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[IceBringer]

Ask DTL

 

[Lois_Lane]

Ask DTL

D-who?

 

[Barrylocke]

Why is such kink shaming in this thread allowed? :/

As someone who generally doesn't mind and even sometimes enjoys the kink in question in the context of a sexy manga, it's definitely an interesting question as to why it's so common. I read more than my share of gay oriented explicit manga (aka Bara) and it's a common theme that's not always advertised on the cover or description, likely because it's so common.

A frequent form is the style where guy A is more overt in wanting sex while guy B is hesitant or not . Guy A may start moving in, removing clothes, touching, etc. in a way that guy B wasn't really looking for initially, and they move forward until guy B has a change of heart ("I said I didn't want this but it feels so good!") and they finally begin to reciprocate.

I've noticed that this trope often happens with the viewpoint character being the unwilling one in "made by gay" mangas. That does make me personally imagine sexual frustration from society as being part of why this is so enjoyed. Of course carrying over tropes from Yaoi which was always more common can be a factor as well.

Of course in real life we see this as problematic because it implies that you can force someone into enjoying sex.

 

[Earthbound64]

I know like 7 of those words I think

You don't know 30-ish of these words?

Like I don't understand. doesn't have this problem. can be stalker creepy but not full on forced penetration. The closest genre I've seen come to rape fetish is and it nowhere permeates the genre like it does . What gives?

 

[KillerMan91]

Why is such kink shaming in this thread allowed? :/

This is why I always cringe a bit when someone posts that picture of GAF fighting over video games but discussing porn in civilized manner around the table. It's not really true if we go to more morally in grey area fetishes/fantasies. There would be a lot of shaming and fighting it that thread.

 

[Azuran]

i scoff at unusual pupils, but i am with you on lizard girls

not that it compares to something of higher calibre, like say mantid girls. the more mandibles you can get into something the better, i say

That's one of the areas where the tag system usually fails. For example, most systems tend to use "insect girls" as an umbrella term for stuff like that. However, just because someone is into mantid girls doesn't mean they're also into spiders.

There's still a lot more work to be done if we want a system where someone doesn't need to spend hours looking for the stuff that gets them going.

 

[shintoki]

D-who?

Down To Love

 

[daviyoung]

You don't know 30-ish of these words?

would have thought a pedant would know exactly how many words in that sentence he didn't know

 

[Poppy]

That's one of the areas where the tag system usually fails. For example, most systems tend to use "insect girls" as an umbrella term for stuff like that. However, just because someone is into mantid girls doesn't mean they're also into spiders.

There's still a lot more work to be done if we want a system where someone doesn't need to spend hours looking for the stuff that gets them going.

i do respect the thankless work of our porn algorithm engineers

 

[Com Truise]

That's one of the areas where the tag system usually fails. For example, most systems tend to use "insect girls" as an umbrella term for stuff like that. However, just because someone is into mantid girls doesn't mean they're also into spiders.

There's still a lot more work to be done if we want a system where someone doesn't need to spend hours looking for the stuff that gets them going.

The worst is NTR encompassing netori. What's even the point? SUGAR IS NOT SALT.

 

[Frozenprince]

Because it's almost exclusively written by women who have a very, very warped view on what constitutes same sex attraction and intimacy.

Japan's views on homosexuality are not kind.

 

[Burbeting]

I think that this video is somewhat connected to the subject. If you are able, watch the whole Gaycation episode in Japan. It really shows how fucked up the country is at parts.

 

[Platy]

I didn't realize women were so mindless.

Don't worry, men win much more in the "mindless following trope/society norms" thing ...

 

[collige]

For information purpose, gay japanese porn is realllllly rapey, full of slavery/rope things with toys ect...

Slavery, rope things, and toys aren't rapey.

 

[RocBase]

It's homophobia. Pretty simple. Gay people are culturally percieved as "perverts", "no way it can be a legitimate, consensual relationship", and that's all there is to it. Yaoi usually caters to women who have no idea how gay relationships actually work

There's some decent, "realistic" yaoi out there, but yeah, sadly the majority is like that.

And the OP is asking a legitimate question, I don't understand the posts in this thread.

It's exploiting homosexuality, sure. But the idea it's acting on the basis of homophobia is kinda misplaced and ignores Japan's own societal gender dynamics that helped lead to the existence of yaoi.

