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Wii U Community Thread

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Potential Megaton if true?

The return of Banjo and Kazooie to their rightful home

http://www.zeldainformer.com/news/c...negotiate-its-way-into-ownership-of-banjo-and

"According to the tipster, Nintendo is in direct negotiations with Microsoft to buy RARE, though the purpose of buying them seems to be all based around getting the rights to Banjo and Kazooie. Of course, we can't forget the other key franchises Nintendo gets with the acquisition. Conker's Bad Fur Day may have been shunned by Nintendo, but a sequel to that game should be embraced by the Nintendo brass if they want the Wii U to really be for everyone. Of course, this rumor doesn't stop there - it goes as far as to suggest that Retro Studios is actually deep into development on a Banjo and Kazooie title, and that the talks with Microsoft have been ongoing for some time."
The logic seems flawed. Nintendo buying Rare back for Banjo Kazooie makes no sense; as they have plenty platformers on their own.

Nintendo would be more likely to buy them for Perfect Dark, a genre they don't really do, than for Banjo Kazooie.


To top it all out:

Bandai-Namco issued a release about your purchase of Monolith Software. Have you changed your position that you will not do M&A (mergers and acquisitions)? Or, is this an exception? What is the purpose?

Satoru Iwata:
"When we say we do not do M&A (mergers and acquisitions), there are always exceptions, so let me explain about it. We have never said that we will never do M&A in any situation. Actually, we are not against M&A if Nintendo can absorb the real value of the company. However, in most cases, the value of software developing companies is attached to its people, not the company, which is merely a vessel for its people. So, when we purchase a company, we can purchase the vessel, but we cannot necessarily purchase the contents. Even if we should compete with others to purchase a software company, although we might be able to increase the sheer number of our developers and to gain a short-term result, we do not think it will do good for us in the long run. We have been repeatedly saying that we will not do that kind of M&A.

In the case of Monolith Software, Mr. Sugiura, the president, and Nintendo have a long-term relationship. How Mr. Sugiura thinks is close to how Nintendo thinks. The software Mr. Sugiura would like to create is in line with what Nintendo would like to have for its platform. So, we thought that Nintendo should support this idea, and we decided to take action.

If certain conditions are met, we may do the same thing in the future (M&A). However, we will be very careful and selective, so that we will only partner with people with whom Nintendo can create a long-term working relationship."
Source: http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/070427qa/index.html

Rare's vessel is empty.


As for Retro Studios doing a Banjo Kazooie title I call bullshit; they wouldn't put themselves in a position where their game could be blocked from existence at any time by a competitor. Simply makes no sense.
 

ugoo18

Member
What would your reactions be if Nintendo announced Banjo Threere at TGS 2012/E3 2013?.

970341_o.gif
 
oh my god

Zelda Informer is full of complete bullshit like always. One of the worst source of leaks/rumours related to Nintendo on the internet. Either lying for hits or gullible as fuck.

But most importantly, Rare as you knew it were dead. Seriously guys, come on. Who makes games? Who is responsible for game quality? A company name, or the actual people making the game?

Rare's had so many staff turnarounds and changes since Microsoft picked them up a decade ago that they're only a shell of the company they once were. The people who made the games you love are gone. They work elsewhere.

Rare is over. It was time to let go years ago.

Question. How the hell isn't Zelda Informer banned? I don't think they've gotten any rumor right and if an actual useful source like the place where you go for nintendo news is banned I certainly think Zelda Informer deerves it

Edit: Retro Studios on Banjo Kazooie? Yeah....right
 

AzaK

Member
Possibly will start an argument with this but Banjo Kazooie >>>>>>>>>>>>> Mario 64 :)

I could quite easily be swayed to agree with you there :) SM64 was first so blew my mind in that regard, but I played the shit out of Banjo and loved it.
 

ugoo18

Member
Question. How the hell isn't Zelda Informer banned? I don't think they've gotten any rumor right and if an actual useful source like the place where you go for nintendo news is banned I certainly think Zelda Informer deerves it

Edit: Retro Studios on Banjo Kazooie? Yeah....right

Seems more like Rare's IP's are what they are after and why not after all DKC:R imo is a better game than Jungle Beat which the SMG team did if i remember correctly.
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Question. How the hell isn't Zelda Informer banned? I don't think they've gotten any rumor right and if an actual useful source like the place where you go for nintendo news is banned I certainly think Zelda Informer deerves it

I have no idea.
 

