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[Mumei]

You're baffled that a country closed off for much of modern history and without a global colonial reach might not be conceived of in terms of ethnicity and nationality the same way that some Western countries are? France didn't become ~postracial~ overnight.

No, I'm not baffled by that. I don't know if I should feel miffed that you chose the most easily comprehensible possible thing for me to be baffled by!

Look at the post I was responding to, and the post that he was responding to and maybe it'll make more sense:

Right, and this dude is trying to start a dialogue on changing the exclusionary thinking that dominates some of the most influential cultures and economies on Earth (China and Japan). And instead of trying to encourage this inclusivity, even Americans who personally understand the benefit or integration and who understand the pain of racist exclusionism just handwave this issue away as "Asians will always be Asian, dumb weaboo." So what hope do they have?

Exactly. Surprised and a bit disappointed at the views expressed in this thread.

The west is not the only group of countries that can benefit from further immigration.

Maybe its just cause of the extents the author goes to which make it seem a bit weaboo ish (like dressing in classical chinese clothing)

That's what I'm baffled by; that people don't seem to completely misunderstanding the argument that he's making, which is that China needs to make the kind of changes mdubs talked about in his post:

I say as a Chinese person we need to get away from this. Especially if we want a country like China to open up to immigration. What does it say if migrants, wherever they are from, are continually told that they or their children can never be "Chinese"? We need to disentangle the nation-state from notions of ethnicity to facilitate this.

And the litmus test for the success of that project would be the perception of immigrants like the author that they are "viewed as a Chinese not just in my own mind but in the minds of my fellow Chinese."

And as I pointed out in my post, because of China's demographic issues (in the next 30 years, they are going from ~1.4 billion with ~100 million old people to 1.3 billion with 329 million old people, with only 1.6 workers per retiree in a country, followed by a demographic collapse in which their population drops by ~400 million to just around 1 billion.), they are going to need to attract immigrants. How are they going to do that?

 

[Goofalo]

So a Canadian should use US history to determine if they feel like a citizen of another country? SMH at Americans.

Though to be fair I also get a slightly creepy vibe from article.

Canadian, American, Flemish. They all look...you know the rest.

My tongue is firmly in the cheek on this , btw.

 

[Mr. Mister]

Canadian, American, Flemish. They all look...you know the rest.

Ugh bro. That's a bad look.

Saw edit. I get ya now

 

[KillLaCam]

Sure, in whatever year is the equivalent of 1952 in my example.

Actually it came in three waves, voting rights were granted in 1943, 1946 and 1952, by nationality.

Ah.. I just realized what you were referencing. Yeah.. we don't learn enough about this in school. It's pretty terrible

 

[Goofalo]

Ugh bro take the L. That's a bad look.

Nope. He's not allowed to bring his white privilege to the struggle of being seen as a citizen.

Yeah. Sorry about that.

 

[numble]

Here's the difference, America, was founded on the concept that despite your origins, you can be an American.

The People's Republic of China was founded more directly on an inter-racial concept than the US was. The various proclamations and the PRC's 1954 Constitution all discuss such concepts, and the government has actively pushed such concepts despite the very homogeneous population.

http://e-chaupak.net/database/chicon/1954/1954bilingual.htm

All the nationalities in our country have been united in one great family of free and equal nationalities. The unity of our country's nationalities will continue to gain in strength on the basis of the further development of the fraternal bonds and mutual aid among them, and on the basis of opposition to imperialism, opposition to public enemies within their own ranks, and opposition to both big-nation chauvinism and local nationalism. In the course of economic construction and cultural development, the state will concern itself with the needs of the different nationalities, and, in the matter of socialist transformation, pay full attention to the special characteristics in the development of each nationality.

...

