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[DynamicG]

I should say the perception of not giving a shit, from my perspective. In that the conference seemed either unprepared (long winded, poor explained Nintendo Land demonstration), or the company uninterested in selling their product as something very new and unique. Lot's of 'safe' games shown, ports, and a general sense of treading water versus making a big deal of everything.

And again, this perception is due to the way Nintendo had beautifully handled past console reveals. Both the pre-launch E3's for the Wii and 3DS were quite wonderful and a showed a big investment from Nintendo. E3 2012 lacked this, I felt.

I perceived it as a socially isolated company that is really bad at tapping into what public trends are in America. From my perspective, they totally misread what made the Wii cool and exciting and attempted to repeat it with a more complex product that is much abstract in concept and thus more difficult to explain. I honestly think they've always been bad at reading American culture and the "good launches" were flukes.

The Wii innovation was easy to see and demonstrate. With the 3DS the "wow" comes quickly because of the 3D screen. The WiiU is a bit more difficult to explain and show off.The DS had a slow-burn at first because the dual screen concept was more abstract and difficult to explain. They also mainly showed off abstract tech demos for a while before launch and launched with a rehashed Mario game.The WiiU launch and the DS phat launch are similar in many capacities.

I agree they failed to generate excitement around their product in the average consumer, but it's also possible that wasn't something that was in the cards with the product they were bringing to market.

I think it's spurious to automatically correlate a the quality of a product debut presentation with the amount of effort put into it. Launching a a product and gaining public perception is much harder than merely trying, no matter how effortless they have made it look in the past.

 

[Apophis2036]

I'm going to nuke this word into oblivion. Hey everyone. Lets stop using that word in this thread ok? I means nothing if a 2d Mario game isn't core. The word is worthless.

I would say the NSMB games are aimed more at the casual, kid, family audience and the 3D Mario games (Mario 64, Sunshine, Galaxy 1 & 2) are aimed at more of the core, older gamers.

Once NSMB 2 and NSMB U are released worldwide that series will have probably outsold every 3D Mario game ever made, it caters to a much larger casual / family orientated audience, it's not meant to be an insult to the franchise.

 

[DrWong]

Sometimes I've this feeling to be reading an "HD twins thread"... :/

 

[Apophis2036]

I think it's spurious to automatically correlate a presentation with the amount of effort put into it. Launching a a product and gaining public perception is much harder than merely trying, no matter how effortless they have made it look in the past.

All they had to say right at the end when Reggie came out for the final time was 'here is what our first party developers are working on for the future' and shown even 60 seconds with flashes of all their massive IP's running on the new HD hardware and people would have been floored.

It really isn't rocket science to get gamers hyped, esp Nintendo fans, look at the reaction a 20 second Zelda HD tech demo got, people talked about that for a whole year.

 

[Jaded Alyx]

I would say the NSMB games are aimed more at the casual, kid, family audience and the 3D Mario games (Mario 64, Sunshine, Galaxy 1 & 2) are aimed at more of the core, older gamers.

Once NSMB 2 and NSMB U are released worldwide that series will have probably outsold every 3D Mario game ever made, it caters to a much larger casual / family orientated audience, it's not meant to be an insult to the franchise.

What does core game mean? Hardcore?

What is a hardcore game?

Is CoD casual by your definition, because it sells far more than say, Half-life?

EDIT: While we're at it, what's a casual gamer? Someone who doesn't play many games, or someone who doesn't play often?

 

[tkscz]

Bioshock Infinite is coming to the WiiU eventually

http://www.clickonline.com/games/bioshock-infinite-pushed-back-on-wii-u/12166/

I don't want Bioshock Infinite, I want System Shock 3. Bring that to the WiiU and make it from the ground up. Do it 2k, do it.

 

[royalan]

I should say the perception of not giving a shit, from my perspective. In that the conference seemed either unprepared (long winded, poor explained Nintendo Land demonstration), or the company uninterested in selling their product as something very new and unique. Lot's of 'safe' games shown, ports, and a general sense of treading water versus making a big deal of everything.

And again, this perception is due to the way Nintendo had beautifully handled past console reveals. Both the pre-launch E3's for the Wii and 3DS were quite wonderful and a showed a big investment from Nintendo. E3 2012 lacked this, I felt.

There was also the issue of them near totally rehashing everything they had covered in the Nintendo Direct from the Sunday before - which was held, by their own admission, so they could get the technical bits out of the way and focus solely on games at their hour-long conference.

If there was any one thing about Nintendo's conference that screamed "We thought this shit up in the car on the way here," it was that.

 

[DynamicG]

All they had to say right at the end when Reggie came out for the final time was 'here is what our first party developers are working on for the future' and shown even 60 seconds with flashes of all their massive IP's running on the new HD hardware and people would have been floored.

