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[snesfreak]

I'm irrationally hopeful that the NintendoLand attractions are indicative of games planned to be released in the 1st 18 months.

Zelda has Dark World theme, LTTP remake/sequel confirmed.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

The Takemaru mini-game is extremely curious.

If the point of Nintendoland is to associate Nintendo IPs with the Wii Sports crowd, then Takemaru doesn't make a lick of sense.

 

[StreetsAhead]

The Takemaru mini-game is extremely curious.

If the point of Nintendoland is to associate Nintendo IPs with the Wii Sports crowd, then Takemaru doesn't make a lick of sense.

Aye, as is F-Zero.

Only makes sense if they're planning on doing something with the franchises, in my opinion.
Unless, they really wanted to use the ninja star idea from last year's video.

Game & Watch makes sense because Game & Wario, I suppose?

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Aye, as is F-Zero.

Only makes sense if they're planning on doing something with the franchises, in my opinion.
Unless, they really wanted to use the ninja star idea from last year's video.

Game & Watch makes sense because Game & Wario, I suppose?

I think Ninja Star could have worked just as well with Kirby. They seem to have no issue putting that minigame in to Kirby games.

 

[StreetsAhead]

I think Ninja Star could have worked just as well with Kirby. They seem to have no issue putting that minigame in to Kirby games.

Good point. In fact - why ninja stars - why not ... anything else?

For others, here's the franchises in NintendoLand and the relevant games:

Zelda: 3DS Zelda due 2013
Pikmin: Pikmin 3 (Wii U)
Metroid
Mario: NSMB2 (3DS) & NSMB U (Wii U)
Luigi: Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon (3DS)
Animal Crossing: Animal Crossing: Jump Out (3DS)
Yoshi: Small rumor of Good Feel Yoshi game
Game & Watch: Game & Wario (Wii U)
Donkey Kong: DKCR sequel rumors
Takamaru
F-Zero
Balloon Fight

But no Kirby - despite it being an anniversary year?

EDIT: Writing it out makes it seem less likely, but there's some odd franchise choices, if the goal is to acclimatize casuals to 'core' IPs.

 

[Gahiggidy]

The Takemaru mini-game is extremely curious.

If the point of Nintendoland is to associate Nintendo IPs with the Wii Sports crowd, then Takemaru doesn't make a lick of sense.

Eh, not really as they came up with the ninja stars trick for last years demo so they probably looked around for a suitable franchise to pair with the game and found Takemaru.


------

Hey is this Michel Ancel from Ubisoft in this show-floor video of Pikmin? A guy looking a lot like him walks up to the demo next over and stares at the screen intently. My theory is that the Rayman legends demo crashed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfw5rl0OXoQ

 

[Thunder Monkey]

God it's so damn depressing that the only things they showed off at E3 that made the Upad look like an interesting addition to gaming comes from a 3rd party dev.

Rayman... well okay this one would have looked awesome even without DRC functionality, but ZombiU actually takes the asymmetric gameplay idea and runs with it. Meanwhile you have Nintendo's application in NintendoLand that looks completely amateurish in comparison.

 

[EatChildren]

Hi new speculation thread.

Worst E3 console reveal of all time. Disaster on all fronts. It's like Nintendo almost specifically marketed the system to everything I'm not interested in.

Remember all that talk about how I'd assuredly get the system at launch? Nintendo pretty much sold me on the reality that I don't have to.

Disappointed does not express the upset I felt for Nintendo's Wii U presence.

The more we got informations on wii U hardware, the less I got hyped.
Seriously, we came from a 3 or 4 core Power7 and 1 Tflops GPU based on HD4850 to a 1 Power 7 core coupled with 2 single threaded core and 400Gflops based on HD4650.

The problem here was people got too caught up in trying to derive the architecture and power from pages of patents, hearsay and tech history to factor in the possibility that Nintendo will not be using high end or even all that modern hardware. Fact of the matter is nobody really knew anything, but they wanted to.

 

[Gahiggidy]

EatChildren,

Well, what other kind of games would you want to have at launch? Pikmin 3 and Zombi U are enough for me personally.

 

[EatChildren]

EatChildren,

Well, what other kind of games would you want to have at launch? Pikmin 3 and Zombi U are enough for me personally.

*shrug* I don't know. I think it was less the launch line-up, and more Nintendo's silly reluctance to show anything that isn't coming right away. I'm not excited for the Wii U, basically.

