Support NeoGAF

[Gospel]

I wish they made a third person metroid that was like dead space but wasn't dead space

like, you are metroid and you're on this big ass ship and it's really big so it's got all these things on it and you're supposed to explore it. later on in the game there's this big unkillable monster thing that follows you around on the ship like tyrant except it's different. anyway, i've said too much. when i grow up and work for nintendo i'll need to show them the rest of my ideas so i cant spoil them all here

 

[Amir0x]

It's Nintendo's Assassin's Creed. Nintendo, if you're listening, please make this happen.

why not, you know, just make an AC type game instead of once again being lazy and molesting one of their franchises again by attaching it to Zelda?

Let the whoring end

 

[timetokill]

why not, you know, just make an AC type game instead of once again being lazy and molesting one of their franchises again by attaching it to Zelda?

Let the whoring end

Wait, you'd prefer another Animal Crossing?

 

[Neiteio]

why not, you know, just make an AC type game instead of once again being lazy and molesting one of their franchises again by attaching it to Zelda?

Let the whoring end

Wanting new franchises is understandable, but so is wishing to tap the creative potential in an existing franchise. Luigi's Mansion could've been its own IP, but it had a distinct charm for being in the Mario-verse, while still feeling totally different from any Mario game prior (not just gameplay-wise, either; the atmosphere was at once Mario and, well, not).

In doing so, LM made the Mario-verse a larger, richer place than it already was. When I think of Mario's world, I now think of this substantial corner that is a haunted house on a hill. It added to the brand in a fresh way.

Similarly, we have Zelda here, with all these races and places and histories and a bestiary full of critters, many of which haven't been seen in awhile. And yet in all our encounters with them, it's always been the same deal -- collect three of this, collect a half-dozen that, talk to people here, solve puzzles there, etc. I'd love to get to experience that same world in a completely different way... at least once.

Might as well be as a ninja.

 

[Amir0x]

i'm sorry i've been to mario and zelda's universe eleventy billion times. the well is exhausted. i am tired of seeing these characters in every game. It's lazy and boring. That they're so high quality is something that occurs despite this fact, but is actually a strike against the games that utilize this fashion of whoring at this point. I deduct points from games for it.

Nintendo needs to strike out and make genuinely new hardcore shit unattached to any franchise they own and thus unattached to any expectations (and therefore limitations) attached to it, like every other company around

 

[wsippel]

While you are definitely right that a two year difference in technology really is not that much, I don't think that necessarily means that Nintendo's console won't be behind more than two years compared to Sony's and Microsoft's. If the past is anything to judge by, Nintendo will sell their system at a profit from the beginning, while MS/Sony will take the initial loss. This will result in a larger gap between the two consoles than there would be if the profit margin were the same for all 3.

Also, it looks as though Nintendo's controller solution will be more expensive than MS/Sony's, so that adds to the cost of what's in the box, restricting the amount of new technology they can put in the console itself.

Well, all the money in the world can't change the laws of physics. It doesn't matter how much more money Sony and MS might be willing to spend on the parts, all they can do is buy more transistors, which would increase the TDP.

 

[M74]

why not, you know, just make an AC type game instead of once again being lazy and molesting one of their franchises again by attaching it to Zelda?

Let the whoring end

Because they know a Sheik game will sell to fans. They also know people have been asking for it. They also have at least one team (Retro) who is, supposedly, willing to make it.

Nintendo not wrenching out every last drop of profitability from established universes? Hah.

 

[Neiteio]

I'm not sure what you mean by "every other company around" when sequelization is the name of the game in virtually every corner of the industry; we're at Part 4, Part 5 and even Part 6 with a lot of popular franchises. That being said, I'm not promoting sequelization in and of itself. I'm just saying, when the creative potential is there, tap it, and always bear in mind it doesn't have to be mutually exclusive from new IPs. You can have both sequels/spin-offs and new IPs; it doesn't have to be one and not the other. The fact that that's how Nintendo has been is a strike against Nintendo, but not a strike against their ability to do both, if only they would so choose.