It really isn't rocket science to get gamers hyped, esp Nintendo fans, look at the reaction a 20 second Zelda HD tech demo got, people talked about that for a whole year.

Again I won't disagree with you. I think that would have been smart and I would have really enjoyed that. They could have done it, but they didn't.

I agree that its not hard to get Nintendo fans excited, but have you noticed the diversity in gamers that exists over in the gaming side of Gaf? Sure there are some vocal minorities and majorities, but gamers are fairly diverse lot. Most folks there weren't super hyped about a 720p Zelda demo that wasn't even really playable. I thought it looked great and it got me, as a nintendo fan, really hyped but I'm just a tiny fraction of the base they sold the Wii to.

But gamers are diverse and demanding lot. I think Nintendo tried to cast the net too wide and as a result watered down everything. They tried to please a disparate group of gamers all at the same time and the result was a "meh' presentation.

There was also the issue of them near totally rehashing everything they had covered in the Nintendo Direct from the Sunday before - which was held, by their own admission, so they could get the technical bits out of the way and focus solely on games at their hour-long conference.

If there was any one thing about Nintendo's conference that screamed "We thought this shit up in the car on the way here," it was that.

I found this baffling as well. If only Reggie was as honest in interviews as Iwata, then we may actually get an explanation for some of this stuff. Instead he'll just be a defensive ass.

 

[Spieler Eins]

So have you had this reaction to a Nintendo event ever before? I've had so many disappointing Nintendo e3's that it doesn't bother me anymore.

There's been some horrid E3s, but really this was probably the worst of them all since it was the introduction of their new console... After they already had a teaser last year, which was actually more exciting than this.
Nothing about the WiiU feels like the next generation of Nintendo has arrived. At all. And the whole showing with last year still in mind makes me wonder if they are completely overwhelmed by HD development. Even when the Wii couldn't trump with graphics, they did an amazing job showing off the new controller, which made the Wii feel truly like the next step. Unlike the tablet.
Regardless of whether or not they are saving big announcements for a later moment (which I highly doubt at this point), focusing on lauch window is simply idiotic. You need to go full out for your new console to generate hype and sell this thing. Give possible launch buyers confidence that there's a bright future. I was a huge Wii ,,defender'', hoping with their new console they'd finally shake up the HD landscape that consists of generic ,,cinematic experiences'' right now, but they literally pulled off the worst case scenario (nothing new was shown, the games that were there were nice at best, no system sellers) and I'm not even sure I want to get the console anytime soon.

 

[EatChildren]

I think it's spurious to automatically correlate a presentation with the amount of effort put into it. Launching a a product and gaining public perception is much harder than merely trying, no matter how effortless they have made it look in the past.

I don't actually believe Nintendo didn't give a shit, just that it was the impression they gave to a lot of people. I'm sure Nintendo thought they were doing a great job.

As for the 3DS/Wii showings, it was more than easy demonstration. They had a greater quantity of original content on show, tech demos, teasers and more. That's what I liked. E3 2012 was very much Nintendo playing their cards close to their chest. I know they like to do the whole "we'll announce a game then release it shortly after" thing, but I don't feel a new hardware reveal is the time for that.

There was also the issue of them near totally rehashing everything they had covered in the Nintendo Direct from the Sunday before - which was held, by their own admission, so they could get the technical bits out of the way and focus solely on games at their hour-long conference.

If there was any one thing about Nintendo's conference that screamed "We thought this shit up in the car on the way here," it was that.

Yeah, this too.

 

[Apophis2036]

What does core game mean? Hardcore?

What is a hardcore game?

Is CoD casual by your definition, because it sells far more than say, Half-life?

EDIT: While we're at it, what's a casual gamer? Someone who doesn't play many games, or someone who doesn't play often?

I think these labels started getting thrown around a lot more once the Wii was released and then PS Move and Kinect.

Before that Hardcore gamers were simply gamers who played games a lot more than casual gamers.

Nowadays casual games to me are games that are designed to be marketed towards families, young kids (under 13), and gamers who weren't gamers before the whole mass market revolution that the original Wii brought about and won't play any more than say 30 mins - 1 hour at a time.

Hardcore or Core games are games that are designed for older people that put a lot more time into their experience, who enjoy difficult games with real depth and will easily play a game for 3-4 hours at a time.

I could be and am most probably wrong but that is only my view, like many people say there is no hardcore or casual, games are what you make of them but if someone shows me Uncharted 4 next to Nintendo Land then i know which game i would label casual and which one i would label hardcore.

 

[TunaLover]

I should say the perception of not giving a shit, from my perspective. In that the conference seemed either unprepared (long winded, poor explained Nintendo Land demonstration), or the company uninterested in selling their product as something very new and unique. Lot's of 'safe' games shown, ports, and a general sense of treading water versus making a big deal of everything.

