Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
Or games like Armored Core VI that gives me everything from get go and I can enjoy playing the game alone and completely offline….it’s currently my personal GOTY.
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Why Single Player Gamers shouldn't fear the GAAS Revolution...
- Thread starter Men_in_Boxes
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Bernardougf
Member
Get on multiplayer you dinassour freak ... nothing more fun then playing gen z characters with gen z and children populating the online community... isss fuunnnn
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
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{insert code here}
Member
Delusional take. You're basically saying GaaS is NOT designed to milk players and publishers because the game is free. Tag definitely checks out.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Weren't Sumo Digital acquired by another publisher a year or two ago? Sony could still be working with that team at Sumo, sure, but I guess it could also be another Aspyr situation, depends on who owns Sumo Digital these days.
I think the only unannounced games that could release in 2025 would be one or two we already kind of know exist but otherwise don't have any info on them, like ND's new IP or since you brought it up, Cory Balrog's new IP. Hopefully it wouldn't just be PC ports
FWIW Sony used to do it too, and there was 100% no problem with that because unlike Microsoft, Sony's actually delivered on the vast majority of their games announced many years ahead of release. The only gaffe they had 1P-wise, IMO, was Dreams. Not down to anything quality-wise, but because it took so damn long to actually release; they revealed it in 2013 but it didn't release until 2020. That was ridiculous.
The Last Guardian is another example I suppose, but still, that's only two games out of dozens. Sony earned the right to keep with that strategy, so it's disappointing they have ran away from it. Microsoft tried taking a page from Sony's book with showing a "big picture" roadmap many years ahead but never established a schedule of strong 1P releases prior to earn the benefit of trust.
Like I've said before, there just hasn't been enough time yet to say the current PC porting strategy has, or hasn't, had negative effects on long-term console and console sales/revenue. IMO, even things like putting 1P AAA games into PS+ after only a year of B2P sales (this is what they did with HFW) could have adverse, negative effects long-term if that becomes a regular thing.
I don't think Sony need to do risky ports to PC of new or newish 1P traditional games that could weaken the value proposition of console B2P sales of that software (or console sales themselves), in order to increase profits off software. The GaaS going Day 1 on console & PC should in theory be enough.
No, they didn't give them quite the huge revenue & profit you're thinking, because a lot of that came from Destiny 2...a game Sony got through acquiring Bungie. The revenue they brought in FY 2022 was enough for maybe 1 big AAA game, but the actual profit was less, and that's not likely going to be used for 1 big AAA so much as split up funding current games.
Or, that plus some used to cover the Bungie acquisition costs, or pump R&D into PlayStation 6. All necessary things, and good things, but just goes to show the annual PC revenue wouldn't be enough to really fund another big AAA game if it stays at the pace it was FY '22.
About the 3P exclusives, well that much is always a sure thing. I'm just curious how well that strategy holds going forward in the face of, say, a Nintendo getting a lot more 3P support since they could have a system that's actual viable on a technical level. Or (hopefully not), Microsoft looking to gobble up more 3P publishers to choke them off from working with Sony independently under the ruse of being "competitive".
Hey, I guess we're going to see if Sony have made a change of exactly that internally, by the time the new SIE CEO is announced. The full/timed console exclusives stuff with 3P is something not fully in their control, it'd depend on goals of the 3P publisher. With devs, it's easier to negotiate.
But with 1P titles? I'm 100% expecting some significant changes to plans with porting the 1P traditional titles over. As in, either that stops or the windows increase significantly between versions. They could still leverage PC for GaaS titles though and remaster compilations of older releases, which would be smart business.
