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[Glass Joe]

The issue would be, how would you navigate the console's menu to select/load your game and stream it to the handhelds without a TV attached?... UNLESS, there is a small display on the console itself, just for this purpose. Or, an "auto-boot" feature that loads whatever game you have inserted directly to the TV, and if no TV is detected, directly to the handhelds.

The controller has a power button. The controller screen displays the same opening menu the TV does.

 

[StevePharma]

The issue would be, how would you navigate the console's menu to select/load your game and stream it to the handhelds without a TV attached?... UNLESS, there is a small display on the console itself, just for this purpose. Or, an "auto-boot" feature that loads whatever game you have inserted directly to the TV, and if no TV is detected, directly to the handhelds.

What if you could boot with with your controller and a menu appeared on the touch screen? Kinda like PSP remote play has now.

Edit: explained exactly one post above me

 

[Graphics Horse]

What if you could boot with with your controller and a menu appeared on the touch screen? Kinda like PSP remote play has now.

Edit: explained exaclty one post above me

I think it's very likely, but still, don't expect all games to work that way, as it severely limits the amount of ways you can use the touch screen.

 

[Mael]

Basically it would be the perfect system for FFCC!

 

[StevePharma]

I think it's very likely, but still, don't expect all games to work that way, as it severely limits the amount of ways you can use the touch screen.

Yeah, I'm expecting things equivalent to PSP-minis and some console games depending on technical strain on the system. For what we know the controller could have some Flash memory to store small apps/games

 

[Glass Joe]

I think it's very likely, but still, don't expect all games to work that way, as it severely limits the amount of ways you can use the touch screen.

Streaming to the controllers seems to be the hook of the system though. In which case you're right, don't expect the touch screen to do much (other than optional menu navigation and occasional gimmicks). It'd suck if you had to look down at the controller all the time when playing a game on the TV anyway.

 

[M74]

I went to bed. Seeing as how this thread isn't flying off its hinges, I assume the boring list of information in the updated OP is all we got?

 

[heringer]

Wouldn't stream games to make a "portable at home" experience make it impossible to use the controller screen for gameplay purposes?

 

[jax (old)]

people saying STEAM should come to CAFE kind of are ignoring the fact that STEAM is awesome mostly for the fact that it presents/provides really awesome sales to games on it - beyond just a delivery platform. And of course, the fact that its a PC platform with a really diverse backlog of titles. Going on Cafe, it really won't have much.

And NIntnedo has already been fairly notorious about what they believe price points on games should be. As is, 1st party titles that they sell, that sell well, don't price drop. I really don't see them introducing something to the Nintendo ecosystem which will make consumers go "hmm, Nintendo games aren't value". Anything that eats into their profitability will be a huge no no. For the price of say 2 1st party titles, round xmas or whenever STEAM sales are on, you can easily pick up 10++ top tier pc titles.


I'd like to know what you guys think STEAM will bring to CAFE.

 

[From The Dust]

Basically it would be the perfect system for FFCC!

This can't be said enough

 

[Eteric Rice]

What I meant was that the streaming of supposedly disc based games to a controller is new for a home based console. It seems to become some sort of hybrid machine in my mind, blurring the line between portable/console (like a VMU+) excluding external TV output. Sony could go this way with the NGP too I guess.

That seems like where they're going.

If they're smart, they'll make it into a media center. Imagine being able to buy games, movies on netflix, books, music, and being able to stream them to different controllers. So dad can watch a movie, son can play a game, mom can read a book, daughter can listen to music, etc, all at the same time.

 

[RPGCrazied]

So basically the conference about the new console was like, "sorry, nothing more until E3." Expected I guess.

 

[gofreak]

Wouldn't stream games to make a "portable at home" experience make it impossible to use the controller screen for gameplay purposes?

Depends on whether the use of the controller screen is asynchronous or not. If that makes sense.

I've a feeling there won't be a standard setup. I think whether games are fully streamable or not will be up to the game - or, at least, how many displays it needs to stream to simultaneously will be up to the application.

 

[Joey Fox]

This can't be said enough

Hopefully it's not at the expense of getting the next mainline FF.

But I think we all know it will be.

 

[Mael]

Hopefully it's not at the expense of getting the next mainline FF.

But I think we all know it will be.

Shouldn't be though, we've always got it at the expense of a new Saga game.....which is actually worse.

 

[Chet Rippo]

Hopefully it's not at the expense of getting the next mainline FF.

But I think we all know it will be.

If the next mainline FF is anything like XIII, I would not mind that at all.

 

[KAL2006]

I am still confused how they will eliminate lag. I have tried PSP-PS3 remote play and the lag is terrible for games, remote play just about works in the same room as the PS3, but once I go into the next room I notice lag.

 

[Fernando Rocker]

Today is my birthday!

As a gift, I want an insider to share some secret details about the console. Please send me a PM with the info!