And again, this perception is due to the way Nintendo had beautifully handled past console reveals. Both the pre-launch E3's for the Wii and 3DS were quite wonderful and a showed a big investment from Nintendo. E3 2012 lacked this, I felt.

I felt the same way, it was almost like Nintendo feels apathy to the system, I don't know. I want to think that the company was really shaken by initial problems with 3DS, and they had to switch alot Wii U effort to 3DS, I can't think in other reason why the presentation was so lacking.

 

[axisofweevils]

I subscribe to ONM, but haven't received my copy yet.
I'll let you know when I get it.

 

[Earendil]

Kinda crummy Fifa news if true: "For the first time since the GameCube, EA Sports is delivering a soccer game to a Nintendo console based on its current rendering and physics engine. Though the game is more tied to FIFA 12 than the Xbox 360 and PS3 versions of FIFA 13 (you won’t find first-touch controls or curving runs here), Nintendo fans still have a deep gameplay experience to enjoy with either the new GamePad or a classic controller. "

Source: GameInformer article

smh if this is true...

 

[Apophis2036]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=40543837#post40543837

For anyone that missed it -

'Rumor – leaked GameStop listing confirms Wii U launch titles'

 

[tkscz]

...

This is pretty much how I felt about all, but Ubi's conference at E3. No one gave a shit this year. This was meant to be the year that would sell me on a Vita, but Sony didn't even show shit. I even saw how desperate Sony fans truly are when someone posted a Vita reel that Sony didn't even show on stage and the reel didn't show any new games, just some clips of old ones (really was a pathetic sight).

Microsoft made me fear what they're doing with the 720 if the 360 has become basically a cable box for them. Seriously, the hell is with all that add space, TV spots, and media shit. I bought a 360 for games. This makes me think that 6 out of the 8 gigs of RAM for the 720 won't be usable for games, but for multimedia apps.

I have such low hopes for next gen. Low low hopes.

 

[Spieler Eins]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=40543837#post40543837

For anyone that missed it -

'Rumor – leaked GameStop listing confirms Wii U launch titles'

They just copied the E3 list.

 

[IlSignorCornetto]

Kinda crummy Fifa news if true: "For the first time since the GameCube, EA Sports is delivering a soccer game to a Nintendo console based on its current rendering and physics engine. Though the game is more tied to FIFA 12 than the Xbox 360 and PS3 versions of FIFA 13 (you won’t find first-touch controls or curving runs here), Nintendo fans still have a deep gameplay experience to enjoy with either the new GamePad or a classic controller. "

Source: GameInformer article

totally nonsense woooohoooo

 

[Apophis2036]

They just copied the E3 list.

Ah ok.

Im really praying Pikmin 3 is a launch game, will at least give me one excuse to buy the console at launch .

 

[GameE]

Ah ok.

Im really praying Pikmin 3 is a launch game, will at least give me one excuse to buy the console at launch .

It wont be a launch game.

 

[Spieler Eins]

I felt the same way, it was almost like Nintendo feels apathy to the system, I don't know. I want to think that the company was really shaken by initial problems with 3DS, and they had to switch alot Wii U effort to 3DS, I can't think in other reason why the presentation was so lacking.

The whole concept feels so crude. There was nothing that makes you feel that the new controller was truly necessary and the way some of the games use it pale in comparison to the Wiimote.
The whole asymetric gameplay thing makes it even more awkward. So, the new pad is supposed to be the main controller and attraction and yet all you do with it in Rayman and especially in Mario is inferior tasks (tapping to create platforms... seriously?), while others play the main game with Wiimotes.
Other than that, their showcase ,,core'' game made inhouse (Pikmin) still keeps Wiimote controls and just like Mario, it doesn't give you the feeling that they are introducing Nintendos next generation with these (since they aren't exactly graphical showcases either)

 

[Fourth Storm]

It wont be a launch game.

I agree. Besides the clear indication on the release list as a "launch window" vs "holiday" title, Nintendo probably fears that some core gamers will pass on NSMBU if Pikmin 3 is also available same day and date (or vice versa). They'd rather you not have to choose between two Miyamoto-style games.

The whole concept feels so crude. There was nothing that makes you feel that the new controller was truly necessary and the way some of the games use it pale in comparison to the Wiimote.
The whole asymetric gameplay thing makes it even more awkward. So, the new pad is supposed to be the main controller and attraction and yet all you do with it in Rayman and especially in Mario is inferior tasks (tapping to create platforms... seriously?), while others play the main game with Wiimotes.
Other than that, their showcase ,,core'' game made inhouse (Pikmin) still keeps Wiimote controls and just like Mario, it doesn't give you the feeling that they are introducing Nintendos next generation with these (since they aren't exactly graphical showcases either)

They could have saved some face re: controller value by showing games being fully playable on it. As of now, I'm under the impression this feature, which was highly touted in the build up to reveal, will be reserved for a very small percentage of software. Annoying if true, because you're right, they haven't shown much to justify the touch screen as an essential supplement to classic controls.