 

[fabricated backlash]

EatChildren,

Well, what other kind of games would you want to have at launch? Pikmin 3 and Zombi U are enough for me personally.

While I'm also happy with the launch line up and have about 4 games I absolutely want, it's easy to see how people are dissapointed by what was shown. I don't share that dissapointement, as the lineup is a nice and unique mix of games that none of the other two consoles will provide. Some never, and some not for some time. Allthough if they find a way to bring Rayman Legends to other consoles, I would be very happy. The game looks just outstanding, and should be enjoyed by more than those who bought Origins.

I would've loved to see Far Cry3 at launch or during the launch window, but I think Ubisoft will eventually bring it to the WiiU, besides ZombiU should keep me occupied for quite some time.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I'm not excited, but my position is

A) I am going to have to get a Wii U anyway because there will be exclusive games and if I can afford one at launch, then hooray. I mean, I own a Vita for fuck's sake.

B) If I bought one, there are four games in the launch window I would get.

So I'm not excited but I am pretty sure I don't get excited about new systems anymore, anyway.

 

[Gahiggidy]

*shrug* I don't know. I think it was less the launch line-up, and more Nintendo's silly reluctance to show anything that isn't coming right away. I'm not excited for the Wii U, basically.

Just imagine if Nintendo had held back Mario Galaxy and Metroid Prime from the 2006 show. Many people would not be excited for Wii either. Now, we can guess some pretty damn amazing Wii U games exist by the groups that made those two titles. I don't know if Nintendo is going to wait a full 12 months before showing that stuff off... but that doesn't stop us from speculating in the meantime. And, a lot of non-game info is still due to come out later, such as online plans and they have still not explained why the gamepad has an NFC spot.


It wouldn't be so hard if E3 wasn't an annual affair and the system was already out. Many of us have been following Nintendo's new console developments for around 15 months now with another 5 to go before we can actually own and play the thing. Its frustrating to wait all that time just to get a reveal of mostly casual/light game content and not the slightest peak of the more core/deep games down the road.

 

[TheCongressman1]

Yeah, I'm pretty happy with the way Pikmin and Zombi are looking, but I was really discouraged by the lack of future game info. A sizzle reel with some upcoming games would have worked wonders. Seeing Batman yet again for 5 minutes didn't do anything for me.

I'm still debating on the subject of purchasing at launch. Depends if we see anything about future games this year, I guess.

 

[Nibel]

I can't add anything to EatChildren's statement. Nintendo is unsuprisingly my favourite company on earth, but that re-reveal alienated myself from them. P-100, Pikmin 3 and NSMBU look very good, but this doesn't feel like a console I need in the moment.

I swear I was devastated last week like never before :lol

 

[Thunder Monkey]

I'm not excited, but my position is

A) I am going to have to get a Wii U anyway because there will be exclusive games and if I can afford one at launch, then hooray. I mean, I own a Vita for fuck's sake.

B) If I bought one, there are four games in the launch window I would get.

So I'm not excited but I am pretty sure I don't get excited about new systems anymore, anyway.

So I'm not excited either. But as of 2006 I still did the geeky thing, and buy into a concept completely.

The Wiimote I loved from the instant I saw it. To this day I don't think it got anything approaching a fair shake by the development community, and it really sucked to see Nintendo waiver to developer demands.

I should have been an easy get. Something unexpected for 2013 (stage showing of Watch_Dog or GTAV). A revival of a dead franchise (open world Retro helmed Mach Rider) set in the F-Zero universe of course. Demo reel of something from EAD Tokyo! Something to get goofy over.

At the very least give us a big game application of your core concept for the console.

 

[Log4Girlz]

Hi new speculation thread.

Worst E3 console reveal of all time. Disaster on all fronts. It's like Nintendo almost specifically marketed the system to everything I'm not interested in.

Remember all that talk about how I'd assuredly get the system at launch? Nintendo pretty much sold me on the reality that I don't have to.

Disappointed does not express the upset I felt for Nintendo's Wii U presence.



The problem here was people got too caught up in trying to derive the architecture and power from pages of patents, hearsay and tech history to factor in the possibility that Nintendo will not be using high end or even all that modern hardware. Fact of the matter is nobody really knew anything, but they wanted to.

I'm certain to get a Wii U eventually, I have a PC for teh grphx. Also, considering the Last of Us, Beyond, the Wii U IMO is powerful enough to generate some very nice graphics if the effort is put in....what Nintendo showed at E3 is that they couldn't care less for graphics, fat chance we will see anything amazing for a long time and...3rd parties could not care less either. Straight ports for all, fuck AA, 60 FPS or 1080 P resolution.

