SatansReverence
Hipster Princess
Not even going to entertain that go no where argument.
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Why did race relations deteriorate so much in the last decade? And how do we fix it?
- Thread starter pramod
- Start date
GrizzleBoy
Banned
You don't have to be left of chairman Mao to reject bigotry.
People criticising other people for embracing bigots isn't an opposing argument/position to being a bigot.
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SatansReverence
Hipster Princess
You missed the point of my post.
It's the assumption you're a bigot because you aren't sitting on the left of chairman mao, not you actually being a bigot...
GrizzleBoy
Banned
And my point is that not being to the left of chairman Mao and failing to reject bigotry aren't the same thing.
TheChewyWaffles
Member
Social media turned the volume up to 11 on everything
SatansReverence
Hipster Princess
GrizzleBoy
Banned
You pulled percentages out of the air about having to be left of mao or youll be labelled a bigot as a reply to someone quoting polls showing the ratios of people who supported a racist conspiracy theory.
Beside the false equivalence, made up numbers, and making a rebuttal with a whataboutism that had nothing to do with your original discussion with the other poster, the insinuation was that you have to be extreme left to not be labelled or associated with bigotry, as opposed to just rejecting the bigotry.
Therefore my point remains that needing to be left of chairman Mao to show your opinion on bigotry, isn't the same as rejecting bigotry to show your opinion on bigotry.
AquaticSquirrel
Member
This thread is moving really fast now so lots of topics brought up, it's interesting to view everyone's take on it.
I just wanted to comment on the police situation in the US.
I'm from Europe so I don't have first hand experience with it but I've read enough to know that the justice system in the US is in need of massive reform. I know that nowhere is perfect and likely won't be no matter how hard we try but the entire justice system in the US is so corrupt and twisted that it really needs top to bottom reform. I'm speaking broadly about the courts, judges, plea bargains, for profit prisons etc... we could go on and on about it as it's own massive topic so I won't get into that element as I don't want to derail the thread.
A part of that system that is most in need of reform is the police force. It can sometimes be hard for people in European countries to really understand the depths of the corruption, malpractice and aggression displayed by the US police force in general. In our countries the police are mostly just in the background, most are not armed with guns etc.. (unless in special emergency situations). It would be very easy for an average citizen to go decades at a time with essentially no police interaction at all.
That's not to say that there are no bad apples or bad policing practices in Europe but for the most part there is no disdain and aggression towards the average person. There is also (again for the most part) no institutionalized racism or massive abuses of power against minorities (again for the most part).
Mostly policing here in Europe seems to serve the average citizen, more like the police were performing a service for the public good as it should be.
In the US from what I've seen there is a completely different paradigm in place. Rather than being servants of the public there to protect the peace, the police in the US seem to view themselves as above the average person and also above the laws they are supposed to uphold. "Do as I say, not as I do" taken to an extreme.
The police unions protect the officers from any accountability for their actions which makes them even more brash because they know there are no consequences to their actions or for them being bad actors.
This helps to foster a "brotherhood" of sorts that eventually morphs into an almost gang-like mentality. Anyone within the force with moral fiber who speaks up to try to right some wrong is shunned, intimidated and eventually removed from the force. In this way they self select and promote the worst behaviors.
The training is inadequate, to the point where they actually refuse people who are considered "too smart" to be police officers. Image that scenario for a second here, people are being armed with deadly weapons, authority over the average citizen and the right in extreme circumstances to kill. Now imagine that the lower intelligence members of society with often aggressive or violent personality traits are the ones being given this power and these tools to kill.
Now I know that the massive amount of gun ownership in the US is a huge issues that ties into this, there are far more guns per person than in Europe and a lot of them are illegally obtained too. I do understand that there is a lot of danger involved in the job of being a police officer which shouldn't be discounted as it often leads to extreme fear from even the best and well intentioned officers. This then leads to a "shoot first ask questions later" kind of mentality. This paranoia is further enhanced by police training and training videos which often help to exaggerate the perceived danger the police are in at all times. This is not good as the training should be doing the opposite and helping police keep a level head in tense situations.