Meelow

Banned
this rumor doesn't stop there - it goes as far as to suggest that Retro Studios is actually deep into development on a Banjo and Kazooie title, and that the talks with Microsoft have been ongoing for some time."

Ok so how can Retro be making Banjo if they don't have the rights?, oh Zelda Informer, how you disappoint.
 

tkscz

Member
Potential Megaton if true?

The return of Banjo and Kazooie to their rightful home

http://www.zeldainformer.com/news/c...negotiate-its-way-into-ownership-of-banjo-and

"According to the tipster, Nintendo is in direct negotiations with Microsoft to buy RARE, though the purpose of buying them seems to be all based around getting the rights to Banjo and Kazooie. Of course, we can't forget the other key franchises Nintendo gets with the acquisition. Conker's Bad Fur Day may have been shunned by Nintendo, but a sequel to that game should be embraced by the Nintendo brass if they want the Wii U to really be for everyone. Of course, this rumor doesn't stop there - it goes as far as to suggest that Retro Studios is actually deep into development on a Banjo and Kazooie title, and that the talks with Microsoft have been ongoing for some time."

mariohead.jpg


Do you know how many times I've been asking for Retro to buy Rare? This would make me cry in happiness if true.
 
anyone seen this?

http://www.thegamerscene.com/2012/07/wii-us-graphics-wont-be-a-generation-leap-at-launch-2-big-titles-yet-to-be-announced/

One is a driving game, and the other is a FPS/3PS.

He also told me that Nintendo are aiming for a release date between October 21st and November 18th.

Major unannounced 3rd party games, October/November release date... we've heard all this already, I guess. Does anyone know if this site has a history of posting reliable info?

EA will have Mass Effect 3 FIFA13 and MADDEN 13 and NBA Live 13, the latter not being announced but definitely being worked on as confirmed by EA The only other two games to be really announced which has not been confirmed is MOH Warfighter and Need For Speed: Most Wanted. These are the two games which I believe to be the ones hinted in the article and what EA will be announing as they said they were announcing a couple of titles.

I don't think UBISOFT will announce more than one more title for the launch window up to march, with the possibility of only Splinter Cell around march which will already bring them to about 10 announced titles. Activision will definitely have 007 Legends, Call of Duty: Black Ops II, Skylanders: Giants and Transformers Prime I don't think they will have anything else besides those for launch window.

Warner Brothers Interactive probably have most of their games being released such as
Batman Arkham City, Injustice: Gods Among Us, Lego The Lord of the Rings (not announced), Scribblenauts Unlimited and Spy Hunter I don't think they have anything else that is a good possibility for Wii U besides some eshop games not announced.

Namco/D3 has Ben 10: Omniverse, Rise OF The Guardians, Tekken TT2, Tank! Tank! Tank! and a party game of some sort.

Konami will have Pro Evo and Lords of Shadow 2
Sega Has Sega All Stars and Aliens Colonial Marines plus whatever is announced in the japanese conference
Square Enix has Dragon Quest and whatever they announce in the japanese conference
THQ has Darksiders 2 and SpongeBob U Pants not sure what else they have in the pipeline as metro has kind of been cancelled.
Codemasters has F1 and Dirt
Capcom hasn't announced anything but Ono mentioned ninjas so wait for spaceworld. like the rest of the japanese publishers I guess.
Nintendo already has 8 games for launch window but I am guessing they have two titles that will be announced that will release in march that are more core oriented titles but this last bit is just wishful thinking.


We are looking at a launch window that will have anywhere between 48-60 retail titles being released by end of march next year which is not too bad at all. The Nintendo direct in early september will confirm whether the Wii U will indeed get more than 50 launch window titles but even as of now it is pretty solid evne though a lot of them are multiplatform titles. If there are going to be any exclusive titles it will probably come from a japanese company as Ubisoft is the only one so far with a Wii U exclusive for launch window.
 
HD gaming begins. We start to see some of the most realistic looking games and lots of technical marvels. Motion controlled gaming is introduced and changes the landscape. 720p and 30fps with no to little AA with low textures is the norm. Online gaming takes off.