Fuck the hardcore.

Nintendo put on a shit eating grin and let the world know they are going after that IOS audience.

 

[Hylian]

So basicly, can someone cofirm this, wii u specs.

Cpu, 1x fully featured power 7 core, with 512kb cache, very beefy simd unit.
2x in order cores, 128/256 kb of cache. Locked cache per core, simd.

Gpu , ATi Radeon HD 4650 AGP
At A Glance
Manufacturer: ATi
Series: Radeon HD 4k
GPU: RV730
Release Date: 2009-04-09
Interface: AGP 8X
Core Clock: 600 MHz
Shader Clock: 600 MHz
Memory Clock: 500 MHz (1000 DDR)
Memory Bandwidth: 16 GB/sec
FLOPS: 384 GFLOPS
Pixel Fill Rate: 4800 MPixels/sec
Texture Fill Rate: 19200 MTexels/sec
Details
Max Power Draw: 48 W (at 55nm)
Noise Level: Moderate
Framebuffer: 512,1024 MB
Memory Type: DDR2
Memory Bus Type: 64x2 (128 bit)
DirectX Compliance: 10.1
OpenGL Compliance: 2.1
PS/VS Version: 4.1/4.1
Process: 55 nm
Shader Processors: 320
Pipeline Layout: ?
Texture Units: 32
Raster Operators 8

 

[wsippel]

I kinda think the GPU is a massively underclocked RV740 by now. I mean, not really a RV740, but a chip with the same basic core configuration (640:32:16). We don't have actual clocks for individual components, but with prior Nintendo systems, the DSP clock was always the base clock for everything - and we know the DSP clock. It's also known that heat and power consumption don't increase linearly with clock speed, so going with more transistors at a lower clock is more energy efficient. With a 120MHz base, the GPU would probably run at either 360 or 480MHz. If my assumptions are correct, the GPU should therefore provide either 460GFLOPS at ~20W or 614GFLOPS at ~30W. The former is more in line with what the Ubisoft dude said, but I tend to believe it might be the latter, as it looks like the system was designed with a higher power envelope in mind.

The problem here was people got too caught up in trying to derive the architecture and power from pages of patents, hearsay and tech history to factor in the possibility that Nintendo will not be using high end or even all that modern hardware. Fact of the matter is nobody really knew anything, but they wanted to.

The tech is "modern", just not very powerful. Not that age ever had all that much to do with performance in the first place.

 

[EatChildren]

Just imagine if Nintendo had held back Mario Galaxy and Metroid Prime from the 2006 show. Many people would not be excited for Wii either. Now, we can guess some pretty damn amazing Wii U games exist by the groups that made those two titles. I don't know if Nintendo is going to wait a full 12 months before showing that stuff off... but that doesn't stop us from speculating in the meantime. And, a lot of non-game info is still due to come out later, such as online plans and they have still not explained why the gamepad has an NFC spot.

I know. We can guess the games exist. We know they exist. But I imaginary thinking isn't something I want to fuel putting money down for a new system at launch.

Games drive momentum and hype, and Nintendo had almost none. I'll get the Wii U eventually, that is a guarantee. Not sure I'll get it at launch. We'll see how it goes leading up to the launch, but at the moment I just don't care about it. It could launch tomorrow and I wouldn't be phased.

Given the response from the general gaming community (on the internet, at least), Nintendo either missed the mark big time by failing to show that a new generation of Nintendo software was starting, or simply didn't give a single shit about the market that a would care, and wanted to appease the casual Wii market 100%. Batman demo on stage supports either option.

 

[burst]

Just a quick anecdote from the GC launch.

I remember when i got the cube at launch, i was really excited for rogue squadron but ended up having more fun playing Luigi's mansion and kept going back to that in the first few weeks. It was a short game so i ended up putting more hours into rogue squadron overall, trying to get the medals/unlocks. Even though as a 14 year old i was really exited about the mature titles and the visuals rogue squadron offered, i ended up preferring to play the a "casual" title.

I think this might be the case with the WiiU, i'll get batman:AC at launch and also zombiU, but i will probably end up putting more time into pikmin/P-001 just for something more light hearted and "fun".

 

[wsippel]

So basicly, can someone cofirm this, wii u specs.

Cpu, 1x fully featured power 7 core, with 512kb cache, very beefy simd unit.
2x in order cores, 128/256 kb of cache. Locked cache per core, simd.

