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[wwm0nkey]

So who here also thinks BF3 will come out on the new Nintendo system?

 

[Haunted]

courtesy of _dk after finishing Killzone 3 co-op with me: "Maybe it has Blu-Ray so I can sell my PS3"

 

[Effect]

I'm still very impressed by the lack of software leaks, especially considering the fact that EA Sports already established Café teams at some point between early 2008 and November 2009 according to the former EA Montreal Nintendo Group boss. EA was probably among the first to know about the system, but they were probably not the only 3rd party to know about this for at least 16 months.

The contracts Nintendo has to have with publishers/developers must have some serious legal repercussions in place.

That and/or publishers must have dropped the hammer down to the point that if a leak takes place before E3 people (plural not singular) will be fired.

 

[wsippel]

Source?

Joe Booth (now at MSGS) mentioned it during a presentation at Montreal International Games Summit 2009. I'm afraid the PDF containing the slides is no longer available after the organizers redesigned their website.

 

[Emitan]

Complete with art mokups being passed off as screens?
I wouldn't doubt it.

You mean the Wii doesn't have PS3 level graphics? But those were totally real Red Steel screenshots!

 

[From The Dust]

courtesy of _dk after finishing Killzone 3 co-op with me: "Maybe it has Blu-Ray so I can sell my PS3"

blue laser tech? yea maybe. licensed blu-ray? nope

 

[AceBandage]

Joe Booth (now at MSGS) mentioned it during a presentation at Montreal International Games Summit 2009. I'm afraid the PDF containing the slides is no longer available after the organizers redesigned their website.

Wait... Cafe teams were being formed in 2009?
I know that console makers plan far ahead, but that's just crazy...

 

[Lonewolf_92]

I'm still very impressed by the lack of software leaks, especially considering the fact that EA Sports already established Café teams at some point between early 2008 and November 2009 according to the former EA Montreal Nintendo Group boss. EA was probably among the first to know about the system, but they were probably not the only 3rd party to know about this for at least 16 months.

The french Ubisoft leaker is probably floating down the river as we speak after getting a visit from the Nintendo ninjas.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

You mean the Wii doesn't have PS3 level graphics? But those were totally real Red Steel screenshots!

Fuck, I still can't believe that entire reveal was bull. And I believed it!

 

[AceBandage]

Fuck, I still can't believe that entire reveal was bull. And I believed it!

That was the point in my gaming life when my seething hatred for Ubisoft started.
By Far Cry Instinct, it was full blown.

 

[Emitan]

That was the point in my gaming life when my seething hatred for Ubisoft started.
By Far Cry Instinct, it was full blown.

My hatred started after buying Red Steel at launch and having nothing to do but stare at the box in wonder until I finally managed to find a Wii months later. It was not a happy realization.

 

[Penguin]

Complete with art mokups being passed off as screens?
I wouldn't doubt it.

There's just something magical about a console launch.

I remember when the GameCube was first announced, there was this museum heist game that was announced, and got all this attention.

And then it was never heard of again... reminds me of Nibris and Sadness.

 

[Cerebral Assassin]

I'm still very impressed by the lack of software leaks, especially considering the fact that EA Sports already established Café teams at some point between early 2008 and November 2009 according to the former EA Montreal Nintendo Group boss. EA was probably among the first to know about the system, but they were probably not the only 3rd party to know about this for at least 16 months.

Are we sure that he wasn't referring to the 3DS?

 

[AceBandage]

My hatred started after buying Red Steel at launch and having nothing to do but stare at the box in wonder until I finally managed to find a Wii months later. It was not a happy realization.

I am so sorry...
Should have gotten Excite Trucks!

 

[wsippel]

Wait... Cafe teams were being formed in 2009?
I know that console makers plan far ahead, but that's just crazy...

Not that crazy. Ubisoft was working on at least one PS3 game in 2004: Killing Day. It never saw the light of day, though. I also wouldn't rule out that Café was initially scheduled for release this fall, but got delayed until 2012 because the 3DS missed the last holiday season.

 

[From The Dust]

Wait... Cafe teams were being formed in 2009?
I know that console makers plan far ahead, but that's just crazy...

all I heard was nintendo was shopping around E3 last year. 2009 is rather crazy. however some developers announced they were preparing for the next gen (Squeenix, Epic). how they do this without dev kits, I'm not sure

 

[Emitan]

I am so sorry...
Should have gotten Excite Trucks!

