Smiles and Cries
Member
has anyone questioned if one or more territories will slip into 2013 for launch?
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Wii U Community Thread
- Thread starter Metroid Hunter
- Start date
- Status
I hope they think about clock unlock later, it may just be possible, the noise of the cooling is the least of problems.
WiiU controller could be an explosion being used for innovation in stuff like FPS and JPRG as you can see, obviously FPS used in the WiiU Zapper method which includes Wii remotes. Mainstream people don't see this controller actually is great, and with zero latency problems this is going to be a win for 3rd parties looking to do some custom stuff on there for example I hope Carmack does something cool and new with it.
For anyone interested in scanning for some potential WiiU stuff or just laughing: Michael Pachter along with annoying media dude Geoff Keighley will be talking here in just 15 minutes http://www.own3d.tv/QuakeCon/live/95671
that image
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtoJg3hbyTo
WiiU controller could be an explosion being used for innovation in stuff like FPS and JPRG as you can see, obviously FPS used in the WiiU Zapper method which includes Wii remotes. Mainstream people don't see this controller actually is great, and with zero latency problems this is going to be a win for 3rd parties looking to do some custom stuff on there for example I hope Carmack does something cool and new with it.
For anyone interested in scanning for some potential WiiU stuff or just laughing: Michael Pachter along with annoying media dude Geoff Keighley will be talking here in just 15 minutes http://www.own3d.tv/QuakeCon/live/95671
...and they fell for it.
that image
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtoJg3hbyTo
If the Nintendo Direct this month is about the 3DS I will get so mad, I'm done with the 3DS focus this past year, I want Wii U news because I already have a 3DS I love it sure but I done with the 3DS focus, I want a Wii U focus before the Fall Conference so we can have 2 and Nintendo said "2012 is the year of the Wii U" well right now it seems like they want focus on the 3DS so much and I'm tired of it....I just want Wii U news
.The funny thing is the Tekken Producer said a few days after that his comment was twisted around.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
They should be aiming for a wordwide launch unless japan is releasing in october. Which na and eu launch in the first week of november. I cant see the missing all those november games when they launch.
What Stream?.
All I'm seeing is Michal Pachter, Geoff Keighley and other guys talking about gaming...I'll watch.
It was nice to hear most people in the audience where bored of Military Shooters.
Because random people on the Internet make up a rumor and claim to "know a guy" and people take it as fact.
I can do it too.
A girl I know works at Ubisoft Toronto just around the corner from my house. I asked her if she has a Wii U dev kit and what she thinks of it. She told me "it's got an impressive GPU and has way more RAM than the 360 and PS3" I asked her if the CPU was weak and she said "I wouldn't say weaker, it's different. The programmers need to code a little differently for it because of the way it handles processes so it's kinda more of a pain if we want to directly port our PS360 games over. But if the effort is put in, it could be ported. Just look at Assassins Creed III" she said with a smile.
bgassassin
Member
It baffled me too, but I sure wasn't going to complain. All I did was start the first Wii U thread to help clean up the board from all those articles with little, vague info. Then I made some accurate guesses about Wii U's target specs and things opened up from there. That's how I ended up hearing about the PS4 specs last year.
That's why I talk very little about current and most past games.
Rösti;40614878 said:
Yeah if it weren't for you we'd probably still be wondering what role does 1T-SRAM play. But I do know for sure after you found the MoSys info, that eDRAM is playing the 1T-SRAM role.
Still seems like the most likely issue is the CPU doesn't have something akin to SPEs or VMX128.
I don't. It's way too late for that as far as trying different hardware. However I do agree with you about how they are targeting the power, though I would say it in different words. There was the extended tweaking phase the last kits saw. They originally came out in January and didn't go out to all devs till May. I think if anything they set their minimum, it wasn't enough for other companies, and had to make tweaks to raise the level to "just enough".
Fourth Storm
Member
I believe the hardware has been pretty much set for a while now. The only thing they may have still been playing around with post E3 is clock speeds. Maybe some custom CPU instructions and whatnot, but that sounds more like software changes to me.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6007/...cortexa5-processor-for-trustzone-capabilities
Have we discussed this before? The Cortex-A5 seems to be a likely candidate for "Starlet 2." It's more capable than ARM's classic line and "provided a high-value migration path for existing ARM 926EJ-S...processor designs." Perhaps AMD added this to the WiiU GPU and liked the results so much that they chose to include it on their future hardware designs. *shrugs*
Edit: Actually, I don't even really think they've been playing w/ clock speeds. We've heard in that Kotaku article that Nintendo refuses to clock the CPU higher, presumably for heat reasons, which makes it sound like it's stayed the same in recent months.