That doesn't match any leak we got so far. And I wouldn't expect anything even remotely Power7 related.

 

[fabricated backlash]

I'm certain to get a Wii U eventually, I have a PC for teh grphx. Also, considering the Last of Us, Beyond, the Wii U IMO is powerful enough to generate some very nice graphics if the effort is put in....what Nintendo showed at E3 is that they couldn't care less for graphics, fat chance we will see anything amazing for a long time and...3rd parties could not care less either. Straight ports for all, fuck AA, 60 FPS or 1080 P resolution.

Fuck the hardcore.

Nintendo put on a shit eating grin and let the world know they are going after that IOS audience.

Given the cynical reactions, I'd say they are right to do so.

 

[Gahiggidy]

Maybe its just me, but I think there are glimpses of Wii U outputting stuff a step up from what we've been getting from the current consoles. Take this for example:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXmDf1XmXec

^^^
Its off screen, but those characters and the little world they run through look highly detailed and pretty much a fully realized rendering of what the designers must have imagined.

 

[EVIL]

Maybe its just me, but I think there are glimpses of Wii U outputting stuff a step up from what we've been getting from the current consoles. Take this for example:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXmDf1XmXec

^^^
Its off screen, but those characters and the little world they run through look highly detailed and pretty much a fully realized rendering of what the designers must have imagined.

The style has been executed very well but I can't say that these visuals technical are a step above the HD twin games, or even on the same footing, but that doesn't mean the Wii u is suddenly weaker then the HD twins.
Things aren't fully developed yet and I can imagine we will see allot more visual impressive elements within that game closer to launch.

Project P100 on the other hand manages to push style and pretty impressive visuals at a stunning smooth framerate! This title has impressed me most.

 

[Hylian]

That doesn't match any leak we got so far. And I wouldn't expect anything even remotely Power7 related.

Yeah so its just some unnamed power series core with 512kb cache?.
What about the other two cores, any info on them, is there a simd unit in them or are they comparable to xenos cores?

 

[TheCongressman1]

Given the cynical reactions, I'd say they are right to do so.

They say they're going after the core, and then show nothing that backs that up. I'd say that (most) cynical reactions are justified.

 

[Erethian]

I know. We can guess the games exist. We know they exist. But I imaginary thinking isn't something I want to fuel putting money down for a new system at launch.

Games drive momentum and hype, and Nintendo had almost none. I'll get the Wii U eventually, that is a guarantee. Not sure I'll get it at launch. We'll see how it goes leading up to the launch, but at the moment I just don't care about it. It could launch tomorrow and I wouldn't be phased.

Given the response from the general gaming community (on the internet, at least), Nintendo either missed the mark big time by failing to show that a new generation of Nintendo software was starting, or simply didn't give a single shit about the market that a would care, and wanted to appease the casual Wii market 100%. Batman demo on stage supports either option.

The Batman demo on stage was for the benefit of third party relations. And Nintendo's habit of only announcing games due in the next 6 months or less has become a deeply ingrained thing ever since they started Nintendo Direct, and I can't say it's worked out too badly for them so far.

 

[Dr.Hadji]

God it's so damn depressing that the only things they showed off at E3 that made the Upad look like an interesting addition to core gaming comes from a 3rd party dev.

Rayman... well okay this one would have looked awesome even without DRC functionality, but ZombiU actually takes the asymmetric gameplay idea and runs with it. Meanwhile you have Nintendo's application in NintendoLand that looks completely amateurish in comparison.

Here, fixed it for you. Its like some people don't consider mini-game collections games or something. Don't know how you could not think any variation of Pacman Vs is not an interesting addition to gaming.

And no it doesn't. It takes real time menus and item selection and runs with with. Nintendo (besides Rayman) is the only company that showed asymmetric gameplay (players with Wiimotes having a different "view" than the person with the Upad). Which is funny because you seem to think they were shamed in an area they almost exclusively presented at the show.

 

[Terrell]

Here is the best representation of the game I've seen. It is a good 16+ minutes and the guy playing is pretty funny as he gets scared at everything that jumps out at hime yet somehow manages to kill off the zombi in the nick of time. He uses the same survivor the whole time in this clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6PJpcBh7mU&feature=player_embedded

OK, that one scene with the scanner in the basement got me pretty good. I felt like crying. They're really doing a great job with this game.

Given the cynical reactions, I'd say they are right to do so.

Pretty much. Why cater to someone who's gonna take the piss out of you no matter what you do?

