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Why is the Pokemon anime dumbed down outside Japan?

B

BodiesWithoutOrgans

Member
this thread I want to use to talk about the Pokemon anime please don't use this thread as a what the anime could be, we will be talking about what the anime is right now for my comparsion I will be using season 18 as an example as in the japan its on its 19th season and the rst of the world is not on season 19 yet.

Why is the Pokemon anime outsde of Japan to what I feel dumbed down for its audience in America's, Europe & Beyond. I would really love to know the reasoing behind TPCI decesion season 9 to not use the official music, songs, opening & endings & replacing our very talented childooh voice actors with cheap knockoffs.

Season 18 has 2 openings here is

Part 1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waxkb2HEpWE

Part 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnqyavkwFTQ

One original song & a remix both epic interesting songs.

This is what the rest of world got in return for the America's, Europe & Beyond

Part 1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zI7vmYf1k5k

Part 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B57o_SIu710

Part 1 in the english gets credits because its a remix of the orginal them nothing got to do with TCPI at all and as for part 2 another generic Pokemon song with guitar music.

Youtube anyone Pokemon song created by TCPI since season 9 and every song is only played by a guitar.

Now I want to turn your attention to an episode of Pokemon or Pocket Monsters same episode in English & Japanese

The episode I'll be focuisng on is the Gym Battle against Korrina

Japanese Version

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBTrdpx9WBQ

Watching Pokemon is in Japanese is instence to say the least the voice acting is top notch and hearing the beautiful orchestral score is a treat and hearing the ost of Pokemon XY been preformed by an orchestra is another treat seeing the battle its instence a joy to watch its really sucks you into the drama in the clip.

English Version

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzoBewW4XfA

trying to watch the englosh version makes me cringe, such poor voice acting, and worst of all TPCI creates its own music for the anime basically poor midi music and when they do play the official score which is rare they play it as such a low volume you can barely and i use that word lightly they play it low.


Since Pokemon Movie 17 TPCI don't nbother to use the official movie score either instead of hearing this

https://youtu.be/WHq0M-ueU7Y?list=PL9mCMKp0o7xtzTYerOU5zalbZRSHE6hLy

you hear this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nniSiFpmB3A skip to 33:45

It really angers me to know that something has special as Pokemon is not shown its true potential outside Japan anymore.

4kids dubebd the anime from Season 1-8 and Movies 1-8 and they did a fantastic job introcding Pokemon to the world there own music was terrfic and there own ost music was never on par with the orginal but close and best of all they used the officla score like 80% of the time.

Emanples

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8pj9EwjNjw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GD1dusdGFco
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zInwD3MD7_U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuYeHPFR3f0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SeGoR8ZzUY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pb8lWlEqcgY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPlrTeCRX8g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-w2rz873Zk

the list could go on and on and on all songs so unique and different

One last thing a few years when my little borther was a baby he used to watch Pokemon in english and he like it so I showed him the same episode in Japanese so when Pokemon was next one he asked I dont like this episode where is the cool song and music remix as he would put it lol he was only small at the time.

To this day and forever I continue to download the lastest Pokemon episdoes of the anime subbed english & movies and I play it on TV for him to watch but you have to understand I read the subtitles for him becuase he is special needs.

He loves the opening cool song & ending and preivew of the next episode as he puts it.

One day I decided to sask him what do you like best about the japanese episode over the english dub and this is what he said..

""its actiony" I said can you explain that more to me

"I like hear the music of the games remixed in the battles its much more fun"

What he meamnt was hearing the orchestraions of the anime.

Shame on you TCPI for dumbing down the anime & movies in every possible way season 9 all done to save money which was the reason the original voice actors were fired.

Since Season 9 I have been watching the anime subbed thanks to PokeFanSub a group or people that continue to do what people paid to do wont do and that is keep the real anime alive and well for non japanese speaking people.

My question at the end of the day if i could ask TCPI is why?,why? deny the real pokemon to the rest of the world.

Sorry for along post its just I've been thinking of for awhile now.
 
