SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Aren’t Naughty Dog and Guerilla making GaaS games?
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Why Single Player Gamers shouldn't fear the GAAS Revolution...
- Thread starter Men_in_Boxes
- Start date
Aren’t Naughty Dog and Guerilla making GaaS games?
protonion
Member
SP games for life!
Gaas can stay though. It's always entertaining watching them crash and burn.
How's your player count Diablo 4? HA HA HA
Cannot wait for the meme in a few years when Sony's gaas investment graph is next to a graveyard of a dozen games while Spiderman, Kratos... are laughing in the distance.
Gaas can stay though. It's always entertaining watching them crash and burn.
How's your player count Diablo 4? HA HA HA
Cannot wait for the meme in a few years when Sony's gaas investment graph is next to a graveyard of a dozen games while Spiderman, Kratos... are laughing in the distance.
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
Their MP teams are yes.
Their SP teams are making SP games. They're multiple project studios now.
IDKFA
I am Become Bilbo Baggins
The problem with GaaS games is that they require a constant player base to remain relevant, otherwise they crash and burn (see Hyperscape, Lawbreakers and the many more that lived and died in less than a year).
However, people only have so much time and can only invest in a couple of games at once. All these GasS titles are competing for a very limited number of players and time. They all can't be successful and not everything can be a GaaS title. For this reason, GaaS will never replace the offline single player experience.
However, people only have so much time and can only invest in a couple of games at once. All these GasS titles are competing for a very limited number of players and time. They all can't be successful and not everything can be a GaaS title. For this reason, GaaS will never replace the offline single player experience.
dreamstation
Member
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Hahaha Men in Boxes your threads will always be entertaining as fuck!
Never change
I fear this thread has been a failure. The central theme of the OP has seemingly been missed by everyone and it has turned into a generic GAAS good vs GAAS bad thread.
I must reassess my strategy and do better in the future.
ShadyAcshuns
Member
Don't fear the reaper, come on baby, take my hand.
Thirty7ven
Banned
Some of us are in it for the art of the thing, as crazy as that might sound to the op.
Little Chicken
Member
Why worry about GAAS now all of a sudden?
Not the market's fault Sony are a decade behind.
Not the market's fault Sony are a decade behind.
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
It seems you are having hard accepting the fact most of us are NOT INTERESTED in online only, GaaS and live service crap.I fear this thread has been a failure. The central theme of the OP has seemingly been missed by everyone and it has turned into a generic GAAS good vs GAAS bad thread.
I must reassess my strategy and do better in the future.
If you enjoy these crap then more power to you but leave us out of it.
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thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
My issue with Sony's approach is they've done it the wrong way. They waited too long, and they had IP they could've easily turned to GaaS but decided not to. I thought about it earlier this morning and feel if Sony were on top of this, they would've done these four key things:
IMO that is what Sony's GaaS approach should've been the past few years, alongside picking up Bungie and adding Destiny 2 & Marathon to the mix. You don't need to "test" if those games will find an audience: they are GaaS in IPs that already have big audiences and would naturally find at least moderate (if not major) success. Enough so Sony could've gauged where to go next. So let's say MLB/GT/Dreams/Factions/Destiny 2 are their 'Phase 1' so to speak. Then for the second half of the gen, they could phase out Factions Remake with Factions 2, Destiny 2 with Marathon, keep MLB 'Batzone' and GT Sport 2 going, keep Dreams going, and maybe release 2-3 other GaaS (one AAA, 1-2 AA) with additional variety to complete the lineup.
Bam. A nice stable of moderate-to-major GaaS cash cows in a variety of genres and markets. Best part? Hardly much of a squeeze on the 1P studios used to traditional AAA game development. It also would likely call for much less money invested than what Sony looks to need to invest with their current plan. I dunno what the budget for The Show is, but a F2P GaaS version of that would probably call for just a similar budget at most. If teams like Nixxes are assisting in creation of content in-house (you'd also want to expand studios like SSD and Polyphony, of course) then that saves on costs as well, and in this scenario that'd work because you wouldn't have Nixxes, Iron Galaxy etc. porting the non-GaaS to PC (outside of compilations of legacy titles, like remaster compilations for Uncharted, Jak & Daxter, GOW etc.).
That would have been the ideal approach for Sony to tackle GaaS growth this gen: start with a mix of big & small leveraging established IP that are already MP/community-focused to some extent and go GaaS with them. Then a few years later, see which ones can get phased out/replaced, and have a small handful of new titles to build off them replacement-wise. For example, say Sony phased out Factions Remake...that's why you replace it with Factions 2. Phase out Destiny 2? Replace it with Marathon. Stuff like that.
