Why are European left-wing parties constantly getting blown up?
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exmachina64
Banned
How can you possibly believe that?
France is obviously not a centrally planned economy and workers aren't assigned jobs by the government. The French government doesn't have exclusive ownership of the means of production, private property rights are fully intact and (besides the higher tax rates on the wealthy) there's nothing stopping one from living a life of luxury.
Yep. The left public has largely given up on mainstream left parties and more leftist have been largely declared unacceptable.
Yes, enormous success for decades following WW2.
PdotMichael
Banned
Maybe you know some deeper specifics, but Wikipedia seems to disagree with you. His concepts are from the 30s and built off similar concepts from the 1800s.
And the catch-up-effect seems to be about poorer countries catching up, not growth in industrialized countries.
Vampirolol
Member
In Italy there's no place for it. If your ideas are left-wing then you're a "communist", a man living in the 70's who can't accept reality. But fascism/racist parties are just fine.
Italy is a right-wing country and will always be, that's why prime minister Renzi (democratic party) acts and works far away from the typical left party. I personally like some of the things he's done, if only M5S started doing real politics...
Italy is a right-wing country and will always be, that's why prime minister Renzi (democratic party) acts and works far away from the typical left party. I personally like some of the things he's done, if only M5S started doing real politics...
CadetMahoney
Member
so-called left, just centralist veering slightly to the right capitalism garbage.
Winner winner, chicken dinner. But that is a narrative that few left wingers like to hear.
Also, good luck on trying to stop your newfound ellectoral niches meant to replace your old working class ellectorate (inmigrants, feminists, ecologists, college students, etc) from hating each other's guts, too.
The left wing fragmentation tends to take a big toll on parlamentary seats in many political systems, but sure as hell appealing to identity politics is not going to help to prevent this either.
There's an identity crisis of left wing parties. Most of them have abandoned leftist behaviour and have become not very different from center/right parties in many matters, specially those concerned with the treatment of economy, energy, banks and big company lobbies. Most big left parties have been bought out by the big powers or have been corrupted by the system.
To further complicate things, they have taken a lot of social ideas to the extreme, so many voters while they agree with the principles of those ideas they don't like the implementations that result, specially in inmigration and social matters.
The left has stopped being left in the big matters and has become a mosaic of extreme appeasement policies. It needs to modernise and recover it's principles without any complexes. It needs to recover it's teeth and claws and fight back against capitalism.
To further complicate things, they have taken a lot of social ideas to the extreme, so many voters while they agree with the principles of those ideas they don't like the implementations that result, specially in inmigration and social matters.
The left has stopped being left in the big matters and has become a mosaic of extreme appeasement policies. It needs to modernise and recover it's principles without any complexes. It needs to recover it's teeth and claws and fight back against capitalism.
That's how I feel. Left won years ago and Europe is now the most to the left region of the world. People say there is no true socialist parties but I think it's the other way round. Conservatists pretty much accepted most of the left's both social/ economic points. They're okay with abortion/gay marriage/ high progressive taxation. There's not that much difference between left and right. Add to that resentment against immigrants, which fuels more extreme right parties, who in addition can tap into blue collar worker electorate as quite a few of them are socialist on the economic spectrum.
A lot of the original goals of social democrats are in place and people argue more about the money involved rather than the institutions existing. Extreme left ideas are not welcome. New topics, like green energy, quickly gets adopted by the other parties as well. That makes it difficult for left parties to advertise their ideas.
There is also the fact that the Unification of Europe does have some negative local consequences. The right wing parties are much better at pandering to a newfound wish for isolation. The left is in a crisis here because they love the idea of a unified Europe but they have no satisfying answer for the economic challenges it brings to their traditional voterbase. The working class also feels somewhat betrayed because a lot of policies necessary for the unification ended up increasing the effects of globalisation - and hurt them in the process.
In switzerland for example, the left is seen as intelectual and removed from the worries of the population. It's perceived as a party of teachers and public servants. They've very much become part of the establishment.