 

[EatChildren]

The Batman demo on stage was for the benefit of third party relations. And Nintendo's habit of only announcing games due in the next 6 months or less has become a deeply ingrained thing ever since they started Nintendo Direct, and I can't say it's worked out too badly for them so far.

I can only hope the demo was due to some deal with Warner to ensure further support. Otherwise demoing a port of a game that will be ~12 months old once the Wii U arrives is hardly beneficial to anybody except Nintendo only gamers and soccer mums who don't know what a PlayStation or Xbox is.

As for the Nintendo's schedule for announcing games, I know it, and for most part don't mind it. But for a console launch? Poor, if you're trying to appeal to a wide group of people. Closing the bridge between game announcements and releases works fine when all you're trying to sell is the games themselves. When you're trying to sell a much more expensive complete hardware package I don't think it works half as well.

Pretty much. Why cater to someone who's gonna take the piss out of you no matter what you do?

A huh. Right.

 

[Gahiggidy]

The style has been executed very well but I can't say that these visuals technical are a step above the HD twin games, or even on the same footing, but that doesn't mean the Wii u is suddenly weaker then the HD twins.
Things aren't fully developed yet and I can imagine we will see allot more visual impressive elements within that game closer to launch.

Project P100 on the other hand manages to push style and pretty impressive visuals at a stunning smooth framerate! This title has impressed me most.

Yes, P-100 is crazy good looking at times. There is alot of subtle shading to the materials of the various buildings that looks yummy. Back to Sweet Days; the game is running in five-way splitscreen and there is some very neat texturing effects, sush as the "quilt-shadding" that reflects light differently depending on the angle of the cross-stitching. And the little helmets they were have a convincing reflection and metallic sheen. I'm impresses with how "solid" everything is rendered.

I predict that Nintendoland will be the launch title that people go back to again and again to marvel at for its looks.

-------

EatChildren,

Word on the street is that the original plan was to highlight Aliens on stage, not Batman. But apparently Sega didn't feel it was ready to show and backed out. Also, its telling that even Batman wasn't a demo and just some corny trailer. I find it hard to believe Nintendo did not want to have an on-stage demo of some kind. See the Red Steele demo for the Wii debut, for example. I don't think highlighting Batman was their first choice.

 

[Erethian]

I can only hope the demo was due to some deal with Warner to ensure further support. Otherwise demoing a port of a game that will be ~12 months old once the Wii U arrives is hardly beneficial to anybody except Nintendo only gamers and soccer mums who don't know what a PlayStation or Xbox is.

As for the Nintendo's schedule for announcing games, I know it, and for most part don't mind it. But for a console launch? Poor, if you're trying to appeal to a wide group of people. Closing the bridge between game announcements and releases works fine when all you're trying to sell is the games themselves. When you're trying to sell a much more expensive complete hardware package I don't think it works half as well.

It's hard to say. Personally I don't think that, say, Nintendo announcing what Retro's working on with a brief teaser trailer (for example) would net a stastically significant increase in launch sales for people buying into the promise of that game. And I say that as someone who really, really wants to see what Retro is working on.

I think the only time something like that works is when you're coming off a hugely successful prior console and there's an overall expectation of broad developer support, rather than people looking forward to specific titles. Like I don't think the PS3 benefited by having a Final Fantasy or Metal Gear Solid game announced so early as much as it benefited from being the follow up to the PS2, so there was an overall expectation of support. (and I use benefited in the "stopped things from being incredibly worse" sense)

 

[Terrell]

I can only hope the demo was due to some deal with Warner to ensure further support.

Well, I'm sure Nintendo would have preferred to demo Injustice, another WB game, but all we got from that this E3 is a trailer.

A huh. Right.

Even the good stuff that Nintendo DID show at E3 that was meant to appeal to gamers got ripped apart like an overused tissue. Take a look at the first 2 pages of the P-100 thread, if you have doubts about that statement.

 

[fabricated backlash]

They say they're going after the core, and then show nothing that backs that up. I'd say that (most) cynical reactions are justified.

Most of the reactions I've seen are way overdramatic. True it was lacking, but people are acting as if Nintendo skinned their mother on stage. What did people expect from Pikmin 3? Guns Blood and Gore? Individually modelled dirt particles? Or is Pikmin suddenly no core Nintendo Franchise. Likewise NSMBU... is that also suddenly casual crap no one cares about?
Scribblenauts Unlimited... yeah totally nothing new and also just crap for grandparents.

