Uh you set the bar pretty low. Not aware of the best coast curbing financial indentured servitude education costs or ridiculious health care expenditures. The west coast blows just not as much as the rest of the us. The last vestiges of social democracy really are in western europe and their eventual failure and marginalization will be one of the saddest events in modern history. No im not being dramatic. The post war years are quite possibly the most progressive , prosperous and humane years in a given region... like ever
Perhaps. This is why technological unemployment needs to happen as soon as possible. I cheer for my state of Nevada (both Gov't and Corp) trying to rid of manual drivers. I cheer for deep machine learning. I cheer for brain mapping. I cheer for convolutional neural networks.
When most peasants have no jobs, then there will be change. Until then, peasants (those I define as a household making less than 80k USD/year) are their own worst enemy.
Probably has something to do with declining native birth rates and increased immigration. Public spending feels better when it's on "your people" and not "them."
Just looking at Die Linke in germany leftist parties promise the greatest stuff without actually showing a great concept on how to finance it.
Also the economy is not really doing that well. People are less inclined to spend money on shit for other if they feel like they could need that money for stuff that would benefit themselves.
Oh and because leftist parties often behave like amateurs (see Syriza).
In a way OP, you answered your own question. The majority of voters in 1st world countries are middle class. These aren't the type of people who are going to want to rock the boat. Left wing politics are just that left wing, they are seen as risky as oppose to playing it safe (liberal vs conservative). The average Westerner believes the mantra that if you work reasonably hard you will get rewarded by having a house, a family, retirement, and a stable income to support it all. As much as much of GAF is going to deny it, on average that is true. Yes poverty and debt are on the rise, but at the end of the day there are a large share of Americans and Europeans that live comfortably. It won't be until this goes away that you will start seeing the change you want.The only reason why Greece underwent such a radical change with its politics was because the first world lifestyle was eroded by the worst recession in modern history. This in turn broke the popular mantra of first world nations in which if you work reasonably hard you will get rewarded. Personally I wouldn't be surprised if that's what it takes for countries like the United States and the United Kingdom to "wake up" so to speak. Until most first world countries look like Detroit, it won't be likely for left wing parties to get a really strong hold again.
That's what I'm not so sure about. The underlying assumption of this view is that social progress is an irreversable process, yet there's no real evidence for this to be the case. Who can say, for example, that at the end of this century this world won't have completely doubled back on itself and turned into a cyberpunk-style coporate dystopia (though probably without all the cool gadgets and technology)? I'll gladly be proven wrong about this though.
I wasn't trying to say that the Right can never win out, just that they haven't done so yet.
Europe is, on average, definitely travelling to the Right at the moment, but it's still firmly on the Left side of the equation. Maybe the Rightward travel will keep going long enough to cast us into the capitalist dystopian nightmare we imagine, or maybe it wont, but it certainly hasn't yet.
Sorry, just thinking out loud there basically. I always wonder why some people keep voting the right wing parties, when they are clearly not rich enough for it to benefit them directly.
I think the problem, so to speak, in western Europe is that so many people are so happy with their middle class lifestyles, new gadgets, nice cars, and low mortgage rates. They don't want to share the wealth with everybody, because they feel like they have more than the average person. Even when they don't necessarily. There aren't as many factory workers, or people doing physical labour any longer. And even if you're a factory worker, you might just be controlling a robot, and are well paid and taken care of. Of course there are still people doing physical labour, but their numbers are low enough for them not to be priority voters for any party.
Is there need for social democratic party when the society itself has adopted social democratic values? And the right wing parties don't want to change the situation too much, because they are successful in this situation. They don't want to rock the boat. Of course, is some lobbies tons of money for them, they might want to change some laws to make big business happier, but that doesn't necessarily affect average people...
Sorry, just thinking out loud there basically. I always wonder why some people keep voting the right wing parties, when they are clearly not rich enough for it to benefit them directly.
Never heard of the saying: "Wer hat uns verraten? Sozialdemokraten!" ?
A lot of physical labor pays better than a desk job. And in Belgium the middleclass is pretty big. Anyone with an income above 18.000 euro is taxed for atleast 45% though. And sales tax on almost anything but food is 21%! Huray for Socialism! I don`t understand that even with taxes like those we are still in dept. But atleast we have great social security!
