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Wii 2 (Project Cafe): Officially Announced, Playable At E3, Launching 2012 [Updated]
- Thread starter Nirolak
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DXB-KNIGHT
Member
Aren't SSD expensive that if Nintendo used it $599 will be a minimum?GavinGT said:
VisanidethDM
Banned
One of the biggest reasons that make a console generational leap a much more complex process this time around is the focus on online.
This, in the perspective of a console developer, is right now the biggest conundrum to solve.
When the PS360 generation took over the previous, there was no estabilshed online community to "port over". Yes, MS had started something in that direction, but online is clearly the biggest improvement the new consoles offered. And they built on it, and made it the core of the experience.
It's what we lament day after day - the death of single player experience, the proliferation of FPSs and so on. But those games - the guaranteed multimillion sales - all hinge on online. It's what makes a no-name new entry like Homefront sell millions. The "to sell you need multiplayer" mantra is repeated ad nauseam, and the problem is that when you release a new console... the online community just isn't there.
Never been a problem before, for obvious reasons, but now? Sure, core gamers will flock to a new console as usual. But the bulk of the fanbase will risk moving to an environment where the online community is so small?
In fact, how do you even release a killer app for a console if you can't even base it on Online?
Theorycally Nintendo is the less affected by this issue, as they don't have the kind of online community MS and Sony built over time, and also because they have always treated online as a service more than a community (which helps portability for sure).
However, on the other hand, if the Cafè is meant to be close enough in speccs to the PS360 to allow for porting of major franchises, then something in Nintendo's plan sounds... suicidal.
If the Cafè runs the same CoD game the 360 does (at 16AA and 120 fps and with fireworks and whatnot, but still the same game), how in the heavens do they expect to attract players away from multimillion users online communities? In fact, it's a reflection of the entire issue I have with these rumors. It doesn't sound rational. Nintendo going after the core audience by releasing a slight upgrade of a console they already own (the PS360, or worse, a PC), that plays the same games they can get on the consoles they already have, and with no estabilished online community? Or Nintendo going after the core audience with Nintendo exclusives, and putting them on the new machine instead of the Wii which has a colossal estabilished base (also among core gamers, because let's face it, we all have a Wii)?
In that perspective, it would mean the Cafè is meant to replace, and not supplement the Wii. There's some signs in this direction (not caring about raw power again, control "gimmicks" that innovate in a way the competition won't immediately want to follow etc), but at the same time, it's also insane to think about interrupting support for one of the best selling console ever released in order to shift to a radically different product that seems destined to cater to a much smaller audience. It's possible Nintendo found out that the gamers who bought the Wii aren't the gamers you can make money from, but if they're expecting to see the same userbase who bought a cheap, motion control based flock to an expensive, controller based hardcore product that mocks multi-screen PC setups from geek-porn fantasies, well, good luck to them.
I may be mistaken, but the Cafè seems destined to either compete with the Wii or try to take over the PS360, and I honestly don't think it has many chances to achieve success in either case. A traditional generational leap would be possible - continued but timed support for the Wii, slow buildup for the new consoles until it "blooms" - if it wasn't for the online focused gaming community of today. If you're competing with the PS360 on the same titles and you can't offer a full online experience from the get-go, you're dead on arrival.
This, in the perspective of a console developer, is right now the biggest conundrum to solve.
When the PS360 generation took over the previous, there was no estabilshed online community to "port over". Yes, MS had started something in that direction, but online is clearly the biggest improvement the new consoles offered. And they built on it, and made it the core of the experience.
It's what we lament day after day - the death of single player experience, the proliferation of FPSs and so on. But those games - the guaranteed multimillion sales - all hinge on online. It's what makes a no-name new entry like Homefront sell millions. The "to sell you need multiplayer" mantra is repeated ad nauseam, and the problem is that when you release a new console... the online community just isn't there.
Never been a problem before, for obvious reasons, but now? Sure, core gamers will flock to a new console as usual. But the bulk of the fanbase will risk moving to an environment where the online community is so small?
In fact, how do you even release a killer app for a console if you can't even base it on Online?
Theorycally Nintendo is the less affected by this issue, as they don't have the kind of online community MS and Sony built over time, and also because they have always treated online as a service more than a community (which helps portability for sure).
However, on the other hand, if the Cafè is meant to be close enough in speccs to the PS360 to allow for porting of major franchises, then something in Nintendo's plan sounds... suicidal.
