• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Wii 2 (Project Cafe): Officially Announced, Playable At E3, Launching 2012 [Updated]

Status
Not open for further replies.
HYDE said:
Seriously nothing worse than watching two grown men fight like a couple of grade schoolers.
How old are we guys, can we not chat without insults.

Only one side (two posters in particular) have resorted to personal insults, both directed at me.

The only claim I've made is that it's too early in blu rays life cycle to determine how much Sony will net from it (especially given that it's initial growth has continued to outpace dvd's initial growth).

There is no reason why people can't debate that on merits rather than resorting to insults.
 

Kenka

Member
OK, touch screen on my controller ? I would love to play some random game and then switch in View Mode... watching what my mate in my friend list on the other side of the planet plays. On the go. Without lag. Do it Nintendo.
 

DECK'ARD

The Amiga Brotherhood
Whatever else they have planned for it, if the screen in the controller is true then it would make the PERFECT Phantasy Star Online 2 controller. Map, quick weapon/item/emoticon select, touchscreen keyboard.

I'd just call it the machine the Nintendo PSO Player then.

HNNNNNG.
 
"technology of 2008" is good technology. Cpu hardware is hitting a perception barrier, the R580 is already 6 years old and is still looking good.

A R700 chip on a console will probably outperform the AMD Barts "technology of 2010" chip in my graphic card.
 

Kenka

Member
DECK'ARD said:
Whatever else they have planned for it, if the screen in the controller is true then it would make the PERFECT Phantasy Star Online 2 controller. Map, quick weapon/item/emoticon select, touchscreen keyboard.

I'd just call it the machine the Nintendo PSO Player then.

HNNNNNG.

Add a decent PSO to the Café line-up and I jump in
unless I buy it for PC
.
 

manueldelalas

Time Traveler
Log4Girlz said:
Ok, minimum acceptable specs time:

Heavily tweaked 4770 GPU
1 GB RAM (perhaps 256-512 MB of modern 1TSRAM)
Blu-Ray drive AHAHAHAHA!
at least 64 GB storage

Future-proofed specs

Heavily tweaked 4850 GPU
2 GB RAM (perhaps 1 GB of 1TSRAM)
Blu Ray Drive
at least 256 GB storage
fixed (no point in Blu Ray Drive, if dudebro developers love it, then it has HDD, installs and downloads, so BR is pointless, more expensive and slower).

About storage, since this is Nintendo, and they probably won't use SSDs (too expensive), I think they'll go for the cheapest HDD, which should now be 160 GB.
 

HYDE

Banned
Stephen Colbert said:
Only one side (two posters in particular) have resorted to personal insults, both directed at me.

The only claim I've made is that it's too early in blu rays life cycle to determine how much Sony will net from it (especially given that it's initial growth has continued to outpace dvd's initial growth).

There is no reason why people can't debate that on merits rather than resorting to insults.

Quit derailing the thread, you're annoying those who want to talk about Nintendo's new system. Please go talk about your quims with others, Sony's strategies, and Blu Ray in their proper place.
 
Kenka said:
GPU-wise, I guess that future iterations of PowerVR can also easily rival with Xenos and beyond?

Unless PowerVR is lying, that seems almost certain.

Not one to rest on its laurels, the company unveiled its new Series 6 PowerVR chips -- affectionately known as "Rogue" -- that are 20 to 100 times more powerful than its previous handheld offerings. That's right, these GPUs will have the same horsepower as today's desktop computers while needing only a milliwatt of juice to deliver face-melting graphics

http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/18/imagination-technologies-unveils-series-6-powervr-gpus-promis/

And yes, they already announced that they will be scaling them up to actually compete in the desktop gpu market. If that pans out, it should be an interesting fight in a few years between ATI, ARM and Nvidia.
 

zallaaa

Member
DECK'ARD said:
Well Mario 3DS looks like being the obvious Mario 64+Galaxy hybrid, and shall be GLORIOUS.