 

[BD1]

Nintendo should have been ashamed at their E3'12 conference. After literally a year of "wait until E3" and building hype to impossible levels (intentional or not), they deserved the backlash they got.

That being said, the launch line up is actually pretty good and no one should completely write off Wii U because of a bad conference. But they really need to get over themselves and starting sharing information.

 

[royalan]

The whole concept feels so crude. There was nothing that makes you feel that the new controller was truly necessary and the way some of the games use it pale in comparison to the Wiimote.
The whole asymetric gameplay thing makes it even more awkward. So, the new pad is supposed to be the main controller and attraction and yet all you do with it in Rayman and especially in Mario is inferior tasks (tapping to create platforms... seriously?), while others play the main game with Wiimotes.
Other than that, their showcase ,,core'' game made inhouse (Pikmin) still keeps Wiimote controls and just like Mario, it doesn't give you the feeling that they are introducing Nintendos next generation with these (since they aren't exactly graphical showcases either)

I agree.

Overall, with the Wii U it seems like Nintendo was trying to combine the success of the Wii with the success of the original DS, with very little thought as to what really made those platforms popular and how the market has changed since (at least in the US - freeing up the TV might be a real issue in Japan, but it's a pretty insignificant problem here).

 

[fabricated backlash]

I like how because Nintendo had two awful E3's in a row, suddenly E3 doesn't matter anymore.

People are right when they say that neither Sony or Microsoft's conferences blew anyone away this year but for every Wonderbook there was a God of War Ascension, Last of Us and Beyond and for every Kinect kids game or multi media announcement there was Halo 4, Gears of War: Judgement and Forza Horizon and both had every major third party release.

Their below par performance also has a lot to do with the fact that a lot of their first party studios are now working on PS4 / 720 games.

If they don't show their new consoles off at Apple like events so that they have 100% of peoples attention then you can bet they will blow people away at E3 2013 with gamplay from Gears 4 running on UE4 and Uncharted 4 pushing PS4 to it's limits.

Let's get this straight, I don't post in this thread to troll or argue, I'm a massive Nintendo fan, i have owned every system they have ever released and have been playing their games for over 20 years, they are also by far my favourite first party company but what i saw at the past two E3's is *in my opinion* an embarrassment.

You can sugar coat it how ever you like by saying NSMB and Nintendo Land are core games (which they are not), Pikmin 3 is there and it has a new IP in ZombiU but the whole presentation just did nothing for me, hell their E3 2011 showing was more exciting.

The fact that the console is not a powerhouse (those Fifa in game shots look almost identical to the PS360 version, the tablet view looks like the PS Vita Fifa engine aswell), isn't the reason that E3 bothered me, it was being lied to the E3 before with this whole we are coming after the core consumer again and showing impressive 'next gen' tech demos.

E3 2012 was their chance to really show something off that blew anything on PS360 away, something that looked like the Zelda or Bird tech demos from the previous E3 and what did we get ?, Nintendo Land which again *imo* looks to be a Mario Party rip off at best which requires you to have 4 Wii motes to get the most out of it, Pikmin 3 which out of their big 8 Triple A IP's is probably the weakest in terms of sales and 'buzz' (it was also a Wii game upgraded and came no where near those two tech demos), ZombiU looks ok, nothing great to me, yet another FPS of which there are at least four i can think of i would rather play this holiday season.

Then there was all the extreme casual / shovelware (Just Dance 4, Wii Fit U, Sing) and ports of games which will be months (some almost a year old) by the time the system launches (Batman, ME3, NG 3 ect).

I understand my posts come across as extremely negative but i can't help the way i feel, until this console shows a big first party game running in real time that even resembles those E3 2011 tech demos, it is to me just a slightly more powerful 360 and not capable of producing the biggest impressive graphical PS3 games (Uncharted, God of War, Heavy Rain ect).

The good points i took from E3 2012 was AC3 being available at launch, the change to the tablet pad to include proper analogue sticks and the core controller.

Has any more info leaked about the core controller having analogue triggers yet?, if it doesn't it completely ruins it tbh.

Sorry for the long reply but i just want to make people aware im not a 'troll' as i posted a lot of negative posts yesterday.

Your whole argument stands and falls with the definition of core games.

And I happen to absolutely disagree with your definition. The second games like NSMB isn't a core game anymore, then I guess we can just randomly asign the term to make every single opinion into more than it is.