TL, DR -- I'm not advocating no new IPs, I'm just saying I'm all for fresh takes on old worlds alongside them.

 

[grkazan12]

i'm sorry i've been to mario and zelda's universe eleventy billion times. the well is exhausted. i am tired of seeing these characters in every game. It's lazy and boring. That they're so high quality is something that occurs despite this fact, but is actually a strike against the games that utilize this fashion of whoring at this point. I deduct points from games for it.

Nintendo needs to strike out and make genuinely new hardcore shit unattached to any franchise they own and thus unattached to any expectations (and therefore limitations) attached to it, like every other company around

Amirox I don't mean to put you on the spot or anything , but I was wondering what you meant by hardcore? Serious in tone hardcore or just a new game meant for hardcore in terms of gameplay (not for casuals).

 

[Amir0x]

I'm not sure what you mean by "every other company around" when sequelization is the name of the game in virtually every corner of the industry; we're at Part 4, Part 5 and even Part 6 with a lot of popular franchises. That being said, I'm not promoting sequelization in and of itself. I'm just saying, when the creative potential is there, tap it, and always bear in mind it doesn't have to be mutually exclusive from new IPs. You can have both sequels/spin-offs and new IPs; it doesn't have to be one and not the other. The fact that that's how Nintendo has been is a strike against Nintendo, but not a strike against their ability to do both, if only they would so choose.

TL, DR -- I'm not advocating no new IPs, I'm just saying I'm all for fresh takes on old worlds alongside them.

I mean that it's ok to have sequels when you're also actively developing new hardcore Ips with the same budgets and marketing pushes as your established franchises.

It's much less irritating to revisit franchises when you have new stuff alongside it that is equally high effort.

For example, every generation Sony comes around to making tons of new hardcore IP which they then add to their arsenal. Some are good, some aren't, but they're always trying and they're always equally pushing to the hardcore and equally putting the money into it.

This gen alone, we got Uncharted, inFAMOUS, LittleBigPlanet, Resistance and Last Guardian is coming (even though it's "spiritually" related to the previous games) and countless others.

Nintendo, for their part, just gets to whoring out their franchises for a new round every new system they make.

 

[bgassassin]

i'm sorry i've been to mario and zelda's universe eleventy billion times. the well is exhausted. i am tired of seeing these characters in every game. It's lazy and boring. That they're so high quality is something that occurs despite this fact, but is actually a strike against the games that utilize this fashion of whoring at this point. I deduct points from games for it.

Nintendo needs to strike out and make genuinely new hardcore shit unattached to any franchise they own and thus unattached to any expectations (and therefore limitations) attached to it, like every other company around

You know you want Grand Theft Mario Kart.

 

[Neiteio]

I mean that it's ok to have sequels when you're also actively developing new hardcore Ips with the same budgets and marketing pushes as your established franchises.

It's much less irritating to revisit franchises when you have new stuff alongside it that is equally high effort.

For example, every generation Sony comes around to making tons of new hardcore IP which they then add to their arsenal. Some are good, some aren't, but they're always trying and they're always equally pushing to the hardcore and equally putting the money into it.

This gen alone, we got Uncharted, inFAMOUS, LittleBigPlanet, Resistance and Last Guardian is coming (even though it's "spiritually" related to the previous games) and countless others.

Nintendo, for their part, just gets to whoring out their franchises for a new round every new system they make.

I agree wholeheartedly re: Sony -- they have done a wonderful job in terms of expanding their portfolio of IPs. Sony, in general, is far less risk-adverse than Nintendo when it comes to games, and I commend them for that. The PS3 is my favorite current-gen system in part for this very reason; it's also one of the reasons I'll be watching the NGP with much interest even though, portable-wise, you know I'm quite happy with my 3DS.

That being said, it's hard to be too down on Nintendo for such of a large percentage of their crop being established IPs, when said games are by and large so damn good. I also don't know if, say, Kirby's Epic Yarn would've been that much better if it were a new IP as originally planned; ironically, for me at least, it breathed new life into Kirby that was desperately needed. I never cared for the bright pastels of Kirby's past, but the handmade look? Fantastic. Just an example of how sometimes, being different within an old IP "renews" it, in a way.

