughing Banana

Weeping Pickle
Surprised so many people dissing Celine in here.

I mean, she has sold more albums than Whitney Houston, and listed as one of the best selling music artists of all time. You don't get that kind of achievement without really serious talent backing up your trade.
 
Surprised so many people dissing Celine in here.

I mean, she has sold more albums than Whitney Houston, and listed as one of the best selling music artists of all time. You don't get that kind of achievement without really serious talent backing up your trade.

Indeed.

If only PopGAF would also give due respect to ABBA and Rihanna's talent.



--

I still think the impact of Bey's eponymous album is being downplayed. A decade from now writers will still be talking about "pulling a Beyoncé" and everyone will still know precisely what that means.
 

royalan

Member
Indeed.

If only PopGAF would also give due respect to ABBA and Rihanna's talent.



--

I still think the impact of Bey's eponymous album is being downplayed. A decade from now writers will still be talking about "pulling a Beyoncé" and everyone will still know precisely what that means.

"Pulling a Beyonce" was usurped by "Pulling a U2"
 

mantidor

Member
Indeed.

If only PopGAF would also give due respect to ABBA and Rihanna's talent.

wat

I do not know about Rihanna but ABBA is another level, what the hell are you people talking about? ABBA is g.o.a.t, plain and simple. Your "faves" would never, EVER, touch them.
 

Cheska

Member
LOL at people saying Celine isn't relevant or deserving of being on this list.

Beyoncé may have some great vocals, but I don't believe she has the talent and diversity that those leading ladies do. Come back when you have more than a handful of #1 hits.
 

Laughing Banana

Weeping Pickle
Why people diss Celine though.

Is it........ because she's Canadian? :p :p :p :p

Considering what she has achieved, she's most definitely entitled to be in any list of "greatest singers/music artists of all time"
 

Esch

Banned
roy lost.

Carters stay fucking him up on the inside. You know it burns him deep down in his soul, the sole fact that Beyonce runs this shit.

Beyonce won.

She won.
 
I can't believe this is being discussed.

Whitney, Mariah, Celine are God Tier Singers. I don't know what the fuck Beyoncé is but she ain't near the mountain top.
 

Touchdown

Banned
Mau ®;131104298 said:
Hey guys,

If you're enjoying this thread then make sure to participate in POPGAF's diva tourney. We're currently at Round 1, Battle 7: Beyoncé vs. Mariah Carey!



Send your vote to Soulscribe for your fave diva!

Also make sure to stop by POPGAF OT-X and say hello!

Great idea Mau! I'm sure you all will make the right choice.

iwiiuo6XzIBKK.gif
 

Kozak

Banned
She is known here for being successful in UK and US. Didn't know about Japan, thanks. The point still stands, I Kissed a Girl, Hotn Cold, Poker Face etc. were way bigger. But she is on her starting point, everything could happen.

If that point still stands, can I see the sources behind it?
 

norinrad

Member
2012, but close enough.

iUNjVB7Tf8sGk.gif

I had no idea who she was until this thread. A mental midget just screaming around. Why do some of you guys promote this shit? Unless you find her attractive, her music is no where close to even that other screaming idiot. Who mentioned a few weeks ago she wanted to die already. Forgot her name, but it was all over the news. Talentless hacks.

Ariane can sell 60 billion albums in Japan and she would still be shit. come back again in 20 years and lets see if she hasn't been completely forgotten.

She's not even anywhere close as Tiffany (She's from the 80s)
 

Kozak

Banned
I had no idea who she was until this thread. A mental midget just screaming around. Why do some of you guys promote this shit? Unless you find her attractive, her music is no where close to even that other screaming idiot. Who mentioned a few weeks ago she wanted to die already. Forgot her name, but it was all over the news. Talentless hacks.

Ariane can sell 60 billion albums in Japan and she would still be shit. come back again in 20 years and lets see if she hasn't been completely forgotten.

She's not even anywhere close as Tiffany (She's from the 80s)

Wasn't that Ariana commenting she hopes her fans die already?

I too hope Ariana's fame goes down the toilet. Absolute terrible person it seems. JBv2.0
 

Into

Member
People will remember Whitney, because her biggest hits are bigger than most of the hits of the other 3 women. In 10-20 years at retro parties i dont see Beyonce hits being played by anyone. She is not iconic in that sense, her most iconic feature if one can call it that, is her appearrance. I dont see Nasty Girl being played in 2029. But Whitney's hits? Absolutely.

