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Wii 2 (Project Cafe): Officially Announced, Playable At E3, Launching 2012 [Updated]
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ShockingAlberto
Member
There were a few stand-out moments, but they were surrounded by some really boring game design.NEO0MJ said:
Woffls
Member
Do they even need to? Third parties are doing more than enough, and any attempt by Nintendo would be ignored, even if it was an outstanding game. The FPS crowd just doesn't care about Nintendo franchises, hell, most of the enthusiast press don't care any more.ShockingAlberto said:
AceBandage
Banned
Woffls said:
Nintendo doesn't need to create a Gears of War or Call of Duty, no.
They do, however, need to have a console that can foster a healthy userbase for those games.
And what better way than to publish their own "core" shooter franchise?
Celine said:
Yeah, that's what I figured. So we could, theoretically, just hear about a new Star Tropics out of the blue one day.
Pseudo_Sam
Survives without air, food, or water
NEO0MJ said:
I still really like Geist, if only for the atmosphere and the sheer potential of the "possession" concept. I'd love to see a Geist 2 for Cafe - could be a good opportunity for Nintendo to show the dedicated FPS crowd they mean business.
Woffls
Member
Wouldn't that scare 3rd parties off, if they create their own franchise? They won't be able to make something that's bigger than Call of Duty, Halo or Battlefield in that genre, but 3rd parties still might get the impression that Nintendo would rather support 1st party titles than 3rd party ones.AceBandage said:
If Nintendo kept to to the genres that they've already got a great track record in, then 3rd parties will be more willing to make such titles for the platform. Ideally Nintendo would enter some new genres to see what happens, but it's nice to want things
From The Dust
Banned
dwu8991 said:
I wasn't talking about gameplay. I was talking about hype. if Nintendo can get a game that inspires the same kind of hype (the millions of people at midnight launches, 2 million in 2 days) then they and third parties can easily build off of that
AceBandage
Banned
Woffls said:Wouldn't that scare 3rd parties off, if they create their own franchise? They won't be able to make something that's bigger than Call of Duty, Halo or Battlefield in that genre, but 3rd parties still might get the impression that Nintendo would rather support 1st party titles than 3rd party ones.
If Nintendo kept to to the genres that they've already got a great track record in, then 3rd parties will be more willing to make such titles for the platform. Ideally Nintendo would enter some new genres to see what happens, but it's nice to want things
I dunno... Gears of War and Halo don't scare off CoD or all the other shooters off the XBox.
Seriously, the whole notion that third parties can't compete with Nintendo is pure bullshit.
IMO for that to happen it need:AceBandage said:
1) One of Nintendo key producer/designer that want to do it.
or
2) NoA want to do it targeting western markets ( as the original did ). Giving it to Retro or one of its close developer partners ( think Punchout Wii ).
Star Tropics problem compared to Kid Icarus is that it was an attempt geared toward US market ( it was never released in Japan ) and that its producer is Genyo Takeda ( IRD general manager ).
Nintendo should not change their software developement at all for the benefit of 3rd parties. In fact, they should expand development. Out of all the comoanies, Nintendo is the only one that could actually survive on just it's software (Not happily, but still...).Woffls said:Wouldn't that scare 3rd parties off, if they create their own franchise? They won't be able to make something that's bigger than Call of Duty, Halo or Battlefield in that genre, but 3rd parties still might get the impression that Nintendo would rather support 1st party titles than 3rd party ones.
If Nintendo kept to to the genres that they've already got a great track record in, then 3rd parties will be more willing to make such titles for the platform. Ideally Nintendo would enter some new genres to see what happens, but it's nice to want things
If they find a guy that knows how to design a proper shooter then by all means they should make that shooter and pray it makes billions (WiiShoot?).
It's not fair for 3rd parties to whine about being dumber at game development than Nintendo. That doesn't even make sense. Nintendo is basically throwing them a bone just by the limited amount of games they put out. However, Nintendo will always and should always be their competitor. It's the way things are improved gamewise.
nintendo as a hardware platform needs to entice 3rd parties more- giving them all the tools needed to make the best games, but software should still reign.
If this thing is not as powerful as the PS4/720 then it won't get the next COD, and even it gets COD it won't sell as well as on other platforms.
The next Nintendo console won't attract back the hardcore non Nintendo crowd, just like the N64, GC and Wii didn't. The next Nintendo won't get amazing 3rd party support, just like the previous three Nintendo home consoles didn't.
The next Nintendo console won't attract back the hardcore non Nintendo crowd, just like the N64, GC and Wii didn't. The next Nintendo won't get amazing 3rd party support, just like the previous three Nintendo home consoles didn't.
Woffls
Member
lol yeah, but in the current market, and at a time where it's not sent to diePyrokai said:Ever hear of Geist?