But in principle, I agree Nintendo should put effort equal to their Marios and Zeldas into new IPs. Trust me, I'd be first in line for a Miyamoto-made IP driven by characters as fresh in design as Samus with her citrus-colored armor and bio-mechanical worlds, with graphics that push the system and an orchestral soundtrack and deep gameplay spit-polished to a shine. I'm all for that.

So I agree -- I just -also- want them to explore some of their existing worlds in new ways. And, to bring things full-circle, running around the Zelda world as Sheik sounds like a lot of fun to me. It has ever since the rumors of a Retro-made Sheik title came and went all those months ago.

 

[AceBandage]

I dunno if Nintendo needs to JUST make new IPs.
They have a wealth of IPs they could tap into and breath new life.
I'd love to see them continue to revive classic franchises for modern gamers.
But, yes, we're getting spoiled on main-line Mario games recently.
I mean, 4 this last generation, and we're already getting another this year.

 

[Amir0x]

I agree wholeheartedly re: Sony -- they have done a wonderful job in terms of expanding their portfolio of IPs. Sony, in general, is far less risk-adverse than Nintendo when it comes to games, and I commend them for that. The PS3 is my favorite current-gen system in part for this very reason; it's also one of the reasons I'll be watching the NGP with much interest even though, portable-wise, you know I'm quite happy with my 3DS.

That being said, it's hard to be too down on Nintendo for such of a large percentage of their crop being established IPs, when said games are by and large so damn good. I also don't know if, say, Kirby's Epic Yarn would've been that much better if it were a new IP as originally planned; ironically, for me at least, it breathed new life into Kirby that was desperately needed. I never cared for the bright pastels of Kirby's past, but the handmade look? Fantastic. Just an example of how sometimes, being different within an old IP "renews" it, in a way.

But in principle, I agree Nintendo should put effort equal to their Marios and Zeldas into new IPs. Trust me, I'd be first in line for a Miyamoto-made IP driven by characters as fresh in design as Samus with her citrus-colored armor and bio-mechanical worlds, with graphics that push the system and an orchestral soundtrack and deep gameplay spit-polished to a shine. I'm all for that.

So I agree -- I just -also- want them to explore some of their existing worlds in new ways. And, to bring things full-circle, running around the Zelda world as Sheik sounds like a lot of fun to me. It has ever since the rumors of a Retro-made Sheik title came and went all those months ago.

yeah see i think maybe if it wasn't attached to Kirby it might have been better since it was so offensively easy as it is that I have to assume they might have felt less need to be so pathetically child proof or something

maybe that's just a wish. Pretty game, however, it was originally not a Kirby game and they should have stuck with that. They stuck Kirby into the concept AFTER it was already established as a yarn type game. So, it wasn't Kirby that made it new. It was Nintendo asserting their desire to whore one of their franchises at the last moment

 

[brochiller]

I don't know what the reason is for Nintendo not branching out and creating new, big time IP's is either. They have the resources and I'm sure they have the ideas knocking around. They just need to take the risk and invest in something that isn't guaranteed to sell off of its name alone.

 

[Neiteio]

yeah see i think maybe if it wasn't attached to Kirby it might have been better since it was so offensively easy as it is that I have to assume they might have felt less need to be so pathetically child proof or something

maybe that's just a wish. Pretty game, however, it was originally not a Kirby game and they should have stuck with that. They stuck Kirby into the concept AFTER it was already established as a yarn type game. So, it wasn't Kirby that made it new. It was Nintendo asserting their desire to whore one of their franchises at the last moment

I feel this is all true. The Kirby connection was just there to sell the game. But, like I said, for me personally, every Kirby game beforehand had looked exactly the same -- the DS games in particular blur together in my mind, stylistically -- so for me it felt like a nice change of pace, at least in look and feel. But thinking back on it, yeah -- maybe the game would've been harder if not for the Kirby label and, as you say, the expectations/demographic that come with it.

