Well, again I used sexual experimentation at puberty as an example. This isn't something I did myself, but I know it is supposedly common. I can see how children might experiment with each other simply for the fact that they are sexually curious. I am not really talking about anal sex, but rather other sexual experimentation.
Why Straight Men Have Sex With Each Other
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Well, again I used sexual experimentation at puberty as an example. This isn't something I did myself, but I know it is supposedly common. I can see how children might experiment with each other simply for the fact that they are sexually curious. I am not really talking about anal sex, but rather other sexual experimentation.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
I guess for a lot of people (like myself, admittedly), it's hard to envision having sex with people you aren't sexually attracted to at all. I guess I can see how someone who viewed it more utilitarian or even mechanical could do it, but I'd always default to masturbation when I get the itch.
Hey, I'm hard straight so I understand what Jobbs is trying to express here.
People have been explaining it to you repeatedly as far as I can tell. Are you actually reading anything?
This right here is a fundamental flaw within the human condition. We like order, we like reason, and we will irrationally apply order to an irrational, wholly chaotic reality in order for it to make sense to us and appear "reasonable".
Reality exists, and has existed for trillions of years before we had words to describe it. Why would some concepts of reality have to strictly be able to conform to a spoken word to describe it?
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
Here's a neat diagram that's not limited by hetero/homo. I'm sure it's not in anyway complete, but more comprehensive than most. I personally identify as gynephilic.
I knew NBC were liberal, but this is a bit too far...
English isn't my first language, so maybe "aversion" is a better term.
But you're right, aversion isn't a measurement for sexuality.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Surprised this hasn't been posted yet-
Seriously though, I believe this story. Sexuality has always been a fluid thing, and to some it it also a power thing. I mean, it's common knowledge that in ancient times(Roman times IIRC) that it was common for men to sleep with other men, or homosexuality being used in ancient miltary as a morale booster of sorts.
I don't have a problem with it, personality. I consider myself an omnisexual. If I had a chance to make sweet sweet love to Freddy Mercury, I would. Only him though.
Seriously though, I believe this story. Sexuality has always been a fluid thing, and to some it it also a power thing. I mean, it's common knowledge that in ancient times(Roman times IIRC) that it was common for men to sleep with other men, or homosexuality being used in ancient miltary as a morale booster of sorts.
I don't have a problem with it, personality. I consider myself an omnisexual. If I had a chance to make sweet sweet love to Freddy Mercury, I would. Only him though.
I'm going to try using a faulty analogy here...
You ever see someone have issue with how the terms "atheist" and "agnostic" are applied? This discussion is not all that dissimilar.
"An agnostic is an atheist without balls!"
"To be atheist, you have to be close-minded, because you're pretending you know that there is no God!"
In reality, it's not that simple. At the core of atheism is an absence of belief, and at the core of agnosticism is an absence of knowledge. How people revolve around the respective core they identify with is deeply personal, and sometimes it can seem like there's some overlap. To capture some of the variations of belief, you see people come up with terms like "strong atheism." Similarly, you see people come up with terms like "heteroflexible" to describe men/women who self-identify as straight, yet are sexually fluid enough to occasionally find themselves engaging in homoerotic activities.
But in the end, labels are usually an unproductive way to capture the complexity of the human condition. You long for a label that describes the way you specifically self-identify, that somehow manages to perfectly distinguish you from anyone and everyone who wavers from your self-identity in some way, and you're far from alone in looking for such a label. The reality is you're never going to find it, because labels are inherently social constructs, and will always be vulnerable to deconstruction. You're going to have to be happy with your personal sense of who you are.
edit: also this ^
I'm not trying to condescend, I meant "honey" affectionately. I appreciate you're making an effort to understand this thing and it looks like you're right on the edge of getting there.
Why does having sex have to include attraction at all?
"Heterosexuality" doesn't exist. It's not a thing. There's no test for it. If a "straight" man put his dick through a glory hole he wouldn't *not* get off if a dude was blowing him. "Heterosexual" is a label we apply to broadly capture a range of behaviors and experiences and phenomenon. But a label at best is an approximation, it's not the truth of someone's soul: understanding someone's sexuality is going to take a lot more than one word.
It's worth, therefore, expanding the space around these words. Maybe some men would be more open to fulfilling, enjoyable experiences having sex with men if they weren't worried whether that "makes them" gay.
Some sex is intimate and emotional and some is mechanical and some is about power etc etc. we can imagine men who date women romantically, intend to marry and raise a family with a woman, but sometimes he just needs to get his rocks off and a BJ is better than masturbating alone to porn. The identity you choose to inhabit doesn't have to gel totally with the sex you have. There's nothing dissonant about a "straight" man having "gay" sex. Constructed labels are expedient, they're not binding.
I'm not trying to condescend, I meant "honey" affectionately. I appreciate you're making an effort to understand this thing and it looks like you're right on the edge of getting there.
Why does having sex have to include attraction at all?
"Heterosexuality" doesn't exist. It's not a thing. There's no test for it. If a "straight" man put his dick through a glory hole he wouldn't *not* get off if a dude was blowing him. "Heterosexual" is a label we apply to broadly capture a range of behaviors and experiences and phenomenon. But a label at best is an approximation, it's not the truth of someone's soul: understanding someone's sexuality is going to take a lot more than one word.