And these approaches, IMO, would not cause big disruption at most of the 1P traditional studios. I think, yeah, you can have some members from those studios pitch in to help with some content-related aspects of those games, like say Insomniac making Spiderman-themed outfits for MLB The Show F2P GaaS here and there, or a Spiderman-themed Ferrari or Lambo in GT Sport 2. But that's much less of an ask than having an entire team with hundreds of people in Insomniac making a GaaS of their own, meaning more members who can make a 1P AAA or AA traditional game at the studio simultaneous to what other teams are doing.
Speaking of things Sony dropped the ball on, I really feel they shouldn't have ceased AA 1P content to the degree they have. They've done some cool stuff with 3P devs like Ember Lab (Kena), and maybe they continue to do so, but I say either bring them into the fold as a 1P studio or expand some of their 1P studios to create AA titles again. Not everything 1P needs to be AAA, nor is that realistic. Sony will probably get less 3P exclusives going forward and exclusives 100% matter; they can't have giant gaps in exclusive content releases for the console and that's where AA games come in.
Last thing I would've probably done, is reduce the PC ports to just GaaS titles or games like Dreams. I do fear that long-term, Sony are devaluing PlayStation as a console with the PC ports, and even the sudden PS+ drops (like HFW). Multi-game sub services and (for a console like PlayStation) PC should be for legacy/catalog content that is several years old, or older. Remaster the content, of course, and price it fairly in compilations. Like, there's no reason to remaster Uncharted 1 on its own and put it on PC for $50 or even $40; no remaster effort would justify the price. But maybe you do it for $10, or in a collection with the other games for $40...just make sure you do a native port for those PS3 games to PS5 at a similar price. And, obviously, with legacy content this old, even remastering with tons of features and updated resolutions & framerates...I think they can do simultaneous PC & PS Day 1 for those.
So uh, yeah, I have a lot of critiques about Sony's PC & GaaS strategy this gen; I hope they have been making some big adjustments on that front. We've still got a good strong 15 or so years for console hardware IMHO, no reason to cut into that with self-inflicted wounds so soon. Sony shouldn't be doing Day 1 ports of traditional AAA to PC, or 1-2 year port windows of those, until probably nearing the end of PS6's lifecycle. By then they should probably already have a storefront on PC as well. But obviously, this is 2035 and beyond type of stuff, no reason to be pushing hard into that space today or this decade.
1: TLOU Factions Remake, simultaneous PS5 & PC Day 1 release with some perk bonuses for PS5 owners, either around PS5 launch or in the first year. Lots of people loved Factions MP mode and remaking it with some new content at a decent price (I'd say $50) would have been a hit. Maybe give early TLOU2 owners some additional perks to make up for no Factions in that game.
Factions Remake could've been a great way to get ND in gear for Factions 2, and then just..."replace" Factions Remake with Factions 2 when it's ready. For the people who didn't buy Factions Remake, sell Factions 2 for a reasonable price to them, maybe with some unlocks and bonuses of Factions Remake content so they can jump into Factions 2 running.
2: Dreams PS5 & PC ports, with embedded storefront. There is no reason this game should be ceasing new content and, basically, winding down so soon. It only came out in 2020, after years of delays. The game has SO much potential, but it could've really stimulated a ton more in created content (and revenue streams) by enabling a storefront and way for creators to monetize their content, sell their games, etc.
In fact MM were talking about doing this back in 2021, but now I doubt it will ever happen Very big mistake IMHO.
3: "Warzone" type offshoot of MLB The Show. This one should've been so obvious. 'MLB The Show: Batzone' or something like that. Like Warzone, put it on pretty much all the platforms (PS, Xbox, PC, Switch, mobile), and make it F2P. But then, get a little crazy with the content and modes. They can do full-on fantasy leagues, or even a few wacky courses reminiscent of those older Tecmo Mutant sports games, or homages to the wild SNK and SEGA-style baseball games.
So they'd have the annual release and, simultaneously, a F2P installment. Expand SSD so they can support both and have some of those assist/porting studios like Nixxes help with content because, well, they wouldn't need to focus so much on ports anymore 
. Sony could've had this going since the start of the gen and their failure to do so is surprising.
. Sony could've had this going since the start of the gen and their failure to do so is surprising.
4: GT Sport 2. I think instead of phasing out GT Sport and using GT7 as its replacement plus another installment in the regular series, Sony should've made a GT7 focused wholly on the single-player content and some light MP modes, and leverage the same engine and features for a GT Sport 2, allowing GT Sport progress to be carried over. Keep GT7 on the console, but make GT Sport 2 for PS5 & PC, simultaneous release, and possibly make it F2P. If they could get a version to scale for mobile, maybe it'd make for a great option as well.
IMO that is what Sony's GaaS approach should've been the past few years, alongside picking up Bungie and adding Destiny 2 & Marathon to the mix. You don't need to "test" if those games will find an audience: they are GaaS in IPs that already have big audiences and would naturally find at least moderate (if not major) success. Enough so Sony could've gauged where to go next. So let's say MLB/GT/Dreams/Factions/Destiny 2 are their 'Phase 1' so to speak. Then for the second half of the gen, they could phase out Factions Remake with Factions 2, Destiny 2 with Marathon, keep MLB 'Batzone' and GT Sport 2 going, keep Dreams going, and maybe release 2-3 other GaaS (one AAA, 1-2 AA) with additional variety to complete the lineup.