Article 3 The People's Republic of China is a unitary multinational state.
　　All the nationalities are equal. Discrimination against or oppression of any nationality, and acts which undermine the unity of the nationalities, are prohibited.
　　All the nationalities have the freedom to use and develop their own spoken and written languages, and to preserve or reform their own customs and ways.
　　Regional autonomy applies in areas where a minority nationality live in a compact community. All the national autonomous areas are inseparable parts of the People's Republic of China.

 

[wandering]

No, I'm not baffled by that. I don't know if I should feel miffed that you chose the most easily comprehensible possible thing for me to be baffled by!

Look at the post I was responding to, and the post that he was responding to and maybe it'll make more sense:



That's what I'm baffled by; that people don't seem to completely misunderstanding the argument that he's making, which is that China needs to make the kind of changes mdubs talked about in his post:



And the litmus test for the success of that project would be the perception of immigrants like the author that they are "viewed as a Chinese not just in my own mind but in the minds of my fellow Chinese."

And as I pointed out in my post, because of China's demographic issues (in the next 30 years, they are going from ~1.4 billion with ~100 million old people to 1.3 billion with 329 million old people, with only 1.6 workers per retiree in a country, followed by a demographic collapse in which their population drops by ~400 million to just around 1 billion.), they are going to need to attract immigrants. How are they going to do that?

People are pointing out that his argument is flawed from the outset when he compares being Canadian in China to being an American-born Chinese person.

This, of course, ignoring the fact that for many Asian Americans we're never truly accepted as real Americans anyway.

 

[mujun]

I'm curious to see how my children get treated as half Japanese, half Australians growing up in Japan.

I'm also worried for them and worried that I won't do a good enough job as a father to help them deal with it.

 

[Goofalo]

The People's Republic of China was founded more directly on an inter-racial concept than the US was. The various proclamations and the PRC's 1954 Constitution all discuss such concepts, and the government has actively pushed such concepts despite the very homogeneous population.

http://e-chaupak.net/database/chicon/1954/1954bilingual.htm

I guess the Uighurs and the Tibetans are just being silly then.

 

[Mumei]

People are pointing out that his argument is flawed from the outset when he compares being Canadian in China to being an American-born Chinese person.

This, of course, ignoring the fact that for many Asian Americans we're never truly accepted as real Americans anyway.

There are many people making many different arguments. I had hoped that I'd established that I was not confused by your perspective, but if I hadn't: I'm not.

 

[vern]

In Mexicos case, they're definitely more open to the idea of immigrants than China. Watching the ADVChina video posted earlier, it seems that foreigners are restricted heavily in what they can do, no matter how much they live there or adopt to the culture.

So it's not a matter of seeing a Canadian as Chinese-It's that not even China will see them as Chinese.

I don't particularly care for ADVChina and I'm at work so can't really watch the video even if I wanted to, but what do they say we are restricted on here? I can do pretty much anything I want in China as long as I'm not drawing too much attention to myself, in fact being a laowai often gets you a free pass to do whatever you want.

 

[numble]

I guess the Uighurs and the Tibetans are just being silly then.

Based on your logic, they are being silly because you think China can treat non-Han people as inferior (because China was founded on a logic that only Han can be Chinese), and your logic also says that minorities in the US are being silly because the US already had equality as a founding concept.

 

[Mr. Mister]

I guess the Uighurs and the Tibetans are just being silly then.

Wait. Is it about how China views race / nationality or how you (American I assume) view it? That's the thing when it broadens out to other countries. It gets way different and the fact that you have now changed from Americas history to Chinese history shows that.

 

[Sakura]

I kind of understand where he is coming from, but as an expat I think it is normal to not be viewed 100% as 'Chinese'.
The problem I have is when kids who are born and raised in a country, never lived any where else, can't speak anything other than the language of the country etc get treated like foreigners. These people don't have any where else to call home, and yet they are still treated like strangers in the one home they know.
For example I live in Japan and I constantly get asked questions about where I'm from, how long I've been here, etc. I was at work stocking a shelf near the photocopier, and a customer who needed help with it, just looked at me, ignored me, and decided to go to the other end of the store where there was a Japanese person at the register to ask them for help. I wasn't born here or anything so I don't care that much, but I can only imagine how it would feel for someone who was born here to go through that shit every day.