Beyonce fells a lot like John Cena, a forced "icon" because we had these before, and now we need new ones.

In terms of image and appearance, none of them have anything on early Mariah, she had a angelic appearance to her that is unrivaled.
 
I had no idea who she was until this thread. A mental midget just screaming around. Why do some of you guys promote this shit? Unless you find her attractive, her music is no where close to even that other screaming idiot. Who mentioned a few weeks ago she wanted to die already. Forgot her name, but it was all over the news. Talentless hacks.

Ariane can sell 60 billion albums in Japan and she would still be shit. come back again in 20 years and lets see if she hasn't been completely forgotten.

She's not even anywhere close as Tiffany (She's from the 80s)

Thank you.

I've heard a few of Arianna's songs on the radio but I didn't have a face/name to go along with them until this thread.

Nothing about her so far screams longevity or true talent. For now she's just the flavor of the month. (I mean that figuratively, if we're talking about legendary performers/artist, then 1-3 years of popularity is still just the "flavor of the month".

As I mentioned before, the majority of Arianna's hits seam to be riding the coat-tails of other very popular artist/producers. I totally understand if people here like her look, but mentioning her in this thread is ridiculous. She's not even close to a household name and appealing to anything beyond the early 20s/teen crowd. Mariah and Whitney actually appealed to grownups, not just horny male teenagers.

Beyonce is a tricky one. She's definitely an icon, but not sure she's a "Diva" on the level of Mariah and Whitney since she hasn't had a lot of hit singles crossing over to a lot of audiences. Also she relies very heavily on her sexuality moreso than her vocals/music. I probably would put Beyonce in the category of Madonna. Some excellent/catchy songs here and there, and able to stay relevant over a long period of time, sometimes because of the music and sometimes because of the spectacle. Both Mariah and Whitney were very sexy women but not until later in Mariah's career, neither women really relied solely on their sex appeal to release hit songs. Their vocals and music were that good, where they didn't have to act like strippers to get attention.

Alicia Keys doesn't have the same track record as Mariah or Whitney, but she does possess that same kind of raw talent that will allow her to stay relevant even when her beauty fades because she doesn't heavily rely on it. I definitely could see Alicia Keys releasing a song 10-15 years from now and it could still be at least a moderate hit.
 
As I mentioned before, the majority of Arianna's hits seam to be riding the coat-tails of other very popular artist/producers. I totally understand if people here like her look, but mentioning her in this thread is ridiculous. She's not even close to a household name and appealing to anything beyond the early 20s/teen crowd. Mariah and Whitney actually appealed to grownups, not just horny male teenagers.

The majority? No, literally all of her hits have featured artists on them.

the way FEATURING mac miller

right there FEATURING big sean

problem FEATURING iggy azalea

break free FEATURING zedd

bang bang FEATURING jessie j and nicki minaj

Pathetic!
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DOWN

Banned
Wasn't that Ariana commenting she hopes her fans die already?

I too hope Ariana's fame goes down the toilet. Absolute terrible person it seems. JBv2.0
No it was the ever cheerful Lana Del Ray.

It was Ariana and it was only alleged. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/17/ariana-grande-fans-die_n_5836994.html

But it isn't the only allegation of diva behavior on her.

Nah, Lana said she wished she were dead already, and this was after a series of grim questions asking about it. She felt the story misrepresented her and didn't convey the tone or direction the writer brought it in. Lana hasn't been publicly rude to fans in any large controversy like that.
 

Majmun

Member
The difference between Beyoncé and the rest is consitency. She's been here since 1998 and has been delivering quality non-stop.
Her vocals are still amazing and she's become an even better performer.

The other three singers somehow got rusty over time. Beyoncé did not. She's only getting better.

When she's just as old as those other three singers, she will surpass everything and everyone.
 
this is a very important debate and I'm glad it was brought to my attention. to be honest around the dogma shouts the island. The forward attribute treks next to the deed. Beyonce measures Queen on top of the clock. Our stiff overloads a trivial spur. Queen nests across Beyonce. The behind appraisal flips next to the air.
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