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[DECK'ARD]

3rd party exclusives on the way...?

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/...eedName=mnaNewsConsumerGoodsAndRetail&rpc=401

He's just talking in marketing terms and how too much focus on their own titles coloured perceptions of the platform.

 

[Sadist]

Either that or they're going to offer co-marketing to third parties to try and keep multiplatform titles showing up on the platform.

Most likely option imo.

Curious about how they will approach the western devs.

 

[Nirolak]

Most likely option imo.

Curious about how they will approach the western devs.

The most effective method with the West seems to be bags of cash combined with a robust online system that they can use to generate strong word of mouth sales and sell lots of DLC through.

 

[Mr_Brit]

The most effective method with the West seems to be bags of cash combined with a robust online system that they can use to generate strong word of mouth sales and sell lots of DLC through.

Which based on the 3DS will never happen.

 

[Mael]

The most effective method with the West seems to be bags of cash combined with a robust online system that they can use to generate strong word of mouth sales and sell lots of DLC through.

I was going to point toward the latest CoD but....the last one got a not so bad online and I think they enaled DLC on it...so yeah.

 

[JaseC]

Digital Foundry's article says the 3DS has 512MB RAM lol

It's obvious he meant 360.

 

[Jay Sosa]

The thing is that Big N has pretty awful 3 party support ever since the PS 1 days and even when someone releases some interesting stuff like Xenoblade or all these Capcom games on the GC it more often than not sells like crap.

 

[Mael]

The thing is that Big N has pretty awful 3 party support ever since the PS 1 days and even when someone releases some interesting stuff like Xenoblade or all these Capcom games on the GC it more often than not sells like crap.

You mean like Resident Evil 4:Wii Edition?

 

[Nirolak]

I was going to point toward the latest CoD but....the last one got a not so bad online and I think they enaled DLC on it...so yeah.

Well, I don't mean the existence of online so much as an online system as robust as Xbox Live or PSN.

The trick is not just getting online, but building communities of friends that are likely to buy the same games together and then buy DLC map packs together to play more.

 

[jax (old)]

Either that or they're going to offer co-marketing to third parties to try and keep multiplatform titles showing up on the system.

My guess would actually be the latter since they had a fair amount of third party exclusives with the Wii, but got killed on not being included in the multiplatform party.

The problem I see for Nintendo going forward with multiplatforms is - both the ps3/x360 are well established; the only thing here is that CAFE will get an added port because now it can handle the engine (Say UE3/polycount/textures..etc)

But there's nothing here to incentivise gamers on both platforms to pick up the CAFE version which I expect to be about the same- port wise. Especially when the HD install base for ps3/x360 is millions vs the fledgling CAFE installbase - it essentially starts at 0.

 

[Metallix]

The thing is that Big N has pretty awful 3 party support ever since the PS 1 days and even when someone releases some interesting stuff like Xenoblade or all these Capcom games on the GC it more often than not sells like crap.

What are you talking about, exactly?

Capcom's efforts on Gamecube, save for P.N.03, did NOT "sell like crap".

I'll give you Xenoblade, though I'm curious to see how it does in Europe, Australia, and North America.

 

[JaseC]

You mean like Resident Evil 4:Wii Edition?

Is that supposed to counter something he said in his post? I'm fairly certain The Wii Edition of RE4 isn't on the GC.

 

[brain_stew]

Either that or they're going to offer co-marketing to third parties to try and keep multiplatform titles showing up on the system.

My guess would actually be the latter since they had a fair amount of third party exclusives with the Wii, but got killed on not being included in the multiplatform party.

Steam? A man can dream.

 

[Nirolak]

The problem I see for Nintendo going forward with multiplatforms is - both the ps3/x360 are well established; the only thing here is that CAFE will get an added port because now it can handle the engine (Say UE3/polycount/textures..etc)

But there's nothing here to incentivise gamers on both platforms to pick up the CAFE version which I expect to be about the same- port wise. Especially when the HD install base for ps3/x360 is millions vs the fledgling CAFE installbase - it essentially starts at 0.

Right, it's a steep hill to climb.

Their bigger issue is also keeping multiplatform titles once the PS4 and Xbox 720 come out, which means they need to build really strong third party relations to get people to still make ports at that point.

Steam? A man can dream.

This would be a fascinating move that I would not expect.

