Support NeoGAF

[Strimei]

That's the thing, must have skipped Nanao, Soul Society was never really explored. Far as I can tell the bulk of the shinigami was supposed to be picked up from the outside where the souls wander and I don't recall they were supposed to live real lives there either. They are souls after all not soulhumans.

While it is left a bit murky, there are definitely Shinigami families. The noble houses (Kuchiki, Shihouin,

Spoiler

Shiba

) all have kids and generations within Soul Society (

Spoiler

Well, not Shiba, poor Kaien and his wife got killed before that, but they could've and that they were a noble family implies they are generational like the other noble families

)

 

[Uzumaki Goku]

How badly did Bleach drop the ball compared to Naruto?

 

[Mawile]

are you kidding me, this dude has Sasuke's nuts so far down his throat he hyperventilates at the revelation his friends have had enough of Sasuke's shit, like you just saw this dude try to murder Sakura. And this coming right after he let those Cloud guys beat the shit out of him and then he makes a fool of himself bowing to the Raikage. His obsession with Sasuke was turned up to 100. It all goes back to Kishi's failure of building up Naruto and Sasuke's relationship before Sasuke ran away.


Only thing I really like about Sasuke is that he too felt genuinely confused why those two stalkers keep coming for him, guy fully admits he's a shit heel and tells them to fuck off b

First off, he considers Sasuke his brother, and still believed he could save him. The man already had his father figure die recently, and is now hearing his brother do all these shitty things which is already torture on his mind, then when reality finally sinks in that his dream of saving Sasuke might not be possible, something he's tried so hard at, it's easy to see why he would finally crack under all the shit he went through.

I think it was a realistic portrayal personally of what might happen to someone under those circumstances and I'm glad he wasn't portrayed as always being able to deal with things.

 

[LotusHD]

How badly did Bleach drop the ball compared to Naruto?

Naruto dropped the ball, while Bleach dropped an anchor

 

[Cheerilee]

How badly did Bleach drop the ball compared to Naruto?

The Fall of BLEACH: How it Happened

 

[bigboss370]

OP is right of course.

But also, the last battle was trash. Naruto should have overwhelmingly curb stomped

 

[rambis]

are you kidding me, this dude has Sasuke's nuts so far down his throat he hyperventilates at the revelation his friends have had enough of Sasuke's shit, like you just saw this dude try to murder Sakura. And this coming right after he let those Cloud guys beat the shit out of him and then he makes a fool of himself bowing to the Raikage. His obsession with Sasuke was turned up to 100. It all goes back to Kishi's failure of building up Naruto and Sasuke's relationship before Sasuke ran away.


Only thing I really like about Sasuke is that he too felt genuinely confused why those two stalkers keep coming for him, guy fully admits he's a shit heel and tells them to fuck off b

The scene with Sakura was after the hyper ventilation. He was overwhelmed by the combination of the whole Uchiha/Leaf conspiracy and the fact that yeah his friends were about to fight to the death.

I can't say I fault him, he's always held the Leaf in the highest regards, the story as told by Obito was shady as fuck and actually gave Sasuke a bit of justification to hate them. At the same time he couldnt communicate this with the rest of his peers who were already determined to kill Sasuke. Thats alot of conflict introduced in a very short period of time. And its not like that even lasted that long, Naruto found his resolve to fight to the death with Sasuke right after that so I don't really get the complaints.

[citation needed]

Pretty sure Kishi said he got to finish the series on his terms.

https://narutobase.net/forums/showthread.php?t=652613

Oda: Was that the most difficult period for you while working on Naruto?

Kishimoto: No, that was probably the very end. The final chapter was in color, so I had to start on that really early. And because they'd already decided which issue it was going to run in, I had to space the story to fit that schedule.

 

[Host Samurai]

Sakura didn't deserve Naruto, he's way outta her league

 

[MaximumSpider]

Huh. I always figured it was Kishimoto wanting to end the story at exactly 700 chapters.
Still doesn't change the fact that the last few chapters felt rushed.

 

[Uzumaki Goku]

Yes they were

 

[Crimson_Echidna]

She was the only person who didn't treat Naruto like garbage when they were all growing up.

That's straight up revisionism. I mean, that one person was actually Iruka.

She didn't know how to be his friend due to crippling shyness, but she always rooted for him and was nice when she could work up the courage. She gets major points from me for not being an asshole.

And that's a bunch of filler added to the anime.

I think you can see Hinata somewhere in the crowd silently supporting Naruto.