Yoboman
Member
Every dev with a successful GAAS had become duller and more derivative because of it. Great producers of single player games like Valve, Bungie, Epic, Rockstar... now stuck in the never ending cycle of producing skins and expansion packs for a decade
It's like getting Spieldberg and Scorcese making reality TV
It's like getting Spieldberg and Scorcese making reality TV
Felessan
Member
And at each iteration gaas got a lot of ground. In previous cycle gaas killed mobile paid games - there was a time when paying for a game on mobile was normal, angry birds was 1$ game. And the one before it - decimated heavily PC market, killed p2p MMO and grabbed 80-90% market share as result. AAA gaming on PC stagnated for a decade and it still somewhat secondary to consoles in terms on developers priorities.
But this player base is much bigger - fortnight has more players than all consoles combined. And it's actually growing at the expense of SP, because younger generations are more inclined to start off gaas (mobile) title, which will affect distribution of preferencies in 10 years future.
hyperbertha
Member
You really don't understand? After stellar singleplayer studios like rocksteady, eidos montreal and arkane wasted so many years on trash gaas?
Jigsaah
Member
You really don't understand. Just because you think all GaaS games are trash doesn't mean everyone does. There can be good GaaS games if done right. Destiny was that, at first. Activision devolved it into trash, then Bungie doubled down on it after they bought themselves out. Regardless, it didn't begin that way. Warframe was GaaS from it's launch, I've never had a problem with it because you can earn everything in game except for the cosmetic stuff. Even some of that stuff is eventually given away for free. The best part about it is with enough effort, you can earn items in game that others will buy for premium currency. So there's options other than paying out of your own pocket even for the MTX.
Smite is GaaS through and through, but it's all cosmetic. Path of Exile is GaaS as fuck, all cosmetic MTX. Just because a few studios can't seem to get the formula right, doesn't mean GaaS as a whole is bad.
Soodanim
Member
When the the apocalypse has come and all that is left is GAAS, there will be a need to simply offer a product instead of a subscription in order to stand out from the mindless masses of subscription models.
And on that day, single player will be born again.
But I'll still be working through my backlog so the apocalypse won't affect me.
And on that day, single player will be born again.
But I'll still be working through my backlog so the apocalypse won't affect me.
IDKFA
I am Become Bilbo Baggins
That's my point. Fortnite is a huge hit and has a loyal player base. As a GaaS title it works perfectly. However, all of those Fortnite players dedicate their free time to Fortnite and that is what other GaaS titles have to compete with.
Not every game can be a live service smash hit like Fortnite. A vast majority will be lost to the void because they can't pull in the same numbers. A lot of players will stick to what they know or what they're friends are playing.
That's why GaaS will never replace single player games. They'll both continue to coexist.
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
Knowing the amounts is irrelevant.
The fact that the SP proportion hasn't increased much from 2019 compared to GaaS is not the full picture. You have to take into account that some of Sony's major SP studios are also working on GaaS games alongside their next SP projects, ND + GG. So if those big AAA SP studios have full teams also working on GaaS games, and yet Sony's SP investment total still increased from 2019, it shows there's a significant increase in traditional SP game investment.
Regardless, SP investment doesn't even need to grow. It just shouldn't shrink. And all this is not even counting Sony's investment in 3rd party exclusives (which would not have been covered by the graph) as well as future acquisitions.
Elder Legend
Banned
We might have to consultFrom my point of view, this is how gaas lovers look like as they’re slowly getting choked and eaten away.
Go on, find your own happiness as long as it doesn’t affect my happiness. Problem is, it does. gaas practices are slowly trickling down to SP games.
kanjobazooie
this obviously looks like his doing.indigoSociety
Member
TLDR
YeulEmeralda
Linux User
Wait when was Destiny a single player game?
FunkMiller
Member
Nobody hates multiplayer. That’s been around for many years.
GaaS, on the other hand, is greed fuelled, predatory shit that only exists to fleece gamers.
People have Stockholm syndromed their way into just accepting that the two are the same thing by the gaming companies.
GaaS, on the other hand, is greed fuelled, predatory shit that only exists to fleece gamers.
People have Stockholm syndromed their way into just accepting that the two are the same thing by the gaming companies.