If all of this wasn't bad enough, the police have an institutional problem with racism, especially against the black community. The police are given almost carte blanch to abuse, assault and murder members of the black community with impunity, partially because of the police union corruption mentioned earlier. On top of this the police have preconceived notions that most/all black people are criminals or threatening in some way so they disproportionately target black people even with non-violent outcomes such as traffic stops, stop and search or just general harassment.
In a perfect world with a working police force and justice system it is certainly logical to assume that having more police presence in a high crime area would help the residents of that area. In reality due to all that I mentioned above if police presence was increased in majority black neighborhoods then it would likely cause far more problems for the people there likely resulting in far more deaths, assaults, false arrests, harassment and abuse. This would definitely not help race relations or the black community at large I think.
As for other comments I'm seeing such as "racism is solved" or "calling people racist is worse than racism itself" I feel they are a bit misguided. In terms of the letter of the law it's true that there has been massive improvements to the point where on paper there are laws against discriminative hiring etc.. and generally most of the things you could consider as racist. The actual implementation of those laws is spotty at best, for example it's very difficult to prove that someone didn't hire a person because they are a minority etc... this also includes institutions that have ingrained racism such as the justice system and the police force which greatly affect the lives of minorities etc... I think you get my point, it's a large topic so I don't want to go into massive depth on it.
The idea that calling someone racist is a worse problem than actual racism is a silly position to take I think. There is definitely something to be said about the dilution and effectiveness of the term if everyone is throwing it around at the drop of a hat. There are also huge consequences for someone who is accused of racism to their personal/professional life through social media witch hunts that isn't often talked about. There are definitely a fringe group of very vocal people on the extreme left that push a certain tribalism "us vs them" kind of mentality that I don't think is healthy for people in general but definitely not for minorities and I do understand the idea of trying to promote individualism and personal responisibilty rather than the idea that the game is rigged, system is out to get you and it's everyone else's fault so you may as well not try. I think if that is the point people are making then it needs to be framed better such as "accusations of racism (and other things) are being thrown around too freely and I feel it is shaping a new generation in negative ways etc.." and jump off from there rather than framing it as "calling people racist is worse than actual racism".
At least that's my two cents on those specific issues.
I just wanted to comment on the police situation in the US.
I'm from Europe so I don't have first hand experience with it but I've read enough to know that the justice system in the US is in need of massive reform. I know that nowhere is perfect and likely won't be no matter how hard we try but the entire justice system in the US is so corrupt and twisted that it really needs top to bottom reform. I'm speaking broadly about the courts, judges, plea bargains, for profit prisons etc... we could go on and on about it as it's own massive topic so I won't get into that element as I don't want to derail the thread.
A part of that system that is most in need of reform is the police force. It can sometimes be hard for people in European countries to really understand the depths of the corruption, malpractice and aggression displayed by the US police force in general. In our countries the police are mostly just in the background, most are not armed with guns etc.. (unless in special emergency situations). It would be very easy for an average citizen to go decades at a time with essentially no police interaction at all.
That's not to say that there are no bad apples or bad policing practices in Europe but for the most part there is no disdain and aggression towards the average person. There is also (again for the most part) no institutionalized racism or massive abuses of power against minorities (again for the most part).
Mostly policing here in Europe seems to serve the average citizen, more like the police were performing a service for the public good as it should be.
In the US from what I've seen there is a completely different paradigm in place. Rather than being servants of the public there to protect the peace, the police in the US seem to view themselves as above the average person and also above the laws they are supposed to uphold. "Do as I say, not as I do" taken to an extreme.
The police unions protect the officers from any accountability for their actions which makes them even more brash because they know there are no consequences to their actions or for them being bad actors.
This helps to foster a "brotherhood" of sorts that eventually morphs into an almost gang-like mentality. Anyone within the force with moral fiber who speaks up to try to right some wrong is shunned, intimidated and eventually removed from the force. In this way they self select and promote the worst behaviors.
