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[VisanidethDM]

Yes, it will look like Pikmin, Wii Sports, Nintendogs, or Animal Crossing!

You may not realize it, but you said something intelligent.

 

[Glass Joe]

I'd never understand why people want Nintendo to make AAA big budget realistic mature games so badly. Isn't the market somewhat saturated with those?

Because Perfect Dark/Goldeneye were awesome. Conker's Bad Fur Day was awesome. Eternal Darkness was awesome. Yes none were actually made by Nintendo (all 2nd party), but if they don't have the desire to make mature games themselves, paying other companies to do them (while offering guidance) results in a more diverse portfolio.

 

[Diffense]

You may not realize it, but you said something intelligent.

You do not realize it, but you said something silly.

Because Perfect Dark/Goldeneye were awesome. Conker's Bad Fur Day was awesome. Eternal Darkness was awesome. Yes none were actually made by Nintendo (all 2nd party), but if they don't have the desire to make mature games themselves, paying other companies to do them (while offering guidance) results in a more diverse portfolio.

I have a feeling it would be a total trainwreck if they attempted it.
Maybe EAD should make a 'mature game' so people will stop asking...lol

Even the slight seriousness of Zelda:TP freaked them out and created all sorts of barriers to their gameplay ideas.
Do you notice the 180 degree artistic turn they did with Skyward Sword?

 

[freddy]

I'd never understand why people want Nintendo to make AAA big budget realistic mature games so badly. Isn't the market somewhat saturated with those?

I've never understood this either. Sure make some partnerships with other companies and publish them but play to your strengths always. Anyway given the comments of Tanabe they are looking.

 

[Log4Girlz]

Give Zelda to Hideo Kojima

*hides*

 

[Mojojo]

I've never understood this either. Sure make some partnerships with other companies and publish them but play to your strengths always. Anyway given the comments of Tanabe they are looking.

They can't "let go", probably because they grew with Nintendo stuff. Their taste changed and they want Nintendo to change with them.. It's kind of cute and pathetic in a way. You can spot them when they throw insult at people who still genuinely enjoy Nintendo franchises.

 

[JaseC]

Give Zelda to Hideo Kojima

*hides*

At least he'd make it obvious that the supposed Zelda timeline is just an elaborate troll.

 

[DataBot]

Give Zelda to Hideo Kojima

*hides*

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Nintendo needs to strike out and make genuinely new hardcore shit unattached to any franchise they own and thus unattached to any expectations (and therefore limitations) attached to it, like every other company around

Give every other company around a game a third as successful as Nintendo's and they use the name fifty times, too.

 

[DXB-KNIGHT]

Give Zelda to Hideo Kojima

*hides*

So he can create a good game that is not Zelda like he did with Castlevania no thank you.

 

[EVH]

I just want to see that God of War like game that was named HAMMER.

 

[Micerider]

So he can create a good game that is not Zelda like he did with Castlevania no thank you.

Well, I'm not sure how much he was involved in the actual deisgn of Castlevania LoS to be honest. Aside from de "cinematic" aspect of the cut-scenes, I could not clearly idenitfy a "Kojima's Touch" in the game.

To stay on Topic what the Wii 2 would need is "big names" support. Not that it would ensure success, but it would at least attract some attention.

 

[neoanarch]

I just want to see that God of War like game that was named HAMMER.

Why? by all accounts it was awful.


Looking around the internet. Cosmic Walker was cancelled? Not that disappointed considering we never got any real info on it, but still.

 

[Jocchan]

I just want to see that God of War like game that was named HAMMER.

HAMMUR was about as interesting as a cheap wooden drawer. Probably even a bit less.

Looking around the internet. Cosmic Walker was cancelled? Not that disappointed considering we never got any real info on it, but still.

Cosmic Walker, on the other hand, had some potential.

Spoiler

But maybe I'm a bit biased, as some years ago I wrote a very similar pitch.

 

[fabricated backlash]

Well, I'm not sure how much he was involved in the actual deisgn of Castlevania LoS to be honest. Aside from de "cinematic" aspect of the cut-scenes, I could not clearly idenitfy a "Kojima's Touch" in the game.

To stay on Topic what the Wii 2 would need is "big names" support. Not that it would ensure success, but it would at least attract some attention.