 

[wsippel]

i'm sorry i've been to mario and zelda's universe eleventy billion times. the well is exhausted. i am tired of seeing these characters in every game. It's lazy and boring. That they're so high quality is something that occurs despite this fact, but is actually a strike against the games that utilize this fashion of whoring at this point. I deduct points from games for it.

Nintendo needs to strike out and make genuinely new hardcore shit unattached to any franchise they own and thus unattached to any expectations (and therefore limitations) attached to it, like every other company around

So you say they should continue to do what they're already doing with Pandora's Tower, Xenoblade, Last Story and Reginleiv, just to name a few very recent examples?

 

[Wolves Evolve]

Guys this is all lovely but franchises sell, the Disney model works and Nintendo has a board of directors who are responsible to shareholders. I mean, if you want innovation in animation it doesn't come from Disney or Pixar. Same expectations should go with Nintendo. High polish, traditional concepts. (If anybody goes blah blah Pixar is inventive, I will leap through time and space to tear your face off.)

 

[Amir0x]

I feel this is all true. The Kirby connection was just there to sell the game. But, like I said, for me personally, every Kirby game beforehand had looked exactly the same -- the DS games in particular blur together in my mind, stylistically -- so for me it felt like a nice change of pace, at least in look and feel. But thinking back on it, yeah -- maybe the game would've been harder if not for the Kirby label and, as you say, the expectations/demographic that come with it.

The only Kirby game I ever liked was on the DS and it was called Canvas Curse. It was also to this day one of the only purely stylus based games I loved. Perhaps not coincidentally, it also had an art style that was pretty unique and distinct from other Kirby titles.

So you say they should continue to do what they're already doing with Pandora's Tower, Xenoblade, Last Story and Reginleiv, just to name a few very recent examples?

You mean three games that are never coming to America and two others that are comically low budget, received next to no marketing and are also reported to be of awful low quality? Also, Last Story is not developed by Nintendo.

News Flash: People are not retarded. They know when you're not trying. Nintendo is not trying on Wii.

Guys this is all lovely but franchises sell, the Disney model works and Nintendo has a board of directors who are responsible to shareholders. I mean, if you want innovation in animation it doesn't come from Disney or Pixar. Same expectations should go with Nintendo. High polish, traditional concepts. (If anybody goes blah blah Pixar is inventive, I will leap through time and space to tear your face off.)

That's funny. Because even though you tried to deny the argument, it is true - Pixar is amazingly inventive and creates new and fresh ideas that are heads and tails above their closest CG animated competitors. Only right now they're in a rut of sequels with Toy Story 3, Monsters Inc. 2 and Cars 2. Since they don't usually sequel all year long, though, it's hardly annoying at all. They'll move beyond it shortly, however.

 

[Neiteio]

So you say they should continue to do what they're already doing with Pandora's Tower, Xenoblade, Last Story and Reginleiv, just to name a few very recent examples?

It's easy to forget those when NOA isn't pulling its weight and none of those have jumped the pond yet. But I guess those would count as new Nintendo IPs. Still, the HOLY GRAIL would be for Nintendo EAD to make a 100 percent brand-new franchise with the budget and dev cycle and promotional push of a Mario or Zelda. Imagine Nintendo EAD Tokyo being told: "OK, guys, you're off the Mario hook -- make whatever you dream of in your wildest imaginings." The downside to this, of course, is that the next great Mario title would come later rather than sooner.

Spoiler

But we need a breather anyhow.

 

[brochiller]

So you say they should continue to do what they're already doing with Pandora's Tower, Xenoblade, Last Story and Reginleiv, just to name a few very recent examples?

This is completely different than what I think most people want to see. I want to see one of Nintendo's premiere teams, such as EAD Tokyo, given the time and budget to develop a game that they want to develop that has nothing to do with an existing franchise. I'd love to see what they could do with a blank slate.

 

[AceBandage]

How about a new Marvelous.

 

[Delio]

News Flash: People are not retarded. They know when you're not trying. Nintendo is not trying on Wii..

They probably wont be trying on the Cafe either. I hope people are prepared for that or will they just suck it up and buy the next mario game just because it's in HD!.

 

[Neiteio]

This is completely different than what I think most people want to see. I want to see one of Nintendo's premiere teams, such as EAD Tokyo, given the time and budget to develop a game that they want to develop that has nothing to do with an existing franchise. I'd love to see what they could do with a blank slate.

Retro too, for that matter.

Hell, let Nintendo's first-party teams make all-new, big-budget, hardcore IPs, and let third-parties take a crack at Nintendo's established properties.

Spoiler

Like Platinum Games making SHEIK.

 

[watershed]

All good points, but my gamer empathy tells me people are still stung by how Metroid Other M -- basically a case of Cherished Franchise handled by outsiders -- left the franchise in a bit of a funk.

Man some aspects of other m were so good it sucks that the game was weak overall.

 

[flintstryker]

News Flash: People are not retarded.

In my experience this has not been true for the most part :/

 

[brochiller]

Retro too, for that matter.

Hell, let Nintendo's first-party teams make all-new, big-budget, hardcore IPs, and let third-parties take a crack at Nintendo's established properties.

Spoiler

Like Platinum Games making SHEIK.

I actually wouldn't have a problem with that at all. Hell, they could let Mario and Zelda rest for a few years if it meant we got something new.

 

[Big One]

You mean three games that are never coming to America and two others that are comically low budget, received next to no marketing and are also reported to be of awful low quality? Also, Last Story is not developed by Nintendo.

Reginleiv, The Last Story, and Xenoblade hasn't been reported to be "awful" aside from a few posters on GAF. Why would you believe in the minority over the majority? You seem awfully jaded on this subject

 

[Amir0x]

They probably wont be trying on the Cafe either. I hope people are prepared for that or will they just suck it up and buy the next mario game just because it's in HD!.

I personally think so far from what we're hearing Nintendo is going to put considerably more effort behind things, at least as far as appeasing my type of taste.

But, who knows, maybe I'm being optimistic for the wrong reasons. I like where the 3DS is going too, though, once the games finally start coming, so maybe Nintendo is slowly starting to turn the corner for me.

Reginleiv, The Last Story, and Xenoblade hasn't been reported to be "awful" aside from a few posters on GAF. Why would you believe in the minority over the majority? You seem awfully jaded on this subject

Reginleiv and Last Story both have had very very seriously negative impressions, and most certainly NOT a minority. In both some do like them, but even their opinions are not effusive in quality telling me they're not special Nintendo-quality games. They're low tier efforts. Regin and Pandora are the one with the obviously comically shit budgets, though.

 

[xvszero]

News Flash: People are not retarded. They know when you're not trying. Nintendo is not trying on Wii.

I wish I could not try and end up with Super Mario Galaxy.

 

[Gvaz]

A few first party games does not mean the wii as a whole is a winner.

 

[AceBandage]

A few first party games does not mean the wii as a whole is a winner.

Eh?

 

[Gvaz]

It sounded like he was retorting to the question that nintendo wasn't trying by pointing to SMG, and I was saying a few high production first party wii games does not a good range of games make.

 

[Amir0x]

I wish I could not try and end up with Super Mario Galaxy.

i wish i could not understand context in the English language and thus not realize the whole point of this conversation is new hardcore IPs and those are what we're talking about them not trying hard about.

but heh sorry I can read so

Even though, on that other hand too, I'd say they've generally tried very little too. Only Super Mario Galaxy series is a ground-up Wii game from Nintendo aimed at the hardcore that has really been anything special so far. Others are good, but were repurposed Gamecube titles so they're really from Gamecube-era Nintendo, like Fire Emblem and Super Paper Mario. Sin & Punishment 2 is good too if you count that as a Nintendo game and I'll give them Wario Shake Dimension too

 

[Lonewolf_92]

Where did you hear this and/or what gives you the validity to say this?

Fudzilla reported it. From what I understand (from what was said in the other thread) it's a fairly reparable hardware tech site.

Damn we are derailing hard...
I think Cafe should actually keep the wiimote speaker.

Personally, I hope they get a better speaker going, but I share your sentiments. If the streaming rumors are true, it's practically a given it'll have some sort of speaker system built in. Which gives me an idea, how cool would it be for a Fallout game where the controller in the PIPBoy? With speakers, it could cover every function of the in-game one right down to the radio. The wind whistling and desolate sounds of the Wastelands all around you from your set's surround sound, with this tiny little radio playing in your hands, like a lifeline leading you to life and civilization.

 

[Neiteio]

I actually wouldn't have a problem with that at all. Hell, they could let Mario and Zelda rest for a few years if it meant we got something new.

I'm still reeling from the fact we got a sequel to Galaxy as soon as we did. Heck, I'm reeling we got a sequel to Galaxy at all, on the same system. SMG2 was great, though.

What really needs to rest is Zelda. TP burned me out, big time. PH is a chore -- magnetically tugging Link to my stylus took away the No. 1 thing I love about Zelda, namely, control -- and I didn't even bother with Spirit Tracks, though I admired some of its creative concepts from afar (character-wise, etc). Really, I think the only thing that could rejuvenate Zelda for me right now would be a new Wind Waker, and by that I mean a console Zelda cel-shaded in the same manner, with Moblins just as comically lively, colors just as solid and charm just as abundant. TWW is the quintessential case of, "I know what to fix and I so badly want to fix it because the game is otherwise just. So. Perfect."

Since we won't get that TWW successor, though, I'd rather they take a break. Skyward Sword looks extremely promising from a gameplay standpoint, but I'm still not feeling the muted colors; everything looks white-washed, like it's fading. And the geometry in the worlds looks questionable, a step backwards from TWW, a GCN game. I know it's rendering vast spaces with actual terrain instead of ocean, but still... They should've just saved it for Cafe. Give me a chance to miss it.

 

[Big One]

Reginleiv and Last Story both have had very very seriously negative impressions, and most certainly NOT a minority. In both some do like them, but even their opinions are not effusive in quality telling me they're not special Nintendo-quality games. They're low tier efforts. Regin and Pandora are the one with the obviously comically shit budgets, though.

Yeah no, the majority of the impressions for both have been pretty positive, it's just the vocal ones (Bepbo's impressions) that seem to be negative. There's definitely valid complaints with both however but they weren't negatively received by the majority of people who purchased or even reviewed the games. You also have to equate people who've played it outside of GAF

 

[Amir0x]

Yeah no, the majority of the impressions for both have been pretty positive, it's just the vocal ones (Bepbo's impressions) that seem to be negative. There's definitely valid complaints with both however but they weren't negatively received by the majority of people who purchased or even reviewed the games. You also have to equate people who've played it outside of GAF

I've read impressions of both games extensively, particularly Last Story which I was massively anticipating (and, in some ways, still do want). Sorry, Big One, the overwhelming impressive is of low tier efforts. Not AAA or even A; more like low Bs or high C efforts. Certainly not what we should qualify Nintendo for "trying."

 

[xvszero]

i wish i could not understand context in the English language and thus not realize the whole point of this conversation is new hardcore IPs and those are what we're talking about them not trying hard about.

but heh sorry I can read so

Even though, on that other hand too, I'd say they've generally tried very little too. Only Super Mario Galaxy series is a ground-up Wii game from Nintendo aimed at the hardcore that has really been anything special so far. Others are good, but were repurposed Gamecube titles so they're really from Gamecube-era Nintendo, like Fire Emblem and Super Paper Mario. Sin & Punishment 2 is good too if you count that as a Nintendo game and I'll give them Wario Shake Dimension too

In that case you're right, Nintendo isn't trying to make a bunch of new "hardcore" (whatever that means) IPs. They tend to rely on their staples and have ever since the N64. People shouldn't still be shocked by this.

 

[Delio]

I personally think so far from what we're hearing Nintendo is going to put considerably more effort behind things, at least as far as appeasing my type of taste.

But, who knows, maybe I'm being optimistic for the wrong reasons. I like where the 3DS is going too, though, once the games finally start coming, so maybe Nintendo is slowly starting to turn the corner for me..