The training is inadequate, to the point where they actually refuse people who are considered "too smart" to be police officers. Image that scenario for a second here, people are being armed with deadly weapons, authority over the average citizen and the right in extreme circumstances to kill. Now imagine that the lower intelligence members of society with often aggressive or violent personality traits are the ones being given this power and these tools to kill.
Now I know that the massive amount of gun ownership in the US is a huge issues that ties into this, there are far more guns per person than in Europe and a lot of them are illegally obtained too. I do understand that there is a lot of danger involved in the job of being a police officer which shouldn't be discounted as it often leads to extreme fear from even the best and well intentioned officers. This then leads to a "shoot first ask questions later" kind of mentality. This paranoia is further enhanced by police training and training videos which often help to exaggerate the perceived danger the police are in at all times. This is not good as the training should be doing the opposite and helping police keep a level head in tense situations.
If all of this wasn't bad enough, the police have an institutional problem with racism, especially against the black community. The police are given almost carte blanch to abuse, assault and murder members of the black community with impunity, partially because of the police union corruption mentioned earlier. On top of this the police have preconceived notions that most/all black people are criminals or threatening in some way so they disproportionately target black people even with non-violent outcomes such as traffic stops, stop and search or just general harassment.
In a perfect world with a working police force and justice system it is certainly logical to assume that having more police presence in a high crime area would help the residents of that area. In reality due to all that I mentioned above if police presence was increased in majority black neighborhoods then it would likely cause far more problems for the people there likely resulting in far more deaths, assaults, false arrests, harassment and abuse. This would definitely not help race relations or the black community at large I think.
As for other comments I'm seeing such as "racism is solved" or "calling people racist is worse than racism itself" I feel they are a bit misguided. In terms of the letter of the law it's true that there has been massive improvements to the point where on paper there are laws against discriminative hiring etc.. and generally most of the things you could consider as racist. The actual implementation of those laws is spotty at best, for example it's very difficult to prove that someone didn't hire a person because they are a minority etc... this also includes institutions that have ingrained racism such as the justice system and the police force which greatly affect the lives of minorities etc... I think you get my point, it's a large topic so I don't want to go into massive depth on it.
The idea that calling someone racist is a worse problem than actual racism is a silly position to take I think. There is definitely something to be said about the dilution and effectiveness of the term if everyone is throwing it around at the drop of a hat. There are also huge consequences for someone who is accused of racism to their personal/professional life through social media witch hunts that isn't often talked about. There are definitely a fringe group of very vocal people on the extreme left that push a certain tribalism "us vs them" kind of mentality that I don't think is healthy for people in general but definitely not for minorities and I do understand the idea of trying to promote individualism and personal responisibilty rather than the idea that the game is rigged, system is out to get you and it's everyone else's fault so you may as well not try. I think if that is the point people are making then it needs to be framed better such as "accusations of racism (and other things) are being thrown around too freely and I feel it is shaping a new generation in negative ways etc.." and jump off from there rather than framing it as "calling people racist is worse than actual racism".
At least that's my two cents on those specific issues.
I am asking if you have ever been on the reviving end of what can be deemed racist. Have you ever had to second guess a decision or choice because the color of your skin might get you arrested or shot? This question ties directly to your assertion that racism has been taken care of for the most part.
SatansReverence
Hipster Princess
Exactly.
Ok?
While you are correct, you still aren't on the same wave length.
Vicetrailia
Member
That video isn't even a big deal, its like watching one from here. The vast majority of refugees aren't like that, and your crime stats don't indicate chaos, it barely blips with the influx of young males (who are problematic as a general rule for crime). Besides some fringe events which are extreme like sharia police, what has really changed for you?
SatansReverence
You're always wrong. If you don't care about the truth, why even bother?
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SatansReverence
Hipster Princess
Yea, ok, sure, mhmm.
I care not to participate in mental gymnastics and ridiculous circular logic. Entertaining such a thing would just lead gaf back to the shithole that it was.