The hype, especially here on GAF leading up to E3 was ridiculous. Most here brought this dissapointment upon themselves. Nintendo never said that Core gamers are the sole focus of the WiiU. They said they want to offer core gamers more than what they could with the Wii, and hell, the Gamepad alone shows that.

Now it's suddenly a huge betrayalton. But not just Nintendo, Hell even Sony and MS got so much shit this year, one has to ask if some people are actually liking games, or if they'd rather see the industry churning out the same shit over and over again, to please a narrow segment. Gaming is mainstream. It's part of everyday entertainment, and it's not going back to become a niche hobby catering to only a small self sustaining geek culture. This will still exist, but to delude yourself that hardware manufacturers would do something so financially suicidal as to cater to one group exclusively is just delusional.
Apple in particular is so successfull because they realized that gaming is just one thing that people like to do, it's just one thing you can monetize. Likewise consoles won't go back to become game only machines. This is simply not happening anymore. At least none of the big 3 manufacturers that is.

All of the 3 manufacturers this year have shown that sustaining a business of high cost titles alone is not sustainable, unless you spread your reach to audiences that have different interests. And to expect Nintendo of all companies to ignore the strategy and market share that brought them so much success, is just ridiculous. And after all the shoot, bang, gore porn that was dominant for most of the big showcases this year, seeing some non violent games like Rayman Legends with some mind blowing gameplay implementations, Scribblenauts with user created content, Nintendoland with great ideas on how to use asymetrical gameplay was kind of a relief.

Now let me be clear. There are many here who have a realistic view on what the WiiU is going to be and aren't running around like beheaded chicken after this E3. Especially this thread, while still having plenty of unwarranted cynics is at least tolerable to read and engage in.

*rant over*

Now that that's off my chest, I'll be off to write my next exam... wish me luck.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

And no it doesn't. It takes real time menus and item selection and runs with with. Nintendo (besides Rayman) is the only company that showed asymmetric gameplay (players with Wiimotes having a different "view" than the person with the Upad). Which is funny because you seem to think they were shamed in an area they almost exclusively presented at the show.

I'm not exactly adhering to Nintendo's definition of asymmetric gaming with that description. I'm looking at it as more of a single-player asymmetric gaming application. Being split between two divergent output devices, and having to respond accurately to both. This is different than what you'd see on the DS in a slight way. You don't have direct line of sight at all times with both.

ZombiU is a more elegant implementation within the confines of an established genre. Instead of the... well gimmicky implementation of NintendoLand. NSMBWU though looks to be a fun way of applying it to a standard genre. I can see my brother getting way too much entertainment out of it.

Even the good stuff that Nintendo DID show at E3 that was meant to appeal to gamers got ripped apart like an overused tissue. Take a look at the first 2 pages of the P-100 thread, if you have doubts about that statement.

The issue isn't those that were going to hate any way hating. They were going to regardless of what they showed. If GTAV would have been announced as an exclusive they would have found a reason to bitch.

They didn't show any reason for me to be excited. As much as I love Pikmin, and Mario I expected them to do more. And I've already covered that.

 

[EatChildren]

Even the good stuff that Nintendo DID show at E3 that was meant to appeal to gamers got ripped apart like an overused tissue. Take a look at the first 2 pages of the P-100 thread, if you have doubts about that statement.

The reactions from one group of people do not define everyone who might share those reactions. There is plenty of justifiable cynicism and disappointment from people who watched the Wii U re-reveal with genuine excitement and anticipation for what Nintendo would show.

It's hard to say. Personally I don't think that, say, Nintendo announcing what Retro's working on with a brief teaser trailer (for example) would net a stastically significant increase in launch sales for people buying into the promise of that game. And I say that as someone who really, really wants to see what Retro is working on.

I think the only time something like that works is when you're coming off a hugely successful prior console and there's an overall expectation of broad developer support, rather than people looking forward to specific titles. Like I don't think the PS3 benefited by having a Final Fantasy or Metal Gear Solid game announced so early as much as it benefited from being the follow up to the PS2, so there was an overall expectation of support. (and I use benefited in the "stopped things from being incredibly worse" sense)

I disagree. I think for a console launch, a major investment, you need to sell the idea of a whole package, which includes promises for the future. Nintendo's choice to hold content back and play their cards close to their chest appears to a specific group of people. Any talk of attracting the core gamer was hot air, and I'd argue the same for attracting anybody except the iOS/casual market and long time Nintendo fans who, for all intents and purposes, will buy the system at launch.

Perhaps Nintendo intends to expand the image of the Wii U's future as the system's launch gets closer.

EatChildren,

Word on the street is that the original plan was to highlight Aliens on stage, not Batman. But apparently Sega didn't feel it was ready to show and backed out. Also, its telling that even Batman wasn't a demo and just some corny trailer. I find it hard to believe Nintendo did not want to have an on-stage demo of some kind. See the Red Steele demo for the Wii debut, for example. I don't think highlighting Batman was their first choice.

Indeed. But it was there, and there it was.

 

[wsippel]

Yeah so its just some unnamed power series core with 512kb cache?.
What about the other two cores, any info on them, is there a simd unit in them or are they comparable to xenos cores?

The master core has 2MB cache, the slave cores have 512kB each. We don't know what the cores are based on, if it's in- or out-of-order, executions units, bitness - nothing. What we do know is that the only contemporary PowerPC core Nintendo's compiler supports is the 4xx series. And the 470S happens to be a 45nm SoI core, just like the Wii U CPU.

 

[Terrell]

The issue isn't those that were going to hate any way hating. They were going to regardless of what they showed. If GTAV would have been announced as an exclusive they would have found a reason to bitch.

They didn't show any reason for me to be excited. As much as I love Pikmin, and Mario I expected them to do more. And I've already covered that.

The thing is, and we all know this, a Nintendo fan will be just as excited about content that is announced in a Nintendo Direct or other press event as they would be showing it at E3. Nintendo knows this. I remember the "3DS Folder-ton" Nintendo Direct. So we're in the bag.

As well, most other core gamers follow the same news that we do, so they're covered as well.

The problem with E3 this year is that all Nintendo had to show us is a concept. Because that's all they wanted to show us, knowing that they can tell us everything else in time and still get us back. They weren't there to sell the games, they were there to sell the idea of the system itself. This is what it does, this is why it's a good idea. Whether they succeeded on that or not is up for debate, but that was the sole intent this year.

 

[Erethian]

I disagree. I think for a console launch, a major investment, you need to sell the idea of a whole package, which includes promises for the future. Nintendo's choice to hold content back and play their cards close to their chest appears to a specific group of people. Any talk of attracting the core gamer was hot air, and I'd argue the same for attracting anybody except the iOS/casual market and long time Nintendo fans who, for all intents and purposes, will buy the system at launch.

Perhaps Nintendo intends to expand the image of the Wii U's future as the system's launch gets closer.

That's always a possibility. I've no doubt they're going to have another major conference around TGS time where they go into more detail with the system (like actually talking about the eShop, online, UI, etc. There's so much they seem to have held back), and they might choose that as an opportunity to talk about other third-party titles. We didn't hear a lot from EA or Activision at E3 even though there are either direct reports or rumours of titles they're working on.

In some ways I feel their E3 showing is inconsequential to the success of the launch, as opposed to what they do in the months leading up. Whether they'll be able to do a repeat of the highly successful viral marketing they did for the Wii to start generating a real buzz. Like how they invited people and their friends to secret hands-on sessions with the system to have them act as ambassadors, of a sort, and build the word of mouth.

The whole coordination of marketing, the message of the system, its price, and Wii Sports was pretty incredible all round, thinking back on it.

 

[AzaK]

They say they're going after the core, and then show nothing that backs that up. I'd say that (most) cynical reactions are justified.

Very much. They spouted rhetoric to us and investors about the "core" then failed to walk the walk. Bait and switch.

 

[Übermatik]

Oh hey, this thread exists? Damn Community hiding away! Anyway, nice to see another thread alive and well...

Now, the speculation.

Just WHAT are RETRO making? And why couldn't it be shown this year or 'anytime soon'?
Is it THAT big, or just unfinished?

 

[Log4Girlz]

The master core has 2MB cache, the slave cores have 512kB each. We don't know what the cores are based on, if it's in- or out-of-order, executions units, bitness - nothing. What we do know is that the only contemporary PowerPC core Nintendo's compiler supports is the 4xx series. And the 470S happens to be a 45nm SoI core, just like the Wii U CPU.

Everything I read about the Wii U sounds like Nintendo wanted to make a Wii version of the Xbox 360 (50% more betterer in nearly every way, much like the Wii over the Gamecube) at a dirt cheap price. This level of performance would iron out some of the technical problems of last gen and allow slightly more sophisticated engines to run on it so it can get some sloppy down ports from the inevitable next-gen machines.