There is also the fact that the Unification of Europe does have some negative local consequences. The right wing parties are much better at pandering to a newfound wish for isolation. The left is in a crisis here because they love the idea of a unified Europe but they have no satisfying answer for the economic challenges it brings to their traditional voterbase. The working class also feels somewhat betrayed because a lot of policies necessary for the unification ended up increasing the effects of globalisation - and hurt them in the process.
In switzerland for example, the left is seen as intelectual and removed from the worries of the population. It's perceived as a party of teachers and public servants. They've very much become part of the establishment.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Leftist voters are more conscious. This is why conservative parties lose elections but are rarely blown out of the water no matter how bad they are, whereas poor leadership and turncoating always met a stronger punishment among the left.
Basically, each time a leftist party fucks it up, it gets destroyed in spectacular fashion or marred with terrible leaders borne out of internal strife (see: Spain's Zapatero and UK's Miliband). And it takes decades to fix it. I'm guessing that France is about to experience something like that after Hollande's grand fuckery.
Also, studies show that in some countries such as Spain, conservative parties are largely supported by the less educated, older and poorer part of the population. These people tend to have a clan-like attitude towards democracy; they are set on their sights and they will vote conservative not because they believe the official discourse, but because they feel the need to spite what they see as the enemy.
Meanwhile, leftist parties such as IU and Podemos tend to have younger and educated voters, whom are critical of their parties and will react against what they may see as a betrayal against their principles. This explains both IU's implossion and Podemos' recent deflation. Middle of the road parties such as third way socialists have stronger bases, but they are still sensitive towards overtly visible attempts at veering towards the right.
Then you must consider that the classic European left barely exists in this day and age, as it has been coopted by the powers that be. This leaves a lot of discontent moderate voters with no major parties to vote. See coleco's post.
TLDR version: European conservative voters accept, European leftist voters protest. The major European leftist parties have become radical centrist ones.
Basically, each time a leftist party fucks it up, it gets destroyed in spectacular fashion or marred with terrible leaders borne out of internal strife (see: Spain's Zapatero and UK's Miliband). And it takes decades to fix it. I'm guessing that France is about to experience something like that after Hollande's grand fuckery.
Also, studies show that in some countries such as Spain, conservative parties are largely supported by the less educated, older and poorer part of the population. These people tend to have a clan-like attitude towards democracy; they are set on their sights and they will vote conservative not because they believe the official discourse, but because they feel the need to spite what they see as the enemy.
Meanwhile, leftist parties such as IU and Podemos tend to have younger and educated voters, whom are critical of their parties and will react against what they may see as a betrayal against their principles. This explains both IU's implossion and Podemos' recent deflation. Middle of the road parties such as third way socialists have stronger bases, but they are still sensitive towards overtly visible attempts at veering towards the right.
Then you must consider that the classic European left barely exists in this day and age, as it has been coopted by the powers that be. This leaves a lot of discontent moderate voters with no major parties to vote. See coleco's post.
TLDR version: European conservative voters accept, European leftist voters protest. The major European leftist parties have become radical centrist ones.
Just looking at Die Linke in germany leftist parties promise the greatest stuff without actually showing a great concept on how to finance it.
Also the economy is not really doing that well. People are less inclined to spend money on shit for other if they feel like they could need that money for stuff that would benefit themselves.
Oh and because leftist parties often behave like amateurs (see Syriza).
Also the economy is not really doing that well. People are less inclined to spend money on shit for other if they feel like they could need that money for stuff that would benefit themselves.
Oh and because leftist parties often behave like amateurs (see Syriza).
I think it's pretty obvious when looking at the goals of traditional labour parties (not looking at parties like Die Linke with unrealistic goals). Equality and the same starting conditions for everyone are nothing which our society aims for. The mentality of the people is often like this: you have to earn wealth and if somebody can't make it, it's simply his fault. So basically it's all about money.
Let's face it: the majority just wants a good life for themselves. They don't care about poor people, immigrants or disabled people. We just want to enjoy our day therfore "screw the others". Conservative and right wing parties always use these scenarios (e.g. become poor, or immigrants making us poor) to exploit the fears of the people. A lot of the people hanging between the lower and middle class are very frightend of loosing their little wealth and furthermore they dream about becoming part of the upper class. Because of this "if you try hard enough, you will earn it" mentality they think that they really could one day.