Just saying, but "HD gaming" isn't a revolutionary thing. It's an increase in screen resolution, something that happens nearly every generation. And every generation it results in "some of the most realistic looking games and lots of technical marvels". I'll grant you online gaming as a thing that totally upended (and made less fun for me) console gaming, though it wasn't something really new to gaming, since it was pretty popular in the computer realm for a decade prior.


But most importantly, Rare as you knew it were dead. Seriously guys, come on. Who makes games? Who is responsible for game quality? A company name, or the actual people making the game?

Rare's had so many staff turnarounds and changes since Microsoft picked them up a decade ago that they're only a shell of the company they once were. The people who made the games you love are gone. They work elsewhere.

Rare is over. It was time to let go years ago.

Even more than that, Rare had its exodus of talent before Nintendo sold them off. All Nintendo would be getting here is a logo and the development rights to the games. If they wanted to actually make a good Rare game, they'd have to farm the work out to, oh I dunno, Crytek.
 
Question. How the hell isn't Zelda Informer banned? I don't think they've gotten any rumor right and if an actual useful source like the place where you go for nintendo news is banned I certainly think Zelda Informer deerves it

For a site to be banned, it actually has to cause a ruckus here. You don't get people spamming the front page of Gaming with ZI threads all the time like people did with the other sites that got banned. Go Nintendo is a pretty fun site, and the mods don't have problems with it per se, but peoples' treatment of it really killed the S:N ratio of the forum. This has yet to happen with Zelda Informer.


Never played Perfect Dark and Killer Instinct is a fighting game, which by definition means it sucks. :)

You take that back! Karate Champ was a true classic!

Maybe all the ones after that were a bit samey, though.


That said, PD and KI are properties unlike pretty much everything Nintendo makes. Adding BK could serve to dilute their currently "strong enough" library of games in that same genre.
 
ZI bsing like always I see :\
How would Retro even make a new Banjo? Doesnt Microsoft still own it?

If Nintendo bought Rare, I think it'd be implicit that they'd be buying the Rare IPs.


edit: It suddenly strikes me that 'higgit would have to edit his gaming basement pic if Rare suddenly stopped sucking by way of being Nintendo.
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Even more than that, Rare had its exodus of talent before Nintendo sold them off. All Nintendo would be getting here is a logo and the development rights to the games. If they wanted to actually make a good Rare game, they'd have to farm the work out to, oh I dunno, Crytek.

Exactly.

Fact of the matter is that Nintendo does not need Banjo. I loved Banjo-Kazooie back in the day, but Nintendo does not need him. Nintendo already owns two platformer specific franchises: Super Mario Bros. and Donkey Kong Country. Super Mario Bros. as an IP is significantly stronger than Banzo-Kazooie ever was, and Donkey Kong probably stronger too.

The only reason Microsoft would want to give up an IP they paid for years ago would be for money. Nintendo would have to buy back Banjo. And as above, they do not need to, nor would they want to. Banjo fills no gap in Nintendo's library, and if Nintendo is going to buy any IP rights it will be for franchises and games that do. Not genres they're already successful at, arguably the most successful in the world.

Plus, as said by myself and others, Zelda Informer is full of shit and always have been. They're a pack of liars and/or idiots.
 
Potential Megaton if true?

The return of Banjo and Kazooie to their rightful home



"According to the tipster, Nintendo is in direct negotiations with Microsoft to buy RARE, though the purpose of buying them seems to be all based around getting the rights to Banjo and Kazooie. Of course, we can't forget the other key franchises Nintendo gets with the acquisition. Conker's Bad Fur Day may have been shunned by Nintendo, but a sequel to that game should be embraced by the Nintendo brass if they want the Wii U to really be for everyone. Of course, this rumor doesn't stop there - it goes as far as to suggest that Retro Studios is actually deep into development on a Banjo and Kazooie title, and that the talks with Microsoft have been ongoing for some time."



If Nintendo got RARE back, that means they could get GoldeneyeConker's Bad Fury day and tons of other games made by RARE on virtual console.. And maybe a slim chance of getting a lot of the old rare members back to make new games, like Banjo Kazooie.

Sounds way too good to be true though. But it's better to try..
 
