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[sfried]

Let's not forget bizarre stuff like Captain Rainbow and Giftpia.

 

[Mojojo]

Somebody needs to thoroughly do their research.

Where is Starfy?

 

[DECK'ARD]

Just the sight of a Pikmin makes me happy.

 

[PantherLotus]

Nintendo has been making a lot of new IPs, but none of them have reached the success or popularity of Zelda/Metroid/Mario. You can blame Nintendo for not marketing those games well enough (and not cultivating a hardcore gamer scene on the Wii in general), but you can't say they didn't create any games.

By all means, list out the ones that meet even one of Amir0x's criteria. I'm not excluding titles because they're not good or not popular.

It does not stand. You missed out on some key tites. Whether or not they were developed internally is not the point. They own the characters and subsequently the IP.

And this is the point I'm trying to make: Whether or not they're a success is an entirely different issue, but don't you dare say they haven't been making anything new.

What key titles did I miss? Who's talking about IPs? Why are you doing the whole "dont you dare!" thing. What is wrong with you?

And really, who said they didn't make anything new? They made the entire Wii Series, which is one of the most successful series in the entire history of gaming. They've done a lot of new and interesting things, some of which I've really loved. But why are we pretending they make anything on the caliber of Mario and Zelda...but MARIO AND ZELDA?

 

[sfried]

But Nintendo hasn't put nearly the budget of a Mario/Zelda/Metroid into one of these new ideas. That's the point I'm making.

Not true. Pretty much they collaborated with Tsunku for Rhythm Heaven/Tengoku and Starfy was pretty much marketing blitz in Japan. Also the Brain Training games also clearly needed some budget on development (and because Dr. Kawashima royalties). The Wii ____ series also qualifies, and you bet you'll be seeing more Wuhu Island in the future.

 

[PantherLotus]

Let's not forget bizarre stuff like Captain Rainbow and Giftpia.

Ok, it's clear you don't want to have an adult conversation, so we won't. Let me know when you read back just one page and see what we're talking about.

For fun:

Not true. Pretty much they collaborated with Tsunku for Rhythm Heaven/Tengoku and Starfy was pretty much marketing blitz in Japan. Also the Brain Training games also clearly needed some budget on development (and because Dr. Kawashima royalties). The Wii ____ series also qualifies, and you bet you'll be seeing more Wuhu Island in the future.

This is called denial. We start off talking about "why doesn't Nintendo create something on the level of Zelda?!" and you say "Brain Training counts!"

That's totally fine. There's no more conversation with a person that thinks like this.

 

[Big One]

Come on, sfried. I'm not being harsh or trolling or out of line or anything, and you added a few DS games to the list? It's clearly labeled:

Original Characters Created by Nintendo Appearing on a Nintendo console the first time:

Console specific, huh? Then why did you list Wario and Pokemon? I think your requirements are inane, and really just an excuse to complain. I've already listed series that fill these requirements, while you're listing series that technically aren't. I'm not sure what to say to that; an IP is an IP. Nintendo has heavy involvement in every game they published. The Last Story, for example, is pretty much close to being co-developed by Nintendo due to the amount of effort they spent releasing and marketing the damn game, and for the fact that The Last Story is the most highly tested/debugged game the Super Mario Club has ever encountered. And while most of the IPs I listed at one-shot games there's still successful IPs like Pikmin, Wii series, Golden Sun, Starfy, Elite Beat Agents, The Last Story, Warioware, etc.

 

[TekkenMaster]

By all means, list out the ones that meet even one of Amir0x's criteria. I'm not excluding titles because they're not good or not popular.



What key titles did I miss? Who's talking about IPs? Why are you doing the whole "dont you dare!" thing. What is wrong with you?

And really, who said they didn't make anything new? They made the entire Wii Series, which is one of the most successful series in the entire history of gaming. They've done a lot of new and interesting things, some of which I've really loved. But why are we pretending they make anything on the caliber of Mario and Zelda...but MARIO AND ZELDA?

Metroid Prime is on the level, as is I hope the next Metroid.

 

[Bel Marduk]

But Nintendo hasn't put nearly the budget of a Mario/Zelda/Metroid into one of these new ideas. That's the point I'm making.

I don't see why this matters much...

For example Xenoblade doesn't seem like it's on the same budget as Mario/Zelda/Metroid yet it's still definitely high budget and a good game.