I promise I won't share anything. Thanks in advance!

 

[Fernando Rocker]

I am still confused how they will eliminate lag. I have tried PSP-PS3 remote play and the lag is terrible for games, remote play just about works in the same room as the PS3, but once I go into the next room I notice lag.

Well... the console is being built from the ground around the concept.

 

[Glass Joe]

That seems like where they're going.

If they're smart, they'll make it into a media center. Imagine being able to buy games, movies on netflix, books, music, and being able to stream them to different controllers. So dad can watch a movie, son can play a game, mom can read a book, daughter can listen to music, etc, all at the same time.

That's an interesting point and I wonder how that will play out. Looking at this scenario, say that there's 4 people using Cafe at once:

USER 1 - Playing a game on the TV
USER 2 - Streaming Netflix on a controller
USER 3 - Listening to music from the controller
USER 4 - Browsing the 'net on the controller

Assigning completely arbitrary demands on the console, let's say Netflix eats 15% of available resources, while the mp3 player and internet browser each eat up 5% for a total of 25%. That would imply that each game designed could be made to only utilize 75% of the system's power, otherwise it wouldn't run properly or at all in certain circumstances. That could be a bad thing.

 

[KAL2006]

Well... the console is being built from the ground around the concept.

but are there even any technology known at this time that gives lagless streaming, I haven't heard or seen anything myself that does this

 

[Refreshment.01]

Streaming to the controllers seems to be the hook of the system though. In which case you're right, don't expect the touch screen to do much (other than optional menu navigation and occasional gimmicks). It'd suck if you had to look down at the controller all the time when playing a game on the TV anyway.

Be careful with such statements. That´s a conclusion you can reach after extensive playthroughs and experimentation. That's like me saying ATI (now AMD) and even Nvidia, don't have a clue about anything because they support multi display option. Even with one really big screen you have somewhat to refocus to read some HUD displays.

That's an interesting point and I wonder how that will play out. Looking at this scenario, say that there's 4 people using Cafe at once:

USER 1 - Playing a game on the TV
USER 2 - Streaming Netflix on a controller
USER 3 - Listening to music from the controller
USER 4 - Browsing the 'net on the controller

Assigning completely arbitrary demands on the console, let's say Netflix eats 15% of available resources, while the mp3 player and internet browser each eat up 5% for a total of 25%. That would imply that each game designed could be made to only utilize 75% of the system's power, otherwise it wouldn't run properly or at all in certain circumstances. That could be a bad thing.

Don´t see that happening, why limit the developers for such a superficial use. That's the type of stuff that sound interesting on paper but dont seem that practical. Hearing MP3s? With people having a million devices alreaady to do so.

 

[Glass Joe]

but are there even any technology known at this time that gives lagless streaming, I haven't heard or seen anything myself that does this

Had you even heard of a screen that displays 3D images without glasses before the 3DS, or a motion sensing controller before Wii? Nintendo are pioneers. If this is their plan, chances are they've got this shit figured out, yo.

Be careful with such statements. That´s a conclusion you can reach after extensive playthroughs and experimentation. That's like me saying ATI (now AMD) and even Nvidia, don't have a clue about anything because they support multi display option. Even with one really big screen you have somewhat to refocus to read some HUD displays.

As an assumption, I think it's logical though. A game with touch screen functionality running on the TV is one thing. And IMO looking down at the controller would inevitably happen and not be very convenient. But if the system is designed with streaming in mind, then all the sudden touching the screen also means that often your fingers will get in the way of the action. I could be wrong, I'm just tossing out ideas and first impression style opinions of what makes sense to me.

 

[Ickman3400]

So I decided to go to bed instead of staying up til 3 for this and I'm guessing that was a good move seeing as I can't seem to find anything on this. Did they basically just confirm its existence?

 

[Graphics Horse]

but are there even any technology known at this time that gives lagless streaming, I haven't heard or seen anything myself that does this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WirelessHD and others.

Had you even heard of a screen that displays 3D images without glasses before the 3DS, or a motion sensing controller before Wii?

Yes and yes. I owned a motion controller. The pointer idea was pretty novel though.

 

[KAL2006]

Had you even heard of a screen that displays 3D images without glasses before the 3DS, or a motion sensing controller before Wii? Nintendo are pioneers. If this is their plan, chances are they've got this shit figured out, yo.

Yes to both of those, the technology was there, and I heard of both, Nintendo do not invent these technologies but they usually are one of the first to implement the technologies. I have actually seen autosctereosopic screen in the university I went to and this was a god 2 years before 3DS.

 

[RPGCrazied]

So I decided to go to bed instead of staying up til 3 for this and I'm guessing that was a good move seeing as I can't seem to find anything on this. Did they basically just confirm its existence?

Pretty much, its in the OP, but its not much. Looks like we won't get anything more until E3.