 

[jax (old)]

The thing is that Big N has pretty awful 3 party support ever since the PS 1 days and even when someone releases some interesting stuff like Xenoblade or all these Capcom games on the GC it more often than not sells like crap.

see also zack/wiki + red steel 2 + more.

THe 3rd party hits have been just dance 2 / fitness things + carnivale games - not sure about the full list. I wonder what the full list of 3rd party success on wii is.

 

[Antagon]

What are you talking about, exactly?

Capcom's efforts on Gamecube, save for P.N.03, did NOT "sell like crap".

I'll give you Xenoblade, though I'm curious to see how it does in Europe, Australia, and North America.

Xenoblade is first party.

 

[Mael]

Well, I don't mean the existence of online so much as an online system as robust as Xbox Live or PSN.

The trick is not just getting online, but building communities of friends that are likely to buy the same games together and then buy DLC map packs together to play more.

Well yeah pretty much that still didn't prevent ATVI from releasing their CoD games, but still apart from seeing what other people are playing and the whole invite friends it's pretty much on par now.
I'm not sure DLC is not on CodBlops Wii either.

But they indeed have a big image problem in this regards.

 

[Nirolak]

see also zack/wiki + red steel 2 + more.

THe 3rd party hits have been just dance 2 / fitness things + carnivale games - not sure about the full list. I wonder what the full list of 3rd party success on wii is.

Well, the biggest ones are basically:

-Guitar Hero 3
-Just Dance
-Just Dance 2
-Monster Hunter Tri
-Dragon Quest Swords
-Michael Jackson: The Experience
-Red Steel 1
-Resident Evil 4: Wii Edition
-Resident Evil: The Umbrella Chronicles
-Taiko No Tatsujin
-Taiko No Tatsujin 2
-Karaoke Joysound
-EA Sports Active
-Your Shape
-Rayman's Raving Rabbids
-Carnival Games
-Mario & Sonic At The Olympics
-Mario & Sonic At The Winter Olympics
-Sonic Unleashed
-Rampage (Launch Title)
-Epic Mickey

I'm sure I'm forgetting a few though.

 

[Mael]

Is that supposed to counter something he said in his post? I'm fairly certain The Wii Edition of RE4 isn't on the GC.

What are you talking about, exactly?

Capcom's efforts on Gamecube, save for P.N.03, did NOT "sell like crap".

I'll give you Xenoblade, though I'm curious to see how it does in Europe, Australia, and North America.

Since it seemed obvious he wasn't talking about the GC, he must have been talking about Wii.
I mean it's not like RE4 GC bombed either.

 

[Taker666]

I wonder if we will actually see the release of a VR headset for cafe at some point?

If the console can stream to four 800x 500 screens at one time with no lag...it would seem an ideal candidate for a wireless VR headset that uses two screens.

 

[JaseC]

Since it seemed obvious he wasn't talking about the GC, he must have been talking about Wii.
I mean it's not like RE4 GC bombed either.

Sorry, I must've imagined the part where he mentioned the GC.

Spoiler

I'm just messing with you, FYI.

Seriously though, he said "more often than not". While he may be wrong on that and perhaps should've used a phrase slightly less definitive, the point is he didn't say "Every game ever made. Ever", so pointing out examples to the contrary is pointless.

Edit: Made this post less serious.

 

[DECK'ARD]

All this talk of the appeal of Wii 2 versus current and future consoles is a bit premature until we know what the Hell they are up to with it anyway.

They obviously think the idea is strong enough to not reveal anything about it in a press-release, and unveil it Wii Sports style at E3 instead.

The fact they want people to play it before anything else, rather than just unveil the concept like they did with the Wii and its remote, says this idea is either going to be very odd indeed or more potent in action than it would seem on paper.

 

[Jay Sosa]

What are you talking about, exactly?

Capcom's efforts on Gamecube, save for P.N.03, did NOT "sell like crap".

I'll give you Xenoblade, though I'm curious to see how it does in Europe, Australia, and North America.

Maybe not like crap but what 3 party game besides RE 4 was really sucessful? I don't know if the wiki list is exact but about 90% of the games in the Top 26 are first party.

And it's not like they haven't tried..

EDIT: I was mainly talking about the GC.

 

[Glass Joe]

You think Nintendo is happy having the console with the greatest fall in history? Systems have only ever went onto a position of dominance from where the Wii was 3-4 years ago, for all they did fantastic to build that momentum, they were utterly hopeless as maintaining it.

Their hardware choice traded third party support for GCN BC, a similar machine would have had all the same positives but lack that major weakness that led to the sysyem's premature downfall.