G

GuitarGuruu

Member
I agree with what you've said fully. Its a part of the reason why I chose to watch it subbed instead of the actual dub. I really don't understand why they decide to gut music from the show and then replace it with a worse alternative. The show just has so much more emotion and life in it when watching it subbed in my opinion, so I'd go that route if you're interested in the story.
 
L

LiK

Member
American Pokemon was novel for its time but yea, I think I will check out the JPN version now. I wanna see what the original version is like. The American version is garbage with bad VO and music.
 
P

Pandy

Member
You answered your own question.
Shame on you TCPI for dumbing down the anime & movies in every possible way season 9 all done to save money which was the reason the original voice actors were fired.
Click to expand...
Money.
Re-recording soundtracks is expensive, and they probably don't sell the show for as much as they used to.

EDIT: I loved the early series and films, but later lost interest. I'm now wondering if that coincided with the switch from 4Kids. I'll have to go back and check, and if so, will check out the Japanese stuff. Thanks, OP. :)
 
K

Kapi96

Member
Dunno about the rest but I've always prefered the English opening themes. They sound much better to me. Think it was pretty cool they did a new version of the original Pokemon theme for X/Y too.
 
J

JayEH

Junior Member
could it be a licensing issue with the music?

Also the dub doesn't sound that bad to me. Runs.
 
B

BodiesWithoutOrgans

Member
GuitarGuruu said:
I agree with what you've said fully. Its a part of the reason why I chose to watch it subbed instead of the actual dub. I really don't understand why they decide to gut music from the show and then replace it with a worse alternative. The show just has so much more emotion and life in it when watching it subbed in my opinion, so I'd go that route if you're interested in the story.
Click to expand...

^^^^^^^^^

this is what I wanted to say but I woulnt think of to say in better words thank you sir or madam
 
R

Recall

Member
Didn't the same thing happen with the Yu-Gi-Oh franchise?

5Ds went to some dark places but the western version just butchered the shit out of it.
 
B

BodiesWithoutOrgans

Member
Kids are not dumb so stop treating them as such

Dubibng an anime should be so easy yet they make it so hard

all you have to do is dub the episodes & songs job done
 
K

Kouriozan

Member
Looks like it's US/English only?
France got the same VA since the very first episode, and I don't remember music being changed as I usually watch both French and Japanese.
 
Stilton Disco

Stilton Disco

Member
Can't comment on the comparative voice acting quality since I don't know Japanese, but yeah the musics not as good, though I can't say it seems particularly detrimental to the shows overall quality to me, ones better sure, but it's not like that makes the other unwatchable, just a sad fact of the show being less popular now and thus not being able to afford a better conversion to English.
 
JB2448

JB2448

Member
Outside of Japan, the Pokémon anime has always been altered in one way or another. Visual edits, music edits, cuts for time, you name it. The kicker is that they have every ability to dub it faithfully, and, in fact, have. Episodes such as the 142nd Diamond & Pearl series episode, as well as the first five episodes of the Black and White series (just to go back to their usual shenanigans with the sixth). If the costs of licensing the original score are so much more expensive than actually paying someone else to make new music, then why are there so many exceptions to this throughout the show's run, including entire episodes? And why is it handled so inconsistently?

Edit: Also might as well quote a post I made two-and-a-half years ago (has it really been that long?), since the topic needs more exposure, and most of this music being axed from international runs of the show is absolutely criminal:
JB2448 said:
I know the anime has already been mentioned, but I truly believe its soundtrack is its greatest merit, with some tragically underappreciated original work and arrangements of the games' soundtracks. Here are some of my favorites:
Arrangements (here's the full album playlist):
The Road to Cerulean City - From Mt. Moon
The Sea ver.2
Cycling
The High-speed Liner
Route 26
Ecruteak City
Oldale Town
Abandoned Ship
Cross the Sea (Hoenn Surfing Theme)
Twinleaf Town
Route 201

Anime Original Songs (here's the full album playlist):
Legend ver.2 (this one's my ringtone)
A Future Hope
Life's Purpose
...Such Sweet Sorrow
Enter Turtwig, Piplup and Chimchar!!