*p.s or victim narratives in this case. Victim cards aren't valid to me.
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GrizzleBoy
Banned
Your final post on the debate about each parties support for birtherism as it pertains to race relations, was pretty much nothing more than a whataboutism that used made up numbers to assert that 30-40% of people think anyone to not left enough to be Marxist is a bigot.
In terms of mental gymnastics, I'd maybe call that a backflip into a layout with a half twist in mid air.
First of all . Yes our crime statistics show this. Example : Our intelligence service warns more and more about salafists be it women or men. We know have over 10k ptential terrorists and its rising more and more. We have statistics that almost every second mosque is teaching radical beliefs because there is no control at all. We have new studies in which words like JEW have become more and more a slur on schoolyards on school with a huge muslim population. Islam is a huge topic there already. And not the good kind. Honestly You have NO idea about European muslims. You can not compare them with your American ones. Also stuff like New years Cologne in 2015 are not because of evil males but because of immigration. Germany has become far more dangerous. If you want or notThat video isn't even a big deal, its like watching one from here. The vast majority of refugees aren't like that, and your crime stats don't indicate chaos, it barely blips with the influx of young males (who are problematic as a general rule for crime). Besides some fringe events which are extreme like sharia police, what has really changed for you?
Even so called moderates are forcing their daughters into marriage. Child Marriages have risen on a very high level. I think it was over 5000 last year. Seriously this docu was not made by some racist TV station this is a factual as you can get. Berlin alone is ruled by Arabic family clans NRW the state I live in is the same.
If you want sources I can give you some later but they are in German.
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NickFire
Member
Let’s see the receipts on those polls, including when and where they spoke to people in person that they are sure were an accurately representative group of Republicans. And oh yes, let’s pretend that if they even exist that an opinion poll on something of that nature has any merit. It’s not like we have any reason to doubt the reliability of a poll asking such a stupid question, or polls in general related to politics.
Sure, I'll take those sources please for each of these claims:
- Our intelligence service warns more and more about salafists
- We know have over 10k ptential terrorists
- We have statistics that almost every second mosque is teaching radical beliefs
- We have new studies in which words like JEW have become more and more a slur on schoolyards
- Islam is a huge topic there already. And not the good kind
- New years Cologne in 2015 are not because of evil males but because of immigration
- Germany has become far more dangerous.
Even if they're in german I'll just get them translated and then I can find other german sources to discuss your claims.
Since am at work I can ot give them right now but I will give them to you in the next few hours if you are ok with it.
It wasn't just one poll it was multiple poll done by various methodology.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_citizenship_conspiracy_theories
"Opinion surveys
In October 2008, the Orange County Register's OC Political Pulse poll found that a third of responding Republicans believed that Obama had been born outside the United States.[194] As a result of the widespread publicity given to the citizenship controversy, 60% of respondents in an Ohio State University survey carried out in November 2008 had heard of the issue. However, only 10% believed the claims that Obama was not a citizen.[195]
An opinion poll carried out for Daily Kos by Research 2000 in July 2009 found that 77% of Americans believed that Obama was born in the U.S., while 11% didn't, and 12% were unsure. However, Republicans and Southerners were far more likely than other political or demographic groups to doubt that Obama was born in the United States. 58% of Republicans either believed that Obama was not born in the U.S. (28%) or were not sure (30%), with 42% believing that he was. An overwhelming majority of Democrats (93%) and independents (83%) believed that he was born in the U.S. Support for the belief that Obama was born outside the U.S. was strongest in the South, where only 47% of those polled believed he was born in the U.S., compared with an average of 90% of residents of the Northeast, Midwest and West.[196] A marked racial disparity in the South was also apparent. Politico's congressional reporter, Glenn Thrush, commented that the Research 2000 poll "explains why Republicans, including Roy Blunt, are playing footsie with the Birther fringe."[196] Writing on National Journal's Pollster.com blog, Brendan Nyhan observed that the poll "suggests that the encouragement of the birth certificate myth by conservative pundits and Republican politicians has begun to activate the GOP base on this issue."[197]