 

[wsippel]

The whole point of creating that list was to see where Nintendo actually did that in the past and where they stopped. It looks like they stopped when they put together the so-called Dream Team for Project Ultra.

My point is that frankly, they haven't met Amir0x's parameters set in his quote above that for a long, long time. Every indication we have is that they're out of that business. Yes, that's incredibly sad.

Amirox actually included Chibi Robo as a positive example in his list. Chibi Robo is by skip. Nobody cares who exactly came up with what. Nintendo isn't out of the character development business, they simply changed their structure. Also, your list is still completely arbitrary. How does it matter if the characters debut on a console or a handheld? How does Fire Emblem, handled by Intelligent Systems, count, yet games by Monolith don't?

You're not listing "Original Characters Created by Nintendo Appearing on a Nintendo console the first time". You're listing "Original Characters Created by EAD/ R&D1/ R&D2 Appearing on a Nintendo console the first time". Nintendo didn't stop creating new characters or IPs. EAD did.

 

[sfried]

What key titles did I miss? Who's talking about IPs? Why are you doing the whole "dont you dare!" thing. What is wrong with you?

You missed my edits. And yes, Eternal Darkness qualifies. They just need Silicon Knights to develop it, the same way you can't really have S&P without Treasure doing it.

 

[boyshine]

Excite doesn't really have any iconic characters and worlds and they hardly ever make those games so it's hardly as offensive as playing yet another Mario title and knowing there's going to be Toadstools and turtle shells and fucking Mushroom Kingdom and blah blah blah.

It's an excuse to be creatively bankrupt and lazy and reuse assets while simultaneously ensuring their legion of zombie-like fans pick it up for no reason other than the satisfying security blanket-esque knowledge that they're finally home again so they can pan the camera and look up Princess Peach's skirt.

Again, though, the problem isn't that they make sequels or that they neverendingly whore their franchises. Well, more accurately, that isn't the sole problem. I mean yes attaching to these franchises means certain tone, certain level of aesthetic leeway, certain expectations - it restricts what you can do. It impacts aspects of the game like music and visuals and even type of gameplay quirks (hey do you know that Mario is gonna shoot fire in Tennis!? How novel!). It's all oppressively limiting.

With genuinely new, hardcore IPs - with the same effort and money as a Zelda and Mario game - they can strike out and use that astounding talent we all know they have when they're on their best behavior and make something truly new and groundbreaking without the restraints of lesser men. It's not hard, it's not an unreasonable expectation. Nintendo is wildly successful and their competitors do just that all the time. They don't exist in a vacuum so Nintendo better learn to compete at some point.

It's frustrating also because Nintendo, as a developer, is easily the most talented of the three. It's not even close. But because of their self-inflicted franchise whoring wound, they are always limiting their potential. They occasionally break out of the doldrums with something truly groundbreaking like Super Mario Galaxy (which, not coincidentally, was also aesthetically the most unique of all Mario games - not just GRASS, LAVA, ICE, but wildly original worlds with incredible variety and new enemies of all types and the pleasant little homages that made you smile instead of just feeling like they're being cloyingly old school again), but they have a way better chance when they make new things. Pikmin and Pikmin 2 as well as Chibi Robo, for example, remain some of the best Nintedno games ever made. That was only a gen ago. They have it in them.

You talk about how the use of popular franchices for a game concept is limiting and how it's just to take advantage of their "zombie"-fans, yet you mention Pikmin of all games as an example of Nintendo doing it right.. a game that just barely hit the million mark worldwide, a game that was touted as Miyamoto's - the creator of Donkey Kong, Mario and Zelda - new game, and would probably not reach 200K and never warrant a "patch"-sequel if it wasn't for those exact same zombies who bought it blindly because it was a Nintendo exclusive/Miyamoto game. And Chibi Robo? Nintendo has a better chance when they make games like Chibi Robo? A better chance of what? Wasting money?

I seriously do not understand the hate for using and evolving a popular franchise. Doing it right over so many years is precisely what makes it so popular after all. Nintendo has been making Mario and Zelda games for 25 years, and I still can't wait for the next one to come out. That's because Nintendo is always doing something new. You never know what the next game will be like. Unlike other developers who just releases sequel after sequel with identical gameplay until the franchise is dead. How is that better?