 

[KAL2006]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WirelessHD and others.

I thought WirelessHD only works when in the same room, even that wiki link says "point to point", "line of sight", "up to 10 meters".

 

[Neo Child]

Yes to both of those, the technology was there, and I heard of both, Nintendo do not invent these technologies but they usually are one of the first to implement the technologies. I have actually seen autosctereosopic screen in the university I went to and this was a god 2 years before 3DS.

The average gamer hasn't though, it's about bringing these technologies to the masses. Problem is, since Nintendo are first out of the gate with this tech (on consumer goods) it leaves other dev's (Sony, Microsoft) the chance to improve and perfect them (Move & Kinect).

 

[PuppetSlave]

That seems like where they're going.

If they're smart, they'll make it into a media center. Imagine being able to buy games, movies on netflix, books, music, and being able to stream them to different controllers. So dad can watch a movie, son can play a game, mom can read a book, daughter can listen to music, etc, all at the same time.

Oh wow, now I finally get it. Mind actually blown, don't know why I did not get it before. Maybe Nintendo do know what they are doing with the Cafe thing. Assuming what you are saying(or similar enough) will actually happen.

 

[Graphics Horse]

I thought WirelessHD only works when in the same room, even that wiki link says "point to point", "line of sight", "up to 10 meters".

I think it's more like 30 meters now, but I wasn't aware they're promising anything that works in different rooms yet. I think 10 meters is without line of sight.

 

[Refreshment.01]

I thought WirelessHD only works when in the same room, even that wiki link says "point to point", "line of sight", "up to 10 meters".

Wireless Home Digital Interface doesnt depend of line of sight.

Look at this:

http://promos.asus.com/US/Newsletter2010/System_Aug10/Stories/Lead_Story.html

Have been showing this sinc the first Project cafe thread

That seems like where they're going.

If they're smart, they'll make it into a media center. Imagine being able to buy games, movies on netflix, books, music, and being able to stream them to different controllers. So dad can watch a movie, son can play a game, mom can read a book, daughter can listen to music, etc, all at the same time.

Netfilx, ok. But books and music? That´s something you would want the option to take anywhere with you, so chances are a person would already have a device that those so, like a kindle or portable mp3 player (which almost any phone already does at this stage in time)

Hmmm......

Looking like a longggg wait until E3 now.

Some times i wonder, what a type of post like this one acomplishes. Got a f*cking crowded thread with lots of derailing already. If you want to express that put it along with a post of a little more value. Friendly recomendation of course

 

[Fernando Rocker]

but are there even any technology known at this time that gives lagless streaming, I haven't heard or seen anything myself that does this

Yes... it's called Nintendo magic.

 

[Glass Joe]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WirelessHD and others.




Yes and yes. I owned a motion controller. The pointer idea was pretty novel though.

Sounds like you're up on your tech then, including WirelessHD? The point I was making is the average consumer hadn't, so just because it's not widely known doesn't mean they're not figuring it out.

 

[Somnid]

If OnLive can provide HD gaming using offline rendering over standard internet then clearly Cafe could deliver a few 500x800 streams over a home network.

 

[KAL2006]

The average gamer hasn't though, it's about bringing these technologies to the masses. Problem is, since Nintendo are first out of the gate with this tech (on consumer goods) it leaves other dev's (Sony, Microsoft) the chance to improve and perfect them (Move & Kinect).

I think you are getting confused, I am strictly speaking of tech that are available even if it is not popular or commercially available. Autostereoscopic screens were available so I knew it was possible to have a handheld like that even before 3DS. There were companies developing full body tracking cameras so I knew that was possible before Kinect. However what I am confused about now is streaming games without serious lag in a different room from the console. I don't know any tech that exist that can do this, so I am wondering how Nintendo will pull this off.

 

[Skiesofwonder]

Hmmm......

Looking like a longggg wait until E3 now.

 

[Graphics Horse]

The point I was making is the average consumer hadn't, so just because it's not widely known doesn't mean they're not figuring it out.

Oh I know, but they're quite happy to admit they don't invent the tech, merely use it in ways it hasn't been used before. That's pretty much how they described the Wii remote.

 

[KAL2006]

Wireless Home Digital Interface doesnt depend of line of sight.

Look at this:

http://promos.asus.com/US/Newsletter2010/System_Aug10/Stories/Lead_Story.html

Have been showing this sinc the first Project cafe thread

interesting, but isn't that line of sight (no walls), also isn't that just streaming video content where lag does not matter at all, but with games it does.

If OnLive can provide HD gaming using offline rendering over standard internet then clearly Cafe could deliver a few 500x800 streams over a home network.

Completely forgot about this, how does On Live work exactly and don't you need super fast internet for that

 

[maxmars]

Oh wow, now I finally get it. Mind actually blown, don't know why I did not get it before. Maybe Nintendo do know what they are doing with the Cafe thing. Assuming what you are saying(or similar enough) will actually happen.