We will see i have only faith in a few games from Nintendo so yeah.

 

[timetokill]

I don't buy that Nintendo doesn't try new things. That's ridiculous -- they try a ton of new things. And it's their franchises that actually allows them to do such experimentation with gameplay ideas.

The entire reason they use their franchises on these games is to lower risk for both themselves and the consumer. Consumers see the familiar franchise and are willing to try the game, even if it might be outside their typical genre comfort-zone, because they recognize the franchise and feel more comfortable with it. Typically if they see Mario's face they know they can expect a certain level of quality.

That means Nintendo can make a tennis or soccer game and not worry about it being overlooked by their fans or others. It also helps inform the consumer what they're getting into. Seeing Mario on a soccer game lets me know it's going to be a fun, arcade-style take on the sport, and not a simulation.

All of that said, Amirox, do you also similarly abhor games like Excite Truck simply because they have the "Excite" name, even though "Excite" doesn't really represent a game world/universe but rather a style of play?


Edit: Also I should say that I would also like Nintendo to work on some new IPs for core gamers -- I was hoping Steel Diver could be such an attempt. No idea about that Pandora game or whatever it is. But I do think that they will probably do so more on their next platforms.

 

[wsippel]

This is completely different than what I think most people want to see. I want to see one of Nintendo's premiere teams, such as EAD Tokyo, given the time and budget to develop a game that they want to develop that has nothing to do with an existing franchise. I'd love to see what they could do with a blank slate.

I definitely consider Monolith a "Nintendo premiere team" after Soma Bringer and Xenoblade, which is regarded by many as one of the best, if not the very best JRPG of the whole generation. But yes, I wouldn't mind new IPs by EAD Tokyo or Intelligent Systems, either.

 

[Big One]

I've read impressions of both games extensively. Sorry, Big One, the overwhelming impressive is of low tier efforts. Not AAA or even A; more like low Bs or high C efforts. Certainly not what we should qualify Nintendo for "trying."

Hey I didn't argue against that, what I am arguing is that you seem to suggest any of those games weren't well received for the most part. A B and C effort is still a good game. As for Nintendo "trying" the problem this would cause is that - due to the very small sizes of the inhouse development teams - they'd have to abandoned real money making franchises in favor of creating a new, big IP. You have to remember that while Nintendo products print money, they aren't making million(s) dollar budget games like most "must-have" current gen games have. The only way Nintendo could overcome this problem is to simply hiring more developers with bigger budgets, and continue to expand their audiences (which is what I think they're trying to do with games like TLS, etc.). You also have to consider how difficult it must be to create a character as recognizable as Mario, Link, Pikachu, Donkey Kong, etc. enough for Nintendo to even consider trying to reach to those levels.

 

[Eteric Rice]

Nintendo needs to clone the Galaxy team.

It's the only way!

 

[mr_nothin]

Hey I didn't argue against that, what I am arguing is that you seem to suggest any of those games weren't well received for the most part. A B and C effort is still a good game. As for Nintendo "trying" the problem this would cause is that - due to the very small sizes of the inhouse development teams - they'd have to abandoned real money making franchises in favor of creating a new, big IP. You have to remember that while Nintendo products print money, they aren't making million(s) dollar budget games like most "must-have" current gen games have. The only way Nintendo could overcome this problem is to simply hiring more developers with bigger budgets, and continue to expand their audiences (which is what I think they're trying to do with games like TLS, etc.). You also have to consider how difficult it must be to create a character as recognizable as Mario, Link, Pikachu, Donkey Kong, etc. enough for Nintendo to even consider trying to reach to those levels.

If there's ANY videogame company/developer that's in the position to venture out and try new IPs...it's Nintendo. Do you know how much money they are sitting on? They have ALOT of cushion room to go out and take risks. The Wii has basically been selling at a profit for the whole generation. Money isn't the issue. Nintendo can afford to expand.

It's just a matter of:
1) Do we take a little bit less of a profit and try out some new IPs?
2) Do we stick to what we've been doing and keep profit at the absolute maximum (which is good business sense)?