The way you jump to conclusions that the WiiU isn't able to produce graphics like Uncharted, God of War, Heavy Rain etc doesn't help your argument either as it merely makes it sound that you're sad that they didn't show any project that has 100 million dollar budget and focuses on graphical prowess and presentation.

Would I've liked it to see Retro show it's new project? Definetly, but Nintendo has been following it's strategy of revealing projects at max a year ahead for several years now.
How people started to believe that they would suddenly change that now is beyond me. Because they showed 3DS games that aren't still available? I would bet money that they thought they were able to ship Paper Mario and Animal Crossing allready.

Don't get me wrong, I also missed graphical showcases for the WiiU, but I honestly have gotten beyond the point where graphics matter to me. As long as the game has a cohesive style and clever texturework, I value the gameplay more than anything else.

After playing COD and Goldeneye on Wii, I simply wasn't able to go back to playing FPS games on Dual Analog Setups (save for Halo). Even with the horrible graphics in Cod on Wii, I would still prefer that version over all the eyecandy.

 

[Fourth Storm]

I agree.

Overall, with the Wii U it seems like Nintendo was trying to combine the success of the Wii with the success of the original DS, with very little thought as to what really made those platforms popular and how the market has changed since (at least in the US - freeing up the TV might be a real issue in Japan, but it's a pretty insignificant problem here).

I disagree. Besides the more intimate experience of handheld-style play, having a game fully playable on the controller does break down a mental barrier in the minds of some gamers, I'm sure. I would be one of them. For instance, if I want to squeeze in a few minutes of gaming before bed, I'm much more inclined to bust out the DS than to switch on the tv, adjust volume, switch inputs, etc. Yeah, I know that only takes a sec, but it's the mental barrier, like staring at a blank page before writing up a report or something.

I'd also bet the majority of consumers have their best TV/surround sound in the living room, and most gamers I know prefer their consoles hooked up to the best shit they've got. Even if you have a nice one in the bedroom as well, unless you buy multiple systems, it requires unhooking the console and setting it up again depending on the situation. It's a hassle.

 

[EatChildren]

Nintendo's ridiculously wide launch window is concerning, but all I really want at launch is P-100. Zombi U will be there, so yay, but from Nintendo P-100 is the one I really want. Pikmin 3 would be nice too, but I can wait if I have to pick between the two.

 

[Spieler Eins]

They could have saved some face re: controller value by showing games being fully playable on it. As of now, I'm under the impression this feature, which was highly touted in the build up to reveal, will be reserved for a very small percentage of software. Annoying if true, because you're right, they haven't shown much to justify the touch screen as an essential supplement to classic controls.

I was also thinking about that after I've posted. I tend to forget about that since they hardly talked about it at this year (or at all?), which isn't a good sign. Neither is Iwatas quote that it's up to the developers to implent it. Which is what Nintendo usually also says about their peripherals and whatnot, which end up with a handful of ambitious developers that use it in the very first year, while it is completely dropped by everyone else.

Nintendo's ridiculously wide launch window is concerning, but all I really want at launch is P-100. Zombi U will be there, so yay, but from Nintendo P-100 is the one I really want. Pikmin 3 would be nice too, but I can wait if I have to pick between the two.

My mind might be a bit blurred, but it felt like Reggie and others were still talking about launch window like 6 months into the 3DS life. Which is why I fear that the supposed 2013 games for WiiU might actually be the E3 titles again, just spread deep into the next year, maybe even until E3 2013.

 

[royalan]

I disagree. Besides the more intimate experience of handheld-style play, having a game fully playable on the controller does break down a mental barrier in the minds of some gamers, I'm sure. I would be one of them. For instance, if I want to squeeze in a few minutes of gaming before bed, I'm much more inclined to bust out the DS than to switch on the tv, adjust volume, switch inputs, etc. Yeah, I know that only takes a sec, but it's the mental barrier, like staring at a blank page before writing up a report or something.

The problem with this is that if any games make use of the secondary screen then they won't be able to be played on the controller in their complete form. The two unique applications of the controller near-completely cancel each other out when it comes to application in actual games.

Besides, I'd bet the majority of consumers have their best TV/surround sound in the living room, and most gamers I know prefer their consoles hooked up to the best shit they've got. Even if you have a nice one in the bedroom as well, unless you buy multiple systems, it requires unhooking the console and setting it up again depending on the situation. It's a hassle.

See above.

 

[GameplayWhore]

I would say the NSMB games are aimed more at the casual, kid, family audience and the 3D Mario games (Mario 64, Sunshine, Galaxy 1 & 2) are aimed at more of the core, older gamers.

Children and teen-agers form a massive portion of the core demographic of the video game industry. Labeling any game that appeals to younger people as "casual" is phenomenally disingenuous.