Bam. A nice stable of moderate-to-major GaaS cash cows in a variety of genres and markets. Best part? Hardly much of a squeeze on the 1P studios used to traditional AAA game development. It also would likely call for much less money invested than what Sony looks to need to invest with their current plan. I dunno what the budget for The Show is, but a F2P GaaS version of that would probably call for just a similar budget at most. If teams like Nixxes are assisting in creation of content in-house (you'd also want to expand studios like SSD and Polyphony, of course) then that saves on costs as well, and in this scenario that'd work because you wouldn't have Nixxes, Iron Galaxy etc. porting the non-GaaS to PC (outside of compilations of legacy titles, like remaster compilations for Uncharted, Jak & Daxter, GOW etc.).
That would have been the ideal approach for Sony to tackle GaaS growth this gen: start with a mix of big & small leveraging established IP that are already MP/community-focused to some extent and go GaaS with them. Then a few years later, see which ones can get phased out/replaced, and have a small handful of new titles to build off them replacement-wise. For example, say Sony phased out Factions Remake...that's why you replace it with Factions 2. Phase out Destiny 2? Replace it with Marathon. Stuff like that.
And these approaches, IMO, would not cause big disruption at most of the 1P traditional studios. I think, yeah, you can have some members from those studios pitch in to help with some content-related aspects of those games, like say Insomniac making Spiderman-themed outfits for MLB The Show F2P GaaS here and there, or a Spiderman-themed Ferrari or Lambo in GT Sport 2. But that's much less of an ask than having an entire team with hundreds of people in Insomniac making a GaaS of their own, meaning more members who can make a 1P AAA or AA traditional game at the studio simultaneous to what other teams are doing.
Speaking of things Sony dropped the ball on, I really feel they shouldn't have ceased AA 1P content to the degree they have. They've done some cool stuff with 3P devs like Ember Lab (Kena), and maybe they continue to do so, but I say either bring them into the fold as a 1P studio or expand some of their 1P studios to create AA titles again. Not everything 1P needs to be AAA, nor is that realistic. Sony will probably get less 3P exclusives going forward and exclusives 100% matter; they can't have giant gaps in exclusive content releases for the console and that's where AA games come in.
Last thing I would've probably done, is reduce the PC ports to just GaaS titles or games like Dreams. I do fear that long-term, Sony are devaluing PlayStation as a console with the PC ports, and even the sudden PS+ drops (like HFW). Multi-game sub services and (for a console like PlayStation) PC should be for legacy/catalog content that is several years old, or older. Remaster the content, of course, and price it fairly in compilations. Like, there's no reason to remaster Uncharted 1 on its own and put it on PC for $50 or even $40; no remaster effort would justify the price. But maybe you do it for $10, or in a collection with the other games for $40...just make sure you do a native port for those PS3 games to PS5 at a similar price. And, obviously, with legacy content this old, even remastering with tons of features and updated resolutions & framerates...I think they can do simultaneous PC & PS Day 1 for those.
So uh, yeah, I have a lot of critiques about Sony's PC & GaaS strategy this gen; I hope they have been making some big adjustments on that front. We've still got a good strong 15 or so years for console hardware IMHO, no reason to cut into that with self-inflicted wounds so soon. Sony shouldn't be doing Day 1 ports of traditional AAA to PC, or 1-2 year port windows of those, until probably nearing the end of PS6's lifecycle. By then they should probably already have a storefront on PC as well. But obviously, this is 2035 and beyond type of stuff, no reason to be pushing hard into that space today or this decade.
Thick Thighs Save Lives
NeoGAF's Physical Games Advocate Extraordinaire
I'm confused, is this a disguised thread about Sony's push into GaaS which will inevitably "doom" their SP games output? Regardless, they'll be more than fine, they have a stranglehold on waifu gacha games on console so even if all of them fail they'll survive.
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Guilty_AI
Gold Member
Start by coming up with a premise that is actually correct.
I must reassess my strategy and do better in the future.
Guilty_AI
Gold Member
No, its just a classic man-box thread.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Eh; the investment bump into non-GaaS wasn't THAT large TBH; percentage-wise it's just a tad bit more than what it was in 2020 IIRC.
Though, in absolute amounts, it could be significantly more. As in, the amount allocated for FY '25 would be measured percentage-wise against what was allocated for FY '23 or FY '20. But if FY '21 is getting $1 billion more in software funding than FY '20, even if the games cost more on average per AAA to make, that would signify a decent number of more such games coming from 1P.
The problem is we don't know the specific amounts. We also don't know how many such games were initialized funding and started dev in 2018 or 2019, because if they're AAA, we could expect to see them released next year and in 2025 (or 2026 at latest). Aside from Wolverine, I can't think of any Sony 1P AAA traditional titles that'd be coming between Spiderman 2 and 2026, based on what's known.
But maybe I've missed some information somewhere, and I know with many of Sony's studios they have multiple large teams within them working on multiple titles simultaneously. We know many have a traditional and GaaS title in dev, but how many have, say, 2 trad. AAA in dev right now, and how long have those games already been in development? Do any have AA games in development? How long have those been in development?
It's a lot of questions, with few answers it seems.
Robochobo
Member
If I have to pay for a game and then have to pay for expansions, characters/classes, or in general, game mechanics, the game can get shuttered for all I care. F2P games have a bit more leeway, but it can easily teeter on the edge of P2W which can kill the community quickly.
Doing GaaS correctly is an issue for developers, the game itself existing after a few years is an even bigger issue for gamers. FOMO is a big argument against, but it's honestly not that big of a deal. Would I regret missing out on the new ultra golden neon lit, 25k diamond, pop that pussy destroyer deluxe? Sure. Would it matter if it didn't do anything aside from look cool? No.
Don't be a Diablo IV or a Destiny 2, you suck. Strive to be a Deep Rock Galactic or Sea of Thieves.
Doing GaaS correctly is an issue for developers, the game itself existing after a few years is an even bigger issue for gamers. FOMO is a big argument against, but it's honestly not that big of a deal. Would I regret missing out on the new ultra golden neon lit, 25k diamond, pop that pussy destroyer deluxe? Sure. Would it matter if it didn't do anything aside from look cool? No.
Don't be a Diablo IV or a Destiny 2, you suck. Strive to be a Deep Rock Galactic or Sea of Thieves.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
I think this close mindedness can be cured through open communication. I also think this close mindedness is the root cause why so many of you don't understand where the GAAS revolution is coming from. This process is very easy to see if you're just looking at the right information.
Gamers can be plotted on a spectrum. I've found that most people who say "I hate multiplayer" can find an enjoyable multiplayer game at some point in their lives.
For example, many NeoGAFians seem to be open to co-op games over PvP centric games. The key in attracting players to a game is to find the mechanics they're drawn to.
I love being wrong. I seek it out. It's how I learn. No one in this thread has explained how the premise is flawed which makes me think I didn't create the right space for an honest dialogue. Too many people defending their trenches when it's Christmas and I'm trying to get a game of futbol going.
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Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
I.......DONT.....LIKE.......TO......PLAY.........WITH........OTHER.......PEOPLE!
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
Oh believe me, to me gaming is my me time and I don’t want some random fucker interfere with that.
Robochobo
Member
?
You could add every mechanic or feature that a game has to something else and there's no guarantee if a person who liked the former will like the latter though. Both single player and multi-player copycats have failed time and time again on that assumption.
Guilty_AI
Gold Member
You: "MP will replace SP and you'll like it"
Common citizen: "Why do you think MP will replace SP?"
You:
The artful mincer
Member
I don't think you have any problem reaching the kids with GAAS multiplayerI fear this thread has been a failure. The central theme of the OP has seemingly been missed by everyone and it has turned into a generic GAAS good vs GAAS bad thread.
I must reassess my strategy and do better in the future.
I reckon single player gamers are more likely to be older. That meme should read how do I reach these old farts!
Bernardougf
Member
Until today after 30 plus years of gaming in everything you can imagine and all kinds of games, I thought that I could muster a very clear idea of "I really really hate multiplayer games" but after your 100 words post l,thats It, Im wrong .. I love them, specially gaas. You did it.
Now do Open World Games .. I think I fuck hate them too ... change my mind oh wise one
Now do Open World Games .. I think I fuck hate them too ... change my mind oh wise one
Bernardougf
Member
Liver Cells can regenerate... brain cells ? Not so much...so .. this cause is lost
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Guilty_AI
Gold Member
Bernardougf
Member
Ill give you 100 points for effort my man ... well played.
theclaw135
Banned
In the past, the onus of developing new MP content was on the players. Doom, Quake, and their spawn grew organically. People had to design their own maps, upload them, promote them to the community.
GaaS is attaching payment to everything fans would already be doing, if allowed.
GaaS is attaching payment to everything fans would already be doing, if allowed.
yurinka
Member
The only MP game I play is Street Fighter. I have little time to play so it's hard to be connected at the sime time than my friends and also to have the same games. And other than SF, I don't competitive games. Same goes with GaaS, Street Fighter is the only one I care about.
I wouldn't care if all the other MP and GaaS games dissapear tomorrow. I normally play single player game, but I'm ok people liking or playing MP and GaaS.
We always will have SP games, MP and GaaS didn't kill SP in decades, won't do it now.
Jim became CEO in April 2019 and Hermen in November 2019.
List of Sony GaaS games released/to be released since then but already greenlighted before they became CEO, as it's the case of TLOP1 or the idea of making the PC efforts:
Sony GaaS like Little Big Planet, PS Home, Dreams, Destruction AllStars, Gran Turismo Sport, Gran Turismo 7, MLB or Firewall Ultra etc weren't on PC day one. In fact none of them has been released on PC.
As also happens with their single player games, many of the Sony GaaS will never be released on PC.
I wouldn't care if all the other MP and GaaS games dissapear tomorrow. I normally play single player game, but I'm ok people liking or playing MP and GaaS.
We always will have SP games, MP and GaaS didn't kill SP in decades, won't do it now.
Jim became CEO in April 2019 and Hermen in November 2019.
List of Sony GaaS games released/to be released since then but already greenlighted before they became CEO, as it's the case of TLOP1 or the idea of making the PC efforts:
- Dreams (known to be in delopment years before they became CEO)
- Destruction All Stars (released February 2021, must have been greenlighted earlier)
- Gran Turismo 7 (started after Gran Turismo Sport launch, which also is GaaS)
- Firewall Ultra (started after Firewall Zero Hour launch)
- Convallaria (if it's a GaaS -I think won't-, its first video was published March 2019)
- Helldivers 2 (started in 2015/2016 after Helldivers 1 launch)
- Concord (studio founded in 2018)
- Horizon Online (its game director Simon Larouche working on it since Feb. 2018 according to his LinkedIn)
- London Studio new IP (their previous game was released in May 2019 and before that they had 2 teams)
- Destiny 2 (already released when acquired)
- Marathon (already in development when acquired)
- Matter/new Bungie IP (already in development when acquired)
- Death Stranding 2 (started after DS1 launch)
- New open world IP by Bend, which was pitched by Bend after Days Gone (Sony/PS Studios/Jim/Hermen approved the first pitch that Bend sent them after Days Gone 1, which was this new IP, they never received a Days Gone 2 pitch because the Bend studio boss blocked the directors from sending it to Sony)
- Ghost of Tsushima 2 (started after GoT1 launch)
- Unannounced ND game(s) under development, at least one of them SP (started after TLOU2 launch, not sure when)
- Wolverine (started after Morales launch)
- Team Asobi's next game (a 3d action platformer with humor bigger than the Astros) and multiple prototypes)
- Deviation's game (studio founded in 2020)
- Housemarque next game (started after Returnal release)
- Fairgame$ (even if they started to work on it at Google, maybe started production at Sony)
- Horizon 3 (pretty likely started after HFW release)
- Insomniac game with MP (pretty likely started after Rift Apart)
- Next GoW, set in a new mythology (started after GoWR)
- Spider-Man 2 (started after Spider-Man 1, we don't know exactly when but if just after release, which is likely, wouldn't be greenlighted by them)
- TLOU Online (branched out from TLOU2 to become a standalone game in 2019, not sure if before or after Jim and Hermen became CEO)
- Horizon CoM (Guerrilla and Firesprite have more than two teams working at the same time since who knows when)
- Unannounced projects by Firesprite+Fabrik, since they have multiple games under development at the same time but we don't know since when and don't even know the amount of games under development that they have
Some like the Bungie games and maybe others yes (we have games announced for PS5 and PC, but I don't think we have any confirmation of non-Bungie Sony game being released on PC day one).
Sony GaaS like Little Big Planet, PS Home, Dreams, Destruction AllStars, Gran Turismo Sport, Gran Turismo 7, MLB or Firewall Ultra etc weren't on PC day one. In fact none of them has been released on PC.
As also happens with their single player games, many of the Sony GaaS will never be released on PC.
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Rhazer Fusion
Member
I see your point, but I know this industry. Gaming is still a business so generally whatever starts to make the most money for companies is what they will focus on. If GAAS starts to pull in ample, comparable or more revenue for Sony over single player games, I have a feeling that live service games will take top priority which will probably affect their other offerings. We’ll see though. Hopefully I’m wrong.
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HTK
Banned
Yeah but those predate their actual GaaS strategy or were already too far gone in dev before it.
{insert code here}
Member
GaaS is a trend that will eventually die off. It's a modern day derivative of the old 80's arcade games. Those games, like GaaS, were designed to suck every quarter you had and bring you back for more. I think it was a trend for a decade or so until console hardware evolved to bring it closer to the arcade experience. I don't know what the evolution will be that renders GaaS obsolete but it will happen at some point within the next few years. All the companies currently trying to enter that market (Sony) are probably going to be left holding the bag.
phant0m
Member
I don't fear the GaaS revolution for 2 reasons:
- I don't have to buy or participate in any of it (if I don't want to). The world has already created enough video games for me to be entertained until I die. My backlog is thousands of hours long, not even counting replaying "old classics".
- Related to the above, the emulation & retro/archival community around gaming is insanely awesome. The fact that I can play everything from NES to PS3 on my fucking Steam Deck blows my mind.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Just gonna post here because I think with knowing this, we can work out a cadence regarding 1P release schedule for GaaS and non-GaaS titles in dev over at Sony.
So then, if I'm reading this right then...
- Death Stranding 2 (started after DS1 launch)
- New open world IP by Bend, which was pitched by Bend after Days Gone (Sony/PS Studios/Jim/Hermen approved the first pitch that Bend sent them after Days Gone 1, which was this new IP, they never received a Days Gone 2 pitch because the Bend studio boss blocked the directors from sending it to Sony)
- Ghost of Tsushima 2 (started after GoT1 launch)
- Unannounced ND game(s) under development, at least one of them SP (started after TLOU2 launch, not sure when)
- Wolverine (started after Morales launch)
- Team Asobi's next game (a 3d action platformer with humor bigger than the Astros) and multiple prototypes)
- Deviation's game (studio founded in 2020)
- Housemarque next game (started after Returnal release)
- Fairgame$ (even if they started to work on it at Google, maybe started production at Sony)
- Horizon 3 (pretty likely started after HFW release)
- Insomniac game with MP (pretty likely started after Rift Apart)
- Next GoW, set in a new mythology (started after GoWR)
So basically 1P-wise nothing is really a lock for 2024 outside of Helldivers 2 and possibly Factions 2 (if it was a soft soft reboot). Both of which, are GaaS (or at least quasi-GaaS in Helldivers 2's case), 2025? Could be up to 5 games (DS2, Wolverine, Astrobot game, Insominac MP game, ND new IP), make that six with Factions 2. But there is still a good chance Factions 2, DS2 and Wolverine hit 2024.
2026 likely would have just two games (from what you listed), one of those being Insomniac's MP game delayed out of 2025 into 2026. So that's one GaaS, one traditional AAA game. 2027 could have a bit more between next GOW, Housemarque's game, and TLOU3, but GOW could slip into 2028. The one game out of that list that definitely feels will be 2028 is Horizon 3.
We can see the mix of traditional to GaaS titles in that (I did leave out some of the GaaS titles like Fairgame$ and Concord; they can release whenever), but I think most of the focus from a lot of us here would be on the non-GaaS titles. But there is something here at play not mentioned: the cadence of PC ports of previous game releases. IMO, if they (Sony) stick with the 2 year (or even less, you never know) porting window to PC, it will damage long-term value proposition of the console and make things very difficult for PS6 out of the gate unless that system has one hell of an innovative hardware hook where the hardware alone adds insane value proposition.
And, no, just "moah powah" will not do it, that is not the answer. PS+ isn't the answer, either, but that isn't hardware-focused. I also didn't focus on 3P games we know are being developed with Sony assisting in dev because, well, your list didn't mention them, either. Although, yes, those do help add value proposition to the console, just depends on what mix are traditional vs. GaaS. PC availability can still hurt console value proposition though depending on timing of availability, I feel we've kind of seen this play out with Final Fantasy XVI (in their case, mentioning the PC version right off the bat in marketing for the game on PS5, which was very stupid).
Are you saying the 10 or so GaaS they've been talking about are in addition to the ones in yurinka's post? Because I always thought it included at least some of those games, and even stuff like GT7 and MLB The Show.
If not, and that's in addition to those games and everything else in his post...biiiiig yikes
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Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
I'm not sure if you considered one very big differentiator...
The 80's arcade games forced every player to chuck in more quarters if they died and wanted to continue. This is highly annoying as it directly impedes gameplay.
Modern day GAAS are free for players and they only offer non gameplay effecting cosmetics for those who want to buy. This is far superior as it doesn't interfere with gameplay at all.
Something to consider when comparing Roblox to The Simpsons Arcade cabinet.
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yurinka
Member
It's difficult to estimate when games will be released. I'd add as reference the amount of years that the team (not the studio) needed for their previous game.Just gonna post here because I think with knowing this, we can work out a cadence regarding 1P release schedule for GaaS and non-GaaS titles in dev over at Sony.
So then, if I'm reading this right then...
Might release in 2024, but could slip into 2025 we'll see
- Death Stranding 2 (started after DS1 launch)
If AAA and larger in scope than DS2, 2025 at the earliest
- New open world IP by Bend, which was pitched by Bend after Days Gone (Sony/PS Studios/Jim/Hermen approved the first pitch that Bend sent them after Days Gone 1, which was this new IP, they never received a Days Gone 2 pitch because the Bend studio boss blocked the directors from sending it to Sony)
2026 at earliest
- Ghost of Tsushima 2 (started after GoT1 launch)
Well TLOU3 is definitely post-2026 if it just recently started development. The new IP could be next year or 2025, who knows.
- Unannounced ND game(s) under development, at least one of them SP (started after TLOU2 launch, not sure when)
Get the feeling this will slip 2024 and enter 2025
- Wolverine (started after Morales launch)
Could be 2024, could also be 2025. 50/50
- Team Asobi's next game (a 3d action platformer with humor bigger than the Astros) and multiple prototypes)
Probably still a ways off and also GaaS IIRC
- Deviation's game (studio founded in 2020)
If going to be even bigger than Returnal, and unless they expand in size significantly, 2027 at earliest
- Housemarque next game (started after Returnal release)
GaaS
- Fairgame$ (even if they started to work on it at Google, maybe started production at Sony)
2028 at earliest and probably either cross-gen game or PS6 exclusive
- Horizon 3 (pretty likely started after HFW release)
2025 at earliest, could be 2026
- Insomniac game with MP (pretty likely started after Rift Apart)
2027 at earliest, could be 2028 tho depending on how ambitious it is.
- Next GoW, set in a new mythology (started after GoWR)
So basically 1P-wise nothing is really a lock for 2024 outside of Helldivers 2 and possibly Factions 2 (if it was a soft soft reboot). Both of which, are GaaS (or at least quasi-GaaS in Helldivers 2's case), 2025? Could be up to 5 games (DS2, Wolverine, Astrobot game, Insominac MP game, ND new IP), make that six with Factions 2. But there is still a good chance Factions 2, DS2 and Wolverine hit 2024.
2026 likely would have just two games (from what you listed), one of those being Insomniac's MP game delayed out of 2025 into 2026. So that's one GaaS, one traditional AAA game. 2027 could have a bit more between next GOW, Housemarque's game, and TLOU3, but GOW could slip into 2028. The one game out of that list that definitely feels will be 2028 is Horizon 3.
We can see the mix of traditional to GaaS titles in that (I did leave out some of the GaaS titles like Fairgame$ and Concord; they can release whenever), but I think most of the focus from a lot of us here would be on the non-GaaS titles. But there is something here at play not mentioned: the cadence of PC ports of previous game releases. IMO, if they (Sony) stick with the 2 year (or even less, you never know) porting window to PC, it will damage long-term value proposition of the console and make things very difficult for PS6 out of the gate unless that system has one hell of an innovative hardware hook where the hardware alone adds insane value proposition.
And, no, just "moah powah" will not do it, that is not the answer. PS+ isn't the answer, either, but that isn't hardware-focused. I also didn't focus on 3P games we know are being developed with Sony assisting in dev because, well, your list didn't mention them, either. Although, yes, those do help add value proposition to the console, just depends on what mix are traditional vs. GaaS. PC availability can still hurt console value proposition though depending on timing of availability, I feel we've kind of seen this play out with Final Fantasy XVI (in their case, mentioning the PC version right off the bat in marketing for the game on PS5, which was very stupid).
Are you saying the 10 or so GaaS they've been talking about are in addition to the ones in yurinka's post? Because I always thought it included at least some of those games, and even stuff like GT7 and MLB The Show.
If not, and that's in addition to those games and everything else in his post...biiiiig yikes
Then add an extra year due to next gen jump.
Add an extra year if they had covid lockdown during development.
Add an extra time if devs said it will be bigger than the previous game or will add multiplayer.
Add an extra year if it's a new IP.
{insert code here}
Member
Yes the mechanics were completely different, but the end result is the same imo. Players can and are spending enormous amounts (relative) of money on a single game.
I'm just pointing out that we've been here before (gaming as a whole) and also making the more obvious point that the GaaS fad will end eventually.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Well, I think you're leaving out the fact that 80's arcade cabinets milked 100% of their players. They were designed so everyone that played had to feed the machine.
GAAS is designed in the opposite way. Everyone has full access to the game for free and you only buy cosmetics if you want.
It might be the worst comparison I've ever heard and I believe in that "universe collapses and grows anew an infinite number of times" theory.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
That's one way to look at it, sure.
Another way would be, arcade games were where you could realistically get all of what they had to offer, on a single credit, if you got good enough at them to 1CC. No content behind paywalls, just a single quarter...if you were good enough. This encouraged good gaming skills, which would benefit you playing other similar games down the road (or games in general). It also allowed game devs to make more complex arcade games with more challenge, pushing elements of game design with them.
If you want to see all the content in GaaS titles today, you HAVE to pay out for it. There's no way around that. You can't really rent most GaaS titles, either, they aren't made that way. The F2P stuff has no upfront cost, but you still have to pay a lot (or sink in TONS of hours where no matter your skill, you are artificially capped by timed progression and unlocks) to see all the content.
Even if you sucked at something like The Simpsons, you could probably see all the content on $5 worth a playthrough, maybe get good enough to 1CC it from that point on or cut it down to $1. And, well, you probably aren't going to play the game that many times over and over anyway. You can't leverage that type of play model at all with today's GaaS, not even.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
That's how I imagine Brie Larsons characters captor in Room would explain his logic.
"I trapped you in a small room with your child. You will live here forever but you can experience the whole room and that is what's best.
If I free you, you can only explore a small fraction of planet earth and the best thing in life is to 100% the environment you are in.
Also, slide 2 quarters under the door if you want to look around the room."
Y'all keep trying to bury F2P but it's clearly the most player friendly and you're saying awfully strange stuff in doing so.
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yurinka
Member
What that list shows is that most of the recent and future known GaaS predate them, so Jim and Hermen weren't the ones who created that strategy, they simply publicly mentioned it when these GaaS titles started to be announced so they explained the strategy behind them.
That also lists that most of the games greenlighted by Jim and Hermen aren't GaaS. Maybe just a coincidence because it was just what the studios pitched, or maybe just because they knew already had more than enough GaaS in the works and were better to slow down before starting more GaaS titles.
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thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Well, uh...that might make certain things look bleak(er) WRT traditional games. Or others, like Wolverine, it might suggest they do actually slip into 2025 ("slip" in that game's case only because we assume it's releasing in 2024 but 2025 might've been the target the whole time for all we know).
NGL that analogy made me break out with a laugh. Although, I haven't seen that film yet. Not because Brie Larson's in it (I don't have some weird hate for her over super-old stuff), just guess it's prob like too many other similar movies to bother.
I'm not saying F2P (which is just one form of GaaS, FWIW) isn't player-friendly; it certainly is. But hey, for a lot of people getting to access all a game's content is part of what it's all about, and that's where games like F2P get extremely expensive long-term. Or, you may be able to get that content through playing, but not based on your actual skill. Rather, based on how much sheer time you're willing to sink (time-grinding).
Basically, the F2P model, and the arcade model, both have their pros and cons.
yurinka
Member
As I remember Stellar Blade and I think Convallaria were announced for 2023, I assume may release in 2024. Helldivers 2, Concord, Rise of the Ronin have been announced for 2024.
Wolverine, Death Stranding 2 and Marathon may be 2024 too. Then there's unannounced games like the next Team Asobi game, Cory's new IP, London's new IP, Firesprite games which could be 2024 titles too. And unannounced 2nd party games who when don't know when can be released like the Ballistic Moon game, or who knows if the Sumo team who did Sackboy Adventures is also making a game.
Sony normally doesn't announce games that are 2 or more years away from release (with Wolverine as exception). So I think most the games announced before 2023 plus some more recent and other ones still unannounced will be released in 2024, and then the other announced ones, plus some unannounced would release in 2025.
I think Sony hasn't announced any game planned to be released in 2026 or beyond, because they don't announce games to be released 3+ years in the future, that's Microsoft territory.
Since they increased the cadence of PC releases their console hardware and software sales increased, and their console 1st party sales too. The console engagement, ARPU and game subs revenue also are in record levels. Absolutely no signs of negative effects in console, in any case the effect is the opposite.
The PC releases gave them huge extra revenue and profit and allows them reach many new fans. So they will continue increasing the amount of PC releases per year (if they have enough resources, because I think that at some point won't be able to increase it more), and some GaaS (at least the Bungie ones) will release in PC day one.
Yes, as always Sony also has a gazillion 3P exclusives coming both big and small, from all genres and types. Way more than 1P games.
But this time I only listed two types of Sony published games:
-Sony GaaS greenlighted before the Jimbo+Hermen era
-Sony games greenlighted during the Jimbo+Hermen era
If PC availability would hurt their main business, which is consoles, then they would stop making PC ports and also would sign again total exclusives instead of timed console exclusives.
If they do PC ports and sign timed console exclusives it's because it works better for them.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Laptop1991
Member
I'm a SP gamer and GAAS has been around since GTA online exploded in making money, and it's the reason i've bought a lot less games in the last 10 years than anytime before, the focus is on making money and not a good game experience to keep people paying, it's not that long since Redfall came out and bombed so my vote is no, always has been, always will be and i'm used to it now sadly, i won't buy them or play them and i'm not missing out either.
Guilty_AI
Gold Member
GAAS can be designed in a lot of different ways. The worst of the worst charge upfront, charge for extra content and throw in some gambling mechanics for safe measures. Others will force you to sink countless hours of boring grind if you don't want to pay to get the content you want.
The whole problem with your argument is that you keep using the least insidious scenario for GAAS (pay for some cosmetics stuff and thats it) even though everyone here knows many popular games of this type don't stop at that and abuse all sorts of monetization schemes, often to the detriment of the game. Meanwhile you extrapolate traditional models by only using $70 games with 20 hour content as examples, even though there are countless cheaper games out there - often cheaper than a single mtx - as well as sales, or many games at that price range (or lower) that give you far more than just 20 hours of gameplay value.
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Fake
Member
Yep, and if the rumors are correct, Bend Studios as well supporting those.
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