A Public Policy Polling survey carried out in August 2009 found that 32% of Republicans in Virginia thought that Obama was born in the U.S., 41% thought he was foreign-born and the remaining 27% were unsure.[198]
In Utah, an August 2009 poll carried out for the Deseret News and KSL-TV found that 67% of Utahns accepted the evidence that Obama was born in the U.S. The poll found that those who do not believe that Obama was born in the United States, or do not know, are predominantly middle-aged, lower-income Republican-leaning individuals without a college education.[199]
A Pew Research Center poll found that 80% of Americans had heard about the Obama citizenship claims by August 2009. The poll found a significant partisan divide in views of the news coverage, with 58% of Democrats saying that the allegations had received too much attention from the media. Republicans were more inclined to say that the allegations had received too little attention, with 39% expressing this view against only 26% saying that the controversy had received too much attention.[200]
In a Harris Poll online survey of 2,320 adults conducted in March 2010, 25% of the respondents said they believed that Obama was "not born in the United States and so is not eligible to be president."[8] In a July 2010 CNN poll of adult Americans, 16% said they had doubts that Obama was born in the United States, and a further 11% were certain that he was not.[9]
The percentage of doubters plummeted after President Obama released the long form certificate in April 2011.[11][12][13] A Gallup telephone poll of 1018 adults conducted in May 2011 found that 5% of respondents believed that Obama was "definitely born in another country" and 8% believed he was "probably born in another country", versus 47% believing he was "definitely" and 18% "probably" born in the US.[10] Broken down by political affiliation, the same poll found that 23% of self-identified Republicans, 14% of independents, and 5% of Democrats thought Obama was definitely or probably born in another country.[10]
In July 2016, four months before Donald Trump was elected to the presidency, 72 percent of Republicans doubted that Obama was born in the United States.[201]
Dilemma for Republicans
Because a portion of Republican voters and their Tea Party supporters believe Obama is not eligible to hold public office (see Opinion surveys section), Republicans sometimes found themselves caught in a dilemma between losing support or damaging their credibility.[202][203] They had "to walk the fine line of humoring conspiracy-minded supporters without explicitly questioning Obama's legitimacy..."[204] Other Republicans, including former Minnesota governor Tim Pawlenty and former Pennsylvania senator Rick Santorum, however, have plainly rejected these claims.[205]
An example of these situations is Michael Castle, then Representative for Delaware, who ran in 2010 for the Senate seat vacated by Vice President Joe Biden. At a town hall meeting, Castle was confronted by constituents who jeered him for insisting that Obama is a citizen of the United States.[206] Castle, one of the leading Republican moderates in the House, was later defeated by Tea Party-backed Christine O'Donnell in the Republican primary,[207][208] who herself later lost the general election to Democratic nominee Chris Coons."
Also see https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/20...partisan-divide-over-birther-question-n627446
Take your time, no pressure. Its a forum, not an inquisition.
NickFire
Member
I may have mistaken you for someone else. I thought you were claiming polls showed a majority of republicans believed that. The polls cited do not prove that to be a fact, but you may not have been claiming a majority actually believed that anyway. If not my bad. Wasn’t trying to challenge that no republicans believed that. Just the narrative that most did.
Vicetrailia
Member
Child marriages too. What do you think about this? https://www.snopes.com/germany-allows-child-marriages/
Is it wrong?
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I was responding to what you responded to:
"Except we have multiple opinion polls showing Republicans did not believe Obama was born in the USA or weren't sure. (The amount is ambiguous in this sentence).
Except many opinion polls show a considerable portion of republican base doubted Obama's nationality. Obviously the birther issue is illogical but well............ we now have the chief proponent of birtherism as President of the USA.
(This is more in line with the statistical showings)
MisterR
Member
This mean no. They haven't ever experienced any racism directed towards them. Relations have gotten so bad because when you are privileged, equality feels like discrimination.
Vicetrailia
Member
You cannot participate in anything at all, quite frankly.