 

[Uzumaki Goku]

SP likes to add lots of Hinata scenes because they love her so much

 

[Crimson_Echidna]

SP likes to add lots of Hinata scenes because they love her so much

Which is cool for people who really love the character, but I found a lot of the revisionism from both Studio Pierrot and her fanbase to completely undermine the early parts of Naruto. The entire point of his backstory was that he was completely alone but what kept him from going over the edge like Gaara was that he had Iruka in his life. And then later Kakashi, Sasuke, and Sakura. And then everyone else.

But then SP had to go a pander to the "Hinata's mah Waifu" crowd. lol

 

[Uzumaki Goku]

Which is cool for people who really love the character, but I found a lot of the revisionism from both Studio Pierrot and her fanbase to completely undermine the early parts of Naruto. The entire point of his backstory was that he was completely alone but what kept him from going over the edge like Gaara was that he had Iruka in his life. And then later Kakashi, Sasuke, and Sakura. And then everyone else.

But then SP had to go a pander to the "Hinata's mah Waifu" crowd. lol

Yep. The Last is nothing but retcons

 

[abstract alien]

It's a sad situation that happens all too often in real life. We've all seen it. That's partly what makes it what it is, and why most have a strong feeling about them being together.

 

[captainpat]

Which is cool for people who really love the character, but I found a lot of the revisionism from both Studio Pierrot and her fanbase to completely undermine the early parts of Naruto. The entire point of his backstory was that he was completely alone but what kept him from going over the edge like Gaara was that he had Iruka in his life. And then later Kakashi, Sasuke, and Sakura. And then everyone else.

I'm not sure I'd count most of the stuff SP added as revisionism. Yea she was "there" for him but not in any way like Iruka was.

 

[Error]

Hinata was willing to sacrifice her life not once but twice for Naruto.

Sakura was nowhere to be found when it mattered most.

 

[LeonSPBR]

I thought the ending itself was okay, but I agree romance in general was one of the many, many things Part II dropped the ball on.

You mention fan reactions, but that's a pile of comedy gold in itself (only read if you have time to spare)

Holy shit this is GOLD!!!

 

[SchrodingerC]

This, why do people want Naruto to be stuck with Sakura, lol.

Also have to post this to add to the pile of Sasuke a shit:

What is worse is Karin still a fucking terrible useless simp and in the end still cares/loves for Sasuke after everything he did to her.

Sasuke seriously should've been tried and executed at the end of the series for the massive amount of bullshit he pulled. Hell, he should've died when Deidara used his most powerful bomb.
Damn plot armor.

 

[MisterShine]

That's straight up revisionism. I mean, that one person was actually Iruka.

In the first episode of Naruto, Iruka is an asshole to Naruto, and he comments that he is usually tough on him. Iruka learns through the events of the first episode that he is being an asshat and should be nicer to him. Also in that first episode, Hinata (silently) roots for Naruto to succeed in his transformation jutsu.

This is repeated again in the Chuunin exams where Hinata roots for him in her head and is inspired by his fights to get into the final tournament, and out loud tells him that he is inspiring to her.

Hinata is the best and you just need to accept it.

 

[Fj0823]

Honesty andy Naruto being together is great

Their on screen relationship is horribly executed though.

The anime has gone beyond the last and we have had exactly 1 episode with them together. And he just caught her while falling and then she rushed to his side when Sakura KO'd him.

That's it.

Fuck the next arc is all about them getting married and we haven't had anything beyond that.

The small "first date" one shot wasn't even animates

 

[Ralemont]

The romantic high of the whole manga is Hinata's confession in the Pain arc (amazing moment).

Yeah, kinda undermined by no follow-up scene, though. Like everyone including Naruto and Hinata just drop it and it never comes up.

 

[Replicant]

Sasuke doesn't deserve anyone, be it Sakura's love or Naruto's loyal friendship. I mean, what has he done for them?

 

[Fj0823]

Yeah, kinda undermined by no follow-up scene, though. Like everyone including Naruto and Hinata just drop it and it never comes up.

While they don't address it directly, Naruto worries sick about her in the aftermath.

Then they hold hands during the war in a pretty cool scene.

IIRC Kishimoto said that all those moments were just little one sided things building up to Naruto and Hinata actually getting closer after grieving Neji together.

Sasuke doesn't deserve anyone, be it Sakura's love or Naruto's loyal friendship. I mean, what has he done for them?

