StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Because you won't need an optical drive. And running it off a tiny cartridge/chip you don't have to install (or the entire game). Switch games seem to run fine right off the chip.
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Why the PlayStation 5 still using Bluray will make most of its revealed specs useless and void, and why they should ditch it for alternatives.
- Thread starter Freedom Gate Co.
- Start date
Zekra Dezivad
Member
Toshiba, is that you?
Negotiator
Member
Switch owners complain all the time (and rightly so) about the notorious cartridge tax.
Why would you want to bring that headache to the PS5 ecosystem?
Blu-Ray + SSD combo will be fine.
Grinchy
Banned
Maybe if you’re ok with slow load times and DEATH.
SonGoku
Member
Yes you do, if you want to take advantage of SSD speeds, you absolutely must install.
Negotiator
Member
They can offer faster-than-SSD cartridges, buuuut they will cost $200 each.
Sounds pretty tempting, right? Just like the good ol' Neo Geo days!
Pimpbaa
Member
Switch games run fine off SD cards because of the last gen like assets. They would be a massive bottleneck on next gen systems. NVMe ssds offer much much faster transfer rates and able to handle many concurrent requests for data. So it makes zero sense to use SD for either running games off them or as a physical delivery system.
edit: plus those super high end SD cards with ssd like speeds are ridiculously expensive.
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Ar¢tos
Member
Except you have to download half or 2/3rds of the game to actually run the full game. On ps5 that would mean downloading it and running it from the hdd. We know Sony would skimp on the cartridges sizes, they did with the vita the whole time.
20cent
Banned
No BR drive still allows backward compatibility... if you bought the digital version of the games you own.
DESTROYA
Member
I know that but the majority of people that own a PS4 still buy physical discs and haven’t gone fully digital yet, BR drive makes sense, the OP’s post does not.
somerset
Member
Really what is this utter utter *nonsense*. Have IQs fallen 80 points since I've been away- or is MS sponsored FUD against the 'opposition' now going to be a regular part of this forum?
The main reason to include a BR player is because it costs essentially *nothing* yet adds value for a ton of users. BR+ (UHD/4K/8K) is a patent encumbered joke- using a decent HEVC encoder (x265) one can easily get perfectly good 4K video content on ordinary Bluray discs- and have the PS5 GPU decode them (10bit HEVC). Not that that's an issue in the age of badly transcoded blocky steaming, as fans of 'live' TV discovered with the latest episode of Game of Thrones. Why watch a crystal clear version of a video, when you can stream some compression atrocity and ruin your viewing experience.
And Bluray is 'dangerous'? Well I know someone with a brain tumour in exactly the place phone radiation enters via the hole in your skull by your ear who used the phone that way sadly. Yet I rarely see the odder types rave about phones. And yes, the official government expert stance in the West now recognises the danger of phones (infinitely worse with 5G) used by holding against the head- after years of trying to deny the evidence.
But Bluray? It's in a sealed case- the laser is under strict industry safety control standards- and the electronics for the decode and DSP functions are really nothing special.
Mind you, the OP is no more ill informed than many 'tech' 'journalists' I read and watch. For too many people, tech is like SF- all funny names, weird lights, and sciencey terms that the authors and fans certainly don't understand- but look and sound 'cool' and 'clever'.
Ever notice in almost every SF show- 'dumb' or 'smart', sooner or later the term 'Universe' is confused with the term 'Galaxy'. *That* is the rigour of the average SF or tech fan.
PS I have a DVD player in my new PC build- and find it amusing how it is a matter of 'faith' how daft such a peripheral is these days. Of course its purely for backward compatibility- in tech for enough years and you have data on no end of old formats. I gave up the inbuilt floppy this time- but even that didn't feel quite right.
PPS there are parts of this world where buying stuff on disk is still very popular. More DVD than BR- but BR is backward compatible. Like MS, Sony will have cost reduced 'digital' console options missing everything that can be culled, aiming at 1080P gaming. But if you really fear the BR laser, a local repair shop can probably cut the power line to the player. Mysticism and superstition play a big part in the lives of many people- so that such ideas overlap with modern tech shouldn't come as a suprise.
The main reason to include a BR player is because it costs essentially *nothing* yet adds value for a ton of users. BR+ (UHD/4K/8K) is a patent encumbered joke- using a decent HEVC encoder (x265) one can easily get perfectly good 4K video content on ordinary Bluray discs- and have the PS5 GPU decode them (10bit HEVC). Not that that's an issue in the age of badly transcoded blocky steaming, as fans of 'live' TV discovered with the latest episode of Game of Thrones. Why watch a crystal clear version of a video, when you can stream some compression atrocity and ruin your viewing experience.