I sent you that message a while back, and then actually communicated w/ Blu regarding it. He made me aware of some of Flipper's features, and basically, I was a bit off base. However, considering the information he gave me concerning the latency of Flipper's texture cache, it seems very likely that the eDRAM is on die and not a separate chip ala Xenos. That's unless IBM pulls a miracle in reducing off-chip latency. That pool of eDRAM could also be great for compute, as I understand it.
I really dislike these unbased comparrisons
There was no WiiU mentioned unfortunately ... id modding panel is next ... the last chance at quakecon to get those freaking mod tools released or we'll probably wait more and more after QC
Rösti;40614878 said:
Perhaps you and others are becoming "tired" because you are actively choosing read articles and discuss the issue on internet forums on a near daily basis. It's like pining after a girl for the entire summer vacation, only able to see her when school starts again.
Apophis2036
Banned
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=395121&page=174
Check the last page of the Dolphin thread, if Metroid Prime looks that good just upscaled to HD, then it should be unreal built from the ground up on Wii U !.
Check the last page of the Dolphin thread, if Metroid Prime looks that good just upscaled to HD, then it should be unreal built from the ground up on Wii U
!.Fourth Storm
Member
Ha! Well give us a break! As Nintendo fans we've had little to appreciate as far as console output is concerned. Maybe if I had a 3DS I'd be a bit more content w/ my gaming life.
There's nothing wrong with anticipation and interest. I'm interested also. I want to know more about the Nintendo Network and online capabilities. I want to know the specs too and future games and what's in the pipeline, and Retro studios, etc...., but it's just a little weird to hear people blaming Nintendo for a little anxiety that they themselves are partly responsible for creating.
MadeInBeats
Banned
They made Pachter answer why he said Boarderlands would flop, live on stage... it was awkward lol. Honestly, the guy is just a comedy character.
I didn't think we where going to get Wii U news, is it possible we will get Wii U news at Quakecon?.
Fourth Storm
Member
If anything, this thread has been more like a game itself. Frustrating at times and somehow fulfilling at others...
And here's my own little rant of the moment: What is up with Nintendo's moneyhatting capabilities these days? It's like alliances are built merely from personal acquaintances and not for any sake of strategic maneuverability. We get a Tekken game w/ mushroom items rather than the next Castlevania. Castlevania games were always on Nintendo systems! Then there's Ninja Gaiden 3, whose name has been run through the muck even if they do improve it somewhat. Nintendo are gonna be losing money on that one likely enough. Who knows what the deal was for that game. They've got this fabled "war chest" that they sit on while refusing to dip into it for key titles that would create an opportunity for growth in those series/genres. Iwata is being very cautious, with current stocks on his mind undoubtedly, likely because he thinks he can keep the tent up and then some on Mario alone. They're pushing the main 2D Mario games early with the understanding that they'll sell consistently over the years (with DLC possibly providing even more revenue). I don't' know, I just hope it works so that in a couple years they can cool down a little and start thinking a bit more aggressively and creatively.
I hope so too, but I'm not even waiting that long. Nintendo is telling the world they are going to amaze all the gamers (casual to hardcore and in between). So if they don't do that between launch and and holiday, I'm going to be pissed.
As a person who only plays games on his Wii and sometimes PC, I'm not interested in waiting any more.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=395121&page=174
Check the last page of the Dolphin thread, if Metroid Prime looks that good just upscaled to HD, then it should be unreal built from the ground up on Wii U
Still til this day I am amazed at what Retro accomplished (even without the dolphin rez bump) on hardware built in the late 90's.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Prime is another series that would likely cost a fortune to make with the graphical standards expected of the Wii U's hardware.
snowdog1971
Banned
I've noticed that for 3DS and Vita review scores that, for some unknown reason, reviewers seem to be knocking 5-10% off the score because it's on a portable console. Just add 5-10% onto every review score and you'll get the NSMB U Metascore when it launches. Very odd though.
Which is why I truly think the next Metroid on Wii-U will be 2D.
Apophis2036
Banned
It was either Iwata or Miyamoto that said they would not hessitate to spend big on certain franchises, i would assume they mean Zelda, Metroid, 3D Mario and whatever Retro are making if they arent making Prime 4.