Nintendo sticks to #2 at all costs.

 

[Big One]

Yeah Nintendo is really safe when it comes to software. Of course at the same time that's pretty much what has kept them alive for 20+ years.

 

[marc^o^]

The dual screen could prove very helpful in a game like PES: a wide camera angle on the TV and a closer view of the action for dribbles (even a 1st person view for shots) on the controller. Would it be feasible based on what we know?

 

[Amir0x]

I don't buy that Nintendo doesn't try new things. That's ridiculous -- they try a ton of new things. And it's their franchises that actually allows them to do such experimentation with gameplay ideas.

The entire reason they use their franchises on these games is to lower risk for both themselves and the consumer. Consumers see the familiar franchise and are willing to try the game, even if it might be outside their typical genre comfort-zone, because they recognize the franchise and feel more comfortable with it. Typically if they see Mario's face they know they can expect a certain level of quality.

That means Nintendo can make a tennis or soccer game and not worry about it being overlooked by their fans or others. It also helps inform the consumer what they're getting into. Seeing Mario on a soccer game lets me know it's going to be a fun, arcade-style take on the sport, and not a simulation.

All of that said, Amirox, do you also similarly abhor games like Excite Truck simply because they have the "Excite" name, even though "Excite" doesn't really represent a game world/universe but rather a style of play?


Edit: Also I should say that I would also like Nintendo to work on some new IPs for core gamers -- I was hoping Steel Diver could be such an attempt. No idea about that Pandora game or whatever it is. But I do think that they will probably do so more on their next platforms.

Excite doesn't really have any iconic characters and worlds and they hardly ever make those games so it's hardly as offensive as playing yet another Mario title and knowing there's going to be Toadstools and turtle shells and fucking Mushroom Kingdom and blah blah blah.

It's an excuse to be creatively bankrupt and lazy and reuse assets while simultaneously ensuring their legion of zombie-like fans pick it up for no reason other than the satisfying security blanket-esque knowledge that they're finally home again so they can pan the camera and look up Princess Peach's skirt.

Again, though, the problem isn't that they make sequels or that they neverendingly whore their franchises. Well, more accurately, that isn't the sole problem. I mean yes attaching to these franchises means certain tone, certain level of aesthetic leeway, certain expectations - it restricts what you can do. It impacts aspects of the game like music and visuals and even type of gameplay quirks (hey do you know that Mario is gonna shoot fire in Tennis!? How novel!). It's all oppressively limiting.

With genuinely new, hardcore IPs - with the same effort and money as a Zelda and Mario game - they can strike out and use that astounding talent we all know they have when they're on their best behavior and make something truly new and groundbreaking without the restraints of lesser men. It's not hard, it's not an unreasonable expectation. Nintendo is wildly successful and their competitors do just that all the time. They don't exist in a vacuum so Nintendo better learn to compete at some point.

It's frustrating also because Nintendo, as a developer, is easily the most talented of the three. It's not even close. But because of their self-inflicted franchise whoring wound, they are always limiting their potential. They occasionally break out of the doldrums with something truly groundbreaking like Super Mario Galaxy (which, not coincidentally, was also aesthetically the most unique of all Mario games - not just GRASS, LAVA, ICE, but wildly original worlds with incredible variety and new enemies of all types and the pleasant little homages that made you smile instead of just feeling like they're being cloyingly old school again), but they have a way better chance when they make new things. Pikmin and Pikmin 2 as well as Chibi Robo, for example, remain some of the best Nintedno games ever made. That was only a gen ago. They have it in them.

 

[xvszero]

Excite doesn't really have any iconic characters and worlds and they hardly ever make those games

There are 3 new "Excite" games on Wii, not sure I'd call that hardly. Actually it surprised me, considering the franchise doesn't sell very well.

 

[Instro]

Well we'll probably find out at E3 if Nintendo is interested in doing some new core IPs again, new consoles are always a good time to go for it. Almost all the new IPs for the Wii were related to casual stuff which was a shame, so hopefully they turn that around a bit.