ADULT! Sasuke seems like a pretty cool friend with Naruto. And he is the Picollo to Boruto's Gohan

 

[Crimson_Echidna]

In the first episode of Naruto, Iruka is an asshole to Naruto, and he comments that he is usually tough on him. Iruka learns through the events of the first episode that he is being an asshat and should be nicer to him. Also in that first episode, Hinata (silently) roots for Naruto to succeed in his transformation jutsu.

This is repeated again in the Chuunin exams where Hinata roots for him in her head and is inspired by his fights to get into the final tournament, and out loud tells him that he is inspiring to her.

Hinata is the best and you just need to accept it.

Another scene that wasn't in the manga. Iruka was an "asshole" because Naruto ditched class to spray graffiti around town. Guess you're going to ignore Iruka taking him out to dinner in that very same episode or even almost dying to protect him.

You're not going to convert me to the Church of Hinata, sorry.

 

[DMONKUMA]

I feel like this is the case for a lot of shonen manga. All gonna have pairings, some of the pairs are gonna be super obvious and some are just going to be questionable as hell.

 

[Paracelsus]

Hinata was totally written as a way to make up for the "fuck you" to the fans by not giving them what they wanted, so he wrote for Naruto a yamato nadeshiko that indiscriminately loved Naruto, a girl willing to improve herself and always do what's right (basically, the opposite of Sakura). While it sounds great, it looks like Kishimoto either didn't care or didn't know that once fans see who the hero likes, any other girl "winning" feels like a rebound or a complete loss.

At least on a superficial level, it seems to me he actually followed the GokuxBulma thing.

And it fits the theme too, because Bulma is still front and center in the show (when they don't fight), Chichi might as well not exist. Maybe they should've actually turned her Legendary SS with some asspull machine a la Baby, to keep her relevant.

 

[Cheerilee]

Doing a random google, I saw someone pointing out this interview.

Basically, Kishimoto wrote Sakura to be an ordinary Japanese girl, hoping that girls would relate to her and increase the manga's popularity with girls, but it didn't work. Very few people liked Sakura, and he's had little girls tell him to his face that they hate her. But Kishimoto was stuck with Sakura, because he made her a main character.

He put extra effort into making sure that Sakura was always pretty, spending more time drawing her than other characters, hoping that the extra attention from him would increase her popularity, but it didn't.

He doesn't understand how characters like Hinata and Kakashi became popular. He thought Sai was going to be popular, but that didn't happen.

He thought about writing Sakura some parents, but... Sakura's just so useless and depressing that she's not worth the effort.

He considered switching out Sakura for Hinata as soon as Hinata inexplicably became more popular than Sakura, he just couldn't figure out how to successfully do that (probably a good thing, as he likely would've ruined Hinata).

He killed off Neji as a way to finally ship Hinata with Naruto.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

There's 100 legitimate reasons to be upset with the ending of Naruto.

Romance... is not one of them. I don't understand the fascination Naruto fans have with this aspect of the series.

 

[LotusHD]

There's 100 legitimate reasons to be upset with the ending of Naruto.

Romance... is not one of them. I don't understand the fascination Naruto fans have with this aspect of the series.

You don't have to be fascinated to be upset at some of the endgame pairings lol

 

[Paracelsus]

There's 100 legitimate reasons to be upset with the ending of Naruto.

Romance... is not one of them. I don't understand the fascination Naruto fans have with this aspect of the series.

Yeah, and some of them still involve Naruto, like that he became Hokage when it didn't matter anymore. Anybody could've been Hokage by then.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

You don't have to be fascinated to be upset at some of the endgame pairings lol

In a series about ninjas using superpowers, who ended up with who was always the last thing on my mind. I could honestly not care less if Sakura ended up with Naruto, Sasuke, Orochimaru, random guy no. 432, or nobody.

I guess I'm fairly alone in that sentiment though.

On that note, I am glad the anime revealed who Kaguya was married to (father of the Sage). That seemed like a huge missing plot point in the manga. The entire Sage's History Filler arc was very well done. It's canon to me!

 

[Fixed2BeBroken]

I'm kinda pissed they didn't have Karen revealed to be Salad's mom and that Sakura was raising that kid in place of BOTH of her absentee parents. Sure, it would have destroyed Sasuke and Sakura's characters EVEN MORE, but it would have made more sense than them actually hooking up.

well I always thought the reason Sarada looked like Karen kinda was due to Sasuke having so much of Karen's DNA in him due to him taking so much of her blood for healing.
I thought that was a cool twist. Still sakura's daughter but still got a little bit of Karen in her.