I'd imagine Super Streaming Mario Bros. will end up multiplayer focussed, whether 2D or 3D.

I think they'll go with a mix between Four Swords and NSMB and they could even allow each player to proceed faster than the others by streaming its portion of the game to his controller.
 

dwu8991

Banned
Whatever GPU they use, I'd just like to see a console powerful enough that it has the DEFINITIVE version of 3rd party games (like how the OG Xbox was heads and shoulders better in that regard) and maybe even Nintendo partnering with 3rd parties to bring back 3rd party exclusives that would only be possible with the Cafe for those 1-2 years that Nintendo has the power advantage. At least then you can really justify a higher price, and pull people in before the storm of whatever Microsoft and Sony are likely to release at the same time.
 
Maxwell House said:
Even if the gpu really is the dual gpu r700, that is still technology from 2008 that is releasing on a console debuting in 2012, meaning it's already four year old technology. And from the sound of things, the r700 is a best case scenario. The gpu could be any of the less powerful cards in the r700 family.

I would assume that the Wii 2 will look pretty damned underpowered when the next Xbox and Playstation come out in 2013 with technology from 2013. Both the 360 and PS3 had cutting edge components when they debuted and expect the same with their successors.

the 4870x2 is about as powerful as a 5870, going from benchmarks anyway. Right in between the 5850 and 5870
 

beje

Banned
I doubt it includes an SSD like some people imply. Even if it's some mid-end 40 to 60GB (enough for nice performance on a closed system), not only it can increase the price by $50-$100 alone, it's by every means not enough if they ever want to go the DD or Media Center route.

I think it would be more like 8GB internal memory (enough for the SO and a handful of downloadable eShop games) with the option of SD cards, USB mass storage and maybe internal HDD so the costs don't ramp up more than neccesary.
 

HYDE

Banned
Net_Wrecker said:
Whatever GPU they use, I'd just like to see a console powerful enough that it has the DEFINITIVE version of 3rd party games (like how the OG Xbox was heads and shoulders better in that regard) and maybe even Nintendo partnering with 3rd parties to bring back 3rd party exclusives that would only be possible with the Cafe for those 1-2 years that Nintendo has the power advantage. At least then you can really justify a higher price, and pull people in before the storm of whatever Microsoft and Sony are likely to release at the same time.

As much as I agree, I also wonder if major exclusives would better suit them. What if they could get their share of games like Dead Rising 1, Mass Effect 1, things like that? Maybe that will help them get the attention they need, similar to how a lot of XBOX 360 games original titles were only on their system, and never got ports or updates.
 
beje said:
I doubt it includes an SSD like some people imply.

Well, it doesn't have to be a big ssd. A 4GB NAND chip should be fairly inexpensive to buy in bulk. That's big enough for minis, virtual console games, game saves, with a GB or two left over caching game data. Those that want more will have to buy a hard drive attachment.

The NAND might be useful if console doesn't have much RAM, I don't see too much benefit beyond that though.
 
HYDE said:
As much as I agree, I also wonder if major exclusives would better suit them. What if they could get their share of games like Dead Rising 1, Mass Effect 1, things like that? Maybe that will help them get the attention they need, similar to how a lot of XBOX 360 games original titles were only on their system, and never got ports or updates.

I really enjoyed that time. Mass Effect, Dead Rising, Oblivion, Gears, Bioshock, etc. etc. all made me feel like my 360 had a purpose, especially without Nintendo, or Sony's first party caliber type of stuff. Even last gen where the PS2 had all those exclusives that made the console worth owning. Kinda why I was disappointed when GTA became more of a Microsoft brand game this gen. If Nintendo could swing that kind exclusivity with games not technically possible (without scaling down) on the other consoles, they'd have maybe 1-2 years of "Only on the Cafe" type of advertisements.