Don't worry. I did. And loved it. Red Steel's multiplayer was kind of fun though. It feels like a lazy cash in of Goldeneye, but still fun.

 

[yoopoo]

Are we sure that he wasn't referring to the 3DS?

I he was then EA would've released something else besides a vanilla version of Madden on 3DS.

 

[Emitan]

I he was then EA would've released something else besides a vanilla version of Madden on 3DS.

They were making some "My Garden" game or something like that.

 

[AceBandage]

You know, it is weird that developers might have had Cafe kits before 3DS kits (which seems to be the case either way).
Ugh, E3 is so far away!

 

[Cerebral Assassin]

I he was then EA would've released something else besides a vanilla version of Madden on 3DS.

I suppose, I just don't quite understand how dev kits(or target specs) were were out there for a "core" focused machine whilst simultaneously a handheld was being developed that can't run a version of UE3.

 

[Emitan]

You know, it is weird that developers might have had Cafe kits before 3DS kits (which seems to be the case either way).
Ugh, E3 is so far away!

Brink and my backlog will sustain me until E3. I hope. If we get some huge leak about Cafe I think I will die. Any more info will get me too hyped.

 

[Nirolak]

Wait... Cafe teams were being formed in 2009?
I know that console makers plan far ahead, but that's just crazy...

Publishers need to know that far in advanced in order to free up or hire teams for game development on the platform.

If you don't do this, you end up with the launch line-up of the 3DS.

The reason we don't see software leaks though is because then a publisher incriminates themselves as the source of the leak.

Hence this is why Animal Crossing was the only leaked piece of Nintendo 3DS software, since that wasn't traceable to a specific publisher.

 

[AceBandage]

I suppose, I just don't quite understand how dev kits(or target specs) were were out there for a "core" focused machine whilst simultaneously a handheld was being developed that can't run a version of UE3.

Because they know they can win in the handheld market through shear force, simply because there isn't the cutthroat competition that exists on consoles.
Japan will support whatever Nintendo puts out, which will give the system plenty of life.

With Cafe, to stay relevant longer, they have to make things more equal. They have to pander to Western developers more, which means higher specs and more shinies.

Publishers need to know that far in advanced in order to free up or hire teams for game development on the platform.

If you don't do this, you end up with the launch line-up of the 3DS.

Right. It seems out of character for Nintendo, which is (in this case) a good thing. Whatever they can do to make third parties happy is a plus.

 

[Boney]

all I heard was nintendo was shopping around E3 last year. 2009 is rather crazy. however some developers announced they were preparing for the next gen (Squeenix, Epic). how they do this without dev kits, I'm not sure

Just like they started working on FFXIII on PC at first.

 

[From The Dust]

Just like they started working on FFXIII on PC at first.

makes sense.

 

[Nirolak]

makes sense.

Also on this note, if it really is a three core IBM chip with a relative standard ATI graphics card, Unreal Engine 3 (and any other PC or Xbox 360 centric engine) should run incredibly well on the thing, making ports extremely easy for much of the industry.

The only ports that would be complicated are games made exclusively with the PS3's architecture in mind, which are very few and mostly come from Sony or are niche Japanese titles.

 

[Boney]

makes sense.

you're damn right

 

[Father_Brain]

Because they know they can win in the handheld market through shear force, simply because there isn't the cutthroat competition that exists on consoles.
Japan will support whatever Nintendo puts out, which will give the system plenty of life.

With Cafe, to stay relevant longer, they have to make things more equal. They have to pander to Western developers more, which means higher specs and more shinies.

To put this more bluntly: Western third parties are thoroughly incapable of taking handhelds seriously. Nintendo would have gained very little from them in terms of quality support no matter how much effort they put into courting them, and making 3DS powerful enough to meet Epic's minimum specs for UE3 likely would have reduced battery life even further.

 

[Nirolak]

To put this more bluntly: Western third parties are thoroughly incapable of taking handhelds seriously. Nintendo would have gained very little from them in terms of quality support no matter how much effort they put into courting them, and making 3DS powerful enough to meet Epic's minimum specs for UE3 likely would have reduced battery life even further.

I think the one counter argument to this is that the iPhone and iPad are actually seeing pretty serious support from publishers like EA, Ubisoft, and to an extent, Take-Two, while also seeing serious support from notable independent developers like Epic.