Honestly, I'd rather see a paintball game than a shooter from Nintendo. There's lots of ways that paint could enhance the gameplay and be used in general, and having one resource could be really interesting. It's the sort of thing Nintendo are more likely to do.NEO0MJ said:
Community has made paintball super cool again.
For the people who watch it, at least.
Wolves Evolve
Member
BY2K said:
Goddamnit. I forget how bad each E3 is and then someone mentions a dark moment.
We expect so much. But it will be casual heaven again.
Amir0x said:
Did Kirby's Epic Yarn sell well even WITH Kirby? It would have been sent to die without him. Truly sad
Also, didn't some guy from Retro say that they're next project is "something everyone wants us to do"? Well, I think most people want them to do an original IP, so there's some hope! (if this statement is true, I remember it came out around the time Cafe rumors were pouring out over the Net).
What else do people seemingly want them to do? I know people keep shouting out Zelda, but I would much rather they do something they want to do instead of Zelda. Could it be Star Fox?
Woffls said:lol yeah, but in the current market, and at a time where it's not sent to die
Honestly, I'd rather see a paintball game than a shooter from Nintendo. There's lots of ways that paint could enhance the gameplay and be used in general, and having one resource could be really interesting. It's the sort of thing Nintendo are more likely to do.
Community has made paintball super cool again.
For the people who watch it, at least.
Are you in the US?
They're at it again in the multi-part season ender. Part 1 was pretty epic.
AceBandage
Banned
Kosma said:
Good to see you putting that crystal ball to work...
First off, just because the Cafe won't be as powerful doesn't mean it won't get multiplatform ports. If the userbase is there and it's easy to scale the engines to the Cafe, then it'll get all the same games.
And there's absolutely no way you can say with any certainty that these games won't sell. A new console is a new userbase. If those people are drawn to the system, they'll buy the games.
You also can't say that Nintendo won't get third party support based on the past. Again, a new console is a new userbase.
You say these things like their facts, but it's just more doom and gloom crap that we've heard a billion times before and haven't been true yet.
From The Dust
Banned
Boney said:
as long as Nintendo is directing/producing. it shouldn't be too bad
nincompoop
Banned
It's funny because even being almost a full gen behind technically the Wii still got all of the CoD games besides MW2. And one or two of them even outsold the PS3 version.AceBandage said:
ShockingAlberto
Member
Still don't think we should be counting the "360 successor is a full generational leap over the 360" eggs before they hatch.
AceBandage said:
It's just common sense if you've been around in gaming for a while I think, you'll see
There is nothing indicating the hardcore would choose to buy the next Nintendo, from the first rumours of heavely underpowered hardware to Nintendo proving time and time again they don't want to compete in the online arena.
From The Dust
Banned
Boney said:
Miyamoto will be there to upend their tables if shit goes wrong, so I wouldn't worry
AceBandage
Banned
ShockingAlberto said:
Really depends on how you define a generational leap, honestly.
By all the rumors we've seen, you could easily call the Cafe with a 4770 a generational leap.
Kosma said:It's just common sense if you've been around in gaming for a while I think, you'll see
There is nothing indicating the hardcore would choose to buy the next Nintendo, from the first rumours of heavely underpowered hardware to Nintendo proving time and time again they don't want to compete in the online arena.
I'm sorry, but what's this?
What rumors have stated that it'll be heavily underpowered and that Nintendo doesn't want to compete in online?
If anything, rumors (and Iwata himself) have stated the exact opposite.
Also, I've been around in gaming since the Atari, so I think I can make a pretty good judgement myself.
From The Dust
Banned
ShockingAlberto said:
considering how third parties have been bitching about dev costs, I don't expect it to be a full leap
Boney said:
YOU GOTTA BELIEVE!
outunderthestars
Banned
I've been asking for a mario paintball game for years. I think the art style would make for a really enjoyable game. There are alot of households where shooters are not allowed, but a cartoonish paintball game would be welcome.
Nintendo needs another mario kart styled crossover hit, and this could be it.
Nintendo needs another mario kart styled crossover hit, and this could be it.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
nincompoop said:
And if the rumour mongering is to be believed, the only reason nobody tried porting MW2 to the Wii was because Infinity Ward had a stick up their arse about Activision giving Treyarch the go-ahead on porting Modern Warfare.
People dont need to worry about third parties shafting the Wii 2 with ports or whatever as long as the system meets the hardware is relatively easy to work with (especially for middleware), and the rest of the package (controller, online, etc) can easily adopt a modern standard.
As long as it runs UE3 you'll get a slew of ports.
AceBandage
Banned
outunderthestars said:
Ugh no.
Paintball games are already not fun. Shoehorning in Mario would just make it intolerable.
Pyrokai said:
The Gamecube was my console of choice last gen and I couldn't have been more excited for Geist. In the end the 'dream' was more exciting and enjoyable than the reality.
What little I played really turned me off. I'm told it was an alright shooter but I had such high hopes for that project.