They have been saying since the GameCube days that they are working on new IPs, and I do understand if they've been holding those back from Wii, because a new IP at that Metroid or Zelda level would never have sold well on Wii. But if the next console is a more traditional gamers' gaming console, then I will not be surprised if these new games with concepts that must have been in development for almost 10 years now (!) are going to see the light of day very soon. Everything is also automatically more interesting if it's debuting with a new console. Launching a new IP mid-gen is extremely difficult... unless your IP is just another typical action or racing game, which I hope is not what you'd want from Nintendo.

 

[TekkenMaster]

Not true. Pretty much they collaborated with Tsunku for Rhythm Heaven/Tengoku and Starfy was pretty much marketing blitz in Japan. Also the Brain Training games also clearly needed some budget on development (and because Dr. Kawashima royalties). The Wii ____ series also qualifies, and you bet you'll be seeing more Wuhu Island in the future.

Some of those games aren't character-based. And those that are have nowhere near the production budget of a Mario Galaxy/Twilight Princess/Metroid Prime.

 

[Big One]

Some of those games aren't character-based.

All of those games are character-based wtf are you talking about?

 

[sfried]

Amirox actually included Chibi Robo as a positive example in his list. Chibi Robo is by skip. Nobody cares who exactly came up with what. Nintendo isn't out of the character development business, they simply changed their structure. Also, your list is still completely arbitrary. How does it matter if the characters debut on a console or a handheld? How does Fire Emblem, handled by Intelligent Systems, count, yet games by Monolith don't?

You're not listing "Original Characters Created by Nintendo Appearing on a Nintendo console the first time". You're listing "Original Characters Created by EAD Appearing on a Nintendo console the first time". Nintendo didn't stop creating new characters or IPs. EAD did.

But EAD branched out from Nintendo from R&D1 a long time ago (or was the R&D2). Anyways it doesn't matter which development house internally or externally because, technically, GAMEFREAK gave Nintendo Pokemon and it still qualifies as Nintendo's property.

 

[PantherLotus]

Console specific, huh? Then why did you list Wario and Pokemon? I think your requirements are inane, and really just an excuse to complain. I've already listed series that fill these requirements, while you're listing series that technically aren't. I'm not sure what to say to that; an IP is an IP. Nintendo has heavy involvement in every game they published. The Last Story, for example, is pretty much close to being co-developed by Nintendo due to the amount of effort they spent releasing and marketing the damn game, and for the fact that The Last Story is the most highly tested/debugged game the Super Mario Club has ever encountered. And while most of the IPs I listed at one-shot games there's still successful IPs like Pikmin, Wii series, Golden Sun, Starfy, Elite Beat Agents, The Last Story, Warioware, etc.

To be fair, I listed the first time they appeared on a console. By all means, cross that shit off too, but we're continually whittling that list down to nothing, only further showing the truth.

What I don't get is why you think this is a complaint. I don't care whether Nintendo ever makes something like Zelda from the ground up again. I'm showing that they haven't done that sort of thing more or less since 1995.

 

[DXB-KNIGHT]

I don't see any Miis on the list of creations?

 

[Dascu]

By all means, list out the ones that meet even one of Amir0x's criteria. I'm not excluding titles because they're not good or not popular.

Could you rephrase your criteria?


Edit: Oh, you're leaving? Well, let me say that I generally agree with what you're saying (or what I think you're saying), but you must see that success and popularity are the most important issues here. The lack of success of the Wii (and before that the GameCube and even the N64) are the reasons why all these new IPs haven't reached the status of Zelda. Something like The Last Story would've been a big success back on the SNES and I bet we'd have The Last Story V: Pandora's Tower at this point. Likewise, something like Metroid on the Wii right now would not be anywhere near as popular as back in the day. Heck, look at Other M.

 

[PantherLotus]

Man, I forgot what it was like to talk about Nintendo. Hopefully I'm wrong and our dreams for something like Mario/Zelda/Metroid come true. Later guys.

 

[Big One]

To be fair, I listed the first time they appeared on a console. By all means, cross that shit off too, but we're continually whittling that list down to nothing, only further showing the truth.

What I don't get is why you think this is a complaint. I don't care whether Nintendo ever makes something like Zelda from the ground up again. I'm showing that they haven't done that sort of thing more or less since 1995.

So you're willing to just weed out some of the most successful franchises Nintendo has ever had? Yeah no, stop with this shit. Pokemon is quite literally the second most popular thing Nintendo has and is actually making money with. You can't disregard stuff because it's on a handheld. Also the budgets on Mario, Zelda, and Metroid aren't as big as you probably think. Also Pikmin is still internally developed and features a character. Same with the Wii games.