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STARSBarry
Gold Member
All I have seen is GaaS is destroy beloved franchises and provide nothing of value for the consumer in return.
People will say "constant updates" but as a PC Gamer we used to get those anyway long before GaaS. Its only console gamers who think paying for "map packs" was normal who think this is new and an improvement. And this only applies to a handful of titles that make it, the rest that don't are quickly abandoned and that's the overwhelming majority of GaaS games.
Games that could have been good if they where not weighed down by being GaaS, but we will never know because their dead and not worth playing chasing that 1% chance they make it big.
Fuck GaaS it ruined Halo.
People will say "constant updates" but as a PC Gamer we used to get those anyway long before GaaS. Its only console gamers who think paying for "map packs" was normal who think this is new and an improvement. And this only applies to a handful of titles that make it, the rest that don't are quickly abandoned and that's the overwhelming majority of GaaS games.
Games that could have been good if they where not weighed down by being GaaS, but we will never know because their dead and not worth playing chasing that 1% chance they make it big.
Fuck GaaS it ruined Halo.
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Felessan
Member
They all compete for the same ultimate resource - time. And competition for it always will be a thing - be it gaas, MP or even SP.
If you play CoD, you don't play BF or Destiny (you can, but you'll need to commit extra time to gaming, like some people play several gaas at once). If you have 100 hours a year of available "playtime" you can squeeze 2 or 3 games in it, this means that every game will be a competitor for a slot.
Time always will be an issue - if you play heavy MP like CoD or FIFA, you have less time for SP. If you play gaas - you have less time for MP and SP games. Less time - less incentive to buy - less incentive to make games. This is how non-gaas games were culled on PC and died on mobile.
Not every game will be Fortnite as this market is much more competitive than traditional SP and MP as it has much more money and profit margins. But as it gets more attention it gets more developers, genre diversification, novel ideas etc. As market matures it becomes less and less king of the hill situation. 10 years ago top 10 gaas earned 90% of revenue, now it's top 100. There are already quite a lot of games that earns 300-500 mil a year, that is seems small compared to Fortnite or Genshin, but compared to traditional gaming market they are very successful games.
I agree that no matter what SP, MP and gaas will still be there, but the actual landscape might be fundamentally different. Who would thought in the late 90's that PC would have close to zero PC exclusive AAA games. And would turn out to be platform for indies and secondary platform for console releases.
Bernardougf
Member
In some years when the reality sets in ... lets all remember that sony and Jim were very clear about what they are doing. You are just choosing to ignore it. ..
Or maybe not... maybe Jimbo is gone for some reason we dont know and things are gonna change again.
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But if sony is chasing GaaS I can see why.. I grew up playing atari and then Mario and Sonic ... my son and his friends play only gaas/mp and nothing else... eventually he will pick up something easy to play on switch or something but is very rarely. But he dosent have any patience to learn to play SP less brain dead games. Gaas/MP are easy to play. And the competitive nature of gaas also fuels them.
Or maybe not... maybe Jimbo is gone for some reason we dont know and things are gonna change again.
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But if sony is chasing GaaS I can see why.. I grew up playing atari and then Mario and Sonic ... my son and his friends play only gaas/mp and nothing else... eventually he will pick up something easy to play on switch or something but is very rarely. But he dosent have any patience to learn to play SP less brain dead games. Gaas/MP are easy to play. And the competitive nature of gaas also fuels them.
MrPaul
Neo Member
You will still be able to play the first 10 fps games in 30 years thanks to the magic of emulation, but the future of many GaaS titles is uncertain. Also, while a human player may provide a better experience than an NPC, in terms of interaction, it can just as easily be game breaking or annoying. There are many players who's interactions I could have done without in my experience. A particularly obnoxious crew in Sea of Thieves comes to mind; rather than deal with random kids joining my crew only to set my boat aflame, or have to join multiple games in order to find a workable crew, I end up solo-slooping that multiplayer game for the most part.