Many statistics show that the people of the middle class are more likely to vote for a conservative class, which then leads to cuts for the middle class and to more benefits for the upper class, because they think that one day, they will benefit from it.
Then of course there are ideological reasons. Left parties are often being portrayed as communist parties and this is clearly no advantage in elections. Since the beginning of the cold war, leftish thinking is depicted as evil. Just look at the huge amount of movies in which the evil guy is a communist from the Sovjet Union. Even today! On the other hand the Americans/ Europeans are always the good guys, who save the democracy and freedom. I don't want to say that the Sovjet Union was a great thing - they clearly sucked. But people fail to see that leftish thinking and communism are two completly diffrent things.
There are far more reasons, but I guess you see my point here.
Let's face it: the majority just wants a good life for themselves. They don't care about poor people, immigrants or disabled people. We just want to enjoy our day therfore "screw the others". Conservative and right wing parties always use these scenarios (e.g. become poor, or immigrants making us poor) to exploit the fears of the people. A lot of the people hanging between the lower and middle class are very frightend of loosing their little wealth and furthermore they dream about becoming part of the upper class. Because of this "if you try hard enough, you will earn it" mentality they think that they really could one day.
Many statistics show that the people of the middle class are more likely to vote for a conservative class, which then leads to cuts for the middle class and to more benefits for the upper class, because they think that one day, they will benefit from it.
Then of course there are ideological reasons. Left parties are often being portrayed as communist parties and this is clearly no advantage in elections. Since the beginning of the cold war, leftish thinking is depicted as evil. Just look at the huge amount of movies in which the evil guy is a communist from the Sovjet Union. Even today! On the other hand the Americans/ Europeans are always the good guys, who save the democracy and freedom. I don't want to say that the Sovjet Union was a great thing - they clearly sucked. But people fail to see that leftish thinking and communism are two completly diffrent things.
There are far more reasons, but I guess you see my point here.
If you are a big enough economy then you can.
Giant Panda
Member
I have no idea what you're talking about. The Republicans do an amazing job smearing themselves.
As such the majority of people are fucking retarded as evidenced by their voting patterns.
Joel Was Right
Member
The other Miliband would have wrapped this election up weeks ago, I'm afraid.
dapperbandit
Banned
I can only comment with regard to France but it strikes me that the weak-sauce Socialism of Hollande has made him easily one of France's most loathed Presidents. It seems like a lot of European parties try to please everyone by flavouring centrist politics with socialist touches but this just frustrates everyone when its seen to flounder, for socialists its not socialist enough, for everyone else its too much.
Meanwhile actual blue collar workers are tempted by the Fronte Nationale and their anti-immigration, anti-EU policies which most left wing parties refuse to touch.
Meanwhile actual blue collar workers are tempted by the Fronte Nationale and their anti-immigration, anti-EU policies which most left wing parties refuse to touch.
That's my hypothesis as well: embracing neoliberalism is the death knell of any left-leaning party.
Business
Member
Couldn't that be skewed by the fact more people goes to university these days so the younger will automatically be classified as 'more educated' than the older?
Bomber Bob
Banned
in Europe every party is lefty
Also because define 'left-wing'.
The after multiple arguments and revisions of what socialist policies mean in real life, the left has become fragmented. Over time this has produced a vague notion of "leftist" ideals but not a clear idea of the direction for the future. The goals were set in the late 1800's but after they were mostly met, what then?
For the last few decades the left has fought a defensive battle. The welfare society was built in many countries in Europe, and the focus shifted from reforming the society to protecting it. Many progressives became (I really hate to say this) the conservatives in a way. But also, many other wanted to go forwards with social and economic reforms.
The left is in a way a victim of its own success. It's a popular movement, but what is a movement if it's to keep things how they are?
Also, internal strife is huge within the left wing parties, mostly because of lack of vision.
The after multiple arguments and revisions of what socialist policies mean in real life, the left has become fragmented. Over time this has produced a vague notion of "leftist" ideals but not a clear idea of the direction for the future. The goals were set in the late 1800's but after they were mostly met, what then?