 

[KillLaCam]

I don't particularly care for ADVChina and I'm at work so can't really watch the video even if I wanted to, but what do they say we are restricted on here? I can do pretty much anything I want in China as long as I'm not drawing too much attention to myself, in fact being a laowai often gets you a free pass to do whatever you want.

Yeah they seem to have way too many negatives to post videos about. I'm not even sure why they stay in China if it's this bad to them. ADVChina is a joke

 

[Goofalo]

I really need to indicate when I'm being sarcastic,

 

[thetrin]

Chinese is a nationality, and you can apply for that nationality, so yes, anybody that lives there can indeed be Chinese.

But he could live there the rest of his life and he'll always be an other.

It's the same as living in Japan. It's hard to explain without living here, but it can be very grating.

I'm curious to see how my children get treated as half Japanese, half Australians growing up in Japan.

I'm also worried for them and worried that I won't do a good enough job as a father to help them deal with it.

It'll all depend on how half they look. My buddy's kids look Japanese, are very cute, and very sociable. They'll probably never face much bullying.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

I don't particularly care for ADVChina and I'm at work so can't really watch the video even if I wanted to, but what do they say we are restricted on here? I can do pretty much anything I want in China as long as I'm not drawing too much attention to myself, in fact being a laowai often gets you a free pass to do whatever you want.

owning property
opening a credit card
even being able to drive with just a visa(whereas if you have a travelers visa in the US you can drive)

 

[wandering]

There are many people making many different arguments. I had hoped that I'd established that I was not confused by your perspective, but if I hadn't: I'm not.

You didn't really establish who you were talking about beyond "people in this thread."

Yeah they seem to have way too many negatives to post videos about. I'm not even sure why they stay in China if it's this bad to them. ADVChina is a joke

The funny thing about so many expat vloggers and bloggers like ADVChina is that they talk about being ostracized and marginalized in China and then turn around and rant against SJWs and "PC gone mad" in the West.

 

[mujun]

Yeah they seem to have way too many negatives to post videos about. I'm not even sure why they stay in China if it's this bad to them. ADVChina is a joke

Human nature? People like to hear about drama and talk about negative stuff far more than positive stuff?

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Human nature? People like to hear about drama and talk about negative stuff far more than positive stuff?

That and ADVChina seems to be mostly critical of things in that video. They don't come off like they completely hate China, but that they just have criticisms as foreigners.(Just coming off from that one video.)

 

[KillLaCam]

Human nature? People like to hear about drama and talk about negative stuff far more than positive stuff?

Maybe. But theyre one of the only channels like this where I see them being negative so often. Like the whole point of being an expat is moving to somewhere you like. It's not like we're migrant workers or something.

 

[vern]

owning property
opening a credit card
even being able to drive with just a visa(whereas if you have a travelers visa in the US you can drive)

I know foreigners with a credit card.

I wouldn't want random travelers here to attempt to drive. It's already crazy enough, throw in a bunch of people that can't read or speak the language and don't know the way traffic here works... seems like it's not a very good idea. It's not difficult to get a driver's license anyway. All you need to do is pass a written test that they offer in English. I don't see how that's a restriction, just a minor inconvenience. I have a Chinese driver's license.

Property... I don't pay attention because I have no interest in buying anything here, I know there are lots of rules with regards to buying property in China though, not just for laowai.

 

[numble]

owning property
opening a credit card
even being able to drive with just a visa(whereas if you have a travelers visa in the US you can drive)

If you work in the major cities, you can purchase property more easily than Chinese non-locals. For example, a foreigner working in Beijing can purchase a property as long as they have a working visa, but a Chinese person from Shanghai will need to wait something like 5 years and show evidence they have worked in Beijing for that whole time before they can buy property in Beijing.

