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[BANGS]

So what do you do with the fact that some of those same people said that Obama was born in Africa and wasn't a citizen of America?

It's a discrediting smear campaign, nobody with any critical thinking skills actually believed it, just like nobody with any critical thinking skills believes russia hacked our election...

People with an agenda will say dumb shit, simple as that...

I just can't wait for the day when everything is equal and people are scratching their heads trying to figure out what to bitch about next. I look forward to that day.

We are literally living in that day right now...

 

[NickFire]

It's a discrediting smear campaign, nobody with any critical thinking skills actually believed it, just like nobody with any critical thinking skills believes russia hacked our election...

People with an agenda will say dumb shit, simple as that...


We are literally living in that day right now...

Hard to disagree we have arrived when a well known University pays for a study that proves some people earn less from Uber because of experience, speed, and lack of common sense when picking where to drive around, yet said University feels Uber needs to invent software to somehow make everyone paid the same.

 

[Ke0]

It's a discrediting smear campaign, nobody with any critical thinking skills actually believed it

Didn't you yanks have an entire news network perpetuate it?

 

[NickFire]

Didn't you yanks have an entire news network perpetuate it?

Calling it an entire news network perpetuating it is left wing hyperbole. Were there some pushing it to smear the last pres? Yes, absolutely. But some and entire are not the same. And on a related note, not everyone who watches Fox believes every single thing their opinion people claim is either actual news or worthy of the hyperventilating.

 

[mckmas8808]

It's a discrediting smear campaign, nobody with any critical thinking skills actually believed it, just like nobody with any critical thinking skills believes russia hacked our election...

People with an agenda will say dumb shit, simple as that....

But see that's not fair! You get to call someone believing a racist smear campaign (because that's what it was and it looks like we agree here) stupid, whereas if we call them racist you get mad at us and say that we are in the wrong.

Why do you get to call them stupid and dumb. Because saying they have no critical thinking skill means you are saying they are stupid basically. And you are basically calling 20% of the Republican party stupid, because from memory that's about how many people believe that he's not a US citizen.

 

[Moneal]

But see that's not fair! You get to call someone believing a racist smear campaign (because that's what it was and it looks like we agree here) stupid, whereas if we call them racist you get mad at us and say that we are in the wrong.

Why do you get to call them stupid and dumb. Because saying they have no critical thinking skill means you are saying they are stupid basically. And you are basically calling 20% of the Republican party stupid, because from memory that's about how many people believe that he's not a US citizen.

I didn't hear or read about people calling birthers racists, but you definitely could. most are just conspiracy nuts from what ive seen. What I saw was claims of racism when someone disagreed with obama's policies, or calling anyone that voted for trump a racist or white supremacist or a nazi.

Didn't you yanks have an entire news network perpetuate it?

It was one opinion show host, Sean Hannity, on that network, Fox News, that took the birther thing serious. No one else on the network did.

 

[BANGS]

Didn't you yanks have an entire news network perpetuate it?

No we did not. And even if we did, our awful news networks aren't exactly known for their critical thinking skills. This isn't even just a problem in America, look at the Jordan Peterson debate that's making headlines...

But see that's not fair! You get to call someone believing a racist smear campaign (because that's what it was and it looks like we agree here) stupid, whereas if we call them racist you get mad at us and say that we are in the wrong.

Why do you get to call them stupid and dumb. Because saying they have no critical thinking skill means you are saying they are stupid basically. And you are basically calling 20% of the Republican party stupid, because from memory that's about how many people believe that he's not a US citizen.

What's not fair is you putting words into my mouth when you can't debate the words that actually came out of my mouth... And yes I'd argue far more than 20% of the Republican party is stupid, same with the Democrats...

 

[hiphopcr]

Were there some pushing it to smear the last pres? Yes, absolutely.

By "some" you mean our current President....

 

[NickFire]

By "some" you mean our current President....

No, because I was referring to "some" of the people working for Foxnews in that paragraph, and I don't believe he ever worked for them (as far as I know). That said, he absolutely was pushing it as well.

 

[Vicetrailia]

No we did not. And even if we did, our awful news networks aren't exactly known for their critical thinking skills. This isn't even just a problem in America, look at the Jordan Peterson debate that's making headlines...

It was widespread if you can remember correctly.