They need to become really good at publishing content, though -- they can't afford droughts in any of the media they choose to publish, or the system will sink.

Basically they need to one up Apple with their iTunes strategy, and I somehow doubt they can pull it off, but I'd sure love them to prove me wrong. They will probably need to be much more open with regards to indie developers / artists so that they can have a stream of content, and that alone would be a first for Nintendo.

 

[Vinci]

Depends on whether the use of the controller screen is asynchronous or not. If that makes sense.

I've a feeling there won't be a standard setup. I think whether games are fully streamable or not will be up to the game - or, at least, how many displays it needs to stream to simultaneously will be up to the application.

Yeah, I think Nintendo would be wise to allow developers to use the screen in the controller however the hell they want. Would definitely lead to more innovative applications than if Nintendo standardized it as 'the menu screen' or something else.

 

[Somnid]

Completely forgot about this, how does On Live work exactly and don't you need super fast internet for that

You need fast internet but it's nothing crazy. They have a proprietary algorithm that compresses the frames that is both very fast and resistant to errors. They also do a lot of packet modification to make sure it doesn't get hung up and will not re-request data, instead opting to let it error out and the decompression algorithm to handle those situations. I think they also have special hardware at their data centers that does all this compression. People still complain about input lag and it does depend a little bit on how close you are to a datacenter but it's definitely playable.

 

[Graphics Horse]

interesting, but isn't that line of sight (no walls), also isn't that just streaming video content where lag does not matter at all, but with games it does.

It says under 1 millisecond lag on that page, but you probably need to add the time it takes to send the entire image. Even so, it may appear on your tablet display before it's output on your LCD TV. The idea is there's so much bandwidth that the signal doesn't need to be compressed at all, so it can be sent out instantly.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

You need fast internet but it's nothing crazy. They have a proprietary algorithm that compresses the frames that is both very fast and resistant to errors. They also do a lot of packet modification to make sure it doesn't get hung up and will not re-request data, instead opting to let it error out and the decompression algorithm to handle those situations. I think they also have special hardware at their data centers that does all this compression. People still complain about input lag and it does depend a little bit on how close you are to a datacenter but it's definitely playable.

They probably just use UDP for the connection since it doesn't re-request dropped packets without custom upper-layer stuff and has very low network overhead.

 

[MYE]

I know we are way past this shit but moving from the GC pad mockups and taking into consideration the "closest mockup to the real thing" rumor, I'm imagening a final product that looks something like this:

Big as shit but why not? As long as its not too heavy and thick.
The back of the tablet/controller would have "bumpy" grips to prevent this thing from sliding off your hands and the triggers/shoulder buttons would still respect the height of the left slider and 4 face buttons in the front.

It would be something diferent alright

edit: Removed the stupid blur effect

 

[Jintor]

Hey, if I remember Game Over correctly, haven't Nintendo been aiming for a media-box style platform since the 80s/90s?

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

I know we are way past this shit but moving from the GC pad mockups and taking into consideration the "closest mockup to the real thing" rumor, I'm imagening a final product that looks something like this:

http://i.imgur.com/LVP3G.jpg[IMG]

Big as shit but why not? As long as its not too heavy and thick.
The back of the tablet/controller would have "bumpy" grips to prevent this thing from sliding off your hands and the triggers/shoulder buttons would still respect the height of the left slider and 4 face buttons in the front.

It would be something diferent alright :P[/QUOTE]

REAL STICKS OR BUST.

 

[RyuKanSan]

I know we are way past this shit but moving from the GC pad mockups and taking into consideration the "closest mockup to the real thing" rumor, I'm imagening a final product that looks something like this:

Big as shit but why not? As long as its not too heavy and thick.
The back of the tablet/controller would have "bumpy" grips to prevent this thing from sliding off your hands and the triggers/shoulder buttons would still respect the height of the left slider and 4 face buttons in the front.

It would be something diferent alright

this would be so awesome. best mock-up yet

 

[jax (old)]

I SNIP. pic removed

It would be something diferent alright

that thing looks like it should cost $200++

 

[1-D_FTW]

I know we are way past this shit but moving from the GC pad mockups and taking into consideration the "closest mockup to the real thing" rumor, I'm imagening a final product that looks something like this:

http://i.imgur.com/LVP3G.jpg[IMG]

Big as shit but why not? As long as its not too heavy and thick.
The back of the tablet/controller would have "bumpy" grips to prevent this thing from sliding off your hands and the triggers/shoulder buttons would still respect the height of the left slider and 4 face buttons in the front.

It would be something diferent alright :P[/QUOTE]

It's a whole lot more comfortable and ergonomic if the controls are on the top. Otherwise it's just like DS and it's a hand cramp if you have decent sized hands.