If it is a rural area, a foreigner can buy property outright.

You can get a credit card, but you will need to show proof of income, etc. It is very difficult for a foreigner to get a credit card in the US.

Not all states in the US allow you to drive with just a visa. Many states will not allow you to drive with a Chinese driver license. If you already have a foreign driver license, you can get a Chinese driver license by passing a written English test.

 

[mujun]

That and ADVChina seems to be mostly critical of things in that video. They don't come off like they completely hate China, but that they just have criticisms as foreigners.(Just coming off from that one video.)

It's a bit of a catch 22 situation in my experience. Having a bar for comparison (having lived for a long time in two difference countries) leads to a lot of comparing and often being critical. Doesn't mean that a person hates something. I think it's impossible to balance criticism (even constructive criticism) with praise.

 

[MHWilliams]

So I have a question. If we're divorcing ourselves from some of the ideas of nationality and race for the argument, what is the "Chinese" ideal that the author believes he hews closer to than most people of Chinese nationality? Where does that come from?

He is a Canadian expat who identifies heavily with Chinese culture. What are the roots of the specific culture he believes that he's sticking to, especially in the context of this section of the article?

It certainly isn't any lack of commitment on my part to Chinese culture. I've been working on Confucian philosophy for many years, and it inspires the way I lead my life. I'm told over and over that my commitment to Chinese culture is more ”Chinese" than that of many Chinese people. At conferences in China, I often find myself the only person wearing Chinese-style clothing.

I understand some arguments folks are posing, talking about naturalization and paths to citizenship - a person who has pursue a path to American citizenship in the United States should be seen as American - but I feel we're getting caught up, especially in the case of this author, in something else.

 

[Widdle Puppy]

He is a Canadian expat who identifies heavily with Chinese culture. What are the roots of the specific culture he believes that he's sticking to, especially in the context of this section of the article?

He's funneling Chinese ethnic groups through his western idea of what it means to belong to a nation. That is: belonging to a secular group united by something which lies outside one's ethnic group. That's the basis for him wanting to belong; thing is this doesn't exist in China.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

It's a bit of a catch 22 situation in my experience. Having a bar for comparison (having lived for a long time in two difference countries) leads to a lot of comparing and often being critical. Doesn't mean that a person hates something. I think it's impossible to balance criticism (even constructive criticism) with praise.

Right. Like, if I were to move to Germany, despite me thinking it's a cool liberal place, I'm sure I'd find things I hate fast enough. I hate things about California despite being raised here, for instance.

 

[Goofalo]

So I have a question. If we're divorcing ourselves from some of the ideas of nationality and race for the argument, what is the "Chinese" ideal that the author believes he hews closer to than most people of Chinese nationality? Where does that come from?

He is a Canadian expat who identifies heavily with Chinese culture. What are the roots of the specific culture he believes that he's sticking to, especially in the context of this section of the article?



I understand some arguments folks are posing, talking about naturalization and paths to citizenship - a person who has pursue a path to American citizenship in the United States should be seen as American - but I feel we're getting caught up, especially in the case of this author, in something else.

In a completely non-sarcastic way. That statement feels like when some non-Korean kid, having just come back from his year or however many from teaching English in Korea, that he's more Korean than I am.

I know the situation is more nuanced than that. But, that's my gut reaction. Internally, it feels like someone is trying to rip my identity from me. And it just fills my head and heart with such just unpleasant violent angry thoughts. But, I can say that my reaction is also heavily influenced by me being raised in the US, and all the good and bad that come with that.

But, whatever, he can feel however he wants. I just have so much side eye for him.

 

[mujun]

Right. Like, if I were to move to Germany, despite me thinking it's a cool liberal place, I'm sure I'd find things I hate fast enough. I hate things about California despite being raised here, for instance.

Yep, human nature. Just gotta keep it in check. Nobody wants to hang around with a negative sour-ass motherfucker

In a completely non-sarcastic way. That statement feels like when some non-Korean kid, having just come back from his year or however many from teaching English in Korea, that he's more Korean than I am.

I know the situation is more nuanced than that. But, that's my gut reaction. Internally, it feels like someone is trying to rip my identity from me. And it just fills my head and heart with such just unpleasant violent angry thoughts. But, I can say that my reaction is also heavily influenced by me being raised in the US, and all the good and bad that come with that.

Sure. Someone like that is an idiot. What if they'd lived there for 20 years, though? How would you feel if someone said you weren't Korean enough because you didn't eat enough traditional Korean food, didn't speak Korean well enough in their eyes or didn't do enough traditional Korean hobbies.

 

[numble]

So I have a question. If we're divorcing ourselves from some of the ideas of nationality and race for the argument, what is the "Chinese" ideal that the author believes he hews closer to than most people of Chinese nationality? Where does that come from?

He is a Canadian expat who identifies heavily with Chinese culture. What are the roots of the specific culture he believes that he's sticking to, especially in the context of this section of the article?



I understand some arguments folks are posing, talking about naturalization and paths to citizenship - a person who has pursue a path to American citizenship in the United States should be seen as American - but I feel we're getting caught up, especially in the case of this author, in something else.

Did you read the whole article and not just the excerpts? The author's arguments are tied with naturalization and citizenship:

There are also pragmatic grounds for such a shift. Yan Xuetong, a leading theorist of international relations at Tsinghua University, argues that China should employ more foreigners as public officials and put them on the road to citizenship. Once China passes a necessary threshold of hard power, he says, China should compete for human talent rather than for economic or military superiority.

A meritocratic immigration policy open to all, regardless of ethnic or racial background, would also serve China’s economic interests. The now-discarded one-child policy has created a demographic bulge, with the elderly constituting an ever-growing proportion of the population. The country would greatly benefit from the contributions of talented young migrants from around the world.

 

[norinrad]

The man is Chinese. He's lived there long enough.

 

[Mumei]

You didn't really establish who you were talking about beyond "people in this thread."

Oh, that was intentional. I was attempting to avoid getting sucked into litigating a time-consuming, pointless argument by avoiding calling out people directly, because I find that unpleasant, and instead wanted to contribute more positively by responding to a point another person had made, particularly talking more concretely about how China would benefit from immigration (and even need to do so). I did not suspect that my not specifically calling people out would lead to someone who I wasn't thinking of taking me to task for misunderstandings I didn't have.

... You can see how that error in judgment has worked out for me. Anyway, I'm going to bed now. Night~

 

[Qvoth]

seems like this guy's a pretty big on confucianism/taoism, i've never seen them myself but i think they use traditional chinese clothings often

as an ethnically chinese man myself, this guy literally will never be accepted as a chinese, that's just now it is

 

[Sage00]

This is some typical white imperialist globalist bullshit. The nerve of this guy and people in this thread thinking he can take their identity just because he likes it. He may have a passport, he may speak better Chinese than most people, and he can even die his skin the right colour. He'll never be Chinese.

Just because America or Canada does it doesn't mean you can go to another country and apply your own rule there. The Chinese people will decide, and he knows what their answer is.

 

[vern]

This is some typical white imperialist globalist bullshit. The nerve of this guy and people in this thread thinking he can take their identity just because he likes it. It's not yours, you'll never be Chinese.

Just because America or Canada does it doesn't mean you can go to another country and reverse apply your own rule there. The Chinese people decide, and they've spoken very definitively.

Can Chinese can be American?


oh you edited...

 

[wandering]

Oh, that was intentional. I was attempting to avoid getting sucked into litigating a time-consuming, pointless argument by avoiding calling out people directly, because I find that unpleasant, and instead wanted to contribute more positively by responding to a point another person had made, particularly talking more concretely about how China would benefit from immigration (and even need to do so). I did not suspect that my not specifically calling people out would lead to someone who I wasn't thinking of taking me to task for misunderstandings I didn't have.