If the Cafè runs the same CoD game the 360 does (at 16AA and 120 fps and with fireworks and whatnot, but still the same game), how in the heavens do they expect to attract players away from multimillion users online communities? In fact, it's a reflection of the entire issue I have with these rumors. It doesn't sound rational. Nintendo going after the core audience by releasing a slight upgrade of a console they already own (the PS360, or worse, a PC), that plays the same games they can get on the consoles they already have, and with no estabilished online community? Or Nintendo going after the core audience with Nintendo exclusives, and putting them on the new machine instead of the Wii which has a colossal estabilished base (also among core gamers, because let's face it, we all have a Wii)?
In that perspective, it would mean the Cafè is meant to replace, and not supplement the Wii. There's some signs in this direction (not caring about raw power again, control "gimmicks" that innovate in a way the competition won't immediately want to follow etc), but at the same time, it's also insane to think about interrupting support for one of the best selling console ever released in order to shift to a radically different product that seems destined to cater to a much smaller audience. It's possible Nintendo found out that the gamers who bought the Wii aren't the gamers you can make money from, but if they're expecting to see the same userbase who bought a cheap, motion control based flock to an expensive, controller based hardcore product that mocks multi-screen PC setups from geek-porn fantasies, well, good luck to them.
I may be mistaken, but the Cafè seems destined to either compete with the Wii or try to take over the PS360, and I honestly don't think it has many chances to achieve success in either case. A traditional generational leap would be possible - continued but timed support for the Wii, slow buildup for the new consoles until it "blooms" - if it wasn't for the online focused gaming community of today. If you're competing with the PS360 on the same titles and you can't offer a full online experience from the get-go, you're dead on arrival.
EternalDarko
Member
Isn't that pretty much the same bloody thing? SSDs are made with NAND flash memory...EricDiesel said:
ConradCervantes
Banned
I wish we still lived in a time where only gaming mags posted obscenely fake rumors, and the era of the Internet Troll hadn't begun just yet. I suppose it's a given with any new hardware. Remember folks, 3DS is on par with 360/PS3!
ConradCervantes said:
true dat, I'm definitely taking every single statement/fact/rumour with a scoop of salt.
"How good it is - X times better than the Y " is a statement that since long has held no value since it's invariably misinterpreted or inadvertantly factually wrong.
DXB-KNIGHT
Member
Coming from Beyond the Labyrinth thread makes it hard to laugh at this old rumor.ConradCervantes said:
VisanidethDM said:
I think your final ten words are a bit harsh but wow, you sure do know how to elaborate arguments. I think your point of view is interesting. We were rather discussing market and technical arguments in this thread but never have we discussed the importance of the HD installed base in regard to their online community.
If what you say is true, and if Nintendo want to court the entire population of potential or established gamers, then they have to come with some serious online plateform that would cater on both people that previously bought the Wii and which may arguably have less expectations/experience/insight about the online communities and the ones who fully appreciate Xbox Live / PSN right now.
How would that be possible ? You need interesting MMO software, low entrance fees and friendly interface to not discourage people to jump in, new games that would cater on Wii's current audiance and finally also give those people good reason to sink money in your new product. All of that makes me think of cloud-computing. But the problem of cloud-computing is that although you can jump in as customer with low entrance fees, you have to sustain the cloud with periodic cash flow. Will people accept subscription-based gaming ?
And let's not talk about people that would jump into gaming BECAUSE they want a friendly interface AND a robust online experience. That's stil another crowd that may be court with the next Wii.
Ollie Pooch
In a perfect world, we'd all be homersexual
Completely agree. While we don't know much about it and it's a while away, I think I'll be approaching this one with caution - they've overpromised and underdelivered with regards to online/connectivity before, and I'm not convinced they'll pull it off this time. It's feeling like a blatant "Ok, this machine (wii) is dead - time to invest in a new one now!" move, and the whole thing leaves me a bit skeptical. Will jump on board if it picks up like they hope, but it's still a long way off yet.VisanidethDM said:
VisanidethDM
Banned
Honestly it looks more like high end PS2 (think GoW2) than PS360 level. The core problem is that most of what we've seen on the 3DS so far is closer to the N64 than the NGC.
VisanidethDM
Banned
Resolution being made irrelevant by screensize/bullshotting (in both cases), I still think it looks more like a jaw dropping PS2 game than a really poor PS360 one.