 

[The Silver]

First off, he considers Sasuke his brother, and still believed he could save him. The man already had his father figure die recently, and is now hearing his brother do all these shitty things which is already torture on his mind, then when reality finally sinks in that his dream of saving Sasuke might not be possible, something he's tried so hard at, it's easy to see why he would finally crack under all the shit he went through.

I think it was a realistic portrayal personally of what might happen to someone under those circumstances and I'm glad he wasn't portrayed as always being able to deal with things.

you don't get it, this is the whole crux of the problem, they don't and never have felt like "brothers". The relationship that was built up between Sasuke and Naruto up to that point did not justify Naruto's extreme actions and reactions, he's just as insane as Sakura hoping on Sasuke's dick after all the shit he's done. I literally said that it all goes back to Kishi botching their time together.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

There's 100 legitimate reasons to be upset with the ending of Naruto.

Romance... is not one of them. I don't understand the fascination Naruto fans have with this aspect of the series.

It all adds up to bad handling with the characters. Romance is something that happens in Naruto and was handled really poorly.

 

[R0ckman]

Par the course for most Mangas.

Friend is in Japan working to be a manga artist, even females support this crap over there apparently. He can't bring himself to write character relationships like this and constantly butts heads with them. Even said its sending a bad message to women. They basically responded with - "It's what they want." A shame.

 

[BenjiGAF]

There's 100 legitimate reasons to be upset with the ending of Naruto.

Romance... is not one of them. I don't understand the fascination Naruto fans have with this aspect of the series.

It's possible to be fascinated by horrible accidents

 

[Uzumaki Goku]

Hinata was willing to sacrifice her life not once but twice for Naruto.

Sakura was nowhere to be found when it mattered most.

When Naruto was dying, Sakura was the one who saved his life

 

[Rumblebones]

Agreed.

Also Hinata is a trash character. She had potential pre skip, but she amounted to being nothing but a shitty satellite character with nothing going for her, and her hamfisted bullshit relationship with Naruto came at the cost of ridiculous retcons.

Naruto/Sakura was the initial endgame, that much was obvious and I don't think it really changed until much later in the manga when sequels were on the horizon. As mishandled as that relationship was, it at least made sense and had consistency going for it.

Sasuke should have ended up alone or with Karin, the only person as damaged as he was that would accept him without hesitation.

 

[AP90]

Naru/Hina is GOAT couple.

Both Sakura and Sasuke could have ended up alone for all I care.

This.

Team hinata ftw!!

Spoiler

=P

 

[Burbeting]

The writing suffers heavily from violating 'show, don't tell' in general.

We are told Naruto and Sasuke are like brothers, yet in part 1 they seem to tolerate each other at most, until Sasuke betrays Konoha, and descends into becoming bloodthirsty killer from there. The writing tries to retcon in flashbacks later to rectify this, but it just doesn't work.

Same with Sasuke/Sakura. We are told the two of them actually love each other, but nothing is even shown from Sasuke's side, and Sakura just ends up looking delusional in comparison.

Naruto/Hinta simply didn't have any screentime in the actual manga... so it ends up suffering the same fate.

 

[Uzumaki Goku]

The writing suffers heavily from violating 'show, don't tell' in general.

We are told Naruto and Sasuke are like brothers, yet in part 1 they seem to tolerate each other at most, until Sasuke betrays Konoha, and descends into becoming bloodthirsty killer from there. The writing tries to retcon in flashbacks later to rectify this, but it just doesn't work.

Same with Sasuke/Sakura. We are told the two of them actually love each other, but nothing is even shown from Sasuke's side, and Sakura just ends up looking delusional in comparison.

Naruto/Hinta simply didn't have any screentime in the actual manga... so it ends up suffering the same fate.

Kishimoto is a bad writer

 

[Uzumaki Goku]

I'm legitimately surprised PsychoMantis has popped in to defend the pairing. Why he likes it so much in spite of the murder attempts, the general not caring for her well being, not treating her like a human being is something I will never understand.

 

[Unknown One]

Man after Sasuke try to kill my ass once, I would have iced his bitch ass, even if he was my "best friend". That bullshit wasn't believable. Shika got robbed of that title, he was always a bro to Naruto.

Hinata is just as obessed as Sakura. She stalked Naruto for years. The only decent female is Tsunade.

 

[Dusk Soldier]

The writing suffers heavily from violating 'show, don't tell' in general.