While Call of Duty Black Ops 2 is still functional; finding a group to play with that are able to communicate is difficult, and being the only one able to relay information verbally in the game is quite limiting. Many times I just have to accept we are playing without any strategy whatsoever and it's every player for themselves. My point is that playing with human players is not always a better experience.
When I launch a single player title, I am more likely to have the experience I anticipate. I have more control over that experience. There is value to both the single and multiplayer developments; but the games as a service model seems more likely to become unplayable in future, where as before this, many titles would allow servers to be hosted by the players themselves. So since they will probably become unplayable at some point, it is just a hopefully long term rental of the content.
While Call of Duty Black Ops 2 is still functional; finding a group to play with that are able to communicate is difficult, and being the only one able to relay information verbally in the game is quite limiting. Many times I just have to accept we are playing without any strategy whatsoever and it's every player for themselves. My point is that playing with human players is not always a better experience.
When I launch a single player title, I am more likely to have the experience I anticipate. I have more control over that experience. There is value to both the single and multiplayer developments; but the games as a service model seems more likely to become unplayable in future, where as before this, many titles would allow servers to be hosted by the players themselves. So since they will probably become unplayable at some point, it is just a hopefully long term rental of the content.
Portugeezer
Member
I ain't worried, if the AAA industry wants to implode on itself then so be it. There's only a finite amount of time a person can invest in online shit.
Bernardougf
Member
deriks
4-Time GIF/Meme God
We don't fear GaaS itself, but the fact that a single player campaign can be turned into as GaaS
Remember Arkham games? Those are great. Then came Gothan Knights, they announce as a GaaS and everything turned into shit and the game was dead at launch. Avengers was maybe even worse, but I guess that was more of a game that was released too late for the Marvel guys
Remember Arkham games? Those are great. Then came Gothan Knights, they announce as a GaaS and everything turned into shit and the game was dead at launch. Avengers was maybe even worse, but I guess that was more of a game that was released too late for the Marvel guys
Kokoloko85
Member
Last 12 months? Roughly: God of War Ragnarok, TLOU1 Remake and soon Spiderman 2…
Where are all these Gaas games Sony is releasing? HellDivers 2?
Theres also Wolverine, Rise of Ronin, Death Stranding 2 coming. And we know Ghost of Tsushima 2 will eventually come
Killjoy-NL
Banned
I don't get the hate for GaaS like Fortnite.
It's a great and fun game (even though BR becomes stales rather fast imo), it's free and microtransactions are optional.
If they rip you off, nobody but you is to blame.
They can be great entertainment in between major releases, because SP-games can only entertain you so much. (talking about Sony's 1st party output primarily)
That's the whole approach that's being taken.
The uproar seems so petty, especially since it's just a vocal minority that doesn't even get their toys taken away.
They lose nothing, others get more options to play, so what exactly is the issue?
It's a great and fun game (even though BR becomes stales rather fast imo), it's free and microtransactions are optional.
If they rip you off, nobody but you is to blame.
They can be great entertainment in between major releases, because SP-games can only entertain you so much. (talking about Sony's 1st party output primarily)
That's the whole approach that's being taken.
The uproar seems so petty, especially since it's just a vocal minority that doesn't even get their toys taken away.
They lose nothing, others get more options to play, so what exactly is the issue?
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StueyDuck
Member
Imagine that guy thinking South Africans don't know nature
. Hy is 'n bietjie verlore in sy kopOnly on gaf.
Some okes need a Moerse poesklap
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Plenty of things im interested in and can do with my increased rare free time. I’ve always loved gaming but have zero interest in gaas. If that’s the way things go, I’ll simply take my money/time elsewhere. No sweat off my back.
Given the success of TotK, BG3, Elden Ring and Cyberpunk, I’m not too worried though.
Given the success of TotK, BG3, Elden Ring and Cyberpunk, I’m not too worried though.