BTW, sorry about not responding to your serious response to my snarky "Gamecube Strategy" comment last night. So here it is: Frankly, I think they could have eked out a higher performance profile without sacrificing very much cost, even while keeping the features the system currently has. Nonetheless, I'm pretty stubborn in my belief that they would sell far fewer systems if they merely had a Gamecube equivalent (fast hardware, nothing else different from prior generations). The notable success stories of the gaming world have generally had notably novel features compared to prior systems. Xbox 360 gained ground not because of its pixel pushing abilities but because it introduced a theretofore unparalleled approach to centralised online gaming. PS2 and PS1 was ridiculously popular in part because it gave consumers media playing capabilities which were in very high demand at the time. Lacking a feature to which you can point to and say "This is what you're getting that you never got before" is a dead-end to most consumers, and more polygons just aren't that critically important to most.

Nonetheless, I will concede that making a system into an Xbox 360 clone save for dramatically higher performance might have given Nintendo a higher degree of third party support, which is the sort of thing that can help with long-tail sales.

 

[stupidvillager]

I think these labels started getting thrown around a lot more once the Wii was released and then PS Move and Kinect.

Before that Hardcore gamers were simply gamers who played games a lot more than casual gamers.

Nowadays casual games to me are games that are designed to be marketed towards families, young kids (under 13), and gamers who weren't gamers before the whole mass market revolution that the original Wii brought about and won't play any more than say 30 mins - 1 hour at a time.

Hardcore or Core games are games that are designed for older people that put a lot more time into their experience, who enjoy difficult games with real depth and will easily play a game for 3-4 hours at a time.

I could be and am most probably wrong but that is only my view, like many people say there is no hardcore or casual, games are what you make of them but if someone shows me Uncharted 4 next to Nintendo Land then i know which game i would label casual and which one i would label hardcore.

I think the labels mean nothing. I could play MarioKart or Zelda for hours at a time or I could play Halo or CoD for hours at a time or "I could play any of them for less than an hour. So am I a casual gamer because I play CoD for 30 min even though its a "hardcore" game or am I a hardcore gamer because I play MarioKart for 3 hours. Or...am I a hardcore/core gamer because I will play anything for any length of time.

 

[Pseudo_Sam]

Nintendo's ridiculously wide launch window is concerning, but all I really want at launch is P-100. Zombi U will be there, so yay, but from Nintendo P-100 is the one I really want. Pikmin 3 would be nice too, but I can wait if I have to pick between the two.

Pikmin 3 is a $350 value game for me. Nothing else in the launch window even comes close.

 

[Fourth Storm]

The problem with this is that if any games make use of the secondary screen then they won't be able to be played on the controller in their complete form. The two unique applications of the controller near-completely cancel each other out when it comes to application in actual games.



See above.

I wouldn't say they cancel each other out. Rather, they are two independent options for developers to choose from. In the absence of any groundbreaking uses of the second screen, why shouldn't developers make their game entirely playable on the Gamepad? For ports and such, I see this as a noteworthy feature. I'd much rather be able to play the next CoD portable-style than to have a map or weapon select on the touch screen (actually, I'd rather not play the next CoD at all, but that's besides the point). For those games which do use the Gamepad as an essential element of the experience, bravo, but I never want to see that second screen go wasted. We're paying too much for it, both out of pocket and out of the system's potential technical specs had they not included it.

 

[Anth0ny]

Kinda crummy Fifa news if true: "For the first time since the GameCube, EA Sports is delivering a soccer game to a Nintendo console based on its current rendering and physics engine. Though the game is more tied to FIFA 12 than the Xbox 360 and PS3 versions of FIFA 13 (you won’t find first-touch controls or curving runs here), Nintendo fans still have a deep gameplay experience to enjoy with either the new GamePad or a classic controller. "

Source: GameInformer article

you guys still think Wii U will get legitimate third party support? it can't even get proper support during the ps3/360's lifetime, what's gonna happen when ps4/720 drop?

 

[Lyude77]

Kinda crummy Fifa news if true: "For the first time since the GameCube, EA Sports is delivering a soccer game to a Nintendo console based on its current rendering and physics engine. Though the game is more tied to FIFA 12 than the Xbox 360 and PS3 versions of FIFA 13 (you won’t find first-touch controls or curving runs here), Nintendo fans still have a deep gameplay experience to enjoy with either the new GamePad or a classic controller. "

Source: GameInformer article

See, this is why I was nervous about NBA 2k13 being bad. Luckily, 2k isn't EA.

At least it isn't that travesty that NCAA/Madden 07 were though. I'd prefer for it to be based on an older engine game vs. having Manager Mode and My Player removed/the game feeling awful.

Heck, I may go for Pro Evo if Konami makes it well. It's a shame - I already know how to play FIFA, and that took forever to learn, so I bet Pro Evo will take me longer.