I would think Mario Kart, F Zero, Starfox, Smash Bros, Donkey Kong ect will be far smaller projects, budget wise but hopefully just as good.
I really have a feeling Retro are doing Starfox or Mario Kart if they have not created a whole new IP, they are prob sick of the Metroid games.
bgassassin
Member
It sounds like you are crossing the texture cache with the frame buffer. In Flipper/Hollywood they both consisted of 1T-SRAM, were both on die, and separate. And in Hollywood the main 1T-SRAM from GC had been moved onto the chip with with the GPU. How it sounds with Wii U to me is that the eDRAM will be like Xenos and Hollywood in that it's a separate chip on the module with the GPU. Continuing in my view it won't be like Xenos in that it will not be locked into only being a framebuffer and it won't be like Hollywood as the there won't be an on-die framebuffer. So what will be interesting for me is how the caching is designed in GPU7. Because like I mentioned when we last discussed it, F/H had more TC than cache memory in even modern, high-end GPUs. So I wonder if they took steps to maintain a high amount of cache in GPU7.
Gamescom is only 11 days away.
To be honest, I'm not holding my breath for Metroid.
yes, it's a big franchise, but just because of the name and longevity.
Sales wise it leaves lot to be desired and I'm not sure about Nintendo spending
big cash on a franchises that struggles to hit the million mark.
Hopefully I'm wrong cuz Metroid is one of my favorite franchises.
Iwata specifically said Zelda. Metroid really doesn't sell well enough to put lots of money into it.
MadeInBeats
Banned
I can't even imagine that melt down.
If Retro were wasted on that one-armed bandit on wheels I would happy-slap a jellyfish. I'm not even kidding, I would give up gaming.
Earthbound U. Retro Studios.
DeuceGamer
Member
Does anyone know, or have an educated guess, on the original budget for any of the Prime games? I'm sure it was significantly less than a AAA title for the HD twins, but it would be interesting to compare the budgets of a past Prime game to a Wii U Prime game or a AAA HD twins title.
Why are you giving up on Splinter Cell? It doesnt come out til spring 2013.
No games besides Smash Bros. WiiU has been announced for WiiU outside of launch window games.
And the new 007 game will prob be announced for WiiU when we get the Activision WiiU lineup announcement
Why the hell would they be so stingy/anal/stupid to gimp their CPU? Heat? Costs? I wish they weren't so worried about those things. They seems to be a bit OCD on it all.
Relying on the GPU is mental, especially if it means you think you should gimp your CPU out of any reasonable standard of acceptability which is what it seems they have done. They could have the best of both worlds for a little more power/heat or cost.
The benefit of launching in Oct would be to get games like AC3 and COD:BO2 out the same day as the other versions, we dont want all late ports. Also it gives them a chance to spread out the release of games leading up until Black Friday, instead of having a bunch of games coming out at one time and hurting sales. Or a lot of games will come out after Black Friday and missing the biggest shopping day of the year.
Oct 21st would be the best date to launch WiiU
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Hmm, I'm not entirely sure about that. I figure if they go with 2D Metroid they'll stick to something like the 3DS, where the budget can be kept in check and where I personally feel they'll try and make the franchise home. I think if we see a console Metroid they'll try and keep it 3D. Maybe third person.
The main concern I have for Nintendo going into the HD generation is risk versus reward. Nintendo is absolutely for investing on risky projects and giving franchises plenty of love, but they're not completely insane nor sitting on an unlimited budget.
Unfortunately a lot of their big blockbuster franchises, like Zelda and Metroid, will cost significantly more to make with HD standards than their Wii/GCN counterparts did. Even as the same style of game, they budget will explode.
If the Wii U isn't as successful as they hope, they'll be concerned about taking too large of a risk. And if risky software isn't successful, they'll be even less inclined to throw money at certain games. After all, if a hypothetical Metroid Prime 4 costs 4x-5x the investment of Metroid Prime 3, sales of the Metroid series are struggling, and the Wii U market penetration is poorer than projected, then I cant see hypothetical Metroid Prime 4 ever getting made.
I don't think Nintendo ever speaks of budgets, so we'll never know. I do believe they said Skyward Sword was their most expensive game to make, and looking at the credits I'm not surprised. Skyward Sword, as much as I love it, and as big of a game as it is, reeks of a poor development pipeline though, and I wouldn't be surprised if a tighter, more efficient and guided team could have made the exact same game in less time and for less money.