Right Wing talk radio hosts Michael Savage, Gordon Liddy, Brian Sussman, Lars Larson, Bob Grant and more all promoted it heavily. Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and Lou Dobbs went hard in the paint as well. Most notable was Hannity and and Trump though.

Then there are politicians, Roy Moore, Richard Shelby, Sarah Palin, Newt Gingrich, Mike Huckabee, Michelle Bachmann and more.

So there's the political advantage aspect, and then there's the racism (anyone willing to believe it).

 

[BANGS]

It was widespread if you can remember correctly.

Right Wing talk radio hosts Michael Savage, Gordon Liddy, Brian Sussman, Lars Larson, Bob Grant and more all promoted it heavily. Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and Lou Dobbs went hard in the paint as well. Most notable was Hannity and and Trump though.

Then there are politicians, Roy Moore, Richard Shelby, Sarah Palin, Newt Gingrich, Mike Huckabee, Michelle Bachmann and more.

So there's the political advantage aspect, and then there's the racism (anyone willing to believe it).

Yes, that is a decent list of morons...

 

[Dunki]

I just can't wait for the day when everything is equal and people are scratching their heads trying to figure out what to bitch about next. I look forward to that day.

This will NEVER happen since some ideologies do not know when to stop and even dying they try to find everyday a reason to still exist. People already arguing how it is racist when some white chef makes sushi, teaches Yoga or wears a Kimono.

 

[mckmas8808]

This will NEVER happen since some ideologies do not know when to stop and even dying they try to find everyday a reason to still exist. People already arguing how it is racist when some white chef makes sushi, teaches Yoga or wears a Kimono.

Do you believe that there are any real racist in this country?

 

[Dunki]

Do you believe that there are any real racist in this country?

of course there are why is this even a question? But there is a huge difference on whats being called racist these days and actual racism. And not even including the people who think that only whites can be racist. These are the kind of people who lessen the power and meaning of words like Nazi or racism. Because these days every person who doe does agree with them is one.

 

[mckmas8808]

of course there are why is this even a question? But there is a huge difference on whats being called racist these days and actual racism. And not even including the people who think that only whites can be racist

Because you seem to speak of the "false racism" charges way more than you do the real racist. You seem to speak of it as the false claiming of racist is actually worse than actual racism in the country.

 

[Super Mario]

Ignoring the rest of your post, because the statistic is only relevant against the society norm. You are ascribing an non-implicit merit to the 70% statistic. The statistic is only relevant relative to what it "should be" and it's only measure of what it "should be" is the societal norm. Thus if society deems this unwed mothers are the societal norm, then achieving statistical equality is one of the best outcomes.



As far as the correlation, white people are getting poorer too. In fact, the entire middle class is. As the income gap closes almost all statistical measurements begin to close as well. As middle class relative incomes decline, other measures begin to increase.

That's a pretty carefully selected metric to post "middle class a share of income". Your argument was that income was had a correlation to this, share of income is deceptive. The graphs you yourself posted don't tell that same story. Wealth for whites continued to skyrocket along with their unwed rate. Yes it dipped a little when Obama went into office. Still telling a different story

As a side note, I won't question your sincerity on whether you genuinely would mentor black boys without fathers, I encourage anyone with an interest in making a difference in a child's life and the lives of those around them to volunteer some time. An hour or two can make a world of difference in a world which can be cruel, callous, and apathetic to individual struggles. Even if you are not posting in good faith, it doesn't matter because people around the world with the capacity for kindness and empathy are. Those who are looking for a good time trolling anonymously on the internet will continue to do so, those who want to learn, understand, and who want to make a difference and take action will do so. I do not post for anyone's entertainment, I post because of the knowledge of our interactions taking place on a global stage and hope that I can encourage and strengthen others with my words.

Something we agree on (even though I know you're trolling me)

The link below is the best story I've read in I don't know how long on race relations. I hope it sticks with everyone. We've seen so many "black issues" that have gone viral that have contributed nothing but division. Why can't this be a national thing? Where are the rallies for constructive events?

http://fox8.com/2018/01/10/school-asks-for-50-dads-600-show-up/

These kids need this. They don't need to be told they are going to be shot by police. They don't need to be told white people are privileged. They don't need to be put into government dependence. They need a male role model to show them the ropes. Bravo to these men who showed up. Shame on race baiters.