And Bluray is 'dangerous'? Well I know someone with a brain tumour in exactly the place phone radiation enters via the hole in your skull by your ear who used the phone that way sadly. Yet I rarely see the odder types rave about phones. And yes, the official government expert stance in the West now recognises the danger of phones (infinitely worse with 5G) used by holding against the head- after years of trying to deny the evidence.
But Bluray? It's in a sealed case- the laser is under strict industry safety control standards- and the electronics for the decode and DSP functions are really nothing special.
Mind you, the OP is no more ill informed than many 'tech' 'journalists' I read and watch. For too many people, tech is like SF- all funny names, weird lights, and sciencey terms that the authors and fans certainly don't understand- but look and sound 'cool' and 'clever'.
Ever notice in almost every SF show- 'dumb' or 'smart', sooner or later the term 'Universe' is confused with the term 'Galaxy'. *That* is the rigour of the average SF or tech fan.
PS I have a DVD player in my new PC build- and find it amusing how it is a matter of 'faith' how daft such a peripheral is these days. Of course its purely for backward compatibility- in tech for enough years and you have data on no end of old formats. I gave up the inbuilt floppy this time- but even that didn't feel quite right.
PPS there are parts of this world where buying stuff on disk is still very popular. More DVD than BR- but BR is backward compatible. Like MS, Sony will have cost reduced 'digital' console options missing everything that can be culled, aiming at 1080P gaming. But if you really fear the BR laser, a local repair shop can probably cut the power line to the player. Mysticism and superstition play a big part in the lives of many people- so that such ideas overlap with modern tech shouldn't come as a suprise.
SonGoku
Member
somerset
Keep drinking the Sony kool aidBluray its causing people to lose sight, use glasses and in severe cases destroying their retinas thus causing permanent blindness (ever wondered why apple calls it retina display?) Its also a known vector for deadly disease.
It will also cripple SSD performance because of the DRM Bluray Codec
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Rayderism
Member
A disk is just an install medium and DRM dongle. How long it takes to install the disk is basically moot because once it installs, it plays from the HDD, or in the case of the PS5, the SSD.
I think what would make the most sense on the PS5, especially if it plans to have an internal SSD drive, is a sort of multi-drive setup......that is, use standard (and considerably cheaper) mechanical HHD's to store games, and just load them to the SSD for the faster load times when you run a game. Every time you play a game, it loads it onto the SSD for the zippity-do-da load times while playing. It might even hold the game there until you boot a different game, in which case it loads the new game onto the SSD. While the initial boot might be a bit longer due the the transfer between drives, the payoff would be worth it if it truly is 19X faster than current SSD tech on PC's while playing.
I'm not sure what we should consider to be the average file size for later-in-the-gen PS5 games, but it could be a way of them reducing costs by having only a....say.....250-300GB SSD drive for the games to run from, while the older style HDD simply stores all your games.
Does that sound like a feasible idea? I mean, it sounds logical to me and would be a lot more accessible for the average gamer, especially when adding extended storage.
I think what would make the most sense on the PS5, especially if it plans to have an internal SSD drive, is a sort of multi-drive setup......that is, use standard (and considerably cheaper) mechanical HHD's to store games, and just load them to the SSD for the faster load times when you run a game. Every time you play a game, it loads it onto the SSD for the zippity-do-da load times while playing. It might even hold the game there until you boot a different game, in which case it loads the new game onto the SSD. While the initial boot might be a bit longer due the the transfer between drives, the payoff would be worth it if it truly is 19X faster than current SSD tech on PC's while playing.
I'm not sure what we should consider to be the average file size for later-in-the-gen PS5 games, but it could be a way of them reducing costs by having only a....say.....250-300GB SSD drive for the games to run from, while the older style HDD simply stores all your games.
Does that sound like a feasible idea? I mean, it sounds logical to me and would be a lot more accessible for the average gamer, especially when adding extended storage.
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Chairman Tickles
Banned
It's gotta be flash media. Optical discs readers are so comparatively slow. You can buy 32gb sdhc cards for $7 on ebay now. Sony and devs could get them for ~wholesale $3. The next rung up are 64-512gb, a 64gb card can be had for just $11 at the consumer end. That means they could bulk buy for ~$5. Prices will keep dropping every year.
Now contrast that with having to include a damn optical drive with every console sold vs a simple card connector. Worse, most sales are going digital. Next gen majority of consumers will never even buy a game from brick and mortar retail.
THIS. Except you could only benefit from this using flash based game storage. Once again an optical drive would result in crippled read speeds and crippled transfer rates to the 'buffer' ssd. You'd have to first install the disc content to the other larger mechanical drive. Physical flash card games would not consume this storage space and would not require pre-installation.