It's worth, therefore, expanding the space around these words. Maybe some men would be more open to fulfilling, enjoyable experiences having sex with men if they weren't worried whether that "makes them" gay.
Some sex is intimate and emotional and some is mechanical and some is about power etc etc. we can imagine men who date women romantically, intend to marry and raise a family with a woman, but sometimes he just needs to get his rocks off and a BJ is better than masturbating alone to porn. The identity you choose to inhabit doesn't have to gel totally with the sex you have. There's nothing dissonant about a "straight" man having "gay" sex. Constructed labels are expedient, they're not binding.
And_Gignac
Member
Aeriscloud
Banned
So far :
Heterosexual Male Gaf is having more gay sex than half of gay Gaf, THE FUCK?
Also, this isn't fair!
Humans like categorical organizational structures; they can be useful for conveying information quickly but can also lead to the conflation of something defined under a label with the prototypic image of what that label defines.
This is a middle ground to express relevant information quickly without losing a lot of subtle detail, or worse implying a nontypical technical member of a category is exactly like a typical member of a category, which would be very misleading.
Captain Europe
Member
That number you just made up on the spot is very convincing, also, what's your point?
I was just stating that there are straight men out there who have a thing for penises on female bodies. No, this doesnt make them gay, in case you're going to argue that.
One of my friends is straight but makes out with dudes on the odd occasion and says he's sucked a dick or two.
He's certainly not gay and I wouldn't even call him bi. Bisexuality implies some sort of 50/50 or even 60/40 balance. If you're like 90% attracted to women but still find the odd dude here and there that you're into, you're still straight. You're also human, like most people.
I have pretended to be bi by talking about dudes I think are attractive when around certain girl friends because I think they're aroused by the fantasy, just like how my fiancée talks about wanting to do things to female celebs because she knows I like hearing about it. Circumstances, surroundings and relationships have an effect on sexuality. It's just not a black and white thing.
He's certainly not gay and I wouldn't even call him bi. Bisexuality implies some sort of 50/50 or even 60/40 balance. If you're like 90% attracted to women but still find the odd dude here and there that you're into, you're still straight. You're also human, like most people.
I have pretended to be bi by talking about dudes I think are attractive when around certain girl friends because I think they're aroused by the fantasy, just like how my fiancée talks about wanting to do things to female celebs because she knows I like hearing about it. Circumstances, surroundings and relationships have an effect on sexuality. It's just not a black and white thing.
Aeriscloud
Banned
Nah for sure, I get it. I wouldn't really disdain anyone for thinking sexuality is rigid especially if that's been their personal experience with it. As long as you're not trying to impose that understanding it's harmless. I think shifting into the other place, where we recognize and internalize the imprecision of the language, is better.
Like I'm not going to reject or deny your "hard-straightness". It's just that when I read it in my mind I append a "... so far".
>.>
<.<
JinjoUnchained
Member
If that's your take away from my response, then you're reading in a conclusion that wasn't there. Of course there are people you would call bi, meaning at any time they might be attracted to people of either sex.
There are also people that are attracted to one sex or the other, but due to circumstances, may decide to mix it up and do something different. Maybe they were in the mood for some strange (or what they would normally consider "strange")?
The OP is trying to make a distinction between the person in my first paragraph vs the one in the second. Specifically, talking about guys who are like "eh, we're here, it feels good, let's rub one out". The point being that much of our behavior is random, impulsive, and not some greater expression of deep-seated identity. Do you have an objection to that idea?
Messofanego
Banned
Thought you were always a conservative since first time I read posts from you on here, especially in controversial threads. You've never come off as a liberal imo.
...Scatter...
Banned
Right. There is always simply a possibility that a large number of guys who categorise themselves as 'straight', never even realised they were bisexual, or that they could be.
So men not only is self-identifying as straight immediately in doubt, but you can't even identify with a political ideology without suspicion here :lol
Dude is liberal, I often find myself in the same boat as Dave. I often find myself ranting to conservative guys I know about obnoxious behavior from people on my own side, politically speaking.
Paracelsus
Member
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
The last point she makes about the flaws in the "born this way" narrative and the allure of queerness/queer culture for straight men is genuinely interesting, but many of her points are WAAAAAYYYY overthought and making the typical feminist/postmodernist mistake of imbuing complex sociopolitical motives into what are basically idiosyncratic experiences. And her denial of biology as being basically at the root of what drives most sexual behavior is, well, silly, again demonstrating that wrongheaded postmodern conviction that there really is no objectivity, that everything is a mere trick of language and belief. The vast majority of straight-identifying men will never seek out homosexual contact in their whole life, and will have little to no desire to do so. Those that do may simply be closeted bisexuals or homosexuals, i.e. have genuine romantic and/or sexual attraction to other men, but of the rest, each will have their own personal cocktail of wherefores underlying their behavior. To try and encompass it in some overarching jargony idea of "performing heterosexuality" or whatnot is just replacing one dogma with another, really.