 

[Bel Marduk]

To be fair, I listed the first time they appeared on a console. By all means, cross that shit off too, but we're continually whittling that list down to nothing, only further showing the truth.

What I don't get is why you think this is a complaint. I don't care whether Nintendo ever makes something like Zelda from the ground up again. I'm showing that they haven't done that sort of thing more or less since 1995.

To me it just seems like you're bashing them for not making a global phenomenon like Zelda again, rather than new IPs...although the Wii series definitely counts as one. In terms of characters, Miis are definitely iconic.

 

[TekkenMaster]

All of those games are character-based wtf are you talking about?

The Wii____ series isn't character based. Miis are avatars/icons, not characters.

 

[miksar]

What types of new IPs do you want? I can only think of a new action-adventure series, but other than that what can Nintendo do? FPS/MMO/WRPG? What's the point?

What they need to do is invest more in some of their teams (Monolith, for example), expand them and seek more support from western 3rd parties. That should be enough.

 

[sfried]

This is called denial. We start off talking about "why doesn't Nintendo create something on the level of Zelda?!" and you say "Brain Training counts!"

That's totally fine. There's no more conversation with a person that thinks like this.

Uh, Brain Training definitley counts. Besides, that wasn't the only thing I mentioned. I said Rhythm Heaven and Elite Beat Agents (and Japan/European only stuff like Ouendan and Band Brothers) too. Are you will to discredit such iconic characters in those games as well?

Scratch-O!

 

[Big One]

The Wii____ series isn't character based. Miis are avatars/icons, not characters.

They're both, at least officially at least the Miis are just a group of characters. Or maybe Wuhu Island is the character, I dunno. Doesn't stop it from being one of Nintendo's most successful inhouse IPs ever made.

 

[TekkenMaster]

What types of new IPs do you want? I can only think of a new action-adventure series, but other than that what can Nintendo do? FPS/MMO/WRPG? What's the point?

What they need to do is invest more in some of their teams (Monolith, for example), expand them and seek more support from western 3rd parties. That should be enough.

Something wholly "mature" using a realistic human as the main character, a'la Tomb Raider reboot, Mirrors Edge, Uncharted series, etc.

 

[Instro]

Most of the big budget new IPs from Nintendo this gen were part of the casual series(i.e. Wii ____ , Nintendogs, Brain Training) including the Miis. Not to say that stuff isn't creative, because it is, but most people on GAF arnt really interested in that stuff myself included.

The last truly big budget new IP from Nintendo that could be considered a core title is Pikmin imo. All the new IPs from this gen have either been casual stuff, or titles with tiny budgets and no marketing, many of which still haven't been localized.

 

[TekkenMaster]

Most of the big budget new IPs from Nintendo this gen were part of the casual series(i.e. Wii ____ , Nintendogs, Brain Training) including the Miis. Not to say that stuff isn't creative, because it is, but most people on GAF arnt really interested in that stuff myself included.

The last truly big budget new IP from Nintendo that could be considered a core title is Pikmin imo. All the new IPs from this gen have either been casual stuff, or titles with tiny budgets and no marketing, many of which still haven't been localized.

Exactly my point.

 

[sfried]

Something wholly mature using a realistic human as the main character, a'la Tomb Raider reboot, Mirrors Edge, Uncharted series, etc.

Oh God, here we go. So you want us to weed Mario out, along with Pikmin, simply because they aren't "mature" and don't look or play at all like Uncharted.

Yup, only on GAF people. On a thread that is suppose to be primarily about the Cafe, not other companies.

And to answer your question, Last Story, Xenoblade, Pandora's Tower, Regenliv, Disaster, and arguably Hotel Dusk had realistic characters.

 

[wsippel]

Most of the big budget new IPs from Nintendo this gen were part of the casual series(i.e. Wii ____ , Nintendogs, Brain Training) including the Miis. Not to say that stuff isn't creative, because it is, but most people on GAF arnt really interested in that stuff myself included.

The last truly big budget new IP from Nintendo that could be considered a core title is Pikmin imo. All the new IPs from this gen have either been casual stuff, or titles with tiny budgets and no marketing, many of which still haven't been localized.

I wouldn't be surprised if Xenoblade had a bigger budget than Pikmin. I'm actually quite sure that was the case, even.

