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Wii U Community Thread

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G

Glorified G

Member
Mpl90 said:
So, summing the last pages of tech talk, not only Wii U has a next gen ready GPU, but we're having more and more "confirmations" that the difference will be much less than last gen?
Click to expand...

You forgot about the shit-tacular cpu, which still can cause problems next gen even if cpus in general may not play a big part in development in the future compared to the past.
 
S

StevieP

Banned
Glorified G said:
You forgot about the shit-tacular cpu, which still can cause problems next gen even if cpus in general may not play a big part in development in the future compared to the past.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't it be interesting if we had 2 platforms with a low power CPU and a better GPU (with a 6-700gflop GPU faced off against a 1.8tf gpu) and then another platform with a far more powerful CPU and a 1.3tf GPU?
 
G

Glorified G

Member
StevieP said:
Wouldn't it be interesting if we had 2 platforms with a low power CPU and a better GPU (with a 6-700gflop GPU faced off against a 1.8tf gpu) and then another platform with a far more powerful CPU and a 1.3tf GPU?
Click to expand...

Ms may even go with an excessive amount of slow ram. This would all suck for multiplatform development. I would want at least 2 out of the three to be close spec wise.
 
T

Thraktor

Member
wsippel said:
Wwise is still a very specific piece of middleware, with very specific requirements. It's absolutely possible that the Wii U is really good at what Audiokinetic needs, but pretty bad at other workloads like physics or something. That's something I didn't take into account a few months ago, as I expected the system to be pretty close to a 360. Now it seems that it's rather different.
Click to expand...

That's true, but, like physics, audio isn't something which benefits hugely from out-of-order execution. The added cache should be an advantage, though.

bgassassin said:
Did you see the key thing from the discussion? Supposedly the issue with Wii U is that the GPGPU capabilities aren't being used for the most part. This bodes well for the future if this is the case.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I wouldn't expect any GPGPU functionality being used in launch games. It wouldn't surprise me if Havok have GPU physics up and running, though, as they've supported GPU-accelerated physics on PC for years, but it would be something developers would have to adapt their games to utilize, to a certain extent.
 
A

AzaK

Member
bgassassin said:
Wsippel gave me the heads up on a very interesting post on B3D.
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1648950&postcount=1248
Click to expand...
Oh fucking great.

bgassassin said:
Did you see the key thing from the discussion? Supposedly the issue with Wii U is that the GPGPU capabilities aren't being used for the most part. This bodes well for the future if this is the case.
Click to expand...

Yeah but we're not in the future until the PS4/720 come out. So what do we get? Games straining to make the cut for the first year of the Wii U's release due to a shitty CPU? This sounds like fucking madness.

Any new info on what this CPU is and what it's clocked at?
 
A

Agent Unknown

Member
Instro said:
I'm not sure why you would think something like this, Kamiya has always directed these kinds of games. Have you not played Veiwtiful Joe or Okami? Those were the games he was working on for 5-6 years before he did Bayonetta. Hell one of his first Capcom games was some cartoony puzzle game. Kamiya is not the type of person to make something he does not want to make, he has probably been shopping this idea around for a while and Nintendo were the ones that bit. The idea that he is only making this style of game because its for a Nintendo console is ridiculous.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I guess on further reflection I was being way too negative.
 
G

gamergirly

Member
Mpl90 said:
...Ops, I didn't put the question mark in there. I wanted to ask if what I said was the truth. XD

Let's ask it correctly.

So, summing the last pages of tech talk, not only Wii U has a next gen ready GPU, but we're having more and more "confirmations" that the difference will be much less than last gen?
Click to expand...
. I guess
 
W

wsippel

Banned
Thraktor said:
That's true, but, like physics, audio isn't something which benefits hugely from out-of-order execution. The added cache should be an advantage, though.
Click to expand...
As surprising at it is, the physics we see in games actually don't really benefit from OoOE all that much. They're very much in-order, highly predictable and perform exceptionally well on chips like Xenon or Cell - and even better on GPUs. There's a huge difference between actual physics in scientific computing and game physics. The difference is that game physics are mostly eyecandy and hardly or nor at all interdependent. Game physics is stuff like debris flying around: Initial position, vector, mass, gravity - and that's pretty much it. Even audio is much more unpredictable.
 