About cloud-computing again, there is an interesting article on I-CIO :
http://www.i-cio.com/blog/april-2011/cloud-computings-early-adopters
Could Nintendo go this way and finance its structure with subscriptions ? If they go cloud, they won't have to sell expensive/beefy hardware. Everyody has broadband today. I seriously doubt though that they will leave the retail market for good.
http://www.i-cio.com/blog/april-2011/cloud-computings-early-adopters
Could Nintendo go this way and finance its structure with subscriptions ? If they go cloud, they won't have to sell expensive/beefy hardware. Everyody has broadband today. I seriously doubt though that they will leave the retail market for good.
wonderfuldays
Member
ecosse_011172 said:
This should based on IGN board rumor few days ago. Please don't give too much hype on that.
If the PS2 could do normal mapping, rim lighting, colour correction and push texture of that resolution, sure.VisanidethDM said:
Really though the reason people think it looks like a current gen game is because of the colour correction. It makes a world of difference in cell-shaded games.
The texturing and lighting in Beyond the Labyrinth are on another level from that.VisanidethDM said:
Resolution being made irrelevant by screensize/bullshotting (in both cases), I still think it looks more like a jaw dropping PS2 game than a really poor PS360 one.
Simply not possible on a PS2. You could maybe get close on an Xbox. This is getting off-topic though.
orioto said:
I must have played the wrong N64 games.
VisanidethDM
Banned
If Nintendo implements cloud computing as the core of their online experience, I'll be thrilled, but I wonder if that's is kind of tech innovation that wins over the masses. Sony implemented cloud saves recently with little to no reaction.
I think what Nintendo is struggling with right now is: "CoD#... how do we make it work on the Cafè?".
Just look at the % split between X360 and PS3 SKUs. Why does the X360 version almost always sell more? A big part of the reason is the online community. That's the real headstart MS had (some could argue with the XBox), and it still matters today. And I'm not persuaded a free sevice is a smart idea.
It may be Marketing 01, but a cheap service that makes the core customer feel "safe" (cough PSN fiasco cough) and at the same time pushes him to validate the money is spent can move units. Once again, PSN didn't take over XBoxLIVE even if it was free. And if you want to persuade a new audience that the new service you're offering is special, and works, and you want to make sure they don't take it for granted but treat it as a core function (since they pay for it and want to make the most of it), then giving it away for free may not be the best choice.
XBoXLIVE Gold, when it all began, was marketed as an innovative extra, and it worked that way. It may sound counter intuitive, but it's very hard to "sell" something if you don't ask anything for it, and if Nintendo has to compete with MS for the online community (once again, on the same games), I think they have a better shot if they go for the route of offering a service that is BETTER than XBoxLIVE and cost the same, then offering a service that is the same and costs nothing.
Cosmonaut X
Member
orioto said:
Hyperbole from one side (ZOMG PS360-level graphics!) doesn't justify it from the other...
orioto said:
It's more than PSX/N64 models for the background. Compared to what is released so far, I'd definitely say it's better.
It's no PS360 game or close, however, so those people are naturally certifiable insane individuals who either didn't own a PS360 or do and are just blind.
Magicpaint
Member
Who are those saying it's PS360 quality? loool, it's not even up there with the best of GC/Xbox.Amir0x said:
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Mr_Brit said:
Good point, Nintendo can't change anything and everything they do in the future will be a direct continuation of what they have done in the past.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Mr_Brit said:
There's a billion possible reasons for that, "Nintendo refuses to abandon friend codes" is only one of them. Worked on by different teams, the system they plan to use wasn't ready / was only in concept stage when the 3DS had to be finalized, Nintendo though that Friendcodes were fine for a handheld but they needed a better system for their console that will be competing with the 360/PS3, etc etc.
Cosmonaut X
Member
Amir0x said:
I think the thing that confuses people is the (relative) sophistication of the shaders in use in several 3DS games. The system can't push anywhere near the polygons, physics, number of effects etc. of a full-on PS360 title, but it can apparently do PS2-level geometry with a bundle of PS360-ish shader effects so it's relatively easy to make a game that has the surface "look" of a PS360 title without the detail and everything else going on under the surface.
No way, no company would think friendcodes are fine for a handheld but not fine for their console. If Nintendo really thought they needed to ditch friendcodes to stay competitive with Sony and MS they would have done so for the 3DS. This is also a high level decision and would not be dictated by the design teams working on the 3DS and Wii 2 so any decision on friendcodes would affect both 3DS and Wii 2.ThoseDeafMutes said:
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Mr_Brit said:
Now you're just making things up. It's perfectly plausible for Nintendo to see the online service of their console as something important given the success of XBL and PSN, but to not give two shits about their handheld version because they don't think it's important for a handheld. The fact that they launched the 3DS without 50% of its online features is pretty ample evidence that they don't think it's super important for handhelds. It's also evidence that the 3DS was rushed out the gate (and implementing a system that wasn't going to be ready for 12 months after launch would not make much sense there either).