I just really miss each console having their "own" games duking it out like last gen. So many big titles are spread across everything these days, for good reason, but still.
 

blu

Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Stephen Colbert said:
Unless PowerVR is lying, that seems almost certain.



http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/18/imagination-technologies-unveils-series-6-powervr-gpus-promis/

And yes, they already announced that they will be scaling them up to actually compete in the desktop gpu market. If that pans out, it should be an interesting fight in a few years between ATI, ARM and Nvidia.
Not meaning to jump on the 'Let's gang on Colbert' trend, but that quote you just posted is horse shit. Just so you knew. And using horse shit as any kind point-building material in any civilized discussion leads to avalanches of shit.

That said, Rogue is very promising in the handheld segment. Delivering today's desktop GPUs levels of performance 'for milliwatts', it will not, alas.
 
blu said:
Not meaning to jump on the 'Let's gang on Colbert' trend, but that quote you just posted is horse shit. Just so you knew. And using horse shit as any kind point-building material in any civilized discussion leads to avalanches of shit.

That said, Rogue is very promising in the handheld segment. Delivering today's desktop GPUs levels of performance 'for milliwatts', it will not, alas.

Like I said, unless PowerVR is lying...

Here is the pressrelase about rogue...

http://www.stericsson.com/press_releases/NovaThor.jsp

Maybe they're overestimating it's capabilities.

If it even comes close to that caliber of performance, it should blow us all away.

Edit: Oh, you mean the milliwatts part. Yeah, it seems engadget was laying it on a bit thick with that statement.
 

Flare

Member
HYDE said:
What would be even better, Link being able to jump.
Link's Awakening will always make the others feel akward.
I absolutely hate the automated jump that has been in place since A Link to the Past.

Imagine the ability to jump off a cliff, and then use the dual clawshots. We could forget Bionic Commando ever existed. Scratch that, Nintendo will read the second half and keep out the ability to jump. Better yet, imagine jumping off a cliff and then gliding with something like Roc's paraglider(cape).

And then add a seamless transition from Skyloft to "the land below". The game would be perfect.
 

Jackano

Member
beje said:
I think it would be more like 8GB internal memory (enough for the SO and a handful of downloadable eShop games) with the option of SD cards, USB mass storage and maybe internal HDD so the costs don't ramp up more than neccesary.

8GB will not be enought if Gamecube games become downloadables.
 
oh wow.. controller leaked


bszvoni8i7xk07z7c.png
 

beje

Banned
Jackano said:
8GB will not be enought if Gamecube games become downloadables.

I think GC would still be directly compatible through the original discs. However, if they ever give the option to download them, let whoever wants them to get the kind of storage media they want without putting that cost on all users. Kind of like the 3DS approach: here you have a 2GB SD card, it's more than enough for taking hundreds of pics, saving extra stuff for games and holding a bunch of downloadable games. Are you a power user? Then you're free to get an SD card as big as 32GB if you ever need it.
 
I really doubt nintendo goes the 2 sku route, or uses a large enough to store things ssd, or sells the hdd seperate. I could see them putting in a relatively small amount of flash for fast access + hdd for storage.
 

HYDE

Banned
solblade00 said:
And then add a seamless transition from Skyloft to "the land below". The game would be perfect.

It would be a little like Wind Waker's deku leaf gliding, but better with the ability to jump.
I'd love hard to reach areas, where timing was difficult or gliding had to be precise to enter a cave, etc....

I am still waiting for the ability to upgrade Epona with Pegasus boots, or Link with Icarus wings. Anyone else hate the Super Mario cannons in Zelda Twilight Princess? That would have been the perfect game to introduce a way for Link or Epona to jump/fly. What were they thinking when it came to getting Link to the Gerudo desert from Lake Hylia? Such wasted potential, if you ask me. It's equivalent to giving Link a submarine to get to the water temple.
We can get the spinner from Mega Man 2 in Zelda, but not the ability to gain a method of flight? Seems so akward to me....
 

beje

Banned
LizardKing said:
I really doubt nintendo goes the 2 sku route, or uses a large enough to store things ssd, or sells the hdd seperate. I could see them putting in a relatively small amount of flash for fast access + hdd for storage.