Still, TimeSplitters 3 on the Gamecube was still THE FPS of the last gen IMHO. I must have sank well over 150+ hours into game's multiplayer. All night gaming sessions with three friends and all 'five star' bots are still a fond memory.
Father_Brain
Banned
ShockingAlberto said:
I think I asked this earlier, but isn't there some consensus among the tech experts here that the hardware required to run something like the Samaritan demo would have too large a power draw for even a 2013 or 2014 console?
From The Dust
Banned
Father_Brain said:
yep. three 580s (to one in the future) its absurd for a console. even one is by 13/14
AceBandage
Banned
Father_Brain said:
Even if they got the engine to run on a single 580 (currently running on THREE), that would still be to much power draw for a console.
They'll have to neuter the engine for consoles either way.
outunderthestars
Banned
AceBandage said:
The problem with paintball games is that they try to emulate the incredibly lame sport of actual paintball.
using paintball guns would allow Nintendo to make a cartoonish shooter not bound in reality.
Realistic go karting games suck donkey balls, but mario kart is fun as hell. They could do the same to paintball.
AceBandage said:
At this point, I don't even have to say anything, do I?
The thing about ST that's really interesting versus "random scrambling through Nintendo's backlog for something to make new again" is that it has so many different pieces unto itself that when refocused could lead to any number of interesting different directions, as opposed to just a straight "do it like it used to be" revival. For example:
- Should it be more like a Saturday morning cartoon version of Uncharted with liberal Nintendo-isms? The original games already set a good framework for this with the "chapter" set up and progression, and the separation between action -- dealing with deep cave trekking, mysterious area investigations or treasure hunting -- and interactions with the cast and personalities present on the island "overworlds". There's also the extraneous things like the characters, Mike being described just as a regular high school kid, his Uncle a pretty famous archaeologist, and the alien kids & princess that could pretty much act as his ambassadors on different worlds (should there be an increased emphasis on venturing through more alien worlds on top of the earthly ones). Surprisingly enough, even though this is the one I support most (mainly because it fills a gap that other Nintendo franchises don't in making a "Indiana Jones"-like title), it's just as open to different interpretations as anything else. Look at how many people say it could be a more modern Zelda for example.
Personally, I don't agree with this one because I feel as though it'd only help to make this series lose any shot it once had at a distinct personality or gameplay identity because of the inevitable comparisons to the mainline Zeldas. Let Zelda be Zelda in gameplay and design and let StarTropics have a chance to become something different, something that it can only be when it's unhindered by expectations or designs prominent in another series.
- As mentioned before, the series already possessed a strong western audience slant and even though the elements were crude, there was enough there to make a basis for a future entry with a more serious (re: the universe could be built up and taken more seriously, not a cry for "herp derp moar matoor") effort towards creating a universal but western influenced series. While I certainly would love it if the series would retain certain humors and charms that 1990 Nintendo toyed with (dressing in drag to infiltrate an island full of warrior women, blocking psychic suggestions... with bananas lodged in his ears) you can see that a lot of elements that were put into the series (especially the second game) were there just because they seemed funny/were forced gags as opposed to something thought out and used with the hopes of making something that was just genuinely funny (the entire time travel shtick in the second game, Cleopatra wanting a pizza, Merlin being your psychic advisor through time, etc.) Imagine what kind of potential it would have if it was given a new life and people who understood both game design and western culture could have a go with the franchise?
- Adding on to the previous, Nintendo has goddamed Retro, a studio praised highly for superb world design, art direction talents, and a really positive attitude towards working on Nintendo IPs and making them into something new entirely. Couple that with the idea that they are entirely American, and you have the potential to give them a series that could seem almost natural coming from them depending on how wild you allow them to get in the design of things. It'd be a great way to show off Retro's ability to make different varied franchises viable, a good way to show that Nintendo's library isn't limited to just Marios, Zelda, Metroids and the like, and a good way to start up an audience for adventure games without taxing EAD3 for "moar Zelda plz" given how long it has taken them to get their direction and show something for Skyward Sword throughout this generation.
...
Fuck, I went too far off topic with this. :lol
ShockingAlberto
Member
Yeah. One of the major problems with Wii/PS360PC development is that there is no easy way to make those assets cross-compatible. You have to make different sets.EatChildren said:
A system that can run UE3 and has HD graphics is infinitely more capable of receiving pared down ports from even the modernest of modern GPUs, which no one can guarantee the PS4 or 720 will be using. It would not require a different team.
To put it this way, a 2005 PC can still play the Witcher 2. It will not look as great as Witcher 2 on a modern PC would, in fact it would probably look significantly worse, but CD Projekt would not have to make two different versions of the game to get it to play on a six year old PC.
People say that a Wii 2 would be fucked on third party games because Wii 1 was in a similar situation, but the difference between the Wii and a 360 was a 12 foot HD wall. The difference between a Wii 2 and even a fantasy-powered 720 is maybe a country mile, but it doesn't have to be separated like it was this generation.
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