For the last few decades the left has fought a defensive battle. The welfare society was built in many countries in Europe, and the focus shifted from reforming the society to protecting it. Many progressives became (I really hate to say this) the conservatives in a way. But also, many other wanted to go forwards with social and economic reforms.
The left is in a way a victim of its own success. It's a popular movement, but what is a movement if it's to keep things how they are?
Also, internal strife is huge within the left wing parties, mostly because of lack of vision.
More Fun To Compute
Member
The "moderate" left doesn't pretend to have any answer or opposition to global capitalism any more so it has no real unique selling point when compared to the right. While far right does have an answer to globalisation leaving the field in countries without a hard left to choose between center right and far right.
What? As an American, I literally have no idea what you're talking about.
This is part of it. Not the whole of it, but part of it.
dark_prinny
Banned
Because they are worst than the right winged, that's why.
Gurgelhals
Member
This. What scares me, however, is that people today slowly seem to lose awareness or even grow up completely unaware of the fact that all these major achievements of the left that we are able to enjoy today - health care, social security, public services, etc. - are all the results of several long and arduous political struggles. I think it's very dangerous to take these things for granted, because we cannot be certain that all this progress is definite and irreversible. I mean, some people would even say that the slow dismantling of these institutions has already been happening over the past 15-25 years. In that regard, I can understand the defensive, even conservative stance of the current left, because the struggle is real.
I think that the sort of dumb, bastardised and borderline illiterate interpretation of economic neoliberalism that has been the prevalent political ideology since the fall of communism (i.e. state solutions = bad. always. no exceptions; market solutions = good. always. no exceptions; markets are naturally efficient, governments are naturally inefficient; markets breed innovation, governments breed stagnation, and so on... You get my drift) has been very toxic in that regard. Hell, the financial crisis of 2008 basically disputed all of these stupid market fundamentalist tenets in one fell swoop and yet here we are, seven years later, and they're still shambling around the political stage like zombies. But as we all know, zombies are even harder to kill off than the living... :-/
In Portugal the votes are decided between two parties that are centrist. One has a more leftist inclination while the other a more right one but none of them fully right wing or left.
The really leftist parties just have no credibility or ideas so "out there" that voters don't see them as actual contenders to govern the country and more just like good opposition to the actual government.
The really leftist parties just have no credibility or ideas so "out there" that voters don't see them as actual contenders to govern the country and more just like good opposition to the actual government.
shadowsdarknes
Member
holy shit this is a ridiculous idea
True Savior
Member
I cant talk about other places but our country (Portugal) is very much left-centered. The problem is that the two more strict left parties basically hate each other (Trotskyism vs a Communist Party...you can image) . Actually one of them , even inside it , they hate each other because they are just a bunch of movements stitched together by a great politician who more or less left the scene.
Then we have the biggest party of the country , which is also left centered , but is scared shitless of joining forces with more wing parties because of possible alienation of the moderate vote. As kiguel182 said , they are left but not fully.
What happens ? Parties that have between 55 up to 70 % of almost any election , sometimes actually allows a right coalition to govern the country. It's bizarre.
Strangely enough in local governments...they can work very well together. People are always surprised knowing that we have a lot of Communist Politicians leading the Local Government (Municipalities). Actually they usually have the majority in the entire Lisbon Metropolitan Area. I would say most Americans wouldn't never dream this was real in a European moderate country like Portugal. Communists don't eat children (!). They are actually seen as a peaceful force of the entire country (peaceful as in control of the opposition in the streets vs possible more violent movements)
I'm Portuguese and i very much disagree with having no ideas. The same tape was said about Greece and Syriza.
And the actual Government is as right as right will ever govern in Portugal (thank god)
Then we have the biggest party of the country , which is also left centered , but is scared shitless of joining forces with more wing parties because of possible alienation of the moderate vote. As kiguel182 said , they are left but not fully.
What happens ? Parties that have between 55 up to 70 % of almost any election , sometimes actually allows a right coalition to govern the country. It's bizarre.