 

[Dunki]

Because you seem to speak of the "false racism" charges way more than you do the real racist. You seem to speak of it as the false claiming of racist is actually worse than actual racism in the country.

These are the kind of people who lessen the power and meaning of words like Nazi or racism. Because these days every person who doe does agree with them is one. And I will be totally honest here. Social media makes the world way more racist than it actually is. Media makes the world way more racist than it actually is. People who are against illegal immigration for example are not racist. Someone like Milo who is totally an asshole is not racist. Trump is a nationalist for sure but I do not think he is racist.

To me as a German person words like racism and Nazi are on a whole other level then Johntron being stupid etc.

As for the poverty chart. I still beleive it has way more to do with classism not racism. So what you should do is bring stuff like education, better and harsher police control into these poor area so hat children have a much better chance in the future.

 

[BANGS]

You seem to speak of it as the false claiming of racist is actually worse than actual racism in the country.

I won't speak for Dunki, but I personally believe this to be true...

 

[Dunki]

Since we have Karnevall starting tomorrow here I give you another example.

This here is not racist

 

[mckmas8808]

These are the kind of people who lessen the power and meaning of words like Nazi or racism. Because these days every person who doe does agree with them is one. And I will be totally honest here. Social media makes the world way more racist than it actually is. Media makes the world way more racist than it actually is. People who are against illegal immigration for example are not racist. Someone like Milo who is totally an asshole is not racist. Trump is a nationalist for sure but I do not think he is racist.

To me as a German person words like racism and Nazi are on a whole other level then Johntron being stupid etc.

As for the poverty chart. I still beleive it has way more to do with classism not racism. So what you should do is bring stuff like education, better and harsher police control into these poor area so hat children have a much better chance in the future.

The bolded scares the living crap out of me that you said this. Like legit shook, because I know millions of people think the same thing and it's only going to make things worse.

I won't speak for Dunki, but I personally believe this to be true...

WOW! This is.........whoa! I just don't know what to say. Like my mouth is stuck open from pure shock.

 

[Dunki]

The bolded scares the living crap out of me that you said this. Like legit shook, because I know millions of people think the same thing and it's only going to make things worse.



WOW! This is.........whoa! I just don't know what to say. Like my mouth is stuck open from pure shock.

I do not think that letting drugs go wild is making it better in terms of education. And I am here do not talk about weed even though it will hinder your studying for sure. I am talking about harder ones. I am talking about on the street drug dealing. I am talking about the huge black on black crime in these regions etc. Poor Regions normally have a huge level of crime and it needs to be stped to make it possible for companies to move in there to give people in these regions better work etc.

 

[mckmas8808]

I do not think that letting drugs go wild is making it better in terms of education. And I am here do not talk about weed even though it will hinder your studying for sure. I am talking about harder ones. I am talking about on the street drug dealing. I am talking about the huge black on black crime in these regions etc. Poor Regions normally have a huge level of crime and it needs to be stped to make it possible for companies to move in there to give people in these regions better work etc.

Reading what you are typing is so odd to me though. You speak of it as if nothing has been done on this front. You speak of it as an end of days crisis. You speak of it as if it's not an issue in majority white communities too.

As if you haven't known that violent crime has been down tremendously over the last 25 years. Police, governments, local communities, volunteers, etc have helped out most of those areas in a HUGE way. Police with harsher tactics is the LAST thing any person should want if they want to help out the black community in poverty rich areas. It literally makes no sense. That's not the answer at all.

 

[Moneal]

Reading what you are typing is so odd to me though. You speak of it as if nothing has been done on this front. You speak of it as an end of days crisis. You speak of it as if it's not an issue in majority white communities too.

As if you haven't known that violent crime has been down tremendously over the last 25 years. Police, governments, local communities, volunteers, etc have helped out most of those areas in a HUGE way. Police with harsher tactics is the LAST thing any person should want if they want to help out the black community in poverty rich areas. It literally makes no sense. That's not the answer at all.

Yea what is needed is more cooperation between police and the local communities. Trust needs to be created between the two.

 

[Dunki]

Reading what you are typing is so odd to me though. You speak of it as if nothing has been done on this front. You speak of it as an end of days crisis. You speak of it as if it's not an issue in majority white communities too.