Now Western publishers seem so interested that GameStop is even thinking about making their own tablet and retail section to support them: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/33925/Interview_Tony_Bartel_On_GameStops_New_Digital_Strategy.php

Had it not been for this, I would have been inclined to agree with you.

 

[Pimpbaa]

I am so sorry...
Should have gotten Excite Trucks!

Man, it would be so awesome if there was a Excite Trucks sequel for Project Cafe. Do it Nintendo!

 

[Boney]

I think the one counter argument to this is that the iPhone and iPad are actually seeing pretty serious support from publishers like EA, Ubisoft, and to an extent, Take-Two, while also seeing serious support from notable independent developers like Epic.

Had it not been for this, I would have been inclined to agree with you.

off topic, how is the dead space game?

 

[magash]

I think the one counter argument to this is that the iPhone and iPad are actually seeing pretty serious support from publishers like EA, Ubisoft, and to an extent, Take-Two, while also seeing serious support from notable independent developers like Epic.

Had it not been for this, I would have been inclined to agree with you.

So in essence Western devs are once again showing their lack of business acumen. One of the greatest tragedies of the gaming industry is the lack of good support by 3rd party devs that wasn't shown to dedicated handheld gaming machines (especially the ds)

 

[Nirolak]

off topic, how is the dead space game?

Unfortunately I never got to try it myself, but reviewers seemed to really like it: http://www.metacritic.com/game/ios/dead-space-for-ipad

 

[AceBandage]

I think the one counter argument to this is that the iPhone and iPad are actually seeing pretty serious support from publishers like EA, Ubisoft, and to an extent, Take-Two, while also seeing serious support from notable independent developers like Epic.

Now Western publishers seem so interested that GameStop is even thinking about making their own tablet and retail section to support them: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/33925/Interview_Tony_Bartel_On_GameStops_New_Digital_Strategy.php

Had it not been for this, I would have been inclined to agree with you.

Though, to be fair, they're mostly low budget games or ports of DS/PSP games as it is.
I mean, even before smart phones, most of those studios were making cheap games to play on cells.

 

[Poyunch]

off topic, how is the dead space game?

It's okay. Game progression can be a bit repetitive and the controls can be obnoxious with the small screen. Playing it on an iPad might make the control problems go away but I don't own one. It at least looks great in parts although textures can get ugly.

Um I bought it at full price and I don't regret it but I would have preferred to wait on a sale.

 

[Nirolak]

One note though since people were fast enough to beat my stealth edit is that GameSpot's heavy push into tablets could have an interesting side effect in causing publishers to create lots of multiplatform handheld games, since they're already making higher production value iPad games.

With a retail presence, this should allow the price point to go up, causing the development possibilities to go up, and continue trending up until it looks like a good idea to put the games on multiple platforms to maximize profit.

 

[AceBandage]

One note though since people were fast enough to beat my stealth edit is that GameSpot's heavy push into tablets could have an interesting side effect in causing publishers to create lots of multiplatform handheld games, since they're already making higher production value iPad games and now the price point of them should go up with heavy retail support, supporting even greater production values.

I wonder how an audience that is use to paying nothing/99 cents will react to suddenly having $30-40 games everywhere...

 

[Nirolak]

I wonder how an audience that is use to paying nothing/99 cents will react to suddenly having $30-40 games everywhere...

That's the big risk.

If Sony and Nintendo can get their online shops healthy though, they might be able to settle on selling lots of $10-$15 games, essentially meeting half way.

 

[AceBandage]

That's the big risk.

If Sony and Nintendo can get their online shops healthy though, they might be able to settle on selling lots of $10-$15 games, essentially meeting half way.

Yeah, I could see that happening.
Speaking of which, tomorrow is May 1st (at least, in my part of the world). eShop should be up in a few weeks.

 

[Emitan]

If the iPad starts getting a lot of titles with real effort behind them I just might buy one. I'd love for it to become a "real platform" to me.

 

[Father_Brain]

I think the one counter argument to this is that the iPhone and iPad are actually seeing pretty serious support from publishers like EA, Ubisoft, and to an extent, Take-Two, while also seeing serious support from notable independent developers like Epic.

Now Western publishers seem so interested that GameStop is even thinking about making their own tablet and retail section to support them: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/33925/Interview_Tony_Bartel_On_GameStops_New_Digital_Strategy.php

Had it not been for this, I would have been inclined to agree with you.