What it would need more than just Nintendos effort to provide a proftiable Plattform for 3rd parties, it would need 3rd parties to actually put some effort in their games on a future nintendo console, instead of simply destroying any chance of longtime rewards by releasing shit that no one will buy anyway.
Now one could argue where the fault for that lies, but it's really a chicken or egg question.

I somehow doubt that 3rd parties are actually bringing some sort of effort to the cafe at all, regardless of what efforts Nintendo is putting in the plattform.

 

[Lonewolf_92]

Some of those games aren't character-based. And those that are have nowhere near the production budget of a Mario Galaxy/Twilight Princess/Metroid Prime.

Few games do, by any publisher, and it's an extreme rarity for a game to begin with the kind of budget a developer normally reserves for a successful franchise series (and it's even more rare for them to live up to that faith. Red Steel and Shenmue, anyone?)

 

[JaseC]

Few games do, by any publisher, and it's an extreme rarity for a game to begin with the kind of budget a developer normally reserves for a successful franchise series (and it's even more rare for them to live up to that faith. Red Steel and Shenmue, anyone?)

Do we even an idea of what the production budgets of those games were? Every time this particular discussion topic is brought up, Nintendo is nowhere to be seen, and I assume that's because they keep those cards close to their chest.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

To stay on Topic what the Wii 2 would need is "big names" support. Not that it would ensure success, but it would at least attract some attention.

Heheh. May I amend "big names used appropriately"? As opposed to, say

Castlevania... the fighting game!
Soul Calibur... the action adventure!
Resident Evil... the lightgun game!
Dead Space... also the lightgun game!
Final Fantasy... the single-player spinoff of a multiplayer subseries!

 

[boyshine]

Few games do, by any publisher, and it's an extreme rarity for a game to begin with the kind of budget a developer normally reserves for a successful franchise series (and it's even more rare for them to live up to that faith. Red Steel and Shenmue, anyone?)

Shame on you for comparing Red Steel to the most amazing game ever made.

 

[neoanarch]

Do we even an idea of what the production budgets of those games were? Every time this particular discussion topic is brought up, Nintendo is nowhere to be seen, and I assume that's because they keep those cards close to their chest.

Nintendo doesn't release those numbers. We could try and guess by team size. Considering SSB Brawl had a staff of around 100, Zelda/Mario probably have around the same. Average japanese developer pay according to a quick google search is 57.5K x 100 is 5.8ish million in salary per year. Development time from 18-30 months.

So about 9 to 15 milllion in salaries not counting production/distribution/marketing which could be anything from 2-10 million more(just a guess)

 

[Amir0x]

Uhh, way to jump the gun?

Um, pretty sure the Wii is over dude. I don't think Nintendo is going to start trying at this point anymore

You talk about how the use of popular franchices for a game concept is limiting and how it's just to take advantage of their "zombie"-fans, yet you mention Pikmin of all games as an example of Nintendo doing it right.. a game that just barely hit the million mark worldwide, a game that was touted as Miyamoto's - the creator of Donkey Kong, Mario and Zelda - new game, and would probably not reach 200K and never warrant a "patch"-sequel if it wasn't for those exact same zombies who bought it blindly because it was a Nintendo exclusive/Miyamoto game. And Chibi Robo? Nintendo has a better chance when they make games like Chibi Robo? A better chance of what? Wasting money?

boyshine, you live in a world where you think I give a fuck about sales instead of how good games are. I don't care how the sheep baaa baaaa on their way toward the shittery. I only care if Nintendo delivers great games. Other developers deliver far more expensive games in brand new hardcore IPs that sell less that Pikmin did AND follow it up with Sequels.

Pikmin was a brand new IP, extremely high quality, sold moderately well, warranted a sequel - but the sales part doesn't matter. The quality part does. That's the only thing that matters to me or any true gamer. If you want to jerk it to stock values and shit you be my guest but that's a direction for conversational porn I have no interest in.

Side Note: I am pretty sure 85% of people (completely made up statistic ALERT wee-woo wee-woo) who purchased Pikmin had no goddamn clue who Miyamoto is. Hint, most people wouldn't even know he made Mario. INDIVIDUAL game developers remain relative unknowns to consumers at large, who could not tell you the creative director on anything from Call of Duty to Mario.

I seriously do not understand the hate for using and evolving a popular franchise. Doing it right over so many years is precisely what makes it so popular after all. Nintendo has been making Mario and Zelda games for 25 years, and I still can't wait for the next one to come out. That's because Nintendo is always doing something new. You never know what the next game will be like. Unlike other developers who just releases sequel after sequel with identical gameplay until the franchise is dead. How is that better?