Basically a switch, with a small ssd for buffering of data to speed up operations between storage and ram + mechanical drive for storage included.
Now contrast that with having to include a damn optical drive with every console sold vs a simple card connector. Worse, most sales are going digital. Next gen majority of consumers will never even buy a game from brick and mortar retail.
THIS. Except you could only benefit from this using flash based game storage. Once again an optical drive would result in crippled read speeds and crippled transfer rates to the 'buffer' ssd. You'd have to first install the disc content to the other larger mechanical drive. Physical flash card games would not consume this storage space and would not require pre-installation.
Basically a switch, with a small ssd for buffering of data to speed up operations between storage and ram + mechanical drive for storage included.
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Ar¢tos
Member
So you suggest Sony uses 64gb sd card that costs 5$ when they can use 100gb discs that will cost them less than 1$?
Nah... I don't think so.
Well said, brother. They want everything according to their imagination. In the development of any game like mobile game development, PC game development or any PS games we will not get the exact thing which we wished for. You have to adjust yourself to any kind of situation.
Chairman Tickles
Banned
So you suggest Sony uses $30+ optical disc drives in their console when they can use $0.20 flash card interface?
Nah...I don't think so.
The physical media cost is borne by devs and publishers anyway. All the more reason to create a best selling console WITHOUT an optical disc drive. Switch is managing to sell...
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Ar¢tos
Member
40$? lol
Sony already manufactures br drives for other divisions, it's much cheaper than 40 for them and it also allows BC and bluray movie playback. bluray movie sales and game disc sales also give Sony money in royalties, while sd cards give them nothing.
Chairman Tickles
Banned
It's between 20-40, so i put 30 to be safe. Trust me its one of the most expensive components of a console. Ditching it is a godsend for the one having to manufacture 100 million consoles. Like I said Sony doesn't have to foot the bill for flash cards. The publishers do.
Very niche in 2019, let alone in 2020/2021. Streaming is dominating and 4k blu ray players can be bought for cheap. If you have a home cinema setup you will have a dedicated equalizer + audio/disc player. If you have a mere tv you will be streaming netflix and Amazon Prime.
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Negotiator
Member
Not to mention that NAND chips deteriorate over time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_memory#Archival_or_long-term_storage
Would @MrTrickles be happy if his cartridges lost their data after only 1 year?
Please do the math.
$30 is an one time cost. Charging $5-10 per game adds up when we're talking about dozens of games.
Switch doesn't even use NAND chips for cartridges. Do some research.
SonGoku
Member
Streaming quality is shit. 4k streaming is a meme, as long as physical purchases exist console manufacturers will use discs.
Insane Metal
Member
Holy shit I just realized I started wearing glasses ~2006 when I got the PS3 with a Blu-ray drive! OP is right!!!
TheHighFlyingBirds
Member
My brain hurts.
At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to (read) it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to (read) it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
Damien Crowley
Member
captainamericaigotthatreference.gif
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
No... the gamers would and the games they would play would also cost more to develop as they need to fit the games in much smaller storage and have to have fun going back to the manufacturing, on demand reordering, stock management of old that nobody likes... Switch was portable and could not use discs, but that decision cost them.
SonGoku
Member
You better stop now before your retina is blown to pieces.Holy shit I just realized I started wearing glasses ~2006 when I got the PS3 with a Blu-ray drive! OP is right!!!
Afro Republican
Banned
Holy shit I just realized I started wearing glasses ~2006 when I got the PS3 with a Blu-ray drive! OP is right!!!
Since the SSD is to slow you already have type 3 diabetes.
Dead. Here is his eulogy:
Insane Metal was a good man, he was a family man, did good things for the community and old people, but because he sold Blu Ray discs to children under 18, he would have been given the death penalty in district court and killed anyway.
It all worked out in the end. The state gave the family of the dead kid a whole $5 for the funeral expenses. They best be appreciative because the state could have given them nothing...
No money was given to Insane Metals family, instead they were charged the $400,000 fine for his crime of selling Blu Rays to underaged kids. They refused to pay and all will be killed via electric chair, except instead of electricity court will shine Blu Ray lazers at them for complete Irony.
Don't forget that if you sell Blu Rays to kids, you get life plus 35 years in Prison, then another 17 for fear of violence when let out. In case it wasn't excessive enough, you'll also be killed by death penalty making your sentence pointless in the first place.
We need new laws and regulations to crack down on Blu Ray crimes, laws that are common sense, comprehensive, and other politician buzzwords I forgot off the top of my head.