... You can see how that error in judgment has worked out for me. Anyway, I'm going to bed now. Night~

Maybe we could've had that conversation but I see that you've chosen to be condescending instead, so okay.

 

[Sage00]

Can Chinese can be American?


oh you edited...

Yeah, I think so if they want. Generally speaking America is quite an amalgamating country.

 

[MHWilliams]

He's funneling Chinese ethnic groups through his western idea of what it means to belong to a nation. That is: belonging to a secular group united by something which lies outside one's ethnic group. That's the basis for him wanting to belong; thing is this doesn't exist in China.

This was my understanding, hence my question and other poster's dismissals of most of the author's arguments.

Did you read the whole article and not just the excerpts? The author's arguments are tied with naturalization and citizenship:

I read that, but it's also two different thoughts. More open immigration and integration of immigrants into Chinese government doesn't have anything to do with being culturally "Chinese". You can have A without B, or B without A.

Note, I use "Chinese" in quotes, because again, I'm trying to figure out where his specific idea of what Chinese culture is comes from. It's clear he has a thrust from the excerpts I chose there.

 

[Goofalo]

Sure. Someone like that is an idiot. What if they'd lived there for 20 years, though? How would you feel if someone said you weren't Korean enough because you didn't eat enough traditional Korean food, didn't speak Korean well enough in their eyes or didn't do enough traditional Korean hobbies.

I mean, I have stomach cancer. Can't get more Korean than that.

But, it still wouldn't go over well even with 20 years. And that is definitely a result of how Koreans view being Korean. I think even amongst native Koreans, they would say my Korean speaking ability is poor compared to 20 year guy, and even if it wasn't, my hybrid Jeolla/American accent is a doozy, but the lingering ethnic pride that is propagandized/ingrained in Korea I would still be seen as "more Korean." I was also born there, so there's that.

 

[mujun]

I mean, I have stomach cancer. Can't get more Korean than that.

But, it still wouldn't go over well even with 20 years. And that is definitely a result of how Koreans view being Korean. I think even amongst native Koreans, they would say my Korean speaking ability is poor compared to 20 year guy, and even if it wasn't, my hybrid Jeolla/American accent is a doozy, but the lingering ethnic pride that is propagandized/ingrained in Korea I would still be seen as "more Korean." I was also born there, so there's that.

How prevalent is plastic surgery in Korea?

Seems sort of ironic to me.

 

[numble]

This was my understanding, hence my question and other poster's dismissals of most of the author's arguments.

I read that, but it's also two different thoughts. More open immigration and integration of immigrants into Chinese government doesn't have anything to do with being culturally "Chinese". You can have A without B, or B without A.

Note, I use "Chinese" in quotes, because again, I'm trying to figure out where his specific idea of what Chinese culture is comes from. It's clear he has a thrust from the excerpts I chose there.

The thrust of his excerpt was that current conceptions are based on race, not culture.

His main argument is that there should not be a race-based conception of being Chinese. Open immigration and foreign-born citizens taking part of government are what he argues can result when there is a less race-based conception for being Chinese.

 

[Izuna]

How prevalent is plastic surgery in Korea?

Seems sort of ironic to me.

ugh

 

[Mr. Mister]

This is some typical white imperialist globalist bullshit. The nerve of this guy and people in this thread thinking he can take their identity just because he likes it. He may have a passport, he may speak better Chinese than most people, and he can even die his skin the right colour. He'll never be Chinese.

Just because America or Canada does it doesn't mean you can go to another country and apply your own rule there. The Chinese people will decide, and he knows what their answer is.

Please tell this to my Korean family. Tell them to fuck off that they dare think they are American. Do you not see your western perspective?

 

[KillLaCam]

How prevalent is plastic surgery in Korea?