I'm sure they're thrilled that Wii is their most successful console ever. There's more Wii systems in the world than the NES, and they went from 20 million units (GC) to 80 million (Wii) in homes. But I'm sure they're not happy at its fast decline, true. That wasn't part of my argument though.

I'm not a tech guy, so I don't know why losing GCN BC would necessarily guarantee 3rd party support. Sounds like you're jumping to a conclusion. Slightly more powerful hardware may have still been equally frowned upon, wouldn't it? There'd still be that effort to convert 360/PS3 games to Wii's power.

 

[Metallix]

Since it seemed obvious he wasn't talking about the GC, he must have been talking about Wii.
I mean it's not like RE4 GC bombed either.

Well, he mentioned interesting stuff, referenced Capcom's Gamecube offerings, and then said they bomb more often than not. Just an odd thing to say, all things considered.

 

[radioheadrule83]

The thing is that Big N has pretty awful 3 party support ever since the PS 1 days and even when someone releases some interesting stuff like Xenoblade or all these Capcom games on the GC it more often than not sells like crap.

I'm not saying they sell brilliantly, or trying to paint a picture that third parties do well on Nintendo platforms - more often than not they fluff their lines, but that's not necessarily true all of the time, and third party sales are not always bad... case in point:

Resident Evil 4 has sold 1.8m on Wii, shy of what it sold on PS2 but still impressive for a port of a game from a prior generation. Add that to the 2.2m it sold on PS2, and the 1.6m it sold on GC and RE4 reaches 5.6m+ -- surely worth their efforts. Each of the other new games and ports went platinum on Nintendo platforms as well - REmake, RE0, Umbrella Chronicles etc.

18 of Capcom's Top 50 Platinum titles are on Nintendo platforms btw. Over a third.

Burnout 2, Timesplitters 2, Beyond Good & Evil and Soul Calibur II are examples of titles that all did relatively well compared to versions on other platforms during the Gamecube era.

 

[mattx5]

While "relying more on others" probably has something to do with third-party support, I wonder if they're referring more to parts of their infrastructure being licensed from or integrated with other platforms, i.e. Steam distribution, integration of established social networking tools, etc.?

 

[Mael]

Sorry, I must've imagined the part where he mentioned the GC.

Not to mention, he said "more often than not". While he may be wrong on that, the point is he didn't say "Every game ever made. Ever", so pointing out examples to the contrary is pointless.

Well when more often than not 3rd party support is absolutely awful it's not surprising that they would fail.
And it's not limited to Nintendo platform either, most games released are actually not that good (and the market generally agree hence the price fall most games have)

 

[Metallix]

And it's not like they haven't tried..

On Wii? For the most part, they really haven't.

 

[Jay Sosa]

On Wii? For the most part, they really haven't.

Sorry, thread moves too fast..like I said I was mainly talking about the GC.

 

[JaseC]

Well when more often than not 3rd party support is absolutely awful it's not surprising that they would fail.
And it's not limited to Nintendo platform either, most games released are actually not that good (and the market generally agree hence the price fall most games have)

So we're agreed, then. That's always nice. I'm not sure I agree with your second paragraph, though. For example, the recent Tony Hawk offerings are like the pinnacle of brilliant game design.

 

[Metallix]

Sorry, thread moves too fast..like I said I was mainly talking about the GC.

Okay. There seemed to be a lot of confusion going on about that.

 

[Mael]

So we're agreed, then. That's always nice. I'm not sure I agree with your second paragraph, though. For example, the recent Tony Hawk offerings are like the pinnacle of brilliant game design.

well considering that the market is the only metric we can use for quality, it's safe to say that the market didn't like it.
Let's not forget for a second that every game but the indies are made with 1 thing in mind : pleasing the absolute biggest amount of people possible.
On that metric we can evaluate whether or not they succeed or fail.

 

[Amir0x]

- Nintendo feels that gaming is better with buttons, so you won’t see a machine without them

At least Nintendo gets it, Microsoft.

 

[JaseC]

well considering that the market is the only metric we can use for quality, it's safe to say that the market didn't like it.
Let's not forget for a second that every game but the indies are made with 1 thing in mind : pleasing the absolute biggest amount of people possible.
On that metric we can evaluate whether or not they succeed or fail.

I was being facetious with the latter half of my post.

At least Nintendo gets it, Microsoft.

So that's where Microsoft's understanding of the importance of buttons went.