 

[DrWong]

This week - Thursday and Friday - there's a Wii U demo session for the press, in Paris. I'll be able to test it.

 

[Gahiggidy]

Its a brand new system launch without any competition from other console launches. Not even year two systems. It will literally be the only interesting piece of gaming hardware to put under the Christmas tree. I don't think it will have a problem selling out its shipments.

The question is what will happen February and beyond. For that reason, I expect Nintendo to hold games such as Wii Fit U and P-100 for the post holiday period.


------

Oh hey, this thread exists? Damn Community hiding away! Anyway, nice to see another thread alive and well...

Now, the speculation.

Just WHAT are RETRO making? And why couldn't it be shown this year or 'anytime soon'?
Is it THAT big, or just unfinished?

Well, according to this month-old rumor, Retro's game is "massive".

http://www.nintendoenthusiast.com/whispers-of-the-wii-around-the-industry-pre-e3-2012-edition/

^^^
I checked that old rumor report out and some things they got right, some very wrong. They hinted at black cases, yet they were confident the shape of the case would change.

 

[Log4Girlz]

Its a brand new system launch without any competition from other console launches. Not even year two systems. It will literally be the only interesting piece of gaming hardware to put under the Christmas tree. I don't think it will have a problem selling out its shipments.

The question is what will happen February and beyond. For that reason, I expect Nintendo to hold games such as Wii Fit U and P-100 for the post holiday period.

Yep, they should be fine during the holidays. Even the 3DS had a healthy first week.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

The thing is, and we all know this, a Nintendo fan will be just as excited about content that is announced in a Nintendo Direct or other press event as they would be showing it at E3. Nintendo knows this. I remember the "3DS Folder-ton" Nintendo Direct. So we're in the bag.

As well, most other core gamers follow the same news that we do, so they're covered as well.

The problem with E3 this year is that all Nintendo had to show us is a concept. Because that's all they wanted to show us, knowing that they can tell us everything else in time and still get us back. They weren't there to sell the games, they were there to sell the idea of the system itself. This is what it does, this is why it's a good idea. Whether they succeeded on that or not is up for debate, but that was the sole intent this year.

They waited a year between saying anything about the platform. And for their big reveal they announced three games(one we technically saw last year), one 3rd party collab, and spotlighted a game already released on other consoles with marginal if any visual enhancements or changes.

Did I mention that the one 1st party game flexing a little bit of technical muscle is a collection of minigames?

I can understand not wanting to put the budget into Pikmin necessary to really make it a visual standout... but they really needed something at the show.

 

[TheCongressman1]

Rant

I do agree with some of your points. I do think that some people did set themselves up for meltdown, but over all I can see why people are disappointed. Some people really were expecting the moon, but not everybody's expectations were so outlandish.

For over a year we've been expecting Nintendo to surpass current gen tech, making this the largest leap in tech for Nintendo ever. Coming from last year's showing of a highly detailed HD Zelda demo to a less graphically demanding NSMB is quite a step down. Not to say NSMB looks bad, just not what some people expected. I'd say that Pikmin looks fantastic, but that's just one first party game. You can't carry the idea of an HD Nintendo console to it's launch with one single game that's been in development as a Wii game for quite some time. We need to see what we can expect out of this system in the future.

Obviously it's a stretch to expect Zelda, 3D Mario, Metroid, Starfox all in the same year, but it's not so bad to expect a couple of the big names in first party games. I've already said this before: I have a feeling that if they had shown Retro's project, a lot of this would have been avoided. They needed to show something that pushes the newfound power. That would have relieved a lot of people's concerns.

The main problem here isn't the content, it's that the conference seems to have backfired for a lot of people. At the time, I was pretty disappointed with the conference, and I still am. Although, after viewing gameplay from the show floor, I'm happy with the content that was shown. This seems to be the case for plenty of people here. Better planning could have painted what was shown in an entirely different light the first time around.

Anyway, It's not like I'm not ready to explode at Nintendo, but I really could be more excited for this launch.

Oh, and good luck on your exam.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Yes, good luck boris.

Make leather-monkey-daddy proud.

 

[DrWong]

The main problem here isn't the content, it's that the conference seems to have backfired for a lot of people. At the time, I was pretty disappointed with the conference, and I still am. Although, after viewing gameplay from the show floor, I'm happy with the content that was shown. This seems to be the case for plenty of people here. Better planning could have painted what was shown in an entirely different light the first time around.

.