As if you haven't known that violent crime has been down tremendously over the last 25 years. Police, governments, local communities, volunteers, etc have helped out most of those areas in a HUGE way. Police with harsher tactics is the LAST thing any person should want if they want to help out the black community in poverty rich areas. It literally makes no sense. That's not the answer at all.

Its not harsher tactics maybe that was the wrong word. Its more about bigger presence and not harsher on the streets but harsher on court.. And of course you also need to have to establish a trust/bond with the police and the communitites which right now seems almost impossible due to the hostile atmosphere right now.

Maybe I am old but I do not think that you can solve these crimes rates by being too nice but that is just me. Most importantly for sure is that companies go back into these areas. Also I think events like Fergusson have not really helped at all. When angry people even burn down social instidutes destroy shops people buy and work in than there is something terrible wrong in my opinion. We had the same here in Hamburg during G20. These idiots burned and destroyed their own community shops and areas just to have a better fight with the cops. This people are just insane to me.

 

[mckmas8808]

Its not harsher tactics maybe that was the wrong word. Its more about bigger presence and not harsher on the streets but harsher on court.. And of course you also need to have to establish a trust/bond with the police and the communitites which right now seems almost impossible due to the hostile atmosphere right now.

Maybe I am old but I do not think that you can solve these crimes rates by being too nice but that is just me. Most importantly for sure is that companies go back into these areas. Also I think events like Fergusson have not really helped at all. When angry people even burn down social instidutes destroy shops people buy and work in than there is something terrible wrong in my opinion. We had the same here in Hamburg during G20. These idiots burned and destroyed their own community shops and areas just to have a better fight with the cops. This people are just insane to me.

So what should the citizens do if and when police are allowed to get away with breaking the law and nothing is being done to stop it?

 

[mckmas8808]

It's a discrediting smear campaign, nobody with any critical thinking skills actually believed it, just like nobody with any critical thinking skills believes russia hacked our election...

People with an agenda will say dumb shit, simple as that...

Russians penetrated U.S. voter systems, says top U.S. official

The U.S. official in charge of protecting American elections from hacking says the Russians successfully penetrated the voter registration rolls of several U.S. states prior to the 2016 presidential election.

In an exclusive interview with NBC News, Jeanette Manfra, the head of cybersecurity at the Department of Homeland Security, said she couldn't talk about classified information publicly, but in 2016, "We saw a targeting of 21 states and an exceptionally small number of them were actually successfully penetrated."

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/el...trated-u-s-voter-systems-says-top-u-s-n845721
​

So Bangs........you were saying.

 

[Moneal]

​

Russians penetrated U.S. voter systems, says top U.S. official​

​

The U.S. official in charge of protecting American elections from hacking says the Russians successfully penetrated the voter registration rolls of several U.S. states prior to the 2016 presidential election.​

​

In an exclusive interview with NBC News, Jeanette Manfra, the head of cybersecurity at the Department of Homeland Security, said she couldn't talk about classified information publicly, but in 2016, "We saw a targeting of 21 states and an exceptionally small number of them were actually successfully penetrated."​

​

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/el...trated-u-s-voter-systems-says-top-u-s-n845721​

​

So Bangs........you were saying.

not gonna speak for anyone, but usually using the term hacking in the way it was used is to describe the russians causing a specific outcome, getting trump elected. even the article you linked said:

There is no evidence that any of the registration rolls were altered in any fashion, according to U.S. officials.

 

[RefigeKru]

don't forget about the 50000 russian bots guys

https://www.theguardian.com/technol...bots-posted-on-election-than-it-had-disclosed

Posts by one Russian state propaganda account were retweeted by senior advisers to Trump, including his son Donald Jr and Kellyanne Conway, who is now a senior aide to the president in the White House.

 

[Dunki]

So what should the citizens do if and when police are allowed to get away with breaking the law and nothing is being done to stop it?

Leave it to the laws and courts I guess. Hostility towards the police will only lead to more hostility towards them. I do not think that selfjustice and violence is the answer. But What I personally do it to abolish this fucking gun law in the US so its safer for both.

 

[TheShadowLord]

Leave it to the laws and courts I guess. Hostility towards the police will only lead to more hostility towards them.