 

[Bel Marduk]

Something wholly "mature" using a realistic human as the main character, a'la Tomb Raider reboot, Mirrors Edge, Uncharted series, etc.

Disaster?

Most of the big budget new IPs from Nintendo this gen were part of the casual series(i.e. Wii ____ , Nintendogs, Brain Training) including the Miis. Not to say that stuff isn't creative, because it is, but most people on GAF arnt really interested in that stuff myself included.

The last truly big budget new IP from Nintendo that could be considered a core title is Pikmin imo. All the new IPs from this gen have either been casual stuff, or titles with tiny budgets and no marketing, many of which still haven't been localized.

There's no way Xenoblade and TLS don't fall into the big budget category. Xenoblade has been in development for 3+ years, TLS for 3-4+.

 

[VisanidethDM]

I seriously do not understand the hate for using and evolving a popular franchise

I think the observation here isn't really on a morality, milking-your-stuff-cause-you're-lazy level.

It's more about observing how the gaming industry, despite being so young, is struggling to refresh itself. If Nintendo was the movie industry, they'd be scratching their heads wondering why people keeps going to the yearly remake of Griffith's classic and trying to understand why Titanic bombed and nobody went to see The Matrix.

Gaming has evolved; we should be able to create new, popular and more modern mascots and franchises. If we can't create new stuff that is better than the old stuff, where are we headed?

 

[wsippel]

There's no way Xenoblade and TLS don't fall into the big budget category. Xenoblade has been in development for 3+ years, TLS for 3-4+.

They also have all the bells and whistles not even Zelda has: Tons of great cinematics, orchestrated soundtracks and even voice acting.

 

[TekkenMaster]

Oh God, here we go. So you want us to weed Mario out, along with Pikmin, simply because they aren't "mature" and don't look or play at all like Uncharted.

I realized I forgot to put the word mature in quotes, so I stealth-edited my post. I meant games that the dudebros consider mature...I was using the term tongue in cheek.

I want a big-budget (Zelda level) new Nintendo IP with a realistic looking human lead character.

 

[Big One]

I want a big-budget (Zelda level) new Nintendo IP with a realistic looking human lead character.

Zelda games aren't big-budget and why would you even ask for that from Nintendo? What made you play a Nintendo game and ask, "Wow I really wish I could play a REAL version of this"?

 

[PantherLotus]

I think I just fully realized the depth of insanity required to call miis characters and compare brain training to zelda.

I haven't visited the gaming side in well over a year (since I stopped running the sales threads), but the gulf between decent conversational debate and just mind-bogglingly slack-jawed inability to read and understand and get over ourselves, if only for a moment, is startling.

1. We're talking about what should happen with Zelda
2. Amir0x says they should do something LIKE ZELDA, but NOT ZELDA.
3. People agree, people disagree.
4. I say, they haven't done something LIKE ZELDA but NOT ZELDA (or Mario or Metroid) in years! Here's a list to prove it!
5. WHAT ABOUT MIIS AND BRAIN TRAIANNIG ?!!?!?!!? THOSE ARE TOTALLY CAHRATER BASED AND SUCCESFUL!

Ok guys, I was wrong. You should totally expect Nintendo to release its new character based console epic adventure on the level of The Legend of Zelda on the Wii2. You should totally expect that. Any day now.

 

[miksar]

Something wholly "mature" using a realistic human as the main character, a'la Tomb Raider reboot, Mirrors Edge, Uncharted series, etc.

That's not what Nintendo does. And even if they try I don't think they'd succeed. Just look at the recent efforts of some japanese developers trying to make "western" looking games, they all look pathetic. Everyone who prefers "realistic" types of games should stick to the other platforms. Demanding Nintendo's internal studios to do what they're not good at is a ridiculous proposition.

 

[VisanidethDM]

I realized I forgot to put the word mature in quotes, so I stealth-edited my post. I meant games that the dudebros consider mature...I was using the term tongue in cheek.

I want a big-budget (Zelda level) new Nintendo IP with a realistic looking human lead character.

Doesn't that make as much sense as wanting an Epic Games platformer with cute bunnies (_____)?

If Nintendo never did that, there's probably a reason. I'd be more curious about seeing Nintendo top Mario.

 

[Big One]

Ok guys, I was wrong. You should totally expect Nintendo to release its new character based console epic adventure on the level of The Legend of Zelda on the Wii2. You should totally expect that. Any day now.

Okay so what non-Nintendo franchises that are - by all means - character based that are even remotely as successful on a worldwide level that the Zelda franchise is?