Jigsaah
Member
ok you apparently did not follow the logic of the first post of mine you responded to. I'm talking about both single player and multiplayer games. Let's just table this until you've actually understood what I'm arguing.
I'd actually disagree. GaaS is massively more popular than any other model - yes, but not necessarily at expense of any of them.
Paid mobile games still exist, and are bigger than they were in 2010 - they just grew a lot slower than F2P did.
I also don't really buy the PC market thing - it's bigger now than it ever was, even for non service games, though just like mobile - the segment grew more slowly than GaaS did, but that's a given. AAA gaming on PC was never about exclusives - by the time the AAA model actually became a thing, there was like a handful of studios even capable of attempting an AAA PC exclusive (and even fewer of them did). Consoles dominated that space basically the entire time.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Fortnite is simultaneously a bad game and a game that no one will leave so stop making new GAAS titles...the logic of many GAAS critics.
PeteBull
Member
Thats exactly how it is, sony has tons of studios/talent and actually puts a lot of care into managing them, but something gotta give, its either vr games, AAA singleplayer games, or GAAS, cant have focus on all 3, till now it was singleplayer games, but who knows how it will look in the future, hopefully GAAS shit keeps on bombing hard so devs and especially pubs will stop looking at it like at mithical cash cow, like back in WoWs prime they looked at mmo genre in the same way, w/o realising its not the genre that makes money, but actual high quality of a game.
Just need fortnite to die down and hopefully no more GAAS games are big comercial cussess so that forbidden poisonous fruit doesnt tempt devs/pubs anymore.
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Guilty_AI
Member
Being popular and being bad aren't mutually exclusive you know
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
leonardo23
Neo Member
When i see what GAAS is, I immediately thought about Tree of Savior. Or any mmo, basically. Its like they created another word for a almost 3 decades concept.
hyperbertha
Member
Do you have reading comprehension issues? Gaas = trash wasn't the point I was addressing. You said there is no reason to fear gaas taking over the industry, when I illustrated some pretty good reasons. Want more examples? Konami, bungie, rocktar, epic games, valve. All single player catering studios that have divested resources mostly to gaas.
Killjoy-NL
Banned
What's bad about fortnite as a game?
Killjoy-NL
Banned
That's because most GaaS games are catered towards social gaming.
Games like Fortnite, Destiny and GTAV are immensely popular due to their social aspects.
It's basically the modern version of couch co-op, except you're not physically together.
It almost seems like the biggest difference between those who like GaaS (or don't mind it) and those who don't is their stance on social gaming.
But it's the progression of gaming due to the internet.
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Guilty_AI
Member
First of all, why should i care about the opinion of that guy?
Most of the skill required for competition comes from the building mechanics, and no, how fast you can build an eiffel tower when you meet another player does not constitute as fun. Thats without mentioning the jarring style of the game where you can suddenly have Master Chief riding a truck with Thanos. Maybe 12 yo will find that cool but for me it just takes me out of the game.
Killjoy-NL
Banned
Play Zero Build.
Bolded doesn't even have anything to do with the quality of the game.
And while Fortnite gets boring real fast (as does any BR-game), it isn't a bad game in any way.
Guilty_AI
Member
So it can go from a BR with annoying mechanics to a boring one? No thanks.
Its an important element for many people.
A MP game that gets boring fast is not a good MP game.
Killjoy-NL
Banned
The game just isn't for you.
Yes, but I was talking about the quality of the game.
This is highly subjective.
And for the record, I don't play BR games and think they're all boring. No exceptions.
I just think a certain group of gamers have an irrational disliking towards GaaS.
Guilty_AI
Member
I have no problem with GaaS, i do have a problem with how some (most really) are executed. Fortnite in particular is a bad game whose main appeal comes from social elements, and whose whole monetization is based around dark design and fomo. Its not the worst offender but its certainly still an offender.
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