Seems sort of ironic to me.

Lol

 

[Goofalo]

How prevalent is plastic surgery in Korea?

Seems sort of ironic to me.

Way too prevalent. And this is also a by product of my immigrant upbringing and having been raised with a 1960's/1970's Korean morality, as opposed to an evolving Korean culture, I see more authentic Korean beauty in 2nd generation Korean-Americans that I do in Korea. And when I express this in Korea, I'm seen as old fashioned. I mean as old fashioned as a 6' tall middle aged Korean male with a detached haircut and visible tattoos can be seen.

 

[FantasticMrFoxdie]

 

[MHWilliams]

The thrust of his excerpt was that current conceptions are based on race, not culture.

His main argument is that there should not be a race-based conception of being Chinese. Open immigration and foreign-born citizens taking part of government are what he argues can result when there is a less race-based conception for being Chinese.

I mean, argument A - there should not be a race-based conception of being Chinese - is sort of just an "okay" kind of statement. It is akin to "People should not see race." On the surface, a fine statement, but not particularly actionable. There are various concepts of "Chinese" and many of those are tied to specific races who were borne of the region we know as China. That covers a broad swath of different types of people.

Argument B - Open immigration and foreign-born citizens taking part of government is good - is a more actionable statement. Something can be done. It can be measured and studied. The people of China can legislate in that direction.

One is an argument against people. The other against government.

But again, I note you ignore the rest of my question. What is his conception of "Chinese" that he feels he strikes to more than some of those borne in China? Because if broad strokes, that concept is wholly based in stereotypes and ideas rooted in Han Chinese, then he is at the same time falling prey to the problems he's railing against in Argument A. That there is a specific perception of "Chinese" to lean towards and stick to.

See the problem?

To come at it from the opposite side, being American isn't a function of a specific culture. A foreign native who immigrates to the United States and choose to stick to Black, Italian, or Irish American culture isn't more American. Becoming American is a process naturalization and citizenship. If you are Korean, and you move to America and live here and going through that process, you are American, regardless of how many Korean cultural beliefs and norms you still carry with you.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Would another way to say it ,MHWililams, is 'what does it mean to be Chinese?'.

 

[numble]

I mean, argument A - there should not be a race-based conception of being Chinese - is sort of just an "okay" kind of statement. It is akin to "People should not see race." On the surface, a fine statement, but not particularly actionable. There are various concepts of "Chinese" and many of those are tied to specific races who were borne of the region we know as China. That covers a broad swath of different types of people.

Argument B - Open immigration and foreign-born citizens taking part of government is good - is a more actionable statement. Something can be done. It can be measured and studied. The people of China can legislate in that direction.

One is an argument against people. The other against government.

But again, I note you ignore the rest of my question. What is his conception of "Chinese" that he feels he strikes to more than some of those borne in China? Because if broad strokes, that concept is wholly based in stereotypes and ideas rooted in Han Chinese, then he is at the same time falling prey to the problems he's railing against in Argument A. That there is a specific perception of "Chinese" to lean towards and stick to.

See the problem?

To come at it from the opposite side, being American isn't a function of a specific culture. A foreign native who immigrates to the United States and choose to stick to Black, Italian, or Irish American culture isn't more American. Becoming American is a process naturalization and citizenship. If you are Korean, and you move to America and live here and going through that process, you are American, regardless of how many Korean cultural beliefs and norms you still carry with you.

If you look at his whole article, his main argument is that Chinese was not a race-based concept in the past, when China was considered "strong". This is how there were multicultural cities and how Mongolians and Manchurians minorities ruled as Chinese emperors.

He is not making an Argument B, his point is that B results from Argument A. If the concept of Chinese is not tied to race, that should mean more open immigration and participation in government. Your concept of American is not the opposite side at all--if American was tied to a concept of a specific race, than a foreign native could not become an American simply by moving to the US (and they definitely cannot participate in government).