Instead Insane Metal could have been a hero, a man of the people. We interviewed one of his neighbors Jimmy foofah:
Jimmy Foofah: "Well I done do reckon that there boy was stoopid. He be sellin' Blu Ray disc to toddlers, heck they be deads overnight. I do declare that his entire extended family also be killed because one Blu Ray can spread to 5000 people in only a matter of years! It ain't right that we have this terrible pieces of trash in are street. Back in my day we had a hereo who warned us about these guys, a Freedom Whazit gate? And he led the charge to fight Blu Ray from one of em' gaming bears on the info net. That man should get a statue, and then dismantle the statue, because he didn't kill Blu Ray like he waz suppose ta, and now it haunts us everyday. In fact, he should be killed to, an-"
That's enough Mr. Foofah. What he MEANT to say was that Mr.Gate was a real hero. He served 10 years in Korea in Ho Chi Minh city to fight off the Japnese Nazi's during desert storm. But this Insane Metal guy probably would have fought against Mao Zedong, what a monster, those poor children dying of Blurayfixiation, and Bi Polae regurgitation. Damn you insane Metal! Damn youuuuuu!!!
SonGoku
Member
Afro Republican
I would like to meet you some day so that you could invite me some of what you are having.
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Digital Gex
Banned
I don't know why but this made me laugh for like 5 minutes straight.
Insane Metal
Member
Jesus Christ
I think that's enough internet for today
I think that's enough internet for today
Afro Republican
Banned
Jesus Christ
I think that's enough internet for today
You aren't going to respond to your southern neighbor accusing you of selling Blu Ray to underage kids?
The cops will be seeing you shortly, and guess what, they wear Blue Uniforms, we got you now!
Insane Metal
Member
Hey I never did that! Even when I sold my PS4 it was to a 20 something y.o. dude... and I kept the discs, lol.
Chairman Tickles
Banned
No it hasn't. IT SAVED NINTENDO MONEY. Switch is selling amazingly and is getting big AAA ports of games that people thought could not even run on the platform.
Chairman Tickles
Banned
Yes it's comparatively inferior of course, but few care outside of audio-visual philes. 4k blu ray sales are a niche market.
SonGoku
Member
I've seen 1080p blurays with better quality than 4k streaming, its a meme honestly.
You don't need a expensive setup to realize the advantages, just a good quality 4k tv suffices
For gaming Discs make more sense, pubs will revolt if they have to pay $10 for 100GB sd cards on top of the 30% console manufacturers take
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Chairman Tickles
Banned
$10 for 128gb flash card is probably exaggeration. Hell even N64 cartridges weren't that much back in 1997 when purchased in bulk.
SonGoku
Member
How much then, even $5 is too much that's 8% of $60 on top of the 30% royalty on top of the Shops cut, yeah pubs won't be too happy about that.
Chairman Tickles
Banned
If they exclude an optical drive, they can then lower the percentage cut on each game sale and still come out ahead. Imagine if your console is ~20% less to manufacture out of the gate.
SonGoku
Member
But the their savings is offset in the lost royalty revenue. They will make more money keeping things as they are since there are exponentially more games sold than consoles.
What is the BOM for PS4 slim anyways?
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
This will not happen (for the simple reason that they sell more games than they sell consoles to the point of making this a losing proposition). They said the same about carts and Switch and that is where it cost them: publishers are all compressing their games to a high degree (see Dark Souls and DOOM suffering sound quality wise for example) and choosing small cartridges and forcing you to download the rest.
The Blu-Ray drive is not 20% of the cost of the console and some people will not want to have to download 40-80 GB of additional content because the game does not fit the cart. For movies that are worth owning I still go Blu-Ray because the streaming quality is nowhere near it (bitrate being 4-5x lower).
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
All thanks to carts? Lol... look on Switch you could not use optical discs for obvious reason, but none of the things you quoted is because of carts (saleswise it is doing well, but historically Nintendo handhelds have always fared well and fill their niche with software people want well).
If anything carts made the lives of developers tougher as the high cost per cart, the time it takes to reprint / manufacture new orders if you underestimate demand (and the cost)... all the nice problems CD removed when PS1 entered the market. On top of that due to the high cost per GB developers are over compressing where they can, cutting content, or forcing you to downloading it from the Internet.
killatopak
Gold Member
I never rolled my eyes back so far in my life.
Chairman Tickles
Banned
Optical media is dead as the dodo in relative terms. It grows more dead with every passing month. Time to let go chaps. I know, it took years to wean people off the VHS too, but it happened.
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Wake me up when the quality is close and U can still own my games / movies
. Why do you see so eager for us to stop buying disc content ?
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Poor analogy with VHS. One physical media replaced by a better one.
You can still buy vinyl, CDs, DVDs, and BR, and that is not going away anytime soon.
The markets and economy will crash before they would ever go away.
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