It's been explained. You don't understand because you don't want to, because it doesn't conform to your worldview. You don't have to agree with it, but a basic understanding is simple.

Again conflating popularity for quality. Popular things routinely suck. In fact, most popular things are terrible. That's not just some hipster/elitist screed - it's the inerrant truth.

Also incorrect statement: I always know a lot about what their next games will be like when they're back to franchise whoring. That's because by the very nature of their franchise whoring, and by the very principle of why it's a terrible practice, it demands utilizing characters, worlds, items and assets that have been abused so much that they're boring to see, no matter what context they're put in. It's lazy, creatively bankrupt development that can be defended only in the most intellectually dishonest of ways.

Yes, the games are frequently good and nobody is denying it. But this practice constantly holds Nintendo back and it's old hat and because it's done SO often, it is for me a massive strike against these titles these days. Only the very very select few Nintendo games avoid it being a strike, which is typically things like Mario Galaxy since it is SO far removed from what we typically see that it sort of at least neutralizes itself.

They have been saying since the GameCube days that they are working on new IPs, and I do understand if they've been holding those back from Wii, because a new IP at that Metroid or Zelda level would never have sold well on Wii. But if the next console is a more traditional gamers' gaming console, then I will not be surprised if these new games with concepts that must have been in development for almost 10 years now (!) are going to see the light of day very soon. Everything is also automatically more interesting if it's debuting with a new console. Launching a new IP mid-gen is extremely difficult... unless your IP is just another typical action or racing game, which I hope is not what you'd want from Nintendo.

Well, I hope so. I do. I love Nintendo. It's the only reason I am so harsh. I hate BECAUSE I love etc etc.

 

[orioto]

I'd never understand why people want Nintendo to make AAA big budget realistic mature games so badly. Isn't the market somewhat saturated with those?

There is a room for AAA big budget Unrealistic games to i guess.

 

[Lonewolf_92]

Shame on you for comparing Red Steel to the most amazing game ever made.

Both of which had large production costs, both of which didn't really live up to those costs in one way or another. I'm not comparing the quality of their gameplay or anything else here (although both did spawn two games apiece, coincidence? )

 

[fabricated backlash]

Heheh. May I amend "big names used appropriately"? As opposed to, say

Castlevania... the fighting game!
Soul Calibur... the action adventure!
Resident Evil... the lightgun game!
Dead Space... also the lightgun game!
Final Fantasy... the single-player spinoff of a multiplayer subseries!

It's funny how the bolded ones swapped genre on the Wii.

 

[Amir0x]

There is a room for AAA big budget Unrealistic games to i guess.

Yup. I want Nintendo to make exactly what they're good at, and that's what they are good at.

Just without the franchise whoring all the time. I still WANT Mario, Zelda and Metroid, but just mixed it with a healthy dose of new hardcore franchises that are marketed and budgeted at the Mario and Zelda level. Not an unreasonable request

 

[Amalthea]

Yup. I want Nintendo to make exactly what they're good at, and that's what they are good at.

Just without the franchise whoring all the time. I still WANT Mario, Zelda and Metroid, but just mixed it with a healthy dose of new hardcore franchises that are marketed and budgeted at the Mario and Zelda level. Not an unreasonable request

If you want them to do what they're good at, then this is an unreasonable request. he he

 

[BGBW]

Is it too late to point out that the argument about new IPs is faulty if no one recognises what an IP actually is.

I can point out that the Super Guide is a new Nintendo IP, because patents are also IPs. It's also been used multiple times so it isn't even a one hit wonder.

A big pro tip when it comes to using business terms is not to use sites like GameTrailers for your definitions. A much better term would be franchise and when a franchise becomes big enough you could even call it a brand. IP is such a vague term which would explain why the last page (100ppp) had a lot of back and forth disagreement about what people considered an IP to be.

 

[Lonewolf_92]

If you want them to do what they're good at, then this is an unreasonable request. he he

Well, they DID do that with Final Fantasy I, and I'm sure they would again if they found a 3rd party title worthy enough of that sort of push, but that's not exactly what Amir0x is aiming for either.

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

The one thing about the EAD Department of Nintendo, is that they have created franchises around the hardware and "target consumer base".