 

[Zeliard]

I sympathize with Amir0x and the others. Thing about Nintendo is their EAD team is laughably talented. That's where all of this comes from. People want to see them focus their considerable abilities on a new 'hardcore' console IP just as seriously as they do the mainline Mario and Zelda games.

 

[wsippel]

I think I just fully realized the depth of insanity required to call miis characters and compare brain training to zelda.

I haven't visited the gaming side in well over a year (since I stopped running the sales threads), but the gulf between decent conversational debate and just mind-bogglingly slack-jawed inability to read and understand and get over ourselves, if only for a moment, is startling.

1. We're talking about what should happen with Zelda
2. Amir0x says they should do something LIKE ZELDA, but NOT ZELDA.
3. People agree, people disagree.
4. I say, they haven't done something LIKE ZELDA but NOT ZELDA (or Mario or Metroid) in years! Here's a list to prove it!
5. WHAT ABOUT MIIS AND BRAIN TRAIANNIG ?!!?!?!!? THOSE ARE TOTALLY CAHRATER BASED AND SUCCESFUL!

Ok guys, I was wrong. You should totally expect Nintendo to release its new character based console epic adventure on the level of The Legend of Zelda on the Wii2. You should totally expect that. Any day now.

And you've yet to answer how something like Xenoblade isn't "LIKE ZELDA, but NOT ZELDA (or Mario or Metroid)". It's just as first party, (probably) just as big budget, and just character based - well, it's actually more character based.

 

[VisanidethDM]

Okay so what non-Nintendo franchises that are - by all means - character based that are even remotely as successful on a worldwide level that the Zelda franchise is?

Assassin's Creed could potentially be one.

Now if you want exact Zelda number we'll be running in circles, but there's been quite a few successfull games in the last few years.

 

[VisanidethDM]

And you've yet to answer how something like Xenoblade isn't "LIKE ZELDA, but NOT ZELDA (or Mario or Metroid)". It's just as first party, (probably) just as big budget, and just character based - well, it's actually more character based.

Isn't Xenoblade technically in-house more than first party?

 

[Dascu]

I think I just fully realized the depth of insanity required to call miis characters and compare brain training to zelda.

I haven't visited the gaming side in well over a year (since I stopped running the sales threads), but the gulf between decent conversational debate and just mind-bogglingly slack-jawed inability to read and understand and get over ourselves, if only for a moment, is startling.

1. We're talking about what should happen with Zelda
2. Amir0x says they should do something LIKE ZELDA, but NOT ZELDA.
3. People agree, people disagree.
4. I say, they haven't done something LIKE ZELDA but NOT ZELDA (or Mario or Metroid) in years! Here's a list to prove it!
5. WHAT ABOUT MIIS AND BRAIN TRAIANNIG ?!!?!?!!? THOSE ARE TOTALLY CAHRATER BASED AND SUCCESFUL!

Ok guys, I was wrong. You should totally expect Nintendo to release its new character based console epic adventure on the level of The Legend of Zelda on the Wii2. You should totally expect that. Any day now.

They have don't things like Zelda. Decent amount even with a big budget. None of them have reached the success of Zelda. Why? Nintendo didn't quite market them well enough, the Wii is in decline and gamers in general aren't quite as open to new IPs anymore (as demonstrated by you dismissing titles because of a perceived lack of budget or whatnot).

 

[PantherLotus]

Why are you talking about success? Who keeps bringing up budgets? We're talking about NEW FRANCHISES with NEW CHARACTERS. Nintendo has the budget (but doesn't allocate the budget required because they correctly identify that they can spend less and make more on other stuff, like brain training).

Edit: Oh, you're leaving? Well, let me say that I generally agree with what you're saying (or what I think you're saying), but you must see that success and popularity are the most important issues here. The lack of success of the Wii (and before that the GameCube and even the N64) are the reasons why all these new IPs haven't reached the status of Zelda. Something like The Last Story would've been a big success back on the SNES and I bet we'd have The Last Story V: Pandora's Tower at this point. Likewise, something like Metroid on the Wii right now would not be anywhere near as popular as back in the day. Heck, look at Other M.

I was going to leave but couldn't pass up trying to prove someone wrong on the internet.

To that point, success and popularity are hopefully not what really drives us as gamers. Just the fact that you said that should make you sad on the inside, like when your dog dies or you think about your first love breaking up with you. How cynical must one be, how dead must our inner-child be to say "success and popularity are the most important issues here." If I had tears left I'd weep for gamers that feel this way.