Strangely enough in local governments...they can work very well together. People are always surprised knowing that we have a lot of Communist Politicians leading the Local Government (Municipalities). Actually they usually have the majority in the entire Lisbon Metropolitan Area. I would say most Americans wouldn't never dream this was real in a European moderate country like Portugal. Communists don't eat children (!). They are actually seen as a peaceful force of the entire country (peaceful as in control of the opposition in the streets vs possible more violent movements)
I'm Portuguese and i very much disagree with having no ideas. The same tape was said about Greece and Syriza.
And the actual Government is as right as right will ever govern in Portugal (thank god)
QuicheFontaine
Member
Holłandaise sauce?
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
For germany: Compared to countries like the US our current government is already pretty left wing.
I think in germany the left is mostly about social justice and welfare and most germans right now don't think that these are the most important issues. Besides that, germany already has a pretty tight social net. So people vote for the center parties.
I can't say I'm particularly unhappy with the current political situation germany is in and I don't see the more left wing parties(Grüne and Linke) having any great ideas.
Unfortunately we see an increase in votes for anti-EU right wing parties. Its the usual nationalism that pops up when things aren't going great, but thankfully there is no way that any of these parties will have any influence in germany any time soon. Thats different in other european countries.
I think in germany the left is mostly about social justice and welfare and most germans right now don't think that these are the most important issues. Besides that, germany already has a pretty tight social net. So people vote for the center parties.
I can't say I'm particularly unhappy with the current political situation germany is in and I don't see the more left wing parties(Grüne and Linke) having any great ideas.
Unfortunately we see an increase in votes for anti-EU right wing parties. Its the usual nationalism that pops up when things aren't going great, but thankfully there is no way that any of these parties will have any influence in germany any time soon. Thats different in other european countries.
In the UK, Labour had a hopeless leader, refused to acknowledge the mistakes from their time in office, ignored local and national concerns in areas (particularly up North and in Scotland) where they should've had comfortable wins, lacked a coherent plan or message and walked into every trap the Tories laid for them. The story of the UK election is very much about the failure of the left and widespread lack of confidence from voters. I don't get the impression many people were particularly enthusiastic about the Tories, who seem to have gained their majority almost by default as a consequence of Labour and Lib-Dems failing to offer a viable, substantial alternative.
zero shift
Banned
In a way OP, you answered your own question. The majority of voters in 1st world countries are middle class. These aren't the type of people who are going to want to rock the boat. Left wing politics are just that left wing, they are seen as risky as oppose to playing it safe (liberal vs conservative). The average Westerner believes the mantra that if you work reasonably hard you will get rewarded by having a house, a family, retirement, and a stable income to support it all. As much as much of GAF is going to deny it, on average that is true. Yes poverty and debt are on the rise, but at the end of the day there are a large share of Americans and Europeans that live comfortably. It won't be until this goes away that you will start seeing the change you want.The only reason why Greece underwent such a radical change with its politics was because the first world lifestyle was eroded by the worst recession in modern history. This in turn broke the popular mantra of first world nations in which if you work reasonably hard you will get rewarded. Personally I wouldn't be surprised if that's what it takes for countries like the United States and the United Kingdom to "wake up" so to speak. Until most first world countries look like Detroit, it won't be likely for left wing parties to get a really strong hold again.
Syph Medwes
Member
Randomizer
Member
Spain are probably going left and and Ireland might be too.
You must not understand a lot about macroeconomics yourself if you are not able to ascertain that the neoclassically inspired neoliberal movement pretty much led us into the current economic mess in the western world. This idiocy that associates a causal relation between the right and economic growth has constantly been challenged by historical data but yet persists. It's like people said here, the right is really good at catering and convincing idiots that are shamed into fulfilling their civic duty.
The success of neoliberalism in establishing a new socioeconomic consensus forced leftist parties to accept its tenets and thus lose the thing they had that drove them emotionally.
Couple that with contemporary identity politics which generally doesn't want to change the basis of inequality in society (that capitalism is inherently hierarchical and based on power imbalance) but to tinker at the edges.
Couple that with contemporary identity politics which generally doesn't want to change the basis of inequality in society (that capitalism is inherently hierarchical and based on power imbalance) but to tinker at the edges.
paradise_circus
Member
well, there are some exceptions like the svp in swiss and in a "greater" deal the tories in uk.
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