 

[Dreamwriter]

you guys still think Wii U will get legitimate third party support? it can't even get proper support during the ps3/360's lifetime, what's gonna happen when ps4/720 drop?

It's launching with a number of big third-party titles, so why wouldn't they continue that? The Wii U is not the Wii, it's not a totally different development environment thus making it uber-expensive to port games to.

 

[Anth0ny]

It's launching with a number of big third-party titles, so why wouldn't they continue that? The Wii U is not the Wii, it's not a totally different development environment thus making it uber-expensive to port games to.

Don't ask me, ask EA.

 

[GameplayWhore]

It's launching with a number of big third-party titles, so why wouldn't they continue that? The Wii U is not the Wii, it's not a totally different development environment thus making it uber-expensive to port games to.

A lot of developers are launching with a number of big third-party titles. It's just that in most cases, the number is "zero".

>_>

 

[Donnie]

you guys still think Wii U will get legitimate third party support? it can't even get proper support during the ps3/360's lifetime, what's gonna happen when ps4/720 drop?

What is "proper support" then?, is that defined as exacty the same as everyone else? Obvious EA want to put out a different experience on WiiU. You can disagree with them, and maybe I will if I ever try the game (I usually just get my FIFA games on PC). However its a little silly to claim this isn't a "proper" version of the game because they're trying to make it unique.

 

[Fourth Storm]

A lot of developers are launching with a number of big third-party titles. It's just that in most cases, the number is "zero".

>_>

Oh man, you're jaded...and I love it! haha

 

[Donnie]

I realy hope this isnt true. But wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't [Edit: was!]

Surely it would be making it more complicated to switch back to the old game engine that develope the game side by side with the current engine?

Also, what happened to the "Wi U is best looking version of FIFA 13" part? This makes no sense

The link doesn't say they're using the old engine. It says they're using the new engine (which is backed up by the comments that the WiiU version will look best out of all console version as you said). But that some of the new FIFA13 features on 360/PS3 aren't being added. I'd imagine that's because those features don't work with the unique way the games going to be played on WiiU. The same article talks about heavy use of the touch screen and less reliance on buttons ans sticks.

Personally I don't like the sound of it, but the reviews of the final game will tell all.

 

[Apophis2036]

Your whole argument stands and falls with the definition of core games.

And I happen to absolutely disagree with your definition. The second games like NSMB isn't a core game anymore, then I guess we can just randomly asign the term to make every single opinion into more than it is.

The way you jump to conclusions that the WiiU isn't able to produce graphics like Uncharted, God of War, Heavy Rain etc doesn't help your argument either as it merely makes it sound that you're sad that they didn't show any project that has 100 million dollar budget and focuses on graphical prowess and presentation.

Would I've liked it to see Retro show it's new project? Definetly, but Nintendo has been following it's strategy of revealing projects at max a year ahead for several years now.
How people started to believe that they would suddenly change that now is beyond me. Because they showed 3DS games that aren't still available? I would bet money that they thought they were able to ship Paper Mario and Animal Crossing allready.

Don't get me wrong, I also missed graphical showcases for the WiiU, but I honestly have gotten beyond the point where graphics matter to me. As long as the game has a cohesive style and clever texturework, I value the gameplay more than anything else.

After playing COD and Goldeneye on Wii, I simply wasn't able to go back to playing FPS games on Dual Analog Setups (save for Halo). Even with the horrible graphics in Cod on Wii, I would still prefer that version over all the eyecandy.

The thing is i have already said the graphics or hardware power is not what annoyed me at E3, it was the lineup of games, there were far more family / Wii type games on show and not enough SNES / N64 / Gamecube like games on show like Pikmin 3.

I think the WUST's are partly to blame, the anticipation that was built over the second half of 2011 and the first half of 2012 was unreal, i wonder if Nintendo knew about them ?, what did they end up with in the end combined posts / views, i doubt many threads regarding video games have come close.

It just shows the passion we have for the company, it's also maybe something to do with age, if i had been in my teens when the Wii was out then it would be the norm to see the Wii U but i was 14 when the N64 launched, the N64 and Gamecube have for me yet to be bettered by any console bar maybe PS1, those are unreal high standards for any company to meet, im maybe unfair in what i expect.

In terms of me wanting Nintendo to spend $100 million on game development then i think even you have to admit that is beyond ridiculous, only a select few games this generation costs anywhere near that amount (GTA 4 for one), apart from Zelda and Metroid (if its a realistic 3D FPS again) then Nintendo could easily make versions of 3D Mario, F Zero, Starfox, Smash Bros, Mario Kart for way, way under $100 million considering games like Uncharted 2 cost $20 million to develop.