This topic is boring. I'm going to retroactively change the ZI story so there's actually something actually Megaton-worthy in it.

Potential Megaton if true?

The return of colourful first person shooting to its rightful home

http://www.zeldainformer.com/news/co...p-of-cortana-and

"According to the tipster, Nintendo is in direct negotiations with Microsoft to buy BUNGIE, though the purpose of buying them seems to be all based around getting the rights to Halo and ... Halo. Of course, we can't forget the other key franchises Nintendo gets with the acquisition. .... Welp, that's pretty much it."

please to be ignoring the flaw in the above story where Microsoft doesn't actually own Bungie anymore. It still doesn't make the story any less likely than the actual one posted
 

Drago

Member
Potential Megaton if true?

The return of Banjo and Kazooie to their rightful home

http://www.zeldainformer.com/news/c...negotiate-its-way-into-ownership-of-banjo-and

"According to the tipster, Nintendo is in direct negotiations with Microsoft to buy RARE, though the purpose of buying them seems to be all based around getting the rights to Banjo and Kazooie. Of course, we can't forget the other key franchises Nintendo gets with the acquisition. Conker's Bad Fur Day may have been shunned by Nintendo, but a sequel to that game should be embraced by the Nintendo brass if they want the Wii U to really be for everyone. Of course, this rumor doesn't stop there - it goes as far as to suggest that Retro Studios is actually deep into development on a Banjo and Kazooie title, and that the talks with Microsoft have been ongoing for some time."
Please be real PLEASE

:eek:
 

Meelow

Banned
If Nintendo got RARE back, that means they could get GoldeneyeConker's Bad Fury day and tons of other games made by RARE on virtual console.. And maybe a slim chance of getting a lot of the old rare members back to make new games, like Banjo Kazooie.

Sounds way too good to be true though. But it's better to try..

I think Nintendo should of still had the right to put Banjo Kazooie and Tooie on the VC, they helped with development so I don't find it fair.
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Half-Life 3 to be exclusives to the Wii U, with a side story spin-off to the 3DS. Connectivity play speculated.

Rumour courtesy of ZELDA INFORMER, the most reliable source of poo on the internet.
 
If Nintendo got RARE back, that means they could get GoldeneyeConker's Bad Fury day and tons of other games made by RARE on virtual console.. And maybe a slim chance of getting a lot of the old rare members back to make new games, like Banjo Kazooie.

Sounds way too good to be true though. But it's better to try..

Just a thing here, but Rare does not own Goldeneye. And Conker bombed three times on the market. In one case, they'd have to still throw money at BondCorp or whomever (what was it, like "Brocolli" or some name like that?), and in the other there'd be almost no point.



GAFInformer said:
Rumour courtesy of ZELDA INFORMER, the most reliable source of poo on the internet.

If it's The Great Mighty Poo, I'll believe anything you say!
 

Anth0ny

Member
Potential Megaton if true?

The return of Banjo and Kazooie to their rightful home

http://www.zeldainformer.com/news/c...negotiate-its-way-into-ownership-of-banjo-and

"According to the tipster, Nintendo is in direct negotiations with Microsoft to buy RARE, though the purpose of buying them seems to be all based around getting the rights to Banjo and Kazooie. Of course, we can't forget the other key franchises Nintendo gets with the acquisition. Conker's Bad Fur Day may have been shunned by Nintendo, but a sequel to that game should be embraced by the Nintendo brass if they want the Wii U to really be for everyone. Of course, this rumor doesn't stop there - it goes as far as to suggest that Retro Studios is actually deep into development on a Banjo and Kazooie title, and that the talks with Microsoft have been ongoing for some time."

>zelda informer

charlie_murphy_laughiabjeb.gif
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
I don't believe the RARE news for a second but oh man how fantastic would that be.

Nintendo in charge of the Banjo-Kazooie franchise? YES PLEASE.
 
Zelda Informer is absolutely looking for hits. This is the same fansite that wrote an article titled "Why The Legend of Zelda Series is Completely Overrated...and That's Okay."
 
Can't nintendo just buy the rights to at least banjo and perfect dark? microsoft obviously will not be using any of rare's ips since they are focused on doing kinect games and it sucks to see banjo become irrelevent
 
Oh, wow. I was hunting around RMC's digs to see if he reposted the ZI story (hoping for some snarkremark), and they have an infographic on Nintendo and Sega.