 

[StoppedInTracks]

More fitting for this thread:

This is really good.

 

[Mr_Zombie]

Slavery, rope things, and toys aren't rapey.

They are in Japanese gay porn. We're not talking your typical BDSM stuff here; we're talking a "kidnap a guy and sexually torture him with everything you have at your hand" kind of stuff.

 

[Ray Wonder]

You don't know 30-ish of these words?

I know words; I know the best words.

would have thought a pedant would know exactly how many words in that sentence he didn't know

17 words, pedant i just learned though

 

[Taruranto]

You just need to be careful with your MRM tags.

 

[Earthbound64]

would have thought a pedant would know exactly how many words in that sentence he didn't know

Well, he said "like 7," not "7" or "exactly 7."

I know words; I know the best words.

Well then, I guess that answers it.

 

[Woetyler]

OP asking the real questions.

 

[How About No]

If you can't read the words it's easier to pretend it's consensual rough sex

More fitting for this thread:

omg this meme is reaching levels

 

[Haly]

I tend to avoid these kinds of stories. I wonder if there's a link between the fetishism and rape fantasies among women.

 

[Lois_Lane]

I tend to avoid these kinds of stories. I wonder if there's a link between the fetishism and rape fantasies among women.

There certainly is but why there is is a discussion for people smarter than me.

 

[Sgt.Pepper]

thats the best quality of that gif ive ever seen, the thread was worth it just for that

lol

I thought the same thing when I saw it.

 

[Brakke]

Why is such kink shaming in this thread allowed? :/

Hey. My kink is watching pseudonymous gamers getting shamed for their aberrant sexual tastes on the internet. Don't try and take this from me.

I need this.

 

[BGBW]

Yuri doesn't have this problem.

 

[meltingparappa]

Like I don't understand. Yuri doesn't have this problem.

What's interesting is the queer BDSM visual novel "Ladykiller in a Bind" -- the auteur game that just won the IGF "Excellence in Narrative" award -- was partially born on the idea that BL is free to explore more sexually challenging themes on the outskirts of consent, while yuri is traditionally self-confined to sweet or dramatically straightforward topics.

I'm doing the game's thematic complexity a huge disservice by summarizing it - but the game basically lifts the problematic freedom from BL and applies it to a lesbian framework, then makes the player complicit in how morally grey they're willing to go via their choices.

It's a masterpiece that I'm glad got its due recognition, despite the problems inherent towards presenting morally-challenging sexual fiction.

 

[Mawile]

It's an expression of an insanely sexually repressed society.

I hope you can express yourself more positively in the future.

 

[John Kowalski]

I don't read yaoi but my assumption is that it's a mixture of the discovering that you're gay narrative mixed with gender role perceptions that men are dominating and forceful with their desires.

 

[FunkyPajamas]

This is all I needed to know about Yaoi to figure out I need to keep away.

 

[Dedication Through Light]

There are lots of consensual happy feelings no rape yaoi manga out there. You just have to find it.

Unless youre only reading Faceless Mob x [insert your favorite character] doujins.

 

[Ratrat]

It's homophobia. Pretty simple. Gay people are culturally percieved as "perverts", "no way it can be a legitimate, consensual relationship", and that's all there is to it. Yaoi usually caters to women who have no idea how gay relationships actually work

There's some decent, "realistic" yaoi out there, but yeah, sadly the majority is like that.

And the OP is asking a legitimate question, I don't understand the posts in this thread.

Nope.
Theres a lot of rape in bara too. Which is made by gay men for gay men.
Honestly, if you look as western romance novels, there is a lot of rape too. Its just a thing.

Because it's almost exclusively written by women who have a very, very warped view on what constitutes same sex attraction and intimacy.

Japan's views on homosexuality are not kind.

So, like every other country?

 

[Ryuukan]

This is all I needed to know about Yaoi to figure out I need to keep away.

so is this your way of saying you prefer western homosexual erotica or that you're uncomfortable with homosexuality in general

 

[Kthulhu]

I think that this video is somewhat connected to the subject. If you are able, watch the whole Gaycation episode in Japan. It really shows how fucked up the country is at parts.

Yeah. Japan is really behind on LGBT rights compared to most developed nations.