Super NES
F-Zero, Pilotwings, Star Fox, Stunt Race FX,

Nintendo 64
Wave Race 64, 1080* Snowboarding, Animal Crossing

GameCube
Luigi's Mansion, Pikmin

Nintendo DS
Nintendogs

Wii
Wii Sports, Wii Play, Wii Fit, Wii Music

Each generation isn't indicative of the last generation. Basically Nintendo's EAD department isn't as predictable as we would like to think. They've gone from action cartooney games, to more hip arcade style games, to pop-mass culture software.

But also. There are other physical creators inside of Nintendo. Sakamoto's team being one of them. Tomodachi Collection. Rhythm Tengoku. WarioWare. Metroid: Zero Mission. Play-Yan.

And the Brain-Age team who also developed English Training, Photo Dojo, Band Bros., AR Games, and more.

Game development at Nintendo is a lot more complex than listing all the games Miyamoto supervised.

 

[KenOD]

All this talk has done nothing but make me want a Captain Rainbow 2 that much more.

 

[ace3skoot]

Is it too late to point out that the argument about new IPs is faulty if no one recognises what an IP actually is.

I can point out that the Super Guide is a new Nintendo IP, because patents are also IPs. It's also been used multiple times so it isn't even a one hit wonder.

A big pro tip when it comes to using business terms is not to use sites like GameTrailers for your definitions. A much better term would be franchise and when a franchise becomes big enough you could even call it a brand. IP is such a vague term which would explain why the last page (100ppp) had a lot of back and forth disagreement about what people considered an IP to be.

stop being Pedantic Pony...

 

[AceBandage]

Heheh. May I amend "big names used appropriately"? As opposed to, say

Castlevania... the fighting game!
Soul Calibur... the action adventure!
Resident Evil... the lightgun game!
Dead Space... also the lightgun game!
Final Fantasy... the single-player spinoff of a multiplayer subseries!

Ugh, Crystal Bearers would have been the greatest thing ever... if they hadn't shoohorned in all those minigames for no reason.

 

[Juice]

The one thing about the EAD Department of Nintendo, is that they have created franchises around the hardware and "target consumer base".

Super NES
F-Zero, Pilotwings, Star Fox, Stunt Race FX,

Nintendo 64
Wave Race 64, 1080* Snowboarding, Animal Crossing

GameCube
Luigi's Mansion, Pikmin

Nintendo DS
Nintendogs

Wii
Wii Sports, Wii Play, Wii Fit, Wii Music

Each generation isn't indicative of the last generation. Basically Nintendo's EAD department isn't as predictable as we would like to think. They've gone from action cartooney games, to more hip arcade style games, to pop-mass culture software.

But also. There are other physical creators inside of Nintendo. Sakamoto's team being one of them. Tomodachi Collection. Rhythm Tengoku. WarioWare. Metroid: Zero Mission. Play-Yan.

And the Brain-Age team who also developed English Training, Photo Dojo, Band Bros., AR Games, and more.

Game development at Nintendo is a lot more complex than listing all the games Miyamoto supervised.

This is a really good point.

 

[JaseC]

Nintendo doesn't release those numbers.

As I suspected.

We could try and guess by team size. Considering SSB Brawl had a staff of around 100, Zelda/Mario probably have around the same. Average japanese developer pay according to a quick google search is 57.5K x 100 is 5.8ish million in salary per year. Development time from 18-30 months.

So about 9 to 15 milllion in salaries not counting production/distribution/marketing which could be anything from 2-10 million more(just a guess)

A perfectly reasonable estimate.

With this in mind, saying that "few games" have a budget around such a ballpark seems like a rather large understatement.

 

[ace3skoot]

Heheh. May I amend "big names used appropriately"? As opposed to, say

Castlevania... the fighting game!
Soul Calibur... the action adventure!
Resident Evil... the lightgun game!
Dead Space... also the lightgun game!
Final Fantasy... the single-player spinoff of a multiplayer subseries!

see this here was the problem ( from a hardcore gamers perspective) with the Wii, basically no 3rd parties were willing to design ground up AAA titles, and quite frankly nintendo fucked up with the online strategy (well didn't really have one to fuck up) and no HDD

after the success of resident evil 4 port, practically everyone was dieing for a ground up game using the same engine, this is the kind of game that would build some kind of momentum but all capcom gave were the light gun games which really should have been 20 bucks download titles.

honestly i think Nintendo just need to swallow the bullet for cafe and money hat a few 3rd party core titles people will want to play, once the momentum is there with a half decent online infrastructure it will become self propelling, that’s my take anyway

 

[Grampa Simpson]

honestly i think Nintendo just need to swallow the bullet for cafe and money hat a few 3rd party core titles people will want to play, once the momentum is there with a half decent online infrastructure it will become self propelling, that’s my take anyway

They don't need too. They're going to be *very* easy to port to from the 360. Any game that's already going to a PS360 game will become - almost by default - PS360Cafe (need to find a better word for that) game. The 3rd parties' fear will drive them.