All claims, stories, and accusations are victim narrative, so your hero Ben Shapiro says.
You don't believe in the evidence of racism, no matter how much you are exposed to it. It's just mental gymnastics and circular logic.
The only real truth is that racism isn't really a thing today.
But the problem, of course, is old gaf. Yup. I might as well be talking to my shoe laces.
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I don't think this is a fair assessment, and if I am reading this exchange correctly,
SR's assertion is that in order to avoid the racism label they believe you must hold far left opinions.
1) I would say this is a fallacy unto itself. Racism is an ideology separate from political constructs so it appears it is being framed in the current partisan environment.
SR also seems to be assert that racism does exist but their analysis of it seems to be in extremes. Racism = something akin to slavery. The removal of institutionalized racism = the removal of most racism.
This is a sentiment echoed quite a bit and should be addressed.
The civil rights act of 1964 became law 54 years ago. For context my grandfather who was 92 years old recently past away. This means he lived 38 years as a second class citizen in the United States and lack of equal rights.
A civil rights activist and black pastor, he had 8 children with his wife, and about 25 grand-children. Many of his children were born into the US a second class citizens under the law. They experienced legalized discrimination.
This is just one person. who lived almost half his life under these conditions. The people who discriminated against him did not just magically disappear overnight as soon as the the Civil Rights Act was signed. Police officers did not instantly smile and treat African-Americans with kindness overnight. Nor did the children of those who discriminated against them instantly throw out their upbringing.
So this is a discussion worth happening. We frame these things as "slavery was 155 years ago" and "racism was eliminated 54 years ago. No, the legal process changed but the time it takes for peoples heart and opinions to change is much longer. Signing a piece of paper doesn't instantly force people to accept or agree with the laws. Nor do the systematic effects instantly disappear.
To someone who may not experience the pain of being a second class citizen the Civil Rights Act was a lifetime ago. To someone like my grandfather who lived for decades before it was enacted and raised children under legal discrimination's thumb it was only half a lifetime ago.
BANGS
Banned
BANGS
Banned
To clarify, what I'm saying is that in the west, we have a far bigger issue with false claims of racism than we do with actual racism... Actual racism has a minuscule amount of victims while these false claims of racism are being used to discredit tons of people and entire ideologies. And even more importantly, it makes it harder to identify the real racism when it actually happens...
BANGS
Banned
Straight from your article:
There is no evidence that any of the registration rolls were altered in any fashion, according to U.S. officials.
lol
prag16
Banned
If you think there aren't actually people who think the way he's describing (left of Bernie Sanders otherwise you're a bigot automatically) swing by a little place called resetera and have your mind blown. Or just dig up threads here from around the election.
TheGraykid
Member
"we have a far bigger issue with false claims of racism than we do with actual racism."
That's just your opinion man. One that feels wrong given what the average experience of a black person is.
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The Myth of Black on Black Crime rates. http://www.demos.org/blog/7/29/13/myth-black-black-crime-epidemic
Actually why was found is that the rising black on black crime statistics significantly dropped in the early 90's around 1992-93.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Los_Angeles_riots
Futher it led to this change.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-17878180
Mr Parks, who became chief of police in 1997, says the video led to changes within the LAPD and that the community's complaints were ultimately taken more seriously.
Many of the Christopher Commission recommendations focused on boosting multiculturalism in the police force, so that the officers would better reflect the communities they patrol. The force has slowly shifted from a paramilitary style to more interactive, community policing.
Officers who were once appraised by the number of the arrests they made are now encouraged to prevent trouble before it happens, says Connie Rice, who has moved from "constantly suing" the LAPD to working with them.
1992 Changed how police interacted with urban communities around the nation. As a result we see that BOTH the crime rate and homicide rate even on black and black crime has fallen. HARSHER police methods DO NOT statistically reduce crime. It is no coincidence that crime rates dramatically changed as police methods were questioned in the early 90s.
Source please?