It's not like they can summon this infrastructure overnight.
Wrestlemania
Banned
There's no reason they can't still adapt the 3DS system. I think the new console might work in a similar way to the 3DS with one system locked friend code and friend list, but on top of that will be an option to link to a registered Club Nintendo account.Mr_Brit said:
If that happens, then it shouldn't be too difficult with a 3DS firmware update to offer the same account linking, giving you a unified login.
vani77a said:
None of these matter when you have Final Fantasy XV, Red Dead Redemption 2, Tekken Tag Tournament 2, HD Pokemon and new entries in Metal Gear Solid, Resident Evil and basically every other big franchise ready to show at first public unveiling. Man, I'm surprised they didn't throw Uncharted 4 in there - wouldn't make the list any less plausible, as it's already about as believable as me growing a third dick.
Wolves Evolve
Member
Radogol said:
Did there.
I see what you.
Bidermaier
Member
Nintendo know most handhelds are played at home. And they are scared of the iPad and even more scared of cheap android tablets coming soon.
This console deals with that competition nicely. It is both a gaming hub and a tablet and also can compete with big consoles.
This console deals with that competition nicely. It is both a gaming hub and a tablet and also can compete with big consoles.
PumpkinPie
Banned
A.KU.MU said:
It's okay, Pokemon Soul Silver came with a pedometer to help keep kids safe, it can detect them from miles around.
ecosse_011172 said:
such utter bullshit, you know its a fake when someone basically takes a checklist of all the problems people have with nintendo consoles and address each one individually, also of like 7 AAA 3rd party games that haven't even been announced. and adding what appear the only solid(ish) details we really have to add some kind of legitimate framework for it.
this is piss poor basically
From The Dust
Banned
What I find ridiculous is people still referring to the GCN design even when it is (as of cafe launch) 2 gens ago. The classic pro is already out people base it on that.
thehillissilent
Member
ecosse_011172 said:
Having a SSD as a hard drive makes no sense since it's more expensive. It would make more sense to have a 16GB flash drive and have a SD card or USB hard drive expansion. If some of those game reveals are true, especially Pokemon RPG (which people have been asking for years), Nintendo fans will have a heart attack. I'm not a fan of having the Gamecube controller style buttons. It should be more like the CC Pro. If Nintendo is serious about online it may very well be subscription based. However, then again it may not so adaption may be faster. If they do a subscription service it should be more like PSN+ so that online multiplayer will be free.
thehillissilent said:
none of those games will reveal as true, a new pokemon is a given, but chances of it being what nintnedo fans actually want is remote they have ignored us for just under a decade now.
Chances are if a magical genie appears granting every wish you ever wanted, he's not really a genie, and his magical lamp is just a sick toy he's going to be ramming up you poor naive backside before he inevitably proceeds to rape you
joshwaan
Member
- 3rd Parties were involved with the development of the console, with requests for what specifications theyd like to see. As of now (which could change) the system runs of a custom built IBM triple-core CPU and has 2gb RAM. The graphics chip is a custom built Radeon R700 chip.
I Hope this part is a least true, fucking kick ass if the console had 2GB ram
I Hope this part is a least true, fucking kick ass if the console had 2GB ram
hmmm... During the GDC keynote Iwata-san kept praising Pokemon, XBox Live and World of Warcraft for their success in advancing "social gaming"... Could this finally be it?
There's also that "Pokemon announcement" in May...
Argh, the anticipation is killing me. I wish I could pull an Eric Cartman and freeze myself for 40 days.
fabricated backlash
Member
joshwaan said:- 3rd Parties were involved with the development of the console, with requests for what specifications theyd like to see. As of now (which could change) the system runs of a custom built IBM triple-core CPU and has 2gb RAM. The graphics chip is a custom built Radeon R700 chip.
I Hope this part is a least true, fucking kick ass if the console had 2GB ram
2GB should be the bare minimum for a 2012 release. Even if Nintendo wants to once again bring out only "good enough" hardware, 2GB is really the lowest you could start with.
That said, knowing Nintendo I fully expect them to barely match current specs with ram...
Still undecided how I feel about this console. From the rumours the controls sound like a cluttered mess.
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