Now what center-right wants to do is bring down those taxes and make some cuts in social security. ( Even with those cuts its still better than almost all of the social security out there ) and make our wages more competitive with neighbouring countries to create more jobs and boost the economy.
A lot of physical labor pays better than a desk job. And in Belgium the middleclass is pretty big. Anyone with an income above 18.000 euro is taxed for atleast 45% though. And sales tax on almost anything but food is 21%! Huray for Socialism! I don`t understand that even with taxes like those we are still in dept. But atleast we have great social security!
Now what center-right wants to do is bring down those taxes and make some cuts in social security. ( Even with those cuts its still better than almost all of the social security out there ) and make our wages more competitive with neighbouring countries to create more jobs and boost the economy.
And the left leaning parties in the government were against it for that reason - it hit the poorest people the hardest. But that's how it works in coalition government, it's not only about what you want but also where you're ready to make a compromise.Our last (mainly right wing) government raised sales tax to 24% though (14% on food, 10% on books and medicine). They like raising taxes that are same to everyone, but lowering progressive taxes.
Here's a hint: center-right wants to do that in every country with the same argument. It's basically a race to the bottom.
Considering we have a lot of major industry ,one of the largest ports in the world which creates work for a lot of people and we have lost jobs to neighbouring countries. This makes sense imo. Wages are going to keep rising. Our current social security and taxation systems are just overly complex and inefficient. Our wages are among the highest but we never see close to half of it now.
And the left leaning parties in the government were against it for that reason - it hit the poorest people the hardest. But that's how it works in coalition government, it's not only about what you want but also where you're ready to make a compromise.
Here's a hint: center-right wants to do that in every country with the same argument. It's basically a race to the bottom.
Ding ding ding. They're talking about a tax shift because the opposition started using that word and appropriating it was a good way to sell their policies. What they're mostly proposing is lowering the wage costs (for employers), increasing VAT (which hits the lower and middle class more than the rich and skipping the wage indexation (while multiple studies have shown it will be a neutral measure at best).
When there is talk of lowering the tax on wages on the employee side, the chamber of commerce who have a ton of pull immediately start balking that any tax cuts should go to the employer side only. I'd be all for lower taxes on wages, but I don't see it happening with this government.
And yes, a lot of social services are being cut. Everyone's talking about austerity as if "there is no alternative" never considering the amount of studies, including those from the IMF that state maybe a lot of countries went too far with their budget cuts and it is not the sole way out of a recession.
Yeah, that compromise should never have been made though, raising VAT should be the last thing to do, especially during depression. I'd like to think that was the reason Urpilainen lost her job as the party leader, but that's probably wishful thinking.
So if everything's crap, things are more expensive, services are being cut and lower wages, why do they keep winning?
A lot of their popularity came from having a strong party leader, support from nationalists who want to split the country and successfully creating a narrative the socialist parties were responsible for everything wrong with the country even though they only ever made up part of the government. Most of the parties that governed alongside them are in the new government, but they're still scapegoating them.
That said, they're probably responsible for some of it and I don't fully support their policies either.
They always are. The myth of socialist (or green red) hegemony within the European countries is strong.
The people who voted for them, didn't all think this would happen when they'd get elected. Opinion polls are showing lower support for them now than at the time of the election.
A lot of their popularity came from having a strong party leader, support from nationalists who want to split the country and cannibalization of our more racist party (both in terms of voters and politicians). Add a more divided left. They also successfully created a narrative the socialist parties were responsible for everything wrong with the country even though they only ever made up part of the government. Most of the parties that governed alongside them are in the new government, but they're still scapegoating them.
That said, the main socialist parties were probably responsible for some of it and I don't fully support their policies either.
Well the Conservatve Party in the UK have just been re-elected (they were the largest party in a coalition for the last 5 years that enacted cuts - I'm hesitant to call it "austerity" but cuts nontheless) so there's at least one case in Europe a left wing being getting blown up, as the OP phrases it.
Where did I dispute the premise of the thread?
You didn't. What you said was that the reason people elect them is, basically, because they don't think the right wing parties will do all the things you argue they will. I brought up an example where thats obviously not the case, because a right wing government in the UK has just been reelected with a higher vote share after 5 years.