That's the most likely scenario given how Nintendo likes fast access and low latency. Having the HDD or mass storage as optional behind a 8 or 16GB flash (which are relatively cheap to manufacture nowadays) they can give a more adjusted price from the start, and it would only be needed in case download sizes for DLC or eShop games go out of whack.
 

Glass Joe

Member
HYDE said:
As much as I agree, I also wonder if major exclusives would better suit them. What if they could get their share of games like Dead Rising 1, Mass Effect 1, things like that? Maybe that will help them get the attention they need, similar to how a lot of XBOX 360 games original titles were only on their system, and never got ports or updates.

Hmm. I think if the N-Cafe got each major PS360 game with the superior version (better graphics presumably), that coupled with Nintendo's own 1st party software would be more than enough to propel the system. Plus, given an assumed 2 year head start, that thing would have some strong momentum. By the time PS4/720 games came out, they'd probably be created with Cafe in mind and up-ported.

Of course, that assumes universal 3rd party support out of the gate, which unfortunately is a stretch. Some strong exclusives from anyone but N would be ace too, but really it all comes down to 3rd party relations and what Nintendo's gonna do to impress them.
 

GABDEG

Member
Blu-ray would be a major selling point for me. If they keep the console quiet and low on power consumption, it could be a good blu-ray player.
 
Deguello said:
I'm under the assumption that they meant streaming "game content" and not streaming "entire games" aside from VC titles and such. I think the TV will still be used as the main display. Otherwise, why get an HD-capable GPU if it's going to be wasted on a 6 inch screen?

2x2 sparse grid supersampling in every game! :)

Not a single visible jaggie.


As for R700 being "4 year old technology" well so is NGP but I didn't hear many complaints about specs in that reveal thread.

Consoles will never again get close to the high end PC market, ever increasing power draw has put paid to that and the "featurest" of a GPU is becoming increasingly less important, now that we've to a fully unified and flexible shader architecture. There's really no effect or rendering technique that couldn't be adapted to an r700 GPU in a closed box environment with no fixed API. Its telling that a lot of the major breakthroughs in DX11 actually run on DX 10 hardware in some form or other, that a console GPU doesn't support an endless list of new PC texture formats or strictly adhere to a list of arbritrary requirements is mostly irrelevant in the console space.

Its already been proven that AMD's DX10.1 GPUs are more area efficient and in a closed box where you have a fixed power and transistor budget, the more area efficient the architecture, the faster the GPU you can include. As long as the festureset is modern and flexible enough (and it absolutely is) it really doesn't matter how 'old the technology is, just how efficient it is and if r700 is more efficient (as figures would indicate) then its the smarter choice.
 

Glass Joe

Member
GABDEG said:
Blu-ray would be a major selling point for me. If they keep the console quiet and low on power consumption, it could be a good blu-ray player.

Considering the Wii takes DVDs and isn't even a DVD player, I wouldn't get your hopes up for that. My guess is it'll have it's own funky format like Gamecube: Capacity between DVD and Blu Ray, smaller size for faster loading (or a really fast motor), and harder to copy/pirate right away since PC drives can't read 'em. Possibly not even a disc but a card.
 

Kenka

Member
brain_stew said:
2x2 sparse grid supersampling in every game! :)

Not a single visible jaggie.


As for R700 being "4 year old technology" well so is NGP but I didn't hear many complaints about specs in that reveal thread.

Consoles will never again get close to the high end PC market, ever increasing power draw has put paid to that and the "featurest" of a GPU is becoming increasingly less important, now that we've to a fully unified and flexible shader architecture. There's really no effect or rendering technique that couldn't be adapted to an r700 GPU in a closed box environment with no fixed API. Its telling that a lot of the major breakthroughs in DX11 actually run on DX 10 hardware in some form or other, that a console GPU doesn't support an endless list of new PC texture formats or strictly adhere to a list of arbritrary requirements is mostly irrelevant in the console space.