 

[Fourth Storm]

Frankly, I think they could have eked out a higher performance profile without sacrificing very much cost, even while keeping the features the system currently has. Nonetheless, I'm pretty stubborn in my belief that they would sell far fewer systems if they merely had a Gamecube equivalent (fast hardware, nothing else different from prior generations). The notable success stories of the gaming world have generally had notably novel features compared to prior systems. Xbox 360 gained ground not because of its pixel pushing abilities but because it introduced a theretofore unparalleled approach to centralised online gaming. PS2 and PS1 was ridiculously popular in part because it gave consumers media playing capabilities which were in very high demand at the time. Lacking a feature to which you can point to and say "This is what you're getting that you never got before" is a dead-end to most consumers, and more polygons just aren't that critically important to most.

Nonetheless, I will concede that making a system into an Xbox 360 clone save for dramatically higher performance might have given Nintendo a higher degree of third party support, which is the sort of thing that can help with long-tail sales.

I agree with what you're saying, except that it wouldn't have just been an Xbox 360 clone because, hypothetically speaking, they still would have had the Wii Remote and that's huge! The Wii Remote (esp w/ motion plus) is a great friggin controller! I'd go so far as to say it's the utter perfection of what they were trying to accomplish - screw the nonsense people spout about adding more face buttons and whatnot. If Nintendo had delivered a more powerful Wii U sans Gamepad but with a slightly improved Wii Remote and perhaps a proper camera, I truly believe the thing would sell like gangbusters.

 

[ugoo18]

Depends on if the Retro game was any good or not. Maybe Retro's game was another minigame collection, and it was decided to not show off two of them in the same show.

 

[Skiesofwonder]

Madden WiiU better fricken have two Upad support, and online dynasty. I don't care if it takes you until August 2013 to get it right EA, I'll wait. I don't need a shitty, thrown together Madden for launch. And give me NCAA Football 2014 next year please.

 

[Aostia]

I don't understand the reaction to fifa statement. also fifa13 is based on the hard work done with fifa12: one team is adding new phisics features ans the curve run, while the wiiu one is really focused on the new implementation of the gamepad

each version will offer its own addition to the previous entry

and graphicall their already said that wiiu version will be on par with ps360 one, with slight improvments. it's not that the game is stuck at fifa12 levels...


instead, the announcment of army of two just for ps360 is depressing in terms of general support...

 

[GameplayWhore]

Oh man, you're jaded...and I love it! haha

I am pretty downed by the last holdout of reasonable pricing in the console market totally giving in. My clicky finger is itchy and positioned over the Ouya button at all times.

Spoiler

Yeah, I had an Ouya button installed on my keyboard, what of it?

 

[Anth0ny]

What is "proper support" then?, is that defined as exacty the same as everyone else? Obvious EA want to put out a different experience on WiiU. You can disagree with them, and maybe I will if I ever try the game (I usually just get my FIFA games on PC). However its a little silly to claim this isn't a "proper" version of the game because they're trying to make it unique.

Then I guess they had proper support this gen too! Wii got FIFA, it was was just a "different experience"!

The Wii U version of FIFA 13 is "more tied to" FIFA 12. The PS360 versions aren't. That's dumb. I'm not buying the Nintendo version for touch controls.

 

[Apophis2036]

I was also thinking about that after I've posted. I tend to forget about that since they hardly talked about it at this year (or at all?), which isn't a good sign. Neither is Iwatas quote that it's up to the developers to implent it. Which is what Nintendo usually also says about their peripherals and whatnot, which end up with a handful of ambitious developers that use it in the very first year, while it is completely dropped by everyone else.


My mind might be a bit blurred, but it felt like Reggie and others were still talking about launch window like 6 months into the 3DS life. Which is why I fear that the supposed 2013 games for WiiU might actually be the E3 titles again, just spread deep into the next year, maybe even until E3 2013.

I had never heard the Iwata quote about developers having to implement 'off screen' play, i thought it would be hard coded into every single Wii U game like Achievements are for the 360, i thought it was it's main selling point tbh.

Reggie said in an interview with GTTV right after E3 that the 'launch window' was upto four months after the console launches, thats why i have been saying the line up of games may look impressive but lets wait until we have release dates as Pikmin 3 and P-100 could be out in Feb or March 2013 if they are indeed launch window games.

 

[Skiesofwonder]

Then I guess they had proper support this gen too! Wii got FIFA, it was was just a "different experience"!

The Wii U version of FIFA 13 is "more tied to" FIFA 12. The PS360 versions aren't. That's dumb. I'm not buying the Nintendo version for touch controls.

If the actual gameplay is better with touch controls, then you should. Add all the bells and whistles you want, but Fifa Vita is still a more genuine, better soccer experience then any of the console versions (outside of PES for Wii), and that's all that really matters.