E

EDarkness

Member
BD1 said:
Since Watch Dogs is PS3/360, I'd be really disappointed if they don't release it on Wii U. The GamePad seems like a perfect marriage for what we've seen so far.
Click to expand...

You can pretty much bet that Watch Dogs is gonna make it to the Wii U. Like I told my wife, you shouldn't even sweat it. There have been so many people asking for a Wii U version, Ubisoft is not gonna leave money on the table. As I told the Ubisoft guys, the game screams Wii U. It'll come, unless something major happens.
 
I

Instro

Member
T

theviolenthero

Member
Roman said:
It seems to me all the major online heavy 3rd party games are either under NDA or just not shown yet because we don't have a firm grasp on how the Wii U's online is going to work.

None of the EA sports games were at E3, no Call of Duty, no re-showing of Ghost Recon...
Click to expand...


Ya, this is how i see it too.
To me the online capabilities of the WiiU is the #1 issue facing the system.
 
S

schuelma

Wastes hours checking old Famitsu software data, but that's why we love him.
Instro said:
Hm I notice that the Madden one that they said info will be coming later this summer. I suppose that confirms the alleged Wii U summer conference.
Click to expand...

That Madden link is wrong- they took a vague EA statement and turned that into Madden and FIFA confirmed.
 
D

donny2112

Member
schuelma said:
That Madden link is wrong- they took a vague EA statement and turned that into Madden and FIFA confirmed.
Click to expand...

Yeah. It could be that Nintendo told developers to wait for a bigger unveil of games at their Wii U information event announcing price/release date, but there hasn't been a clear announcement/hint of Madden 13 on Wii U that I've seen. EA's putting out a Wii version this year, though, so it seems sort of like a no-brainer. Very confusing messages. :lol
 
B

bgassassin

Member
Shadow Hog said:
Some say his skin has the texture of a dolphin's, and that wherever you are in the world, if you tune your radio to 88.4, you can actually hear his thoughts... Some say he can swim seven lengths under water, and he has webbed buttocks... Some say that he has no understanding of clouds, and that his ear wax tastes like Turkish delight...

All we know is, he's called Japesy.
Click to expand...

XD

Mpl90 said:
So, summing the last pages of tech talk, not only Wii U has a next gen ready GPU, but we're having more and more "confirmations" that the difference will be much less than last gen?
Click to expand...

Now you all are finally able to have a tangible idea of what I was talking about in the past and the gap between the consoles. It will be smaller than the gap between PS360 and current high-end PCs.

AzaK said:
Yeah but we're not in the future until the PS4/720 come out. So what do we get? Games straining to make the cut for the first year of the Wii's release due to a shitty CPU? This is sounds like fucking madness.

Any new info on what this CPU is and what it's clocked at?
Click to expand...

I'm more giddy now than I was before. Now that we seem to have a reason why the CPU is the way it is, it's not the same level of issue as before. After all why should we give so much importance to PS360 ports when their successors are right around the corner? That's a sacrifice I'm happy to see.
 
T

Thraktor

Member
wsippel said:
As surprising at it is, the physics we see in games actually don't really benefit from OoOE all that much. They're very much in-order, highly predictable and perform exceptionally well on chips like Xenon or Cell - and even better on GPUs. There's a huge difference between actual physics in scientific computing and game physics. The difference is that game physics are mostly eyecandy and hardly or nor at all interdependent. Game physics is stuff like debris flying around: Initial position, vector, mass, gravity - and that's pretty much it. Even audio is much more unpredictable.
Click to expand...