 

[Nemo]

They don't need too. They're going to be *very* easy to port to from the 360. Any game that's already going to a PS360 game will become - almost by default - PS360Cafe (need to find a better word for that) game. The 3rd parties' fear will drive them.

Fear of what? Easy porting doesn't automatically mean they'll do it. What if the cafe counterpart only sells a margin of the PS3 and 360 versions?

 

[M74]

PS360Cafe (need to find a better word for that)

PS-STREAM-60

 

[ace3skoot]

They don't need too. They're going to be *very* easy to port to from the 360. Any game that's already going to a PS360 game will become - almost by default - PS360Cafe (need to find a better word for that) game. The 3rd parties' fear will drive them.

well Nintendo don't "need" to change there strategy at all they are very profitable, but if they want to keep the core gamer happy I think they do need to pay out. If I can play the same game on 360 with a better online and similar graphics where is my incentive to buy a new machine? with a smaller install base as a developer, where the games will make less money?

If anything most developers want to stall the next gen tech, development is already too expensive, moving too fast can be a big gamble, it can par off dividends but its safer to wait and see, and this is the mentality which basically killed the Wii from a 3rd party perspective (obviously is wiped the floor in other ways)

 

[BlueSummers]

Ahh, you can always count on Amir0x to get into a heated debate in a Nintendo megathread.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

Fear of what? Easy porting doesn't automatically mean they'll do it. What if the cafe counterpart only sells a margin of the PS3 and 360 versions?

Fear of being irrelevant on what may be the the biggest selling platform of the upcoming generation. They already did it once with the Wii - they had completely dismissed it before it came out, and by the time they were convinced it was more than a fad, they addressed it inappropriately and fucked themselves. They fear being in that position twice.

That said, to answer your question, if games fail to sell, support will drop off quickly. At least for the first two holiday seasons there will be be very few PS360 games - there will be PStream60 games instead.

 

[From The Dust]

While multiplaform titles may struggle, the main draw of the system will have to be the original titles. If nintendo wants core gamers to migrate, they will need a large selection of core games that you cant get on the PS360. This is probably he biggest hurdle Nintendo has to face. With moneyhats, it may be an easier jump. Or they could do what they are doing now and liscense third parties to make games for Nintendo to publish. Whoever, I am not sure western third parties will bite as easily as Japanese third parties

 

[arab]

PROJECT HAMMER 4 wII

BELIEVE

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

PS-STREAM-60

PSTREAM60

 

[From The Dust]

PSTREAM60

heh, you said pee stream

 

[AceBandage]

PROJECT HAMMER 4 wII

BELIEVE

I have to wonder if NST will ever make a full console game again, actually.
After HAMMER was canceled/casualized, it seems like all they do is make little download handheld games.

 

[Negator]

So I'm just curious. What other anticipated games other than Zelda are really coming out for the Wii? I'm trying to look at other stuff on vgreleases.com but I see absolutely fucking nothing.

 

[ace3skoot]

While multiplaform titles may struggle, the main draw of the system will have to be the original titles. If nintendo wants core gamers to migrate, they will need a large selection of core games that you cant get on the PS360. This is probably he biggest hurdle Nintendo has to face. With moneyhats, it may be an easier jump. Or they could do what they are doing now and liscense third parties to make games for Nintendo to publish. Whoever, I am not sure western third parties will bite as easily as Japanese third parties

exactly the point i was trying to make but far more elegant

 

[AceBandage]

So I'm just curious. What other anticipated games other than Zelda are really coming out for the Wii? I'm trying to look at other stuff on vgreleases.com but I see absolutely fucking nothing.

Kirby
Rhythm Heaven
Xenoblade
DQX

That's pretty much it, baring any E3 announcements.

 

[ace3skoot]

So I'm just curious. What other anticipated games other than Zelda are really coming out for the Wii? I'm trying to look at other stuff on vgreleases.com but I see absolutely fucking nothing.

uh just dance 3...