Epic has Infinity Blade, and EA has Dead Space and (to a lesser degree) Mirror's Edge. I can't think of anything I'd consider "serious support" from Ubisoft and Take Two; the former has its usual parade of Gameloft-developed console spinoffs, and the latter has two DS ports. Am I forgetting anything?

I also don't think that developing low-priced, low-budgeted software for iDevices necessarily indicates any interest in developing for a dedicated gaming handheld, save as a platform to port said iDevice software to. After all, how many of those iOS games are being developed by the same staff that does console games? I'm under the impression that by and large, they're from the same divisions at said publishers that have always handled mobile development, which historically hasn't translated into support for dedicated handhelds.

 

[Nirolak]

Yeah, I could see that happening.
Speaking of which, tomorrow is May 1st (at least, in my part of the world). eShop should be up in a few weeks.

Oh, there is one other possibility I forgot.

If the 3DS and/or NGP eShops can support the $10-$15 price point, they should be able to support XBLA/PSN games as well, as long as they are scalable to the hardware.

It was a lot harder and costlier to sell those games as $30/$40 retail titles before, but an active eShop should make this a lot more attractive.

 

[Emitan]

Oh, there is one other possibility I forgot.

If the 3DS and/or NGP eShops can support the $10-$15 price point, they should be able to support XBLA/PSN games as well, as long as they are scalable to the hardware.

It was a lot harder and costlier to sell those games as $30/$40 retail titles before, but an active eShop should make this a lot more attractive.

Isn't Nintendo against $15 games? Just browsing the Shop Channel on the Wii I don't recall seeing anything that looks like it has the scope or value of many XBLA and PSN titles.

 

[AceBandage]

Really hoping Nintendo really did learn from WiiWare/DSiWare for the eShop.
So far from what we've seen, it's a hell of a lot better, with integrated trailers and ratings and possibly demos.

Isn't Nintendo against $15 games? Just browsing the Shop Channel on the Wii I don't recall seeing anything that looks like it has the scope or value of many XBLA and PSN titles.

There are several $15 games on WiiWare. The problem wasn't the price, though, it was size restrictions. 40MB isn't a lot of room to work with. They've supposedly fixed with this the eShop, though.

 

[Boney]

coolio about the dead space, would love to get my mitts around it.

Oh yeah the eshop is gonna come soon. Those fuckers better not think of making me pay for an alarm clock

 

[From The Dust]

Really hoping Nintendo really did learn from WiiWare/DSiWare for the eShop.
So far from what we've seen, it's a hell of a lot better, with integrated trailers and ratings and possibly demos.

PilotWings Demo may be testement to what we could see. I'm hoping permanet demos instead of rotating ones

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

Really hoping Nintendo really did learn from WiiWare/DSiWare for the eShop.
So far from what we've seen, it's a hell of a lot better, with integrated trailers and ratings and possibly demos.

My biggest concern is size caps. 40MB was ridiculous for WiiWare, 3DS better get to at least a good 250MB+.

 

[Emitan]

There are several $15 games on WiiWare. The problem wasn't the price, though, it was size restrictions. 40MB isn't a lot of room to work with. They've supposedly fixed with this the eShop, though.

Totally forgot about the size restriction. I wonder what the Cafe's shop will be like if it's not gimped. My favorite part of this gen has been XBLA so if the Cafe can be a great platform for downloadable games this will be an amazing console for me. It would make me feel more comfortable with my vow to not buy the next Xbox and Playstation.

I don't know about being "against" - I think it's more the case that the 40MB limit puts a cap on quite how much content and flash developers can put into their WiiWare titles (and DSiWare has a similar limitation, IIRC).

I remember them saying something about how they like the $5-$8 games on WiiWare and $50 boxed releases and they sort of implied that they thought $15 games underminded the $50 retail copies.

 

[Cosmonaut X]

Isn't Nintendo against $15 games? Just browsing the Shop Channel on the Wii I don't recall seeing anything that looks like it has the scope or value of many XBLA and PSN titles.

I don't know about being "against" - I think it's more the case that the 40MB limit puts a cap on quite how much content and flash developers can put into their WiiWare titles (and DSiWare has a similar limitation, IIRC).

I remember them saying something about how they like the $5-$8 games on WiiWare and $50 boxed releases and they sort of implied that they thought $15 games underminded the $50 retail copies.

I'd be interested to see that quote, because I can't recall anything like that. The only thing that comes close is their position on the "race-to-the-bottom" approach to pricing on the iDevices, with the most recent example being Iwata's GDC keynote on that topic.