 

[EricDiesel]

At least Nintendo gets it, Microsoft.

But buttons are a LIMITATION, bro. That's why we've seen so many FPSes and Action games with no buttons. Oh wait...

 

[Jocchan]

While "relying more on others" probably has something to do with third-party support, I wonder if they're referring more to parts of their infrastructure being licensed from or integrated with other platforms, i.e. Steam distribution, integration of established social networking tools, etc.?

A deal with Valve to have Steam as their online infrastructure would be beyond the level of megaton. Don't get your hopes up

At least Nintendo gets it, Microsoft.

Luckily they get it. All those rumors about the Café controller curiously forgetting to mention face buttons, honestly, had me a bit worried at first.

 

[justchris]

I understand that, had the Wii been more powerful, it would be in a better position now than it is in reality - in fact, I even believe that Nintendo is launching the Wii2 sooner than they would prefer owing to this fact.

I don't know, they're releasing "Cafe" on about the same schedule as they've released every console since the n64. If they were rushing, I think it'd be out by this year. Q2 or later of next year doesn't seem like they're particularly rushed at all.

In fact, everything about "Cafe" screams measured. The only reason we know it exists is because of leaks from 3rd parties that they've been working with way in advance of their projected release. The fact that they've started approaching 3rd parties so early in the process seems like they have a deliberate plan and long term goals in mind.

 

[Nirolak]

Actually, you know, this fiscal call information is half not about the Wii 2, so I think I'll move it into another thread since people have been complaining this topic is too megathready.

 

[EricDiesel]

I foresee six weeks of bitching in our future...

 

[beje]

A deal with Valve to have Steam as their online infrastructure would be beyond the level of megaton. Don't get your hopes up

Still, it would be the best way of gaining immediate indie support for downloadable games like what happened with the MAC Steam store and would provide automatic online infrastructure (at least for playing) at ZERO cost in R&D. BELIEVE.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

Steam works on a Nintendo console? If anyone has the stats to convince Nintendo...

No! Mustn't dream.

 

[Amir0x]

Luckily they get it. All those rumors about the Café controller curiously forgetting to mention face buttons, honestly, had me a bit worried at first.

yeah i was getting worried it'd be a screen with less buttons in favor of the screen but I suppose now it's just a really enormous controller with a screen

 

[Jocchan]

Still, it would be the best way of gaining immediate indie support for downloadable games like what happened with the MAC Steam store and would provide automatic online infrastructure (at least for playing) at ZERO cost in R&D. BELIEVE.

And it would make Nintendo skyrocket from the far worst online infrastructure in the console space to the best one in a heartbeat
Still, there is NOTHING pointing to it happening. Believing there's the slightest chance of this ever coming true means setting yourself up for a huge disappointment.

 

[Shiggy]

Steam works on a Nintendo console? If anyone has the stats to convince Nintendo...

No! Mustn't dream.

No thanks! I don't want thousand updates before starting a game.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

No thanks! I don't want thousand updates before starting a game.

I'm not sure you understand what Steamworks is.

 

[Shiggy]

I'm not sure you understand what Steamworks is.

You said Steam, so sorry then. What I meant was the Steam client, browsing through the store is a mess and its auto-updates are the main reason why I don't use it anymore...

 

[Woffls]

And it would make Nintendo skyrocket from the far worst online infrastructure in the console space to the best one in a heartbeat
Still, there is NOTHING pointing to it happening. Believing there's the slightest chance of this ever coming true means setting yourself up for a huge disappointment.

Weellllll we've got Iwata saying "Now I am aware that we should not rely too much on ourselves. You will see what I mean by this when we market the 3DS and the Wii in the future." We've also got both companies expressing a big interest in biometric feedback, AND Nintendo saying that online will be a big focus of theirs in the near future. Not to mention how well each company's software portfolio would complement each other.

1% chance of it happening, but we've got hints here and there.

Spoiler

I want to believe

 

[JaseC]

You said Steam, so sorry then. What I meant was the Steam client, browsing through the store is a mess and its auto-updates are the main reason why I don't use it anymore...

Disable them, then..?

 

[Luigiv]

Steam works on a Nintendo console? If anyone has the stats to convince Nintendo...

No! Mustn't dream.

If Valve releases a game on the Cafe, you can bet your ass that it'll have Steam support. Nintendo doesn't have anything against letting 3rd Parties use their own infrastructure on their systems. At least not big 3rd parties with bargaining muscle.