I could go on, but this is supposed to be only one or two songs already, so I'm pushing the envelope way too much as it is. These are what I consider to be some of the best songs to come out of Pokémon, most of them being arrangements of music from the games (the only on topic ones, technically :p). I wish Shinji Miyazaki could lend his talents to the games for a proper orchestral soundtrack, but until that (probably never) happens, this is the best we've got in terms of orchestral Pokémon music.
Click to expand...
 
Y

Yukinari

Member
If theres anything to get angry at the anime over its the fact that it has permanently destroyed Porygon's reputation cause of the stupid seizure episode.

Such a cool evolutionary line never used in anything.
 
B

BodiesWithoutOrgans

Member
JB2448 said:
Outside of Japan, the Pokémon anime has always been altered in one way or another. Visual edits, music edits, cuts for time, you name it. The kicker is that they have every ability to dub it faithfully, and, in fact, have. Episodes such as the 142nd Diamond & Pearl series episode, as well as the first five episodes of the Black and White series (just to go back to their usual shenanigans with the sixth. If the costs of licensing the original score are so much more expensive than actually paying someone else to make new music, then why are there so many exceptions to this throughout the show's run, including entire episodes? And why is it handled so inconsistently?

Edit: Also might as well quote a post I made two-and-a-half years ago (has it really been that long?), since the topic needs more exposure, and most of this music being axed from international runs of the show is absolutely criminal:
Click to expand...

The anime is used to sell Pokemon to people aka toys games and orhter merchantising it should be top notch notch no? not a poor effort
 
S

Sami+

Member
Did that Red OVA from a few years ago get a good dub? That was bomb as hell, I'd be down to watch it again. As for the official anime... eeehhh, I watched the first 20 or so episodes of Black and White in Japanese and wasn't impressed.
 
A

AnkiRendan

Member
Cool Guy Sami said:
Did that Red OVA from a few years ago get a good dub? That was bomb as hell, I'd be down to watch it again. As for the official anime... eeehhh, I watched the first 20 or so episodes of Black and White in Japanese and wasn't impressed.
Click to expand...

Pokemon Origins is the best produced dub of anything Pokemon related. You should definitely watch it.
 
S

Syril

Member
Cool Guy Sami said:
Did that Red OVA from a few years ago get a good dub? That was bomb as hell, I'd be down to watch it again. As for the official anime... eeehhh, I watched the first 20 or so episodes of Black and White in Japanese and wasn't impressed.
Click to expand...
Origins? I watched the first episode and it was pretty solid. They cut out Charmander screaming in pain for 10 seconds straight though.
 
B

boiled goose

good with gravy
Happens to almost all anime to a degree. Cartoons are for children in the west .

The Dragon ball Mexican dubs are so much better than the American ones. Also not censored.
 
S

ssjChris

Neo Member
I'm past the point where I care about getting a legit version of a lot of anime I saw as a kid but since 4kids and now TPC are in charge of the Pokemon anime I can almost guarantee that you will never see the original version in North America.

Children generally do not care about any changes. They are just watching it for what it is and the brand name. I'm sure the original includes long Japanese names, some Japanese culture and of course the occasional dirty joke or scene all which are scrubbed and "localized" from the original release. Theme songs on the other hand are pretty much a dead thing on American television which is why they are probably so half-assed here.

I do admit it's a bit puzzling on why they replace the music though.

EDIT: At least it's not 4kids One Piece bad. That situation was both hilarious (seeing the edits) and depressing as every episode had to be completely rewritten and digitally edited.
 
M

mapachealocado

Member
I started watching Pokémon XY (and now XYZ) with subs and it's so, so much better. Where I live we get a dubbed version of the US dub so... it's pretty terrible. I do remember watching some episodes of the B&W season with the US dub and I cringed so hard at everything everyone said.

It's just a common problem with anime. If you want to watch it, I recommend finding a subbed version. Japanese voice actors usually bring more emotion, even for an anime aimed at kids. And btw, XY/XYZ feels so different than the previous seasons, it's worth watching even if it gets the occasional silly episode.
 