That's what I was saying; out-of-order execution doesn't benefit physics code. My point was that audio doesn't benefit much from OoOE either.
 
T

TunaLover

Member
I'm out the loop, this thread is at full speed again it seems ;D

Where's the gap we could expect from say PS4 and Wii U, in the worst case scenario?
 
tkscz

tkscz

Member
Hmmm.... well if you think about it, the CPU doesn't need to be so powerful. Nintendo made the WiiU as little CPU centric as possible. The CPU doesn't handle the In/Out operations (or at least I think it doesn't as last I checked the WiiU had a dedicated I/O chip), it doesn't handle ANY of the sounds thanks to the DSP. The GPU seems to be the star of the WiiU's hardware, if devs built an engine optimized for all of this, the CPU wouldn't seem so weak.

This is just speculation of course, feel free to correct me.
 
S

schuelma

Wastes hours checking old Famitsu software data, but that's why we love him.
donny2112 said:
Yeah. It could be that Nintendo told developers to wait for a bigger unveil of games at their Wii U information event announcing price/release date, but there hasn't been a clear announcement/hint of Madden 13 on Wii U that I've seen. EA's putting out a Wii version this year, though, so it seems sort of like a no-brainer. Very confusing messages. :lol
Click to expand...

I dunno- Peter Moore's Spike interview from last week made it seem like we would not see EA Sports stuff until next year.
 
A

AzaK

Member
bgassassin said:
XD
I'm more giddy now than I was before. Now that we seem to have a reason why the CPU is the way it is, it's not the same level of issue as before. After all why should we give so much importance to PS360 ports when their successors are right around the corner? That's a sacrifice I'm happy to see.
Click to expand...

But what is that reason, the computer shaders? There's no reason why there can't be both compute shaders and a decent CPU. I understand that having these CSs is great for when the PS4/720 come out, that's awesome, I really think it is, but no need to gimp the CPU (Yes, cost I imagine is the reason). Wii U NEEDS ports of those other games, and I'm guessing it's looking like Nintendo is thinking "If they can just copy the PS60 for a year, that's OK. Screw giving the fans exciting new visuals".

Second, are CSs on a GPU that's not particularly grunty going to be any better than a decent CPU?

Thirs, do you think this CS rumour is that secret sauce that's been alluded to or could it be something else?

And finally, Nintendo, put those CS's to use and show us something sexy you mofos.
 
N

NateDrake

Member
bgassassin said:
Now you all are finally able to have a tangible idea of what I was talking about in the past and the gap between the consoles. It will be smaller than the gap between PS360 and current high-end PCs.
Click to expand...

That is great news. However, I expect a lot of angry/disappointed folk when it comes to next-gen in general as the leap, while strong, won't be amazing.
 
S

schuelma

Wastes hours checking old Famitsu software data, but that's why we love him.
Splinter Cell:Blacklist now also being listed on the Best Buy US site (was previously on the Canada one.
 
Smiles and Cries

Smiles and Cries

Member
Wii U console reviews on Amazon http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0050SVHZO/?tag=neogaf0e-20
amazing! how do these people get these things so damn early... so jelly :3



udivision said:
has nintendo even attempted to make the argument that "you should buy this at launch?"
Click to expand...

Nah. I was so late getting my NES in 1988 they did not mind then why should they make a fuss now?

since this is not a portable there is not revision to worry about so I am in,
without strong sales at the beginning this thing is so doomed :(

I kept telling myself I would play Xenoblade on the Gamepad as the first thing I do
my copy is sitting here just need my WiiU

I just need to stop walking by that Apple Store that is tempting me
 
A

Agent Unknown

Member
are those baby Yoshis? I thought they were frogs with gas
Click to expand...

Dinosaurs who need to eat some antacid tablets. :p And ElectricBlanketFire pointed this out in another thread, could it be a tribute to Bubble Bobble?

new_super_mario_bros_u_toad.jpg


bubble-bobble-old-and-new-20040930054015943.jpg
 
B

bgassassin

Member
TunaLover said:
I'm out the loop, this thread is at full speed again it seems ;D

Where's the gap we could expect from say PS4 and Wii U, in the worst case scenario?
Click to expand...