If there is enough evidence to prove a cop guilty but is found innocent, then there is going to be an outcry or a mob or a riot. There may have been incidents of this in past and would be a good reason why some blacks distrust cops. Because in their eyes justice was not done and the law has betray them.

 

[mckmas8808]

Leave it to the laws and courts I guess. Hostility towards the police will only lead to more hostility towards them. I do not think that selfjustice and violence is the answer. But What I personally do it to abolish this fucking gun law in the US so its safer for both.

Your gun law proposal is awesome, but we know the US is too far down the road on that.
And the laws and the courts are half of the problem why bad cops get away with doing illegal things.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Leave it to the laws and courts I guess. Hostility towards the police will only lead to more hostility towards them. I do not think that selfjustice and violence is the answer. But What I personally do it to abolish this fucking gun law in the US so its safer for both.

The police can be so dirty and corrupt with the system protecting them that it can take protests or even at times explosive riots to shed some light. Riots are for people with nothing to lose.

Read this. This ain't Germany, whom are amongst the most proactive problem solvers in the world (even if they go overboard), this is the U.S. We can't even get ahead of these kinds of issues ourselves, because of who it affects. We aren't proactive until shit blows up.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/06/us/baltimore-police-corruption.html

 

[Deleted member 12837]

​

Russians penetrated U.S. voter systems, says top U.S. official​

​

The U.S. official in charge of protecting American elections from hacking says the Russians successfully penetrated the voter registration rolls of several U.S. states prior to the 2016 presidential election.​

​

In an exclusive interview with NBC News, Jeanette Manfra, the head of cybersecurity at the Department of Homeland Security, said she couldn't talk about classified information publicly, but in 2016, "We saw a targeting of 21 states and an exceptionally small number of them were actually successfully penetrated."​

​

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/el...trated-u-s-voter-systems-says-top-u-s-n845721​

​

So Bangs........you were saying.

We've known this for a while (since late last year at least -- I even posted about it here in another thread in January), so I'm confused why this is now making headlines, but I'm glad it's getting more attention.

not gonna speak for anyone, but usually using the term hacking in the way it was used is to describe the russians causing a specific outcome, getting trump elected. even the article you linked said:

I don't think many people are making that sort of leap in logic. I see it more often used as an easily shot down strawman by people denying any sort of Russian interference in order to hand-wave away all of the legitimate evidence of Russian activity.

It doesn't matter if they affected the outcome or not. The point is they went to these lengths in order to sow discord and uncertainty and attempted to influence the election. That's serious enough on its own and deserves to be addressed by the sanctions that an overwhelming majority of citizens and politicians want and voted for, but Trump refuses to implement, and by putting considerably effort towards ensuring the integrity of the 2018 elections and defending ourselves from the same sort of activity on all fronts.

 

[TheMikado]

That's a pretty carefully selected metric to post "middle class a share of income". Your argument was that income was had a correlation to this, share of income is deceptive. The graphs you yourself posted don't tell that same story. Wealth for whites continued to skyrocket along with their unwed rate. Yes it dipped a little when Obama went into office. Still telling a different story

Something we agree on (even though I know you're trolling me)

The link below is the best story I've read in I don't know how long on race relations. I hope it sticks with everyone. We've seen so many "black issues" that have gone viral that have contributed nothing but division. Why can't this be a national thing? Where are the rallies for constructive events?

http://fox8.com/2018/01/10/school-asks-for-50-dads-600-show-up/

These kids need this. They don't need to be told they are going to be shot by police. They don't need to be told white people are privileged. They don't need to be put into government dependence. They need a male role model to show them the ropes. Bravo to these men who showed up. Shame on race baiters.

There is so much irony in this post, but I will start with your first premise.

1) There is nothing selective about what I am stating. The most ironic issue is that you complain about race baiting but used race baiting charts and graphs when it suits you. The chart in question completely ignores the stratification of wealth.