Heat is the usual reason to downclock hardware. Heat can damage components and decrease stability, which is the absolute last thing you want in a closed hardware environment. Nintendo is extremely cautious about product reliability, and I could totally see them pulling back on hardware components if they felt there was any risk of heat and stability issues popping up.
Relying on the GPU is a bit crazy, but kinda understandable in a crazy logic given the compute support. But these are all maybes and speculation, a lot of which unfounded. We simply don't know what the hardware can and cannot do, nor how efficient it is. Maybe the CPU is terrible, maybe it's manageable. Maybe they are indeed relying on the GPU compute functions, but maybe the compute functions are poor or the GPU too is poorly clocked. Or maybe the GPU is great. Or maybe nothing is wrong. We just don't know.
Personally, I fully believe there is some kind of architectural 'issue' developers are facing with the Wii U, relative to the 360/PS3. If they wasn't, we/I wouldn't have reports of teams facing issues. This doesn't mean the issues are fixable or without solutions, but it does mean issues exist, issues that likely will not be evident in both Sony and Microsoft's next generation machines (in terms of porting current gen titles).
Yeah I didn't think we would get Wii U news, Gamescom is are best bet this month other than Nintendo Direct to get Wii U news.
Fourth Storm
Member
Not confusing them. The way I understand it is this: Flipper has access to both the texture cache and frame buffer at 6.2 ns. It would be hard for an off-die cache to achieve this. If you give me examples, I'd be interested to read. Further, the texture cache in particular is 64kb wide, reducing the necessary amount of page switches and thereby reducing the total latency. Looking at the setup for this supposed RV770 spin off, AMD don't seem to give particulars of their cache, but it's unlikely there's access to 64 out of around 128 total L1 texture cache at once.
So now we're looking at fattening the total SRAM cache, which seems expensive in both cost and transistors. With the CPU, it looks as if Nintendo are shying away from SRAM, going so far as to not use it for CPU L2. So perhaps they replaced the GPU L2 with eDRAM, which is something we haven't heard, as opposed to the unified 32 MB framebuffer. Or they've just struck the L2 cache from the GPU, maybe fattened the L1 caches to 32 kb SRAM each, and gotten the eDRAM on there, Power7 style. There is that talk of a "blank substrate" SoC going on with the 360 CPU so I don' think it's outside the realm of possibility IBM and AMD worked that closely together. I don't see much point in the small CPU being able to access the eDRAM, when its own L2 is quite nice and the latency would probably be just as bad as to main memory. It seems it would be much more useful for gpu physics and gpu compute functions in addition to framebuffer. And there's definitely more to use than as just a framebuffer. In Xenos, only the ROPS had high bandwidth access to the eDRAM, as they were on the same chip. Increasing the bus between chips to make it much more beneficial than main memory would probably start getting pricey.
Yeah but to me if it's a choice between making my console easier to develop for and less of gimped, and making my case a tad larger or the fan a bit bigger, I know what I'd choose. This gen especially they need to ensure that third party support all the way. Oh well.
I know right?, Nintendo has been so secretive it's now annoying.
Pretty much. What honestly broke me was going back and playing Rayman Origins with two other friends. I had done multiplayer once before, but the amount of fun I had was just stupid. I forgot how amazing that game is. Rayman alone is getting me to buy a WiiU. Throw in Pikmin, Mario, and ZombiU, and I'm definitely sold. Plus the best versions of Darksiders and Assassins Creed should be on it... so yeah. Me wants. NOW. At least give me some news so I know how much I need to save. :/
Apophis2036
Banned
The bigger Sony and MS Triple A games like Gears and Uncharted (2 year dev cycle) cost around $20 million to develop, will prob at least double next gen.
Because of Nintendo s graphical style tho i would guess even the best looking Wii U games wouldnt cost more than $25 million.
I had no idea the Metroid Prime series sold so bad, surprised they let them make two sequels if it was that bad.
I think Retro would be great developers for a decent budgeted Starfox game.
Whats everyone s thoughts on sequels, altho Nintendo are accused of 'milking' certain franchises i would be more than happy with three installments of each big IP per console, one every two years is fine imo and would be great for their income unless of course they want to release one per gen and make their money on DLC but with an 8GB flash drive i dont think they are interested in large DLC in the long term.
Yeah, I don't remember Nintendo being this secretive about the Wii, it's like I just want to go to Iwata and be like "TELL ME EVERYTHING!!!" lol.
- Status