We are told Naruto and Sasuke are like brothers, yet in part 1 they seem to tolerate each other at most, until Sasuke betrays Konoha, and descends into becoming bloodthirsty killer from there. The writing tries to retcon in flashbacks later to rectify this, but it just doesn't work.

Same with Sasuke/Sakura. We are told the two of them actually love each other, but nothing is even shown from Sasuke's side, and Sakura just ends up looking delusional in comparison.

Naruto/Hinta simply didn't have any screentime in the actual manga... so it ends up suffering the same fate.

We're definitely not told either of those things in the series.

In the first case, we see Naruto going on and on about how important Sasuke is to him, while a lot of other characters (including Sasuke himself) tell Naruto to leave Sasuke alone.

In the second case we see that Sakura is wildly infatuated with Sasuke, but nothing about their relationship could constitute as mutual love. Nobody else in the story ever refers to them as lovers or a couple.

 

[PaulBizkit]

The last arc was kind of hilarious in that the level of power-ups that Naruto and Sasuke kept getting were so increasingly drastic and ludicrious because absolutely nobody ever would be able to beat them in combat.

Naruto almost kills himself taking out Kakuzu with the combination of his entire team helping. Soon after that, he beats all 6 bodies of Pain simultaneously despite the fact that Pain beat THE ENTIRE VILLAGE simultaneously because of a training he spent like 10 days on.

At that point it just ramps absurdly over and over. He gets the Fox power forcibly (in like a couple of weeks) which is enough for him to beat up the LEGENDARY RAIKAGE who is buffed with Infinite Chakra, by himself. He also beats several other kage buffed with the same power-up. Then he beats up Madara Uchiha, who buffed himself with the ultimate power, then beats up the progenitor of the ninja race (granted he gets help from Sasuke there). By at the end of the series, Naruto and Sasuke are almost literal Gods to the point that nobody could ever plausibly defeat them in combat, either in the current ninja world or even throughout the entire history of humanity, because he proved it. Naruto was 1-manning dudes that all 4 Hokage couldn't take on while they were given not only unlimited chakra, but they were also literally invulnerable and could recover from virtually any injury and regenerate any lost body part.

Like, at least in Dragon Ball, you could speculate there's literal deities that could beat Goku in a fight.

My memory of naruto is not entirely ruined since I read everything until Pain and then stopped reading forever. When the end finally came, the week before I read the last 20 chapters (naruto and sasuke are friends again, team 7 is reformed and they are fighting against kaguya) and enjoyed the glorious triumph of the naruhina shippers.

But I digress... The thing is, I didn't know naruto became THAT powerful. Who defeated Obito then? Kakashi?

 

[NHarmonic.]

Yeah, kinda undermined by no follow-up scene, though. Like everyone including Naruto and Hinata just drop it and it never comes up.

Yeah, Kishi just ignored the thing later, but that's not that weird since he constantly and repeatedly ignored every secondary character not named Sasuke.

 

[decisions]

Man I loved the original series back in the day and it sucks to see that Shippuden totally falls apart. I watched like 50 episodes of it and it was never as good as the original despite some good character designs...

I could never be bothered to watch the rest considering how much there is, and how not that great all of it is...

Sakura loving Sasuke for no reason forever sounds ridiculous. Naruto and Hinata sounds like a terrible couple because Hinata is a terrible, uninteresting character who never developed to overcome timidity and take meaningful action. Now of course that may change in Shippuden but like I said haven't seen it.

Hopefully Shippuden is redone someday in a condensed form with meaningful story points. Instead we get Boruto. lol

 

[PaulBizkit]

Hopefully Shippuden is redone someday in a condensed form with meaningful story points. Instead we get Boruto. lol

Naruto definitely needs a remake. The first part not so much, just complete it a bit more with missions between the zabuza and chuunin exam arcs so naruto and sasuke's friendship seems real (and not the retcon-fest it ended up being).
But Shipuuden? dear lord, just demolish it and build it from scratch.


I know I'm alone in this, but I wished naruto was divided into three parts.

Naruto: same as before.
Naruto Shipuuden: same as before but ends at Pain Arc, more focus on character interactions (tenten exists btw), fights are less about power level.
Naruto Taisen: the great war is its own part of the manga. This is definitely the weakest part, and the one it needs to be remade the most.

 

[Tekniqs]

Watch Goblin if you want a real heartbreaking story about love OP

fuuuuuu

i'm on episode 8 lol...am I in for some shit? =/