Do you think that real racism can't be used to discredit entire... races of people and ideologies? I can't say that fake racism would make it any more difficult for me to identify real racism and it's effects but I don't think racism is over what do I know? Can you do us a favour? Can you give us 3 examples of fake racism being worse than real racism in the west?
To make this easier, here are 3 examples of the consequences of real racism.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/italy-shooting-right-wing-extremist-hitler-1.4519894?cmp=rss
http://time.com/4985332/hate-crime-uk-2017/
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...n-mosque-van-attack-darren-osborne-makram-ali
Tell me if any of this falls under fake racism pls
BANGS
Banned
I know it's my opinion. Unlike many others, that doesn't need to be pointed out to me...
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...eople-solution-problem-munroe-bergdorf-racist
ALL white people have been accused of being racist. White people are the majority. Therefor by default, it's a bigger problem...
I'm purposely simplifying for obvious reasons, but you get my point...
How does any of the evidence you've presented destroy all of the evidence she presented in that video? You can't just pick and choose the evidence that's convenient to you, obviously both paramilitary style and community style policing are effective. But the most important factor is MORE police and MORE EFFECTIVE policing... completely the opposite of what mckmas was saying...
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1) You are taking a single opinion of one person saying all white people are racists and then saying because white people are the majority its a bigger issue. Yes it doesn't make sense why would you simplify an complex issue to something like that?
2) Nothing about what I said counters or ignores anything OTHER than the claim that harsher policing is more effective. You replied with a video to this comment:
"As if you haven't known that violent crime has been down tremendously over the last 25 years. Police, governments, local communities, volunteers, etc have helped out most of those areas in a HUGE way. Police with harsher tactics is the LAST thing any person should want if they want to help out the black community in poverty rich areas. It literally makes no sense. That's not the answer at all."
Your reply to that was the video. We all agree police co-operation is key to reducing crime, however the most effective means is NOT harsher policing tactics. It has been statistically proven than less harsh and more community tactics lead to decreases in crime as well as better relationships with police, not tougher relationships on crime. If your goal is to reduce crime, embrace the community. Mckmas said the exact same thing.
BANGS
Banned
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...e-debunked-police-say/?utm_term=.eba10a7d8d61
https://www.inc.com/suzanne-lucas/man-fired-for-bringing-a-watermelon-to-work.html
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...ple-punches-84-year-old-man-article-1.3453110
https://nypost.com/2017/10/06/teen-beat-down-stranger-for-being-white-cops/
Tell that to the NYPD... stop and frisk has been incredibly effective...
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https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/07/us/nazi-congress-illinois.html
Isn't it amazing that a genuine nazi is running for office in America and there's a resurgence of the Far Right in the West but we're here discussing whether or not racism actually exists and even if it does, is it worth combatting?
like holy shit
obligatory
I won't link to the Birther part, whole thing is worth a watch.
Isn't it amazing that a genuine nazi is running for office in America and there's a resurgence of the Far Right in the West but we're here discussing whether or not racism actually exists and even if it does, is it worth combatting?
like holy shit
obligatory
I won't link to the Birther part, whole thing is worth a watch.
BANGS
Banned
I don't think anybody is arguing those things here. Also the resurgence of the Far Right is a direct effect of normal people being called racist, so add that to the list of reasons why false claims of racism are a huge problem in the west...
I don't understand this post? Are you saying the NYPD is right and the statistics are wrong?
BANGS
Banned
Stop and frisk would be considered "harsher" policing, no? And it's been insanely effective... this is exactly what I mean when I say you can't just pick and choose the evidence that works for you lol...
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Source?
It’s much more complicated. These marriages do not happen under German law. They either happen outside like in documentary or the people travel to countries which allow them and then come back. Still iris not easy to break them once they happened because of our laws. Some left wing politicians even argue to accept them because of different culture. No joke
BANGS
Banned
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/09/the-rise-of-the-violent-left/534192/
This is getting old... use google yourself dude...
Vicetrailia
Member
Hahahahahahahahha!
I mean 18 is fine, otherwise, it should be outlawed. I heard that in exceptional cases some were saying 16, and the super fringe at 14. But you guys don't seem to treat it like a black and white issue, which I applaud you for.