 

[SenorArdilla]

Rape is a very easy way to introduce drama without too much planning. For instance, a male lead is raped and then his love interest comes in to save him. He considers himself filthy for getting raped but the power of cock heals him and the two become instant lovers.

 

[KO Traveling Hobo]

The fetishization of rape is not unique to yaoi, hentai, or Japan. It's very much a human thing that you see all around the world. iirc, wasn't the representation of "BDSM" in 50 Shades more akin to rape in many cases?

I was going to say that this is much to my disappointment, but thinking about it, dominant women in hentai often get into rapey territory as well.

 

[andythinkpad]

I saw this thread in the morning but didn't click on it because I was at work.

 

[Ratrat]

The fetishization of rape is not unique to yaoi, hentai, or Japan. It's very much a human thing that you see all around the world. iirc, wasn't the representation of "BDSM" in 50 Shades more akin to rape in many cases?

I was going to say that this is much to my disappointment, but thinking about it, dominant women in hentai often get into rapey territory as well.

Dont forget Americas favorite book after the Bible. Gone with the Wind.

 

[Nickle]

This is going to fuck up my Gaf mobile ads.

 

[SenorArdilla]

This is going to fuck up my Gaf mobile ads.

Now why would you say that?

 

[4 is a cutie]

The fetishization of rape is not unique to yaoi, hentai, or Japan. It's very much a human thing that you see all around the world. iirc, wasn't the representation of "BDSM" in 50 Shades more akin to rape in many cases?

I was going to say that this is much to my disappointment, but thinking about it, dominant women in hentai often get into rapey territory as well.

Maybe rapey content in porn isnt so bad...

but seriously, I agree. Not to say that Japan is a particularly LGBT friendly place, but at the same time even specifically looking at hentai, varying degrees of non-consensual sex is seen alot

 

[BassForever]

I'm 12 years old and what is this?

 

[Daingurse]

Honestly, hentai in-general has a lot of rape. No genre is immune sadly.

 

[Lois_Lane]

Rape is a very easy way to introduce drama without too much planning. For instance, a male lead is raped and then his love interest comes in to save him. He considers himself filthy for getting raped but the power of cock heals him and the two become instant lovers.

But... its his lover that rapes him. And then continues to rape him until the MC likes it.

The fetishization of rape is not unique to yaoi, hentai, or Japan. It's very much a human thing that you see all around the world. iirc, wasn't the representation of "BDSM" in 50 Shades more akin to rape in many cases?

I was going to say that this is much to my disappointment, but thinking about it, dominant women in hentai often get into rapey territory as well.

Yeah but yaoi and hentai go away farther than any western erotica I've read. How many western erotica books have the future love interest force themselves on the MC in a bathroom or something. Or explicitly talks about how great they bleed or shit. I can pick up a random romance novel and more than likely not have to deal with rape. So not the case with yaoi.

 

[Marmaladefire]

I don't know if you've ever seen any hetero animu smut for women, but it's the same thing. Kidnapping, rape, drugging, amnesia, etc. Since with Yaoi you are supposed to "identify" with the uh, bottom, you're basically suppsoed to imagine yourself getting "ravished" in these ways. More Yuri doesn't do this as often because the women are "pure" and because it is more of a voyeuristic genre than an immersive one. Yaoi more often is entrenched in sexism and exploitation of male homosexuality, while Yuri for men prefers to put women on an unrealistic pedestal, and exploit female homosexuality. And if a guy wants to see a girl getting kidnapped and raped and turned into an unwilling slave, well there's more than plenty of that out there too.

 

[Ryzaki009]

But... its his lover that rapes him. And then continues to rape him until the MC likes it.

Have you read romance books before? This isn't some unique concept. (Even in some the "consensual" romances (because it somehow doesn't matter if she's kidnapped because of tru wub) is very often questionable as fuck).

 

[Ratrat]

Have you read romance books before? This isn't some unique concept. (Even in some the consensual romance is very often questionable as fuck).

No, in this thread we are pretending its a unique trope ecxlusive to yaoi.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

No idea. Maybe it's what sells well?

 

[Lois_Lane]

Have you read romance books before? This isn't some unique concept. (Even in some the "consensual" romances (because it somehow doesn't matter if she's kidnapped because of tru wub) is very often questionable as fuck).

Really? The romance novels I've read never go farther than some weird Stockholm shit. Are we talking about bodice rippers?