For more than half of white people the gap has shrink and if we were to only account for the first 90% of the lower population of wealth, it would show that the gap has closed for 90% of white and black people. However due to the wealth inequalities which have accelerated it skews the numbers so far as to make it appear as if white wealth has skyrocketed, when in reality only the top 10 percentile has skyrocketed which also comprised of less black people due to the historical context already covered. There is nothing selective about it, it is about accuracy and NOT CONTRIBUTING to race baiting as you seem to enjoy doing with that statistic. I did not use you stat on purpose because it purposely attempts to frame that gap increase as a RACE ISSUE, when in fact it is a CLASS ISSUE which disproportionate affects races differently. So again, because the the top 10% gap has skyrocketed and its composition includes few black people it skews the wealth claim and is not actually statistically relevant against the general populate and only useful for purposes of race baiting.

Anyway the percentile and class is relevant due to the fact that unwed mothers are disproportionately lower income. Thus as the lower percentile of white wealth closes and comes closer to lower income black wealth, the statistics in other measures also begins to close. It is no coincidence that as lower income white wealth gap has closed by half with lower income black wealth, other metrics, such as the unwed mothers replicate that gap closure.

2) The second irony is on what you claim people DO and DON'T need to be told. The truth is people need to be told the entire truth which includes historical context as well. They need BOTH black role models AND the historical context of their ancestry so that they can appropriately understand the history of their given lot in life and the means to improve it through hard work and education.

 

[Dunki]

The police can be so dirty and corrupt with the system protecting them that it can take protests or even at times explosive riots to shed some light. Riots are for people with nothing to lose.

Read this. This ain't Germany, whom are amongst the most proactive problem solvers in the world (even if they go overboard), this is the U.S. We can't even get ahead of these kinds of issues ourselves, because of who it affects. We aren't proactive until shit blows up.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/06/us/baltimore-police-corruption.html

pro active? In Germany we have the whole opposite. Police officers getten beaten more and more for just doing their jobs. Family clans attacking them on a constant basis. They get attacked for doing their normal job and they get brutally and violently attacked. These things happen almost on a daily basis now.

And what you can do actually is "attacking" and reforming the upper base and not the people on the streets who mostly do this for generations and risking their lives out there. If you make cops an enemy they are doing shit to protect the people who hate them anyway IMO.

 

[Vicetrailia]

pro active? In Germany we have the whole opposite. Police officers getten beaten more and more for just doing their jobs. Family clans attacking them on a constant basis. They get attacked for doing their normal job and they get brutally and violently attacked. These things happen almost on a daily basis now.

I don't see how this is a reply to being proactive.

And what you can do actually is "attacking" and reforming the upper base and not the people on the streets who mostly do this for generations and risking their lives out there. If you make cops an enemy they are doing shit to protect the people who hate them anyway IMO.

I'm not sure what you just said here. The issue is corruption bottom to top, top to bottom leading to immense distrust. Turning that around requires work from the police and judicial system. Obtaining the will to do that isn't something that comes naturally to us.

 

[Dunki]

I don't see how this is a reply to being proactive.



I'm not sure what you just said here. The issue is corruption bottom to top, top to bottom leading to immense distrust. Turning that around requires work from the police and judicial system. Obtaining the will to do that isn't something that comes naturally to us, it's fought for in blood.

These situations exist because we did not act in a pro active manner. These situations exist because we left the police alone, we let mass immigration happen we let it happen that people established ghettos in which most of them do not even speak our language, in which they have exiled law system, using for example sharia judges etc. Giving the police not the power they need resulted in this.

And for America: These things need to happen on both sides. I have seen tons of videos of people filming cop interactions but not just filming but provoking people doing their jobs, People who totall ignore the law they mostly do not know about in the first place. People who are screaming during totaly normal interactions and then wonder or whining how they get treated by the police when all this shit escalates. Being a cop in America with all this misstrust and with theese gun laws in which every peron can have a weapon on them would be at least for me absolute scary. I can not understood how someone can work as a cop in Americaand I respect these people who are doing their jobs.

How to fix it? I do not know honestly but I do not thing you can fix these problems by going after normal cops but rather go to the upper level instead.

 

[Snorlocs]

I won't speak for Dunki, but I personally believe this to be true...

I'm sorry. Did you just say that "falsely" calling someone racist is actually worse than racism?

 

[LordPezix]

Somewhere in a dark room, the evil sith over lord of our world is smirking at the success of his plan.

This discussion is classic divide and conquer,... thank you for participating.

 

[Vicetrailia]

These situations exist because we did not act in a pro active manner. These situations exist because we left the police alone, we let mass immigration happen we let it happen that people established ghettos in which most of them do not even speak our language, in which they have exiled law system, using for example sharia judges etc. Giving the police not the power they need resulted in this.

I don't live in Germany so it's hard to comment, but I'm not gonna take what you say at face value because I know that you are anti-immigration. For example, I looked up pseudo-police, sharia judges, internal ministry reports, stigmas of stringent social controls against foreign migrants, and didn't get any concerning power dynamics impressions. Even on crime, in fact, a lot of stuff was debunked. But alas I don't live there so it's difficult. And knowing how dramatic you are, well.

And for America: These things need to happen on both sides. I have seen tons of videos of people filming cop interactions but not just filming but provoking people doing their jobs, People who totall ignore the law they mostly do not know about in the first place. People who are screaming during totaly normal interactions and then wonder or whining how they get treated by the police when all this shit escalates. Being a cop in America with all this misstrust and with theese gun laws in which every peron can have a weapon on them would be at least for me absolute scary. I can not understood how someone can work as a cop in Americaand I respect these people who are doing their jobs.

How to fix it? I do not know honestly but I do not thing you can fix these problems by going after normal cops but rather go to the upper level instead.

You focus on community relations, fixing the systemic issues, low IQ police, poor training (Be more like Germany), and cultural factors. The mistrust of perfectly law-abiding people shouldn't exist. Police have a dangerous job, duh, but you gotta fix the big stuff. Youtube videos mocking police ain't shit compared to the feeling minorities get when a cop pulls over next to them and looks at them, even if nothing is happening. It you can't admit that the police have a system problem, then we can't talk.

 

[Moneal]

I'm sorry. Did you just say that "falsely" calling someone racist is actually worse than racism?

well false claims of racism can create the boy who cried wolf situations. It will get to the point were people just ignore the claims. That to me is worse than actual racism because it sets up people that actually experience it not being believed.

 

[Vicetrailia]

well false claims of racism can create the boy who cried wolf situations. It will get to the point were people just ignore the claims. That to me is worse than actual racism because it sets up people that actually experience it not being believed.

It sets up nothing. People don't believe claims even when there is absolute irrefutable proof of racism. "Racism is quantum locked".

One problem is people and their unwillingness to contend with it for various factors. Racism comes from the environment, and the air is all around us, but people don't wanna deal with it. That and difficult problems are well, fucking difficult.

 

[i_am_ben]

You realize there is no actual and reliable evidence more than 50% of republicans believed that, right? Just because someone with partisan intentions says it over and over does not make it true.

Except we have multiple opinion polls showing Republicans did not believe Obama was born in the USA or weren't sure.

It's a discrediting smear campaign, nobody with any critical thinking skills actually believed it, just like nobody with any critical thinking skills believes russia hacked our election...

People with an agenda will say dumb shit, simple as that...

Except many opinion polls show a considerable portion of republican base doubted Obama's nationality. Obviously the birther issue is illogical but well............ we now have the chief proponent of birtherism as President of the USA.

But see that's not fair! You get to call someone believing a racist smear campaign (because that's what it was and it looks like we agree here) stupid, whereas if we call them racist you get mad at us and say that we are in the wrong.

Why do you get to call them stupid and dumb. Because saying they have no critical thinking skill means you are saying they are stupid basically. And you are basically calling 20% of the Republican party stupid, because from memory that's about how many people believe that he's not a US citizen.

A yougov poll from December 2017 showed that 51% of Republicans believed that Obama was definitely or probably born in Kenya.

 

[prag16]

Somewhere in a dark room, the evil sith over lord of our world is smirking at the success of his plan.

This discussion is classic divide and conquer,... thank you for participating.

Probably. We live in a world where treating everyone equally and doing unto others as you would have done to you is no longer good enough. You do that, you're still a "colorblind racist" or some other flavor of bigot most of the time. Race Bait Incorporated. The stock is high. Gotta find that racism boogeyman behind every issue, argument, or problem. Of course there are legitimate issues, and there probably always will be. But so much of it is manufactured out of thin air by those who want to divide us. Stop the insanity.

A yougov poll from December 2017 showed that 51% of Republicans believed that Obama was definitely or probably born in Kenya.