Its already been proven that AMD's DX10.1 GPUs are more area efficient and in a closed box where you have a fixed power and transistor budget, the more area efficient the architecture, the faster the GPU you can include. As long as the festureset is modern and flexible enough (and it absolutely is) it really doesn't matter how 'old the technology is, just how efficient it is and if r700 is more efficient (as figures would indicate) then its the smarter choice.

Again, brain_stew, wouldn't it be cheaper/more developer-friendly and more efficient to go the Tegra/PowerVR/Loongson route ? Their upcoming iterations will most probably support DirectX 10 and beyond and their consumption is low.
 

dwu8991

Banned
Glass Joe said:
Considering the Wii takes DVDs and isn't even a DVD player, I wouldn't get your hopes up for that. My guess is it'll have it's own funky format like Gamecube: Capacity between DVD and Blu Ray, smaller size for faster loading (or a really fast motor), and harder to copy/pirate right away since PC drives can't read 'em. Possibly not even a disc but a card.

I think they will stick with DVDs, much easier to manufacture in volume.
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
In terms of console->PC power, it's also worth remembering that consoles really wont have any need to output at anything higher than 1920x1080. 3D is the only extra. Many PC gamers strive for higher resolutions, and sometimes across mutliple monitors.

Even though consoles could theoretically adapt to these higher resolutions, they dont need to. Sony and Microsoft really have no reason to include anything other than a 3D 1080p standard, as the mass market demand for anything else just isn't there.

I think in the next generation this will be a huge factor in deciding what goes into the next Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo systems.
 
Kenka said:
Again, brain_stew, wouldn't it be cheaper/more developer-friendly and more efficient to go the Tegra/PowerVR/Loongson route ? Their upcoming iterations will most probably support DirectX 10 and beyond and their consumption is low.
Not fast enough (Tegra especially) and their featurests are even further limited, Tegra isn't even a unified shader architecture (or all that efficient, anyway).

The only possible mobile solution would have been a multicore SGX Series 6 but then Nintendo wouldn't have final silicon until right close to launch with no way of producing dev kits with comparable performance. That's another reason why a modified r700 could be a big win, Nintendo would have been able to ship near final dev kits months/years in advance of release, which we know they have.
 

Jocchan

Ὁ μεμβερος -ου
EatChildren said:
In terms of console->PC power, it's also worth remembering that consoles really wont have any need to output at anything higher than 1920x1080. 3D is the only extra. Many PC gamers strive for higher resolutions, and sometimes across mutliple monitors.
Which is, coincidentally, what the Café is supposed to be able to do.
 
I wonder if Nintendo will include a hard drive or flash memory? Maybe 3rd party developers would push for them to include a hard drive? Do they care? If the rumored screenshots are accurate there seems to be plenty of room to include one in those cases.
 

Glass Joe

Member
dwu8991 said:
I think they will stick with DVDs, much easier to manufacture in volume.

Maybe, but the capacity might burn them in the long run. A 1.5 gig GameCube disc probably seemed like plenty to them during the design phase (the standard at the time was a 700 meg CD). But with PS2/XBox1 both using the DVD format, I think there were some important games like GTA3 the GameCube missed out on since they couldn't fit. And with the PS3 having Blu-Ray, getting ports down the line may require more room than a DVD can handle.
 
Vinci said:
Never, ever doubt Sony or MS's willingness to cut its own throat.
I don't doubt that, but I do doubt their ability to break the laws of thermodynamics. High end PC GPUs consume more than 300w alone, there's simply no way you can fit a monster like that into a console nor would you ever want to try (the RROD problem cropped I
up when Microsoft went for a <100w GPU).
 

wsippel

Banned
I always wondered why it shouldn't be feasible to create a DVD or Blu-ray/ InPhase hybrid. A disk pressed using conventional (and cheap) means, but with the data organized in pages instead of tracks and a read head similar to a CCD camera reading one Mbit at a time, instead of a single bit.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom