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[Übermatik]

Its a brand new system launch without any competition from other console launches. Not even year two systems. It will literally be the only interesting piece of gaming hardware to put under the Christmas tree. I don't think it will have a problem selling out its shipments.

The question is what will happen February and beyond. For that reason, I expect Nintendo to hold games such as Wii Fit U and P-100 for the post holiday period.


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Well, according to this month-old rumor, Retro's game is "massive".

http://www.nintendoenthusiast.com/whispers-of-the-wii-around-the-industry-pre-e3-2012-edition/

^^^
I checked that old rumor report out and some things they got right, some very wrong. They hinted at black cases, yet they were confident the shape of the case would change.

Every rumour we've seen so far points to this game being a hugely ambitious and 'epic' project. Whatever it is, ic can't wait - I just hope they show it before the system launches, because otherwise they're going to miss a lot of attention - including from me.

Also, when's TGS?

 

[AzaK]

At this point I would have been happy with some more fleshed out tech demos like the bird demo. Anything to show us what the thing can do as opposed to some ancient game with tacked on pad controls.

 

[Gahiggidy]

Ubermatik,

September 20th.

http://tgs.cesa.or.jp/english/



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At this point I would have been happy with some more fleshed out tech demos like the bird demo. Anything to show us what the thing can do as opposed to some ancient game with tacked on pad controls.

Why, exactly? For reassurance that it still has the same potential for graphics that those demo showed?

 

[Fabrik]

I can't add anything to EatChildren's statement. Nintendo is unsurprisingly my favourite company on earth, but that re-reveal alienated myself from them. P-100, Pikmin 3 and NSMBU look very good, but this doesn't feel like a console I need in the moment.

I swear I was devastated last week like never before :lol

Me too! I never felt like this before. And I don't think I had unrealistic expectations.
I just wanted to see at least one HD Nintendo game pushing the enveloppe.
Right now I don't have any excitement for the WiiU. I'll probably get Pikmin 3 but it's gonna be just kind of cool and not mindblowing. Project P-100 might be surprising though.
So this is the last time I expect anything from Nintendo and that's a damn shame. It's just weird to not look forward to their output. I didn't think it would happen one day.

 

[Hylian]

The master core has 2MB cache, the slave cores have 512kB each. We don't know what the cores are based on, if it's in- or out-of-order, executions units, bitness - nothing. What we do know is that the only contemporary PowerPC core Nintendo's compiler supports is the 4xx series. And the 470S happens to be a 45nm SoI core, just like the Wii U CPU.

Okay thanks .

Everything I read about the Wii U sounds like Nintendo wanted to make a Wii version of the Xbox 360 (50% more betterer in nearly every way, much like the Wii over the Gamecube) at a dirt cheap price. This level of performance would iron out some of the technical problems of last gen and allow slightly more sophisticated engines to run on it so it can get some sloppy down ports from the inevitable next-gen machines.

Yeah it seems so, but at this point, im not seeing much perceivable improvement in multiplats. Some of the games seem to not run not so great or look any better. I wonder how much can be improved due time.

 

[schuelma]

Remember all that talk about how I'd assuredly get the system at launch? Nintendo pretty much sold me on the reality that I don't have to.

Yup, pretty much exactly how I feel. Coming into E3, I was primed to buy it at launch.

Coming out of E3, I just have no real excitement for the console.

Intellectually, I know the launch lineup looks surprisingly decent.

Intellectually, I know Retro and EAD Tokyo are working on what I'm sure are great games.

But..right now I just don't have any real excitement for the system. No title I'm looking at that says I HAVE TO GET A WII U for that game.

Lack of 3rd party support was also a big red flag for me, and the whole Wii U getting ignored like Wii starting to look more and more feasible.

I'm sure I will end up getting a Wii U and it might even be at launch if Nintendo shows more software in the months ahead.

But E3 definitely did not do the job for me.

 

[Hylian]

I kinda think the GPU is a massively underclocked RV740 by now. I mean, not really a RV740, but a chip with the same basic core configuration (640:32:16). We don't have actual clocks for individual components, but with prior Nintendo systems, the DSP clock was always the base clock for everything - and we know the DSP clock. It's also known that heat and power consumption don't increase linearly with clock speed, so going with more transistors at a lower clock is more energy efficient. With a 120MHz base, the GPU would probably run at either 360 or 480MHz. If my assumptions are correct, the GPU should therefore provide either 460GFLOPS at ~20W or 614GFLOPS at ~30W. The former is more in line with what the Ubisoft dude said, but I tend to believe it might be the latter, as it looks like the system was designed with a higher power envelope in mind.



The tech is "modern", just not very powerful. Not that age ever had all that much to do with performance in the first place.

Im felt pretty good that its 4650 as a base (crystals ball , stars aligning ect).

 

[AzaK]

Ubermatik,

September 20th.

http://tgs.cesa.or.jp/english/



-----

Why, exactly? For reassurance that it still has the same potential for graphics that those demo showed?

Well mainly because what they showed was of little to no interest to me. Additionally I'm very keen to see it put through its paces. Leading up to e3 I did expect it to outshine the current gen to some degree so I wanted to see that for myself. If they didnt want to show actual games, I would have tKen demo. I do like nice graphics.

 

[DaSorcerer7]

Yup, pretty much exactly how I feel. Coming into E3, I was primed to buy it at launch.

Coming out of E3, I just have no real excitement for the console.

Intellectually, I know the launch lineup looks surprisingly decent.

Intellectually, I know Retro and EAD Tokyo are working on what I'm sure are great games.

But..right now I just don't have any real excitement for the system. No title I'm looking at that says I HAVE TO GET A WII U for that game.

Lack of 3rd party support was also a big red flag for me, and the whole Wii U getting ignored like Wii starting to look more and more feasible.

I'm sure I will end up getting a Wii U and it might even be at launch if Nintendo shows more software in the months ahead.

But E3 definitely did not do the job for me.

This pretty much sums up my sentiments perfectly. I sincerely hope that nintendo has more up its sleeve.

 

[Hylian]

Yup, pretty much exactly how I feel. Coming into E3, I was primed to buy it at launch.

Coming out of E3, I just have no real excitement for the console.

Intellectually, I know the launch lineup looks surprisingly decent.

Intellectually, I know Retro and EAD Tokyo are working on what I'm sure are great games.

But..right now I just don't have any real excitement for the system. No title I'm looking at that says I HAVE TO GET A WII U for that game.

Lack of 3rd party support was also a big red flag for me, and the whole Wii U getting ignored like Wii starting to look more and more feasible.

I'm sure I will end up getting a Wii U and it might even be at launch if Nintendo shows more software in the months ahead.

But E3 definitely did not do the job for me.

But going by your feeling, do you believe that the wii will have better/worse 1st/3rd party line up of software during its lifetime. Compared to wii or the hdtwins?.

 

[Gahiggidy]

Ironically, Nintendo could have cancelled E3, announced nothing, and we'd still be as hyped as ever.

Well mainly because what they showed was of little to no interest to me. Additionally I'm very keen to see it put through its paces. Leading up to e3 I did expect it to outshine the current gen to some degree so I wanted to see that for myself. If they didnt want to show actual games, I would have tKen demo. I do like nice graphics.

I'm the same way but there are others, on the gaming forum, that have judged the system's capabilities entirely on how the multi-platform games and Pikmin 3 look. They pretend that the Bird Demo and Zelda HD thing never existed.

 

[schuelma]

But going by your feeling, do you believe that the wii will have better/worse 1st/3rd party line up of software during its lifetime. Compared to wii or the hdtwins?.

I *think* it will be better than Wii, just because Nintendo is a stronger company this time around and I don't think the tech limitations will be quite so bad. But I don't think it will be close to PS4/720.

I've said this a lot, but I think the best case scenario is not gimped versions of the big yearly Western stuff (CoD, Madden, FIFA), and strong Japanese support.

To me a big bellwether is Capcom. Despite some intriguing efforts here and there and MH Tri, Wii was basically left out of the big franchises. Does Capcom include Wii U this time, or ignore it again?

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Oh and just so I wouldn't continue baseless stereotypes about monkeys and nana's I didn't mention, but Iwata with banana's was spectacular.

 

[AzaK]

Ironically, Nintendo could have cancelled E3, announced nothing, and we'd still be as hyped as ever.




I'm the same way but there are others, on the gaming forum, that have judged the system's capabilities entirely on how the multi-platform games and Pikmin 3 look. They pretend that the Bird Demo and Zelda HD thing never existed.

Yeah I'm torn. I'm down on the system a bit because of the "cant see any difference from current gen" thing. Even Pikmin didn't have AA and I'd have thought that would have been a no brainer if it was possible. Then again we still have those leaked specs and they seem to point to something that should be noticeably better than current gen.

Since e3 my stance has changed from optimistic, to quite cautiously so. With the odd bit of ranting and wanting to kick Iwata and Reggie in the bollocks.

 

[DaSorcerer7]

I *think* it will be better than Wii, just because Nintendo is a stronger company this time around and I don't think the tech limitations will be quite so bad. But I don't think it will be close to PS4/720.

I've said this a lot, but I think the best case scenario is not gimped versions of the big yearly Western stuff (CoD, Madden, FIFA), and strong Japanese support.

To me a big bellwether is Capcom. Despite some intriguing efforts here and there and MH Tri, Wii was basically left out of the big franchises. Does Capcom include Wii U this time, or ignore it again?

One can only hope that their relatively strong 3DS support is a good indicator, but i'm not bringing my hopes up.

 

[Hylian]

I *think* it will be better than Wii, just because Nintendo is a stronger company this time around and I don't think the tech limitations will be quite so bad. But I don't think it will be close to PS4/720.

I've said this a lot, but I think the best case scenario is not gimped versions of the big yearly Western stuff (CoD, Madden, FIFA), and strong Japanese support.

To me a big bellwether is Capcom. Despite some intriguing efforts here and there and MH Tri, Wii was basically left out of the big franchises. Does Capcom include Wii U this time, or ignore it again?

I have this feeling that, if p100 is succesfull, Capcom might get interested. If not, well it just becomes another excuse.

 

[Gahiggidy]

Oh and just so I wouldn't continue baseless stereotypes about monkeys and nana's I didn't mention, but Iwata with banana's was spectacular.

Where did that originate, anyways? I must have missed it during the chaos.

 

[AzaK]

I have this feeling that, if p100 is succesfull, Capcom might get interested. If not, well it just becomes another excuse.

It's a strange game to use as a test. Just make a western style shooter like everyone else.

 

[Donnie]

I don't doubt Espresso has dev kit access, but at the same time lherre and the person I got the PS4 specs from both said it had 3 cores and two threads per core. I'm going to go with them until it's clearly known otherwise.

What makes you think he has access to a dev kit?

 

[GhostTrick]

I kinda think the GPU is a massively underclocked RV740 by now. I mean, not really a RV740, but a chip with the same basic core configuration (640:32:16). We don't have actual clocks for individual components, but with prior Nintendo systems, the DSP clock was always the base clock for everything - and we know the DSP clock. It's also known that heat and power consumption don't increase linearly with clock speed, so going with more transistors at a lower clock is more energy efficient. With a 120MHz base, the GPU would probably run at either 360 or 480MHz. If my assumptions are correct, the GPU should therefore provide either 460GFLOPS at ~20W or 614GFLOPS at ~30W. The former is more in line with what the Ubisoft dude said, but I tend to believe it might be the latter, as it looks like the system was designed with a higher power envelope in mind.



The tech is "modern", just not very powerful. Not that age ever had all that much to do with performance in the first place.

According to the leak, WiiU's GPU has 8 ROP.
So my guess is HD4650 to HD4670 basis.That would be on par with declarations like Wii U being on par or GPU being 1.5 to 2x the raw performance of Xbox 360's GPU.

 

[Hylian]

Ironically, Nintendo could have cancelled E3, announced nothing, and we'd still be as hyped as ever.




I'm the same way but there are others, on the gaming forum, that have judged the system's capabilities entirely on how the multi-platform games and Pikmin 3 look. They pretend that the Bird Demo and Zelda HD thing never existed.

I think this backlash has been long coming, Nintendo is currently in the cycle of transitioning to HD assets. I think it will take time for them to create a technology base that will show what they can do in this level of technical and artistic fidelity. We all know they have it in them. The question is, are they willing to do it again, and how serious nintendo is in taking on this challenge , the bar only keeps rising as time goes on. If this e3 is to go by, they are more than happy running mario and pikmin in HD it seems. But i know they have more abtitious projects for this hardware than that, why else would they have created this powerfull hardware, if its only wii games they intend to run in HD?

 

[blu]

hey blu

Yep, i thought it was crystal-clear in my post that dev kit didn't have an off-the-shelf RV700 chip inside them, as i already said that before. I'm saying that it was further customized since the time those spec were relevant, and talking of comparable raw power & feature-set. Like here: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=38704756&postcount=1166

Perhaps. But I was not speaking of what was in the devkits. I was just saying that U-GPU was never "just an R700", though it did spawn from the latter.

 

[Log4Girlz]

According to the leak, WiiU's GPU has 8 ROP.
So my guess is HD4650 to HD4670 basis.That would be on par with declarations like Wii U being on par or GPU being 1.5 to 2x the raw performance of Xbox 360's GPU.

Well, its probably clocked real low.

 

[GhostTrick]

Well, its probably clocked real low.

I don't know, but for sure, Nintendo will not get 3rd party. Maybe they'll get PS360 ports but we shouldn't count on PS4720 ports. And that's a bit sad because Nintendo clearly had other options to get something that is 5x Xbox 360 raw performance without going expensive or power hungry.

 

[Roo]

Forbes Strikes Again

Spoiler

what a surprise... meh

Wii U version looks worse than the PS3 one

http://blogs-images.forbes.com/erikkain/files/2012/06/BatmanVergleichBig.jpg

See the full size image here. But even in the smaller version it’s not hard to see how much better the PS3 version looks than the Wii U version.
To be fair, this is just one screenshot. It’s possible that the game will look amazing and this one example is a poor one.

Still, despite the fact that the PS3 is seven years old and the Wii U isn’t even out yet, the PlayStation version of the game looks more detailed and realistic. The tilt on the Wii U version makes it hard to really analyze draw distance, but it appears to be worse than the PS3′s. I wish both screens were identical, giving us a clearer comparison.

The Joker looks pretty similar in both the PS3 and Wii U shots, but the Wii U Batman looks oddly cartoonish and even the suit (which is jarringly glossy) appears less detailed, right down to the color.
I’m beginning to wonder whether the Wii U will be able to hold its own against the Xbox 720 and PS4. Will Nintendo be able to surprise us all once again with a graphically inferior console? Gameplay is key, but graphics do matter, especially if you’re determining which console has the best cross-platform performance.

P.S. I realize that Batman is wearing a different suit of armor in both screenshots, making this comparison more difficult. Armor aside, even Batman’s face looks worse in the Wii U screen. However, I do agree that we should withhold judgment until more screens are available.

click here to read more BS

troll harder, Forbes.. troll harder

 

[Hylian]

It's a strange game to use as a test. Just make a western style shooter like everyone else.

How serious is kamiya with this project, i mean there is no realistic art direction. It must be done by the D team and flop in flames. Im confident western mainstream press not even understanding it being anything beyond those grazy japanes tv shows. Is it ?

 

[Donnie]

According to the leak, WiiU's GPU has 8 ROP.
So my guess is HD4650 to HD4670 basis.That would be on par with declarations like Wii U being on par or GPU being 1.5 to 2x the raw performance of Xbox 360's GPU.

What leak are you referring to? I haven't seen any mention of ROPS in any of the info I've seen.

 

[GhostTrick]

What leak are you referring to? I haven't seen any mention of ROPS in any of the info I've seen.

VG leaks speak about 8 render target for Wii U GPU.

 

[Log4Girlz]

Forbes Strikes Again

Spoiler

what a surprise... meh

Wii U version looks worse than the PS3 one



troll harder, Forbes.. troll harder

Well, something is not right, I will agree. Probably just shit poor art design decisions. Batman looks awful.

 

[Gahiggidy]

The PS3 screen is a bullshot. Unless Sony's box has magnificently better AA than Microsoft's, the game doesn't look that smooth in reality.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

Forbes Strikes Again

Spoiler

what a surprise... meh

Wii U version looks worse than the PS3 one



troll harder, Forbes.. troll harder

you are not even providing a link to this blog post? I wanted to read the silly comments

 

[Roo]

you are not even providing a link to this blog post? I wanted to read the silly comments

Sorry
click here to read BS

 

[Smiles and Cries]

Sorry
click here to read BS

meh I was disappointed by the comments so far... they are too reasonable

 

[+Aliken+]

I we want to check comparison this looks better
http://wiiudaily.com/2012/06/batman-arkham-city-wii-u-vs-ps3-comparison/

 

[Donnie]

VG leaks speak about 8 render target for Wii U GPU.

A render target isn't a ROP, its a buffer used to render a frame.

 

[GhostTrick]

A render target isn't a ROP, its a buffer used to render a frame.

Oh thanks ! Then I understand my mistake.

 

[Log4Girlz]

I we want to check comparison this looks better
http://wiiudaily.com/2012/06/batman-arkham-city-wii-u-vs-ps3-comparison/

Wii U looks blurrier and they added some curtains. I need bigger screens. :/

 

[+Aliken+]

Wii U looks blurrier and they added some curtains. I need bigger screens. :/

I have seen those screens bigger in another thread here on GAF but I can't find the post

 

[wsippel]

Wii U looks blurrier and they added some curtains. I need bigger screens. :/

The Wii U version does motion blur.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

I we want to check comparison this looks better
http://wiiudaily.com/2012/06/batman-arkham-city-wii-u-vs-ps3-comparison/

unless the WiiU version is finished already and it will not get polished up than it looks like the same game and looks worst with the burry parts

this could be too early for all of this but so far PS3 would win even with my bad vision

 

[Log4Girlz]

I have seen those screens bigger in another thread here on GAF but I can't find the post

What was your assessment?

 

[DaSorcerer7]

Guys/gals how credible is WiiUDaily?

 

[Smiles and Cries]

Guys/gals how credible is WiiUDaily?

a blog like any other?
it could take off and get exclusive who knows as long as gaffers what to keep linking them in our threads

credibility though that is harder to say

 

[+Aliken+]

What was your assessment?

Favourable.

On the bottom two screens the textures looked better on the Wii U version and this was noticable on the red clothes and on the alter under the statue.

As for the top picture the Wii U had some missing elements like the lights in the background and the barbed wire (background on the right side of the tower).
However the tower was more detailed.

It looked like a better version of the game, not a big jump but still better.

 

[EatChildren]

I have no idea how the PS3 version of Arkham City is, but it's an UE3 game, so I figure if you want to compare it to the 'best' console version the Xbox 360 release might be a better choice.

 

[blu]

P.S. I realize that Batman is wearing a different suit of armor in both screenshots, making this comparison more difficult. Armor aside, even Batman’s face looks worse in the Wii U screen. However, I do agree that we should withhold judgment until more screens are available.

Where do I subscribe to above guy's graphics analyses?

A render target isn't a ROP, its a buffer used to render a frame.

More precisely, it's how many such buffers a single fragment shader can output to.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

I have no idea how the PS3 version of Arkham City is, but it's an UE3 game, so I figure if you want to compare it to the 'best' console version the Xbox 360 release might be a better choice.

So these two blogs should be using 360 images?

Do we have any?

Anyone expect Warner Bros to come out and say the WiiU version is the best version?

also has Aliens AC proven the WiiU version is the best looking version? What became of that claim guys?

 

[Nibel]

Does no one see that Batman wears a different armor in the Wii U version? This is like comparing two different screenshots

 

[Log4Girlz]

Does no one see that Batman wears a different armor in the Wii U version? This is like comparing two different screenshots

Yes, he is wearing some hideous, ridiculous, buffoonish armor.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

Yes, he is wearing some hideous, ridiculous, buffoonish armor.

tell us how you really feel :3