I was not aware that Sega started in 1940. It's a lot older than I thought.

I certainly didn't know that it started as an American Hawaiian* company.



Anyway, sorry, OT and all, but for my brain it was too mindblowing to resist sharing.


* edit: whoops, forgot it didn't become as state until later!
 
Since we're speculating pretty high here... I've been thinking regarding the Wii U actual capacity and how competing with more powerful platforms will unfold and have come to the conclusion that if anything there can ease that it's tesselation (and tiled rendering if it's by any means available).

Tesselation basically frees the platform from this generation limitations, which looking back is standard LOD (and it's alternatives: pop-in and model swaps), meaning that we could probably recreate X360 graphics with less power since it could maintain the polycount for close-ups/closeby objects and simplify stuff that are farther away via that method. Also means that a platform with the power of a X360 could possibly maintain it's graphic fidelity on a Xenoblade type of game. With that in mind Wii U doesn't seem in the same category as current gen anymore and even if multiplatform games are prettier elsewhere if the assets don't have to be manually scaled down and will run anyway providing tesselation gets used albeit with less detail, crossing content around platforms shouldn't be such a pain in the arse as it typically is with lesser powerful platforms.


Anyway, I was backtracking to introduce something; basically a tesselation unit can act as a detail adding/subtracting tool and theorectically could be applied for anything; be it by adding massive detail if the platform can manage it to taking it in order for the engine to keep up.

The thing is anything 3D can benefit from this.


Some of us remember Truform. Truform is a precursor to Tesselation and the code for it was freely available, so Orkin (a plugin developer in the N64 scene a few years ago) actually tried it out on N64 games. So I'm putting the results here:

No Tesselation > Tesselation




No Tesselation > Tesselation




No Tesselation > Tesselation





Now, N64 was really low poly and thus stuff like objects being interpreted as "fat" by adding polygons/detail was a given (see link's sword handle) so they don't always appear right due to lack of detail in the first place, such is not a problem on, say NGC games, or Wii games, I think I have a hard-on just from imagining Super Mario Galaxy 1/2 remastered and running with the help of the tesselation unit.

Wind Waker running with additive tesselation could look as if it didn't have polygons on characters and the like requiring no messing with the character models.

Now, knowing Nintendo we know they probably won't pull this kind of optimizations on their software, but IMO they totally should. (just make it able to be turned on and off if it's via virtual console) Also, since we're talking VC optimizations, widescreen hacks, please.
 
oh my god

Zelda Informer is full of complete bullshit like always. One of the worst source of leaks/rumours related to Nintendo on the internet. Either lying for hits or gullible as fuck.

But most importantly, Rare as you knew it were dead. Seriously guys, come on. Who makes games? Who is responsible for game quality? A company name, or the actual people making the game?

Rare's had so many staff turnarounds and changes since Microsoft picked them up a decade ago that they're only a shell of the company they once were. The people who made the games you love are gone. They work elsewhere.

Rare is over. It was time to let go years ago.

Cheers, saved me a lot of typing. This ^^
 

Lyude77

Member
For a site to be banned, it actually has to cause a ruckus here. You don't get people spamming the front page of Gaming with ZI threads all the time like people did with the other sites that got banned. Go Nintendo is a pretty fun site, and the mods don't have problems with it per se, but peoples' treatment of it really killed the S:N ratio of the forum. This has yet to happen with Zelda Informer.

So does that mean I should start posting a bunch of Zelda Informer threads? :p

I would like to see a Banjo Threeie because I loved Banjo Tooie, but it's not gonna happen, sadly. I'll just wait for Nuts & Bolts to go to $5 and get it, I guess.
 
This doesn't even qualify as a rumor. Why would Nintendo waste their time buying the entirety of Rare when they're only after the Banjo-Kazooie IP?
 

DekuLink

Member
Well, they do write:

Zelda Informer said:
Every fiber of my body wants this rumor to come true, but I know better. You might as well take this rumor with 3 giant semi-trucks of salt because if I was a betting man (and I am), I would throw my life savings in the corner of falsehood here. But we can dream can’t we? RARE and Nintendo back together? Banjo and Kazooie back where they belong (and likely in a Smash game to boot?). For once can one of these anonymous tips be right? Doubtful, but God willing we will get our way.