M

Markoman

Member
Slightly unrelated guessing game:


'Your destiny will lead you, to where the people need you.
Though danger may have found you, you have your friends
around you now, now, now NOW!

From which anime? Little hint:
it's the best.
 
M

MrBadger

Member
Recall said:
Didn't the same thing happen with the Yu-Gi-Oh franchise?

5Ds went to some dark places but the western version just butchered the shit out of it.
Click to expand...

Yu-Gi-Oh is my favourite localisation because of all the ridiculous hoops they jump through to avoid characters being in danger of death.

"saws? Nah, they're dark energy discs that send your soul to the shadow realm upon contact"

latest
Click to expand...
 
I

Irishmantis

Member
I have not watched Pokemon since Season 3 and now I see Ash is swimming in Vagina lol

Wtf has he done since Season3 to become this babe magnet?
Did he ever hit it with Misty?

And God damn it!!! I thought Pikachu would of being evolved by now
 
C

Chase17

Member
I'd probably watch the sub over the dub but I'm never sure where to look for it. Dub has always been more accessible so I just roll with that.
 
V

VariantX

Member
Brawly Likes to Brawl said:
Children's anime typically get really lousy dubs.
Click to expand...

Yep. If you ever get a good dub, its by accident. No one's likely concerned about preserving context, mood or anything like that, just making sure they can crank out the episodes as cheaply as possible while carving out anything that could even be remotely percieved as harmful to kids. I remember growing up and finding out how they made sure to get rid of any concept of death or dying in their dubs.
 
N

neurosyphilis

Definitely not an STD, as I'm a pure.
This shit still comes on ? I say "shit" because after 2007 it became shit. Ash still hasn't became a Pokemon master yet I take it. And I bet Pickachu is still getting his ass kicked by level 1 Pokemon at the beginning of each new series, despite him probably should be lv 100 by now .
 
V

VariantX

Member
d0hv said:
This shit still comes on ? I say "shit" because after 2007 it became shit. Ash still hasn't became a Pokemon master yet I take it. And I bet Pickachu is still getting his ass kicked by level 1 Pokemon at the beginning of each new series, despite him probably should be lv 100 by now .
Click to expand...

This is this shit that makes no sense, ash wont use Charizard anymore because hes broken, yet he keeps his Pikachu on the roster that hes been leveling up since day fucking one for LITERALLY 19 years. Ash's Pikachu has forgotten more moves than most people and pokemon he fights have ever learned in the first place.
 
K

KittenMaster

Member
Recall said:
Didn't the same thing happen with the Yu-Gi-Oh franchise?

5Ds went to some dark places but the western version just butchered the shit out of it.
Click to expand...

Yu-Gi-Oh was always very dark but got sugar coated heavily by 4Kids including stuff like photoshopping out guns and their own equivalent of "being sent to the next dimension" in addition to the localization changes and changing the style of music.
 
N

Nanashrew

Banned
VariantX said:
This is this shit that makes no sense, ash wont use Charizard anymore because hes broken, yet he keeps his Pikachu on the roster that hes been leveling up since day fucking one for LITERALLY 19 years. Ash's Pikachu has forgotten more moves than most people and pokemon he fights have ever learned in the first place.
Click to expand...

Charizard isn't in some PC or at Prof. Oak's place. He's training in charicific valley back in Johto.
 
S

ShockingAlberto

Member
VariantX said:
This is this shit that makes no sense, ash wont use Charizard anymore because hes broken, yet he keeps his Pikachu on the roster that hes been leveling up since day fucking one for LITERALLY 19 years. Ash's Pikachu has forgotten more moves than most people and pokemon he fights have ever learned in the first place.
Click to expand...

It's almost like this is a children's show that throws out a single-minded goal in favor of morality plays about treating Pokemon well as a means of selling more toys and keeping the show mascot front and center for branding reasons.

But it can't be that because I am an adult and I don't like those things.
 
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