Haha, you wish buddy.
But yeah, I'm not trying to argue that sexuality is a rigid construct, but the tone of the conversation is shifting to "there's no such thing as heterosexuality" which is just as asinine as arguing that there is only heterosexuality and.....deviance?
If I fuck a dude in the future I'll give you all the deets.
Captain Europe
Member
They are heterosexual, bi maybe if they are also attracted to the male aesthetic. Sexuality isn't just about genitals, I'm gay and a guy with a vagina is no dealbreaker for me, and no that doesn't make me straight or bi.
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
It was a joke based on the similarity to the logo, but whatever.
Funkybee12
Member
To me, this pseudo-author is just another hipster. Full of confusion,bullshit theory who doesn't make any sense at all in every possible explanation she might come up with.She's not talking about some kind of incident or rape, the shower soap scenario at prison etc. She says 'there are men screwing up other men whenever the hell they feel like BUT they love women, marry women, have their own families, but still suck dick here n there..AND they're straight'.
It's like being gay, marrying another gay, living with him & telling people u're straight.
Seriously?
GTFO & Congrats on the attention whoring.
It's like being gay, marrying another gay, living with him & telling people u're straight.
Seriously?
GTFO & Congrats on the attention whoring.
And_Gignac
Member
Nope. Straight people can get sexually aroused by their same sex during certain, specific situations. Just like gay guys can get aroused by females in the same way. It isnt rocket science.
Why are some straight guys being so defensive about this? Is not like you will be less of a "man" if this reality exists. You could argue is totally the opposite, going by our cultural heritage of Greece and early Rome.
Kinsey: Just another hipster.
SteveWinwood
Member
ive never wanted to have sex with a man
It isn't rocket science, it's bisexuality. Bisexuality doesn't mean you're attracted in equal amount and equal frequency to both genders, it just means you can be attracted to either gender. That's what bisexuality is.
The universe is once again insane. I think we're going in circles, though, I just won't be able to understand this.
I'd say your friend is bi, because he enjoys sex with women (maybe even predominantly) and men. I mean, there's a word for that! It's not about using unnecessary labels. IMO of course.
What's even a straight guy if desiring sex with men doesn't make you bi?
hahaha okay i didn't realize that, CLEVER
debates on prescriptivism are so dry they actually rob me of my ability to process humor, help
You Know Nothing
Member
Fuck it, I wanted to avatar quote. I don't care how accurate it is.
But bisexual is a really nebulous term. What if you've only felt attraction to the same sex once in your entire life? Are you irrevocably bisexual? What if you generally feel attraction to the opposite sex as opposed to the same sex? Bisexual implies equal attraction to both sexes and that simply isn't the case for the most part.
FortuneFaded
Member
Yet. You've never met me.
No, "bisexual" doesn't mean any of that. You can be bi and prefer men or women, you can be bi and desire mostly either genre most of the time.
I feel like people are just irrationally afraid of that term - probably because most people know so little about bisexuality.
Yeah, maybe. Perhaps there could be a specific term for each level on the Kinsey Scale, or one of the other scales mentioned on that page (i.e. Klein, Storm, or one of the other ones).
Really? I don't see what the big deal is. The fluidity of sexuality has become less of a taboo and we're developing a cultural inventory in response to that. There's bound to be some flux and confusion as we build the social toolkit.
The main point of contention seems to be that your definition of "bisexual" is too wide, and covers too many diverse behaviours to be practically useful. Demanding complete purity in order to attain the status of "gay" or "straight" strikes me as pedantry at best, bigotry at worst.
It's not being defensive, it's about not changing definitions and labels just because you feel like it.
A straight person is someone who is only attracted to their opposite gender, and only engages in sexual activity with that gender. Unless of course the extent of activity with the opposite sex is a kiss as a dare or something outlier like that. Or something situational like having a threesome where the third addition is another guy. There is no such thing as a straight person who is attracted to, and engages in sexual conduct with the same sex, quite the contrary, there is a predefined term to describe such sexuality, and that is being bisexual. Being bisexual doesn't mean you have to be equally attracted to both men and women, just that you are or can be, in any capacity, attracted to both genders. These definitions exist for a reason.
titiklabingapat
Member
Anyway to seriously respond to the topic: homosexuality, bisexuality and heterosexuality is a wholly contemporary western concept. Other cultures at different points in time are either more fluid with their definitions or are more diverse when it comes to sexuality regardless of gender or genders involved and many of you are just looking at it from that very narrow definition. That's all that needs to be said, really.
FortuneFaded
Member
Denial is not healthy. Be true to yourself.
And_Gignac
Member
The desire for both sexes has to be persistent in order to be a bisexual, it doesnt matter if you have more or less desire at certain point of life towards certain gender. The desire for your same sex could be minimal while dating a woman, but it is still persistent, and backwards.
Situational, ocasional, contextual sex with the same sex can be achieved while being straight.
Sex, at the end of the day, has a lot to do with many things other than "sex" itself, like power relations or emotional contexts. So I really dont see why a guy who enjoys once and then to have sexual relief with his same sex has to be stripped of his straight identity.
Necromanti
Member
I am officially confused now.
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