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No it wasn't. It took advantage of already declining nation-wide trends.
https://www.cnn.com/2016/09/22/politics/reality-check-stop-and-frisk/index.html
But is Trump right that stop-and-frisk "worked incredibly well?"
It is clear that crime rates plunged in New York during Giuliani's time in office, as well as the terms of his successor, Michael Bloomberg, who ramped up the stop-and-frisk program.
What's less clear is the policy's impact on the lower crime rate. The number of stops in the city rose dramatically from 97,296 in 2002 to 685,724 in 2011, a seven-fold increase, according to data compiled by the New York Civil Liberties Union based on police reports.
But the number of homicides did not fall in proportion to the soaring number of stops, dropping from 587 in 2002 to 515 in 2011. Moreover, the NYCLU also found that in the more than 5 million stops between 2002 and 2013, guns were found in only 0.2% of the cases.
Other violent crimes also fell during this time period. Assaults were down 13%, robberies declined 27% and rape declined 35%, according to City-Data.com. But none of these drops came close to corresponding with the huge increase in stop-and-frisk cases.
New York's stop-and-frisk policy was found to be unconstitutional by a federal judge in 2013 and current Mayor Bill de Blasio vowed to end it in 2014. The newly elected mayor dropped the city's appeal of that decision.
That decision elicited cries from some proponents that it would lead to a surge in violent crime. However, except for an uptick in 2015, the city's homicide rate continued its downward trend, reaching historic lows in the first quarter of 2016.
With or without stop and frisk the crime rate declined. This is an attempt to attribute the nation trend to a specific policy in one city as justification.
This is why data always has to be viewed IN CONTEXT and why these stats are the the ones selectively chosen.
The black crime rate is routinely selectively chosen to show how high it is but constantly omitting the decline and context of it.
That's the problem, you claim that I am picking and choosing statistics when you grab one and run with it to create a narrative that may not exist.
If stop and frisk where the cause of declining crime rates, then stopping the program should reverse the trend, not generate record low crime rates.
MisterR
Member
How are you affected by racism on a daily basis? Has there been a time in your life when you were negatively affected from being white?
Your source doesn't support your claim, its primarily about Antifa, and every claim I make I support with evidence. If you want people to take your opinion seriously you should provide sources that aren't debunked as ramblings and provide evidence. It's research 101.
MisterR
Member
Normal people for the most part are not being called racists. People saying racist thing or pushing for racist policies are, and if you turn into a white supremacist because your feelings are hurt because someone called white people racist, then I think it's pretty safe to say you were a racist piece of shit all along.
Personally I think even with 16 is fine with the parents permision and some kind of evidence that is is a marriage done out of love. but these should always be exception. When we are talking about child marrigaes I am talking about under 14.
This here is from 2016 and only the registered cases and all under 14. Also note: Before July 2016 these were at 361
1475 overall and 1152 of these were girls.
Syria 664
Afghanistan 157
Irak 100
Bulgaria 65
Poland 41
Rumänia 33
Greece 33
http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/gese...n-deutschland-sind-verheiratet-a-1111624.html
Also: If you migrate to Germany and have already married its even by law registered and with our current laws you can not even break these up. Because of these statistics people under 18 are not allowed to marry anymore so this has already changed our society. And again this was from 2016 it has changed already and not in a good way. Do you know see some of these problems we have? I will give more sources for my other claims shortly.
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BANGS
Banned
My entire childhood when I lived in a minority majority neighborhood and was physically threatened and harassed by the color of my skin daily. But that was the past, I purposely worked as hard as I could to be successful and get out of that area...
And if you wanna get really deep, the fact that my government assistance and grants for college were far less due to my skin color. The fact that I had to score higher on my SATs to get into college than others. The fact that ironically a good amount of people call me racist just because of the color of my skin. The fact that I even have to answer this question. The fact that further government assistance in the future may be denied by the color of my skin if I ever feel the need to peruse such things..
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