At least something.
 
Wasn't it Nintendo that blocked the remake of the original Goldeneye HD? I'm sorry but if they took that, polished it even more I'd buy it in a heartbeat. Plus a new Killer Instinct would be AMAZING. I don't really believe that rumor though. Won't even get hopeful about it, just would benefit Nintendo more than Microsoft I think. Who knows if it would even be worth it though.
 
Well, they do write:



At least something.

They're just trying to cover their bases. If it's not true, it's "Well, we didn't think it was true either." If it turns out to be real, they'll brag about being the first ones to break the story. I'm almost positive that you can submit a falsified rumor, and they'll post it if they think it'll attract people.
 
Wasn't it Nintendo that blocked the remake of the original Goldeneye HD? I'm sorry but if they took that, polished it even more I'd buy it in a heartbeat. Plus a new Killer Instinct would be AMAZING. I don't really believe that rumor though. Won't even get hopeful about it, just would benefit Nintendo more than Microsoft I think. Who knows if it would even be worth it though.

I don't think that was confirmed anywhere. It was a Kotaku rumour. People just assumed it was true because "it's Nintendo".
 

jmizzal

Member
Why so much focus on Banjo? Why not get Perfect Dark & Killer Instinct back on Nintendo consoles and then we'll talk.....

This give me Killer Instinct U

Better yet give me Perfect Dark U made by Retro studios :D, talk about glorious

Nintendo should just buy the IP's back, MS can keep the company.
 
I don't think that was confirmed anywhere. It was a Kotaku rumour. People just assumed it was true because "it's Nintendo".

I didn't know that. Seemed legit to me since it would be the only reason why it never came out. Then again, the Bond license itself might have been the issue as well.
 

japtor

Member
If Nintendo got RARE back, that means they could get GoldeneyeConker's Bad Fury day and tons of other games made by RARE on virtual console.. And maybe a slim chance of getting a lot of the old rare members back to make new games, like Banjo Kazooie.

Sounds way too good to be true though. But it's better to try..
The Goldeneye people went to Free Radical and worked on TimeSplitters then went out of business. Some are at Crytek UK and others are working on free to play games or something.

And here's my first try at that with iOS dictation while sort of mumbling, I think it still applies:
Go to people with the theoretical return splinters in the business. Chrissake UK border working free to play games
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
The GoldenEye situation was always a bit of a mess. Microsoft owned Rare and thus the game code, Nintendo had certain publishing rights to GoldenEye N64, and Activision owned the James Bond license.

From memory, Microsoft wanted to release the GoldenEye remake, and it was decided through Activision or whoever that this would be okay if Nintendo agreed and Nintendo were allowed to re-release the original version on the virtual console. Nintendo rejected the idea.

Activision then went and reimagined GoldenEye with Daniel Craig. A minor partnership with Nintendo guaranteed timed exclusivity.
 

chris3116

Member
Potential Megaton if true?

The return of Banjo and Kazooie to their rightful home

http://www.zeldainformer.com/news/c...negotiate-its-way-into-ownership-of-banjo-and

"According to the tipster, Nintendo is in direct negotiations with Microsoft to buy RARE, though the purpose of buying them seems to be all based around getting the rights to Banjo and Kazooie. Of course, we can't forget the other key franchises Nintendo gets with the acquisition. Conker's Bad Fur Day may have been shunned by Nintendo, but a sequel to that game should be embraced by the Nintendo brass if they want the Wii U to really be for everyone. Of course, this rumor doesn't stop there - it goes as far as to suggest that Retro Studios is actually deep into development on a Banjo and Kazooie title, and that the talks with Microsoft have been ongoing for some time."

This is fake. There's nothing on this that could be true. Why would Nintendo spend money to bring back this franchise?
 
Was Banjo Tooie that good? Are the XBLA versions of the games really worth it that much?

Definitely worth it on XBLA. It's basically Metroid Prime 2 to Banjo-Kazooie's Metroid Prime. Far more complex, intricate, and difficult, occasionally more frustrating, but often more rewarding. It's a game you'll need to put a lot of time into to fully appreciate. Either way it's 10 bucks I think and a damn good collectathon if nothing else.
 
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