Xbox vs DC

tkscz said:
Hmmm.... well if you think about it, the CPU doesn't need to be so powerful. Nintendo made the WiiU as little CPU centric as possible. The CPU doesn't handle the In/Out operations (or at least I think it doesn't as last I checked the WiiU had a dedicated I/O chip), it doesn't handle ANY of the sounds thanks to the DSP. The GPU seems to be the star of the WiiU's hardware, if devs built an engine optimized for all of this, the CPU wouldn't seem so weak.

This is just speculation of course, feel free to correct me.
Click to expand...

Looks good to me at least.

AzaK said:
But what is that reason, the computer shaders? There's no reason why there can't be both compute shaders and a decent CPU. I understand that having these CSs is great for when the PS4/720 come out, that's awesome, I really think it is, but no need to gimp the CPU (Yes, cost I imagine is the reason). Wii U NEEDS ports of those other games, and I'm guessing it's looking like Nintendo is thinking "If they can just copy the PS60 for a year, that's OK. Screw giving the fans exciting new visuals".

Second, are CSs on a GPU that's not particularly grunty going to be any better than a decent CPU?

Thirs, do you think this CS rumour is that secret sauce that's been alluded to or could it be something else?

And finally, Nintendo, put those CS's to use and show us something sexy you mofos.
Click to expand...

First someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I think compute (no -r) shaders are a DirectX thing so Nintendo would use OpenCL, but don't forget the DSP and I/O as well. And sure something more powerful would have been nice, but that would have been more for PS360 ports. Though they may have underestimated it and in turn used that tweaking time to give it a small boost. I would say your Nintendo though is too strong because that would suggest they never plan to give exciting new visuals. If anything it's more like "We'll bear with this for now till we the engines better utilize the hardware".

Second, if they went with a more powerful CPU it wouldn't be "necessary" for the GPU to handle that, but you should look back at wsippel's post for a better understanding of the benefits.

Third, it could be at least a part of it yes. I don't think it would be the sole thing though.

Finally, just be patient.

Van Owen said:
Remember when the Wii U CPU was a super powerful chip based on Watson? lol
Click to expand...

Yep. Though that was our assumption based on what we knew at the time. Based on what we know now your post is pretty irrelevant. :)
 
D

Donnie

Member
Log4Girlz said:
So ultra weak sauce cpu to be helped out by 400 GFLOP GPU. Well there goes any advantage the GPU had over Xenos. :/
Click to expand...

Being weaker in floating point performance than CELL or Xenos doesn't make a CPU weak. In fact the CPU could easily be better than those two at everything else. It would merely make it a different CPU design aimed at different tasks. For instance Xenos/CELL are focused on flops, great at physics but poor at most other tasks. So if you're planning on physics being performed on your GPU they're completely the wrong kind of CPU to use. A CPU with better performance in other areas such as AI and game code compliments a GPGPU far better.

Of course a CPU with Xenons floating point performance AND much better performance in other areas would be even better still simply to make porting of current gen games easier, but at what expense and power usage? This after all doesn't make porting impossible, far from it, it just means developers may need to take advantages of WiiUs hardware in order to get certain games working right. But for the future having a GPGPU and less floating point capable CPU is certainly better than having a standard GPU and more floating point capable CPU.

Also there's no reason to assume 400GFflops is the ceiling for the GPU performance.
 
S

schuelma

Wastes hours checking old Famitsu software data, but that's why we love him.
soulassssns said:
Rumors = Fact on not only Neogaf but B3D as well.

Sigh....
Click to expand...

Its fun to speculate, and I appreciate the insights and guesses.

It will be nice to hopefully see a great looking first party game in action to somewhat put the speculation aside.
 
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