You say "all these new IPs," but I do wonder to which you're referring.

 

[Bear]

Reginleiv, The Last Story, and Xenoblade hasn't been reported to be "awful" aside from a few posters on GAF. Why would you believe in the minority over the majority? You seem awfully jaded on this subject

I've played Reginleiv, and I can attest to it being a pile of shit. It's an absolute mess in terms of tech, and I don't mean in "GAF terms" if that's your concern. The game slows down to a crawl in pretty much any battle. Not just to ~20 fps, it really feels like playing a slideshow. The combat isn't that great either. The motion controls actually work quite well, but goddamn is everything else handled poorly. The "draw to slash" sword fighting is slow and awkward, and it makes aiming your slashes (which is core to the combat) difficult since all the action is chugging along as it happens. Ranged combat and magic are handled in weird ways too. That, plus the framerate, pretty much make any combat situation unplayable. The game has a few redeeming qualities and is occasionally even a bit fun, but the vast majority of the time it is boring, bland and extremely slow. I won't get into all the other technical problems (crashing, some stunningly awful animation, ugly generic visuals to name a few) because the game is that problem alone is so game breaking I'm surprised anyone, much less Nintendo, ended up publishing it in this state.

I'll admit that the game has a few interesting touches, but anyone who genuinely likes this game is able to wade through a lot to get to that occasional nugget of amusement. I'm a pretty forgiving guy when it comes to games and I've liked most of the Wii games that got on GAF's hate list, but this game is fundamentally broken. This isn't some anti-Nintendo scheme or some BS like that, this is a genuinely bad game. I don't like to bash it because I know the niche appeal is enough to give it a few fans, and I don't want to be the troll even when the game deserves it. I've been seeing a lot of paranoia about bias when it comes to these games, and it's completely fucking unwarranted. Disregarding my own opinion (which actually is not that bad, though I couldn't stand it longer than I felt was enough to judge the game), the game has way too many issues to be tolerable to anyone but a few batshit crazies and Australians who bothered importing it. It's kinda like didgeridoos. There's no credibility for the idea that this game was good or really worth releasing, and this idea of Nintendo haters conspiring to smear their names is fucking absurd.

 

[Big One]

Assassin's Creed could potentially be one.

Now if you want exact Zelda number we'll be running in circles, but there's been quite a few successfull games in the last few years.

I didn't say successful games.

I said games as successful as Zelda.

This spans practically 25 years of critically acclaimed gaming.

Two games: Legend of Zelda and Ocarina of Time are two of the most influential and critically acclaimed games of all time that even great new gen IPs like Uncharted won't even be able to match no matter how many sequels it gets.

Same could be said about Mario, especially since Super Mario Bros. laid the groundwork for 2D gaming, and Super Mario 64 laid the groundwork for 3D gaming.

There simply isn't anything close to being that revolutionary, critically acclaimed, and still a worldwide success as those two series.

 

[fabricated backlash]

Isn't Xenoblade technically in-house more than first party?

Isn't that one and the same thing?

 

[wsippel]

Isn't Xenoblade technically in-house more than first party?

I don't see how that matters? EAD is a subsidiary, Monolith is a subsidiary.

 

[Dascu]

I was going to leave but couldn't pass up trying to prove someone wrong on the internet.

To that point, success and popularity are hopefully not what really drives us as gamers. Just the fact that you said that should make you sad on the inside, like when your dog dies or you think about your first love breaking up with you. How cynical must one be, how dead must our inner-child be to say "success and popularity are the most important issues here." If I had tears left I'd weep for gamers that feel this way.

You say "all these new IPs," but I do wonder to which you're referring.

Man, why so harsh?

That aside, you must've misunderstood. My claim is that success and popularity is why the new Nintendo IPs aren't considered on the same level as Zelda. I've listed some reasons in my previous post. Lack of quality is not the reason, and I dare say lack of budget isn't either.

And those new IPs: Xenoblade, The Last Story, Another Code franchise and Rhythm Tengoku.

I would add Disaster: Day of Crisis, Soma Bringer, Zangeki no Reginleiv, Takt of Magic franchise, Captain Rainbow and the yet-to-be-released Pandora's Tower. However, I'd say these games are perhaps a notch lower on the quality-scale (though this obviously varies from person to person).