Then 51% of Republicans are stupid. This wouldn't come as a shock. At least that percentage of Democrats are stupid too (14% for the same reason as those Republicans... yes, same poll, 14% of Dems thought Obama was born in Kenya too... which kind of makes me skeptical of the entire poll..).

 

[i_am_ben]

Then 51% of Republicans are stupid. This wouldn't come as a shock. At least that percentage of Democrats are stupid too (14% for the same reason as those Republicans... yes, same poll, 14% of Dems thought Obama was born in Kenya too... which kind of makes me skeptical of the entire poll..).

Well 14 percent is a lot less than 51 percent. So they're either a lot less stupid or a lot less racist.

 

[prag16]

Well 14 percent is a lot less than 51 percent. So they're either a lot less stupid or a lot less racist.

Or you know it's just partisanship. Like everything else. Like your comment itself. In this country that is divided as fuck. By people like you calling everybody racist by default. We're doing pretty good in here, and having a pretty good discussion, compared to this site pre-controversy, or the other site now. But there are still shameless race baiters among us. I give The Mikado for example a ton of credit for being pretty civil almost the entire time here. Not everyone has been as level headed, or avoided overt race baiting as he has.

 

[Dunki]

I don't live in Germany so it's hard to comment, but I'm not gonna take what you say at face value because I know that you are anti-immigration. For example, I looked up pseudo-police, sharia judges, internal ministry reports, stigmas of stringent social controls against foreign migrants, and didn't get any concerning power dynamics impressions. Even on crime, in fact, a lot of stuff was debunked. But alas I don't live there so it's difficult. And knowing how dramatic you are, well.



You focus on community relations, fixing the systemic issues, low IQ police, poor training (Be more like Germany), and cultural factors. The mistrust of perfectly law-abiding people shouldn't exist. Police have a dangerous job, duh, but you gotta fix the big stuff. Youtube videos mocking police ain't shit compared to the feeling minorities get when a cop pulls over next to them and looks at them, even if nothing is happening. It you can't admit that the police have a system problem, then we can't talk.

Watch this. It has english subtitles and was aired on a moderate TV Channel here 2/3 years ago.



It shows yu in what kind of paralel world some people here live and it has gotten worse now since we can not handle such a huge mass of people of a totally different culure. Hell try to integrate every year a whole city. The sharia part should be either near the middle or the end. Have not watched it in a while. But its all there.

The problem you probably can not understand as an american that you guys only have role models. We get basically everyone which makes it impossible to deal with in a proper way and radicalisation of young people is becoming a huge problem.

Also I want to note that I am not anti immigration but I want immigration in a controlled manner like in Canada.

 

[i_am_ben]

Or you know it's just partisanship. Like everything else. Like your comment itself. In this country that is divided as fuck. By people like you calling everybody racist by default. We're doing pretty good in here, and having a pretty good discussion, compared to this site pre-controversy, or the other site now. But there are still shameless race baiters among us. I give The Mikado for being pretty civil almost the entire time here. Not everyone has been as level headed, or avoided overt race baiting as he has.

So let me get this right:

• people who believe in birtherism are stupid
• birtherism doesn't matter because democrats are just as stupid
• birtherism isn't racist it's just partisanship
• me raising the astonishingly high rate of birtherism amongst republicans is race baiting

Maybe, the real race baiting is what conservative leaders did by convincing their base over the course of a decade to believe in a racist conspiracy theory.

 

[SatansReverence]

WOW! This is.........whoa! I just don't know what to say. Like my mouth is stuck open from pure shock.

Considering 30-40% of americans will call you a racist, homophobe, nazi, sexist, misogynist, transphobe and bigot unless you are left of chairman mao, yes it is a bigger problem these days.

Racism, by and large, has been dealt with. Yes, there is a small minority of racist people and they deserve to be called out and punished, but don't be acting like it's still the days of slavery.

 

[Snorlocs]

Considering 30-40% of americans will call you a racist, homophobe, nazi, sexist, misogynist, transphobe and bigot unless you are left of chairman mao, yes it is a bigger problem these days.

Racism, by and large, has been dealt with. Yes, there is a small minority of racist people and they deserve to be called out and punished, but don't be acting like it's still the days of slavery.

Just to ask